Digital BW, The Print

Antonis/Martin/Group:

I just spent some time looking through the FILES section of this 
board. Some very good resources there. But unless I've missed 
it, I'd love to see one database of paper qualities, dmax ratings, 
pros and cons, etc. Have I overlooked it?

If not, I think we could create something that would be very useful 
for many people. Could we actually get close to determining the 
"best" paper for various applications? I have no idea what this 
would look like; one big database, or several small ones, listed 
by inksets (quads, 6color dyes, Variable quad, etc). Or by final 
applications (proofing, fine art output, etc).

I tried to build something like this months ago on the Epson9000 
list, but it fell flat pretty quickly. But this list seems to have a bit 
more energy, and a bit more people willing to invest the time to 
figure this out.

I've been following Paul Roark's comments about EAM. And now 
I wonder about Legion Matte. And now about this new 
Hannemuhle paper.

These would be some of the things I'd like to see in a database:

* Paper Type (watercolor, glossy)
* Most compatible inks
* Paper surface (smooth, rough)
* Brightness/whiteness
* DMax numbers
* Any optical brighteners?
* Acidity rating
* Paper weight
* Sizes available
* Street prices
* Available sources

It would be great if this could be set up where each member 
could add his/her own comments to it. Maybe a PDF format with 
Annotations? Or a separate database for each paper, and then 
people just add new entries?

------

I'll help out however I can. Personally, I'm looking for a smooth, 
very heavy, watercolor paper to print warmtone B/W photographs 
on. Something with rich blacks. Right now, I'm printing with 
6-color dyes, but I'd be willing to switch to variable quads if there 
was good evidence to switch. And something with relatively long 
expected life, but I know that's a whole other conversation.

-Mark Tucker
Advertising Photographer
http://marktucker.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Tucker" <mark@m...> wrote:
> Antonis/Martin/Group:
> 
> I just spent some time looking through the FILES section of this 
> board. Some very good resources there. But unless I've missed 
> it, I'd love to see one database of paper qualities, dmax ratings, 
> pros and cons, etc. Have I overlooked it?


Mark,

there is "Inkjet data081601.sit " under Paper data in our Files. I made it 
originally (April 01) for my own use trying to sort out what papers worked for 
piezo. There are two shortcomings: It is in FileMaker Pro 5 format (that not 
everyone has) and it is limited to piezo dmax readings. On the plus side, it 
covers a lot of papers with a lot of characteristics listed - or at least allowed to 
be listed, i.e. the fields are there to be filled out.
If you (or anyone here) has FileMaker Pro, by all means, please download for 
a spin and let me know what you think. One of the "features" is that the info 
from the various vendors is first downloaded as is from their site and saved 
wholesale in a field. So even if not all database fields are filled out, or even if 
there are errors in price fields, you can always refer to what the actual info on 
the site was at the time it was captured.


> If not, I think we could create something that would be very useful 
> for many people. Could we actually get close to determining the 
> "best" paper for various applications? 

Yes, aiming for the "best" or "most popular" certainly cuts to the chase and 
avoids a lot of busy work trying to list thousands out there.



I have no idea what this 
> would look like; one big database, or several small ones, listed 
> by inksets (quads, 6color dyes, Variable quad, etc). Or by final 
> applications (proofing, fine art output, etc).

Both good ideas that could easily be integrated to the existing database. 


> These would be some of the things I'd like to see in a database:
> 
> * Paper Type (watercolor, glossy)
> * Most compatible inks
> * Paper surface (smooth, rough)
> * Brightness/whiteness
> * DMax numbers
> * Any optical brighteners?
> * Acidity rating
> * Paper weight
> * Sizes available
> * Street prices
> * Available sources

All of these are exisitng fields in my database. Some are hard to quantify or 
condense in a single word (smooth, rough), but they are there.




> 
> It would be great if this could be set up where each member 
> could add his/her own comments to it. Maybe a PDF format with 
> Annotations? Or a separate database for each paper, and then 
> people just add new entries?

Check out Database>Paper Choices on our group site. I set this up, precisely 
so that members could put in their paper preferences. Unfortunately, it hasn't 
worked (beyond a couple of people) because there needs to be a constant 
reminder to go fill this out. If you have a better suggestion, I am all ears.



>Personally, I'm looking for a smooth, 
> very heavy, watercolor paper to print warmtone B/W photographs 
> on. Something with rich blacks. Right now, I'm printing with 
> 6-color dyes, but I'd be willing to switch to variable quads if there 
> was good evidence to switch. And something with relatively long 
> expected life, but I know that's a whole other conversation.

Sure. We call it the Holy Grail, but it's OK to look for it. Don't tell me you' d also 
like it to have the sheen of double weight fiber glossy air dried????
I am only semi-kidding. I am looking for the same as are countless others. I bet 
your 6 color dyes get better black and can deal with glossy where piezo can't.
And as far as expected life...  I wouldn't want to sign any papers for now.

And lastly: I have been overwhelmed by posts and unable to enter all the 
comments and subtleties of usage coming from end-users of papers into my 
database. But I have another database monster that I am deliberating whether 
to make public: about 500 messages with the most important commentary and 
info from the piezo and this list since about 5/3/2001. Lots of serious opinions 
on papers. Not enough time for me to process and put in the paper database. I 
will probably catch up this fall. For the moment, I remain a piezoBW user with 
Hahnemuhle papers desperately waiting for the new one to arrive. By then , 
who knows, MIS VT looks like a serious contender as do other new papers....

