Digital BW, The Print

> 
> On 7/13/02 8:24 AM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote:
> 
> > Nope, I absolutely hate  the rc look. Tacky Tacky Tacky!!! Cheap!
> > Commercial! Ugh!
> >
> > (In my humble opinion, of course.).
> >
> > Brightcube says Eclipse satine is good with dyes or pigments.
> 
> "good"...now there's an interesting word.  Is that like 3 Wilhelm years or
> 30 or 300...or isn't there any difference...or does it depend on the gamut
> of the ink set?  I know the folks at Brightcube and they definitely don't
> see dye inks on their paper as any type of archival option...now the inks do
> look nice...as they do on Museo.  Great for birthday cards or a temporary
> commercial portfolio.
> 
> Robert
> 
> > Martin Wesley wrote:
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
> >> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 8:53 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Photo Rag longevity versus EHM with Epson dye
> >> inks?
> >>
> >>> Martin, which epson papers would be good for the 1280 dye inks (26 year
> >>> life)? Heavyweight matte isn't nearly heavy enough, and it is too ivory
> >>> colored to be useful.
> >>>
> >> Jerry,
> >>
> >> I really don't know on that one. I would probably stick to Epson's
> >> recommendations since it is their ink. I have been using Epson's ColorLife
> >> paper for the family snapshots but I don't know if you would like the RC
> >> pearl type finish. Maybe someone on the Archical Color group has some
> >> suggestions.
> >>
> >> Martin Wesley
> >>
> >> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Martin Wesley wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Mitch,
> >>>>
> >>>> For the dye inks I would stick to the Epson papers. It has long been
> >>>> understood that the chemicals used to buffer archival papers and mat
> >> board
> >>>> would damage color dye materials such as dye transfer prints or textiles
> >>>> dyed with vegetable dyes.
> >>>>
> >>>> The Hahnemuhle papers appear to be fully buffered to a pH of 8.0+ and
> >> this
> >>>> buffering, while extremely good for the life of the paper, may be
> >> harmful to
> >>>> the life of the color dye image.
> >>>>
> >>>> While the carbon pigment inks in theory are immune to the effects of the
> >>>> buffering agents, I wonder if that is the reason prints on H. papers
> >> warm
> >>>> more than on EAM.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is also the nature and pH of the coatings used on inkjet papers
> >> and
> >>>> how they interact with the inks. All of this is proprietary information
> >> and
> >>>> we really don't know what will happen over the long haul.
> >>>>
> >>>> Martin Wesley
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Mitch Alland" <malland@...>
> >>>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:32 PM
> >>>> Subject: [Digital BW] Photo Rag longevity versus EHM with Epson dye
> >> inks?
> >>>>
> >>>>> [Although this question concerns color inks, I am posting it here as I
> >> had
> >>>> no response on the Epson printer color forum.]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the Sep 28, 2001 "newsletter" on www.inkjetart.com there was a
> >> report
> >>>> based on Epson information that the life of Epson 1280 (dye) inks on
> >> Epson
> >>>> Heavyweight Matte was much longer (25 years) than on Epson Archival
> >> Matte
> >>>> (10 years), as the latter works better with pigment inks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does anyone know what is the situation with Epson 1280 dye inks with
> >>>> Hahnemuehle Photo Rag: is the lonegevity shorter than with Epson
> >> Heavyweight
> >>>> Matte, along the lines of  Epson Archival Matte?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Mitch/Bangkok
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> >> and
> >>>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>>>>
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> >> keep
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> >> various
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> 
> Jerry,
> 
> this isn't quite on your topic of Epson dye inks, but I can tell you
> that I am stoked by the results of using Hahnem\ufffdhle Photo Rag 308 and
> the MIS Archival pigment inks with the substitution of extended
> yellow in their standard color inkset.  Blacks are wonderful, colors
> match the screen...This combination I use for my fine art printing.
> Your right, it is expensive, however I expect that it is easily in
> excess of 100 years under glass on the wall with no direct sunlight.
> The EHM is fine for the everyday snapshots to friends printing...and
> much more cost effective...and I might add should last as long as
> conventional color prints.
> 
> I got the curves for the ink/paper combo by using my EyeOne Spectro.
> 
> Bill
> --
> 
> b i l l  a g e e  s t u d i o
> c a p i s t r a n o  b e a c h  c a l i f o r n i a
> 
> billagee@...
> http://www.redsilver.com
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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> 
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> 
> Jerry,
> 
> Completely forgot about this one:
> 
> http://www.brightcube.com/products/paper/details/gel.php
> 
> Gelatin art might be worth a look...it is a rag 300gm paper made for dyes.
