Digital BW, The Print

Cleavis,

Have you tried selecting all the very light areas in your image,
feathering about 20-40 pixels or so, (depending on the resolution of
your file), and copying and pasting it to a new layer?  Then select
multiply for that layer. It will give you much more highlight detail.
Then, depending on how it looks, you can reduce the amount of detail by
lowering the opacity of that layer until it looks just right.

You can do the same thing for shadows. Only use the screen mode instead
of the multiply mode.

These two things alone can greatly expand the highlight/shadow detail in
your images. 

In your case, select the areas you want to add contrast in, make the new
copy layer of them, and use the screen mode. This may give you too much
shadow detail. You'll have to reduce the opacity. You can also use a
curve to increase the contrast in this layer.

Jerry

lyonscox wrote:

> 
> I was wondering what methods people are employing when trying to
> adjust the contrast of a narrow tone range, say 5-20%?
> 
> To state it another way...if I were to make a traditional silver
> print and wanted to do this, I would be doing a dodge/burn in very
> specific areas (if using a variable contrast paper, yuck ;-) I would
> use a different filter from the main exposure) and afterwards do
> localized reducing (most of you call it bleaching).
> 
> I've found myself
> A - adjusting curves, generally and repeatedly in small increments.
> B - selecting areas, layer color fill (~25-75%B) set to burn, etc.
> C - using the intuitive dodge & burn tool
> 
> OThers?  Efficient?
> Thanks,
> 
> Cleavis
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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Jerry,

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of your comments to Austin but your
copying and pasting for detail just saved a picture for me. For that I must
thank you. Never thought about doing it before. I still don't think that
every photo has to be manipulated in PS to *make it better*. I hate to crop
primarily because I compose and shoot at the same time. Maybe it comes from
a jazz improvisational background. Once you throw the notes out you can't
take them back. For me anything and everything in the art field is
intuitive. The form follows substance and how you get there is very
personal. Goodbye. Don't want to ramble.

Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Methods of Selection Narrow ranges...?


> Cleavis,
>
> Have you tried selecting all the very light areas in your image,
> feathering about 20-40 pixels or so, (depending on the resolution of
> your file), and copying and pasting it to a new layer?  Then select
> multiply for that layer. It will give you much more highlight detail.
> Then, depending on how it looks, you can reduce the amount of detail by
> lowering the opacity of that layer until it looks just right.
>
> You can do the same thing for shadows. Only use the screen mode instead
> of the multiply mode.
>
> These two things alone can greatly expand the highlight/shadow detail in
> your images.
>
> In your case, select the areas you want to add contrast in, make the new
> copy layer of them, and use the screen mode. This may give you too much
> shadow detail. You'll have to reduce the opacity. You can also use a
> curve to increase the contrast in this layer.
>
> Jerry
>
> lyonscox wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering what methods people are employing when trying to
> > adjust the contrast of a narrow tone range, say 5-20%?
> >
> > To state it another way...if I were to make a traditional silver
> > print and wanted to do this, I would be doing a dodge/burn in very
> > specific areas (if using a variable contrast paper, yuck ;-) I would
> > use a different filter from the main exposure) and afterwards do
> > localized reducing (most of you call it bleaching).
> >
> > I've found myself
> > A - adjusting curves, generally and repeatedly in small increments.
> > B - selecting areas, layer color fill (~25-75%B) set to burn, etc.
> > C - using the intuitive dodge & burn tool
> >
> > OThers?  Efficient?
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Cleavis
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

jazz improvisational background. Once you throw the notes out you can't
take them back
 
My son is studying to be a recording engineer.  You'd be surprised what
happens to those notes after they're played.
 
Yeah, I know.  I'm a smart-a**.
 
Karl Wolz
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Barry, 

Not every picture has to be cropped. Not EVERY picture has to be tweaked
in photoshop. (Many photographers probably haven't even heard of
photoshop). But IF you can make an improvement, I'll do it. I'm MAKING a
picture versus TAKING a picture. It's all art, and I use photoshop as a
tool to better photographs.

Jerry



bgs wrote:

> 
> Jerry,
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with a lot of your comments to Austin but your
> copying and pasting for detail just saved a picture for me. For that I must
> thank you. Never thought about doing it before. I still don't think that
> every photo has to be manipulated in PS to *make it better*. I hate to crop
> primarily because I compose and shoot at the same time. Maybe it comes from
> a jazz improvisational background. Once you throw the notes out you can't
> take them back. For me anything and everything in the art field is
> intuitive. The form follows substance and how you get there is very
> personal. Goodbye. Don't want to ramble.
> 
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Methods of Selection Narrow ranges...?
> 
> > Cleavis,
> >
> > Have you tried selecting all the very light areas in your image,
> > feathering about 20-40 pixels or so, (depending on the resolution of
> > your file), and copying and pasting it to a new layer?  Then select
> > multiply for that layer. It will give you much more highlight detail.
> > Then, depending on how it looks, you can reduce the amount of detail by
> > lowering the opacity of that layer until it looks just right.
> >
> > You can do the same thing for shadows. Only use the screen mode instead
> > of the multiply mode.
> >
> > These two things alone can greatly expand the highlight/shadow detail in
> > your images.
> >
> > In your case, select the areas you want to add contrast in, make the new
> > copy layer of them, and use the screen mode. This may give you too much
> > shadow detail. You'll have to reduce the opacity. You can also use a
> > curve to increase the contrast in this layer.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > lyonscox wrote:
> > >
> > > I was wondering what methods people are employing when trying to
> > > adjust the contrast of a narrow tone range, say 5-20%?
> > >
> > > To state it another way...if I were to make a traditional silver
> > > print and wanted to do this, I would be doing a dodge/burn in very
> > > specific areas (if using a variable contrast paper, yuck ;-) I would
> > > use a different filter from the main exposure) and afterwards do
> > > localized reducing (most of you call it bleaching).
> > >
> > > I've found myself
> > > A - adjusting curves, generally and repeatedly in small increments.
> > > B - selecting areas, layer color fill (~25-75%B) set to burn, etc.
> > > C - using the intuitive dodge & burn tool
> > >
> > > OThers?  Efficient?
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Cleavis
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry,

