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RE: [Digital BW] Sepia (was Foam Core: The Good Stuff is Acid Free)

RE: [Digital BW] Sepia (was Foam Core: The Good Stuff is Acid Free)

2002-07-12 by Paul Roark

Steadman,

You wrote, in part:


>...and keep working on that sepia stuff please.

The inkset is pretty much done.  I will evaluate my 2 toner formulas (one of
which is non-warming) after a 600 hour fade (warming) test this evening.

I want to be sure that prints made with the neutral end of the inkset's
range do not warm.  The base gray is the non-warming FS-N, but the toner was
not non-warming.  The question is whether there is enough of the sepia toner
in the neutral shadows to matter.  At 300 hours the answer was that it was
irrelevant -- no significant warming (including shadow warming) with either
formula.

I do not care if the sepia end of the print range warms a little.  Compared
to the warmth that is there already, it's a minor change.

I think ImagePrint 4 will support this inkset in most current printers.

In addition, there are current MIS VM curves that work quite well with most
printers.  (Some of Tyler's curves work better than mine.)

I have 3000 curves for the vm-s.  I also just bought a PressReady and will
see if I can control it for the 3000, which Colorbyte has not indicated it
will support.  So, hopefully, there will also be a RIP cheaply available (I
paid $77 on EBay today for PressReady) for the 3000.  (I will, of course,
make public any files that are needed to control the PressReady -- if I
figure out how it works.)

I published a Piezo/FS formula for sepia inkset that appears to work well
also.

I find I'm using the vm-s inkset in the 3000 and it does all that I want --
excellent neutral (true neutral and non-warming) and light sepia (for the
"southwestern" types of prints).

I find the full-on sepia appropriate only for the old-photo reproductions,
but note that the highest-end gallery I saw on a tour of Taos and Santa Fe
galleries featured really dark sepia-like platinum prints for mucho $.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Sepia (was Foam Core: The Good Stuff is Acid Free)

2002-07-12 by Steadman Uhlich

Hello Paul,

Thanks again for the details.  That helps.

In my position I am looking for a "turnkey" solution as much as possible.

I have been reading (almost) all of the threads over the last few months and
whenever I see something related to sepia (especially your posts) I read
with great interest as I want to have a simple sepia solution on the
desktop.

At this point, I am not interested in mixing different inks (hey...that can
be fun...or a headache).  I also would want a simple software solution too
(either using the Piezo I already own, Epson, or something affordable).  No
would I want to have to spend much time with sw issues.  My understanding
was that the Imageprint sw was pretty pricey.

As for the "look" I am looking for...would like the range from a light sepia
to a darker "platinum" look.  Your Southwestern example is probably right in
line with what I have in mind.  By the "old photo" I imagine you mean a much
lighter tone with a more "yellow" rather than "brown" look.

Also, I will need to purchase a printer to use with this stuff.  I was
waiting to see if  Epson came out with a good item this year. As it appears
the 1280 (at about $500) is the "standard" now...I suppose I would go that
route.

If I dedicate a printer to "sepia" production/inks...I don't really need to
produce a "neutral" (cooler toned) print from this dedicated printer...so I
wonder if the MIS-VM-S is indeed what I need??  Again, I don't forsee
wanting to produce both grey and sepia from the same printer.  I would just
continue to use my 1160 with PiezoTones or PiezoBW for the grey images.

So...given those facts, would you recommend:

1.  1280
2.  Tyler's Curves
3.  MIS VM-Sepia  (or wait for the final sepia ink you are perfecting?)

Regards again,
Steadman
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
  Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 1:54 PM
  To: DigitalB&WPrint
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Sepia (was Foam Core: The Good Stuff is Acid
Free)


  Steadman,

  You wrote, in part:


  >...and keep working on that sepia stuff please.

  The inkset is pretty much done.  I will evaluate my 2 toner formulas (one
of
  which is non-warming) after a 600 hour fade (warming) test this evening.

  I want to be sure that prints made with the neutral end of the inkset's
  range do not warm.  The base gray is the non-warming FS-N, but the toner
was
  not non-warming.  The question is whether there is enough of the sepia
toner
  in the neutral shadows to matter.  At 300 hours the answer was that it was
  irrelevant -- no significant warming (including shadow warming) with
either
  formula.

  I do not care if the sepia end of the print range warms a little.
Compared
  to the warmth that is there already, it's a minor change.

  I think ImagePrint 4 will support this inkset in most current printers.

  In addition, there are current MIS VM curves that work quite well with
most
  printers.  (Some of Tyler's curves work better than mine.)

  I have 3000 curves for the vm-s.  I also just bought a PressReady and will
  see if I can control it for the 3000, which Colorbyte has not indicated it
  will support.  So, hopefully, there will also be a RIP cheaply available
(I
  paid $77 on EBay today for PressReady) for the 3000.  (I will, of course,
  make public any files that are needed to control the PressReady -- if I
  figure out how it works.)