> I believe that John Nollendorfs suggested that he got good results with his
> dyes...but I doubt it will make it 25 years...nonetheless the prints will
> look fantastic.  It used to be called Xtreme Gamut Gelatin.  I have some and
> will fire it up with 1280 dyes when I get a chance.  It has pretty heavy
> texture, though.
> 
> Robert
> 
> PS This is rather off topic for the BW list...you might want to ask this
> question on the archival color list...just be aware that there are many
> people on that list who do not view the 1280 inks in any way archival.
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@...
> 
> 310-397-2704
> 
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066
> 
> On 7/14/02 2:21 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:
> 
> > On 7/13/02 2:40 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote:
> >
> >> What do you think of the Photo rag for epson 1280 color inks?  I'm
> >> looking for a really nice paper that will last at least as long as the
> >> 26 years claimed by epson for their 1280 color inkset. I have run fade
> >> tests with this ink, south window, etc, and it doesn't fade at all to
> >> the eye, even after 2 months in the sun. So it should really be good for
> >> 26 years under glass, I would think. Anyway, at the low prices I sell
> >> for, I'm not going to worry about it, as I don't sell a lot of color.
> >> The Recommended Epson heavyweight matte is not nearly heavy enough for me.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge no other matte paper has lasted 25 Wihelm years
> > with the 1270/1280 inks...Heavyweight Matte is your only option for a
> > "certified" longevity in this range.  I would just print some color targets
> > on a couple of different papers and put them in window with a heavy weight
> > matte print.  I think that Archival Matte gets 10 years with the dyes...so
> > you could use that as another calibration point for your fade test.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> > them short.
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> > "flames."
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> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
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> 
> 
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> 
> Jerry, I use a 1280 and and have had better success with MIS color dyes for printing relatively neutral b&w prints than I had useing th epson oem carts for b&w.  Of course I use a NMC cis.
> Sometimes there is still a slight cast to the b&w print, but these inks look much better than the epson dyes.
> I'm thinking about a 2200 or 7600 as soon as I see some b&w output.  I'm seriously considering the 7600 to save money in the long term, by having the ink come in at a cheaper price in the larger carts.  My thought is after a year or two of using one to two sets of carts every week, the 7600 may pay for itself in savings.
> David Aschkenas
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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On 7/14/02 7:14 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote:

> If its an rc type paper, I would really not like it. Nothing looks worse
> than that stuff.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Robert Morrison wrote:
>> 
>> Jerry,
>> 
>> Completely forgot about this one:
>> 
>> http://www.brightcube.com/products/paper/details/gel.php
>> 
>> Gelatin art might be worth a look...it is a rag 300gm paper made for dyes.
>> I believe that John Nollendorfs suggested that he got good results with his
>> dyes...but I doubt it will make it 25 years...nonetheless the prints will
>> look fantastic.  It used to be called Xtreme Gamut Gelatin.  I have some and
>> will fire it up with 1280 dyes when I get a chance.  It has pretty heavy
>> texture, though.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> PS This is rather off topic for the BW list...you might want to ask this
>> question on the archival color list...just be aware that there are many
>> people on that list who do not view the 1280 inks in any way archival.
>> ----------------------
>> Robert Morrison
>> rmorrison@...
>> 
>> 310-397-2704
>> 
>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>> 
>> On 7/14/02 2:21 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 7/13/02 2:40 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What do you think of the Photo rag for epson 1280 color inks?  I'm
>>>> looking for a really nice paper that will last at least as long as the
>>>> 26 years claimed by epson for their 1280 color inkset. I have run fade
>>>> tests with this ink, south window, etc, and it doesn't fade at all to
>>>> the eye, even after 2 months in the sun. So it should really be good for
>>>> 26 years under glass, I would think. Anyway, at the low prices I sell
>>>> for, I'm not going to worry about it, as I don't sell a lot of color.
>>>> The Recommended Epson heavyweight matte is not nearly heavy enough for me.
>>> 
>>> To the best of my knowledge no other matte paper has lasted 25 Wihelm years
>>> with the 1270/1280 inks...Heavyweight Matte is your only option for a
>>> "certified" longevity in this range.  I would just print some color targets
>>> on a couple of different papers and put them in window with a heavy weight
>>> matte print.  I think that Archival Matte gets 10 years with the dyes...so
>>> you could use that as another calibration point for your fade test.
>>> 
>>> Robert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>>> other
>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>>> them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> "flames."
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>> "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>