No argument about that. As long as one knows the tool is just a means of
getting the message across. A new saxophone doesn't make a musician a better
creator. I never wanted to use autofocus until I realized my eyes were
getting older or a coupled meter in my older cameras until I couldn't read
the info on my old Weston. Giving away my age now.

Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Methods of Selection Narrow ranges...?


> Hi Barry,
>
> Not every picture has to be cropped. Not EVERY picture has to be tweaked
> in photoshop. (Many photographers probably haven't even heard of
> photoshop). But IF you can make an improvement, I'll do it. I'm MAKING a
> picture versus TAKING a picture. It's all art, and I use photoshop as a
> tool to better photographs.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> bgs wrote:
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > I don't necessarily agree with a lot of your comments to Austin but your
> > copying and pasting for detail just saved a picture for me. For that I
must
> > thank you. Never thought about doing it before. I still don't think that
> > every photo has to be manipulated in PS to *make it better*. I hate to
crop
> > primarily because I compose and shoot at the same time. Maybe it comes
from
> > a jazz improvisational background. Once you throw the notes out you
can't
> > take them back. For me anything and everything in the art field is
> > intuitive. The form follows substance and how you get there is very
> > personal. Goodbye. Don't want to ramble.
> >
> > Barry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Methods of Selection Narrow ranges...?
> >
> > > Cleavis,
> > >
> > > Have you tried selecting all the very light areas in your image,
> > > feathering about 20-40 pixels or so, (depending on the resolution of
> > > your file), and copying and pasting it to a new layer?  Then select
> > > multiply for that layer. It will give you much more highlight detail.
> > > Then, depending on how it looks, you can reduce the amount of detail
by
> > > lowering the opacity of that layer until it looks just right.
> > >
> > > You can do the same thing for shadows. Only use the screen mode
instead
> > > of the multiply mode.
> > >
> > > These two things alone can greatly expand the highlight/shadow detail
in
> > > your images.
> > >
> > > In your case, select the areas you want to add contrast in, make the
new
> > > copy layer of them, and use the screen mode. This may give you too
much
> > > shadow detail. You'll have to reduce the opacity. You can also use a
> > > curve to increase the contrast in this layer.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > lyonscox wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was wondering what methods people are employing when trying to
> > > > adjust the contrast of a narrow tone range, say 5-20%?
> > > >
> > > > To state it another way...if I were to make a traditional silver
> > > > print and wanted to do this, I would be doing a dodge/burn in very
> > > > specific areas (if using a variable contrast paper, yuck ;-) I would
> > > > use a different filter from the main exposure) and afterwards do
> > > > localized reducing (most of you call it bleaching).
> > > >
> > > > I've found myself
> > > > A - adjusting curves, generally and repeatedly in small increments.
> > > > B - selecting areas, layer color fill (~25-75%B) set to burn, etc.
> > > > C - using the intuitive dodge & burn tool
> > > >
> > > > OThers?  Efficient?
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Cleavis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same
> > page.
> > > >
> > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to
> > keep them short.
> > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > header.
> > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same
> > page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter
ms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Karl,

Not a smart-**. Just remember that most of us played in front of live
audiences. Most people have never heard live music without electronic crap.
Try to make a fine photo with  a crowd watching. Might separate the men or
women from the boys or girls. Might turn you into an alcoholic. It's a
luxury to be able to make changes in private before the commitment is made.
Nobody thinks of the 10,000 hours of practice before the performance. I hope
your son respects the performers ----if they're good!

Frankly, I've learned a lot from this group. PS has been good to me because
of all of you. Whether I agree with certain concepts or not is not the
point. I am completely self-taught except for this group. I keep learning
all the time and I am on Social Security but incorrigible. I hate to see
people unsubscribe. Cowards. Bye again. 1280---2200 what to do??? Use an
1160 cfs now. Great. Help me....please.

Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Wolz" <wolzphoto@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Methods of Selection Narrow ranges...?


>
> jazz improvisational background. Once you throw the notes out you can't
> take them back
>
> My son is studying to be a recording engineer.  You'd be surprised what
> happens to those notes after they're played.
>
> Yeah, I know.  I'm a smart-a**.
>
> Karl Wolz
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>