  I published a Piezo/FS formula for sepia inkset that appears to work well
  also.

  I find I'm using the vm-s inkset in the 3000 and it does all that I
want --
  excellent neutral (true neutral and non-warming) and light sepia (for the
  "southwestern" types of prints).

  I find the full-on sepia appropriate only for the old-photo reproductions,
  but note that the highest-end gallery I saw on a tour of Taos and Santa Fe
  galleries featured really dark sepia-like platinum prints for mucho $.

  Paul
  http://www.PaulRoark.com




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Sepia (was Foam Core: The Good Stuff is Acid Free)

2002-07-12 by Paul Roark

Steadman,

You wrote:

>... I am looking for a "turnkey" solution as much as possible.

I've published the FS/Piezo formula.  If MIS won't produce it, maybe Cone
will.  When I publish a formula on the list, it is for the taking -- free.

>... I want to have a simple sepia solution on the desktop.

I use the vm-s inkset in a 3000 with a PC.  I'm very satisfied with the
results -- easy and flexible.

>As for the "look" I am looking for...would like the range
>from a light sepia to a darker "platinum" look.

I think the VM-S inkset would do.

>... By the "old photo" I imagine you mean a much
>lighter tone with a more "yellow" rather than "brown" look.

Actually not.  I concluded that the light yellow was the faded albumen tone,
not the original brownish tone.  I used the French tome on the "History of
Photography" (by the photo curator of the Louvre), real samples, and some
other secondary sources.

>Also, I will need to purchase a printer to use with this stuff.
>...it appears the 1280 (at about $500) is the "standard" now...

A few recent postings on the forum suggest that people are finding existing
curves that work well with the 1280 & vm-s.  I do not have a 1280, so I
can't say.  I have not made a special set of curve for that printer and the
vm-s inkset.

>...I don't really need to produce a "neutral" ...so I
>wonder if the MIS-VM-S is indeed what I need??

It would give you the option of lighter or darker sepia than a monotone
inkset.

>So...given those facts, would you recommend:

>1.  1280

It is the standard now for 13" paper.

>2.  Tyler's Curves

Check the postings.  I think people are using a mix of Tyler's and my
curves.

>3.  MIS VM-Sepia  (or wait for the final sepia
>ink you are perfecting?)

No need to wait.  The prints look virtually identical.  If the non-warming
toner is of any benefit, it would only be for the neutral end anyway.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Sepia (was Foam Core: The Good Stuff is Acid Free)

2002-07-13 by Steadman Uhlich

Paul,

Thanks a bunch for the clear answers.

Appreciatively,

Steadman
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
  Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 4:21 PM
  To: DigitalB&WPrint
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Sepia (was Foam Core: The Good Stuff is Acid
Free)


  Steadman,

  You wrote:

  >... I am looking for a "turnkey" solution as much as possible.

  I've published the FS/Piezo formula.  If MIS won't produce it, maybe Cone
  will.  When I publish a formula on the list, it is for the taking -- free.

  >... I want to have a simple sepia solution on the desktop.

  I use the vm-s inkset in a 3000 with a PC.  I'm very satisfied with the
  results -- easy and flexible.

  >As for the "look" I am looking for...would like the range
  >from a light sepia to a darker "platinum" look.

  I think the VM-S inkset would do.

  >... By the "old photo" I imagine you mean a much
  >lighter tone with a more "yellow" rather than "brown" look.

  Actually not.  I concluded that the light yellow was the faded albumen
tone,
  not the original brownish tone.  I used the French tome on the "History of
  Photography" (by the photo curator of the Louvre), real samples, and some
  other secondary sources.

  >Also, I will need to purchase a printer to use with this stuff.
  >...it appears the 1280 (at about $500) is the "standard" now...

  A few recent postings on the forum suggest that people are finding
existing
  curves that work well with the 1280 & vm-s.  I do not have a 1280, so I
  can't say.  I have not made a special set of curve for that printer and
the
  vm-s inkset.

  >...I don't really need to produce a "neutral" ...so I
  >wonder if the MIS-VM-S is indeed what I need??

  It would give you the option of lighter or darker sepia than a monotone
  inkset.

  >So...given those facts, would you recommend:

  >1.  1280

  It is the standard now for 13" paper.

  >2.  Tyler's Curves

  Check the postings.  I think people are using a mix of Tyler's and my
  curves.

  >3.  MIS VM-Sepia  (or wait for the final sepia
  >ink you are perfecting?)

  No need to wait.  The prints look virtually identical.  If the non-warming
  toner is of any benefit, it would only be for the neutral end anyway.

  Paul
  http://www.PaulRoark.com



        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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