Many thanks for your interest and initiative.

Antonis

could someone turn your database into a PDF file?
trish
ternahan@...

From: "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 04:21:55 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Creating Paper/Ink database?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Tucker" <mark@m...> wrote:
> Antonis/Martin/Group:
> 
> I just spent some time looking through the FILES section of this
> board. Some very good resources there. But unless I've missed
> it, I'd love to see one database of paper qualities, dmax ratings,
> pros and cons, etc. Have I overlooked it?


Mark,

there is "Inkjet data081601.sit " under Paper data in our Files. I made it
originally (April 01) for my own use trying to sort out what papers worked
for 
piezo. There are two shortcomings: It is in FileMaker Pro 5 format (that not
everyone has) and it is limited to piezo dmax readings. On the plus side, it
covers a lot of papers with a lot of characteristics listed - or at least
allowed to 
be listed, i.e. the fields are there to be filled out.
If you (or anyone here) has FileMaker Pro, by all means, please download for
a spin and let me know what you think. One of the "features" is that the
info 
from the various vendors is first downloaded as is from their site and saved
wholesale in a field. So even if not all database fields are filled out, or
even if 
there are errors in price fields, you can always refer to what the actual
info on 
the site was at the time it was captured.


> If not, I think we could create something that would be very useful
> for many people. Could we actually get close to determining the
> "best" paper for various applications?

Yes, aiming for the "best" or "most popular" certainly cuts to the chase and
avoids a lot of busy work trying to list thousands out there.



I have no idea what this
> would look like; one big database, or several small ones, listed
> by inksets (quads, 6color dyes, Variable quad, etc). Or by final
> applications (proofing, fine art output, etc).

Both good ideas that could easily be integrated to the existing database.


> These would be some of the things I'd like to see in a database:
> 
> * Paper Type (watercolor, glossy)
> * Most compatible inks
> * Paper surface (smooth, rough)
> * Brightness/whiteness
> * DMax numbers
> * Any optical brighteners?
> * Acidity rating
> * Paper weight
> * Sizes available
> * Street prices
> * Available sources

All of these are exisitng fields in my database. Some are hard to quantify
or 
condense in a single word (smooth, rough), but they are there.




> 
> It would be great if this could be set up where each member
> could add his/her own comments to it. Maybe a PDF format with
> Annotations? Or a separate database for each paper, and then
> people just add new entries?

Check out Database>Paper Choices on our group site. I set this up, precisely
so that members could put in their paper preferences. Unfortunately, it
hasn't 
worked (beyond a couple of people) because there needs to be a constant
reminder to go fill this out. If you have a better suggestion, I am all
ears.



>Personally, I'm looking for a smooth,
> very heavy, watercolor paper to print warmtone B/W photographs
> on. Something with rich blacks. Right now, I'm printing with
> 6-color dyes, but I'd be willing to switch to variable quads if there
> was good evidence to switch. And something with relatively long
> expected life, but I know that's a whole other conversation.

Sure. We call it the Holy Grail, but it's OK to look for it. Don't tell me
you' d also 
like it to have the sheen of double weight fiber glossy air dried????
I am only semi-kidding. I am looking for the same as are countless others. I
bet 
your 6 color dyes get better black and can deal with glossy where piezo
can't.
And as far as expected life...  I wouldn't want to sign any papers for now.

And lastly: I have been overwhelmed by posts and unable to enter all the
comments and subtleties of usage coming from end-users of papers into my
database. But I have another database monster that I am deliberating whether
to make public: about 500 messages with the most important commentary and
info from the piezo and this list since about 5/3/2001. Lots of serious
opinions 
on papers. Not enough time for me to process and put in the paper database.
I 
will probably catch up this fall. For the moment, I remain a piezoBW user
with 
Hahnemuhle papers desperately waiting for the new one to arrive. By then ,
who knows, MIS VT looks like a serious contender as do other new papers....

Many thanks for your interest and initiative.

Antonis



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint




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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is there any translation app that might work on a mac?
trish
ternahan@...

From: "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 04:46:13 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Creating Paper/Ink database?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ternahan <ternahan@s...> wrote:
> could someone turn your database into a PDF file?
> trish
> ternahan@g...

This has been discussed - and in fact done for earlier versions. The problem
is that it is unwieldy. There are too many records (near 200) and about 100
fields for each! Besides, you loose the functionality of some scripts that
are 
built in to the database. For example, a simple drop-down menu command
can bring up all the Hahnemuhle papers with all their different names,
sources and prices. Another, may bring up all the papers by any one of a
number of distributors. Etc. If you have an Acrobat Distiller and are
willing to 
do this, I can upload an eps version and let you play. You have now been
warned! <BG>

Before others ask: yes, I can export in other formats, and yes, you can
import 
into Excel and Access and what-have-you, but it just isn't as functional and
it 
is a lot of work on your part to keep up with the updates and re-importing.
I 
would be happy to upload any format requested, if you feel otherwise.

And, no, I don't work for FileMaker or what used to be Claris. And, no, for
the 
moment, I am not willing to buy the developers version and create a stand
alone app, not so much because of cost as because of time, or severe lack
thereof!!!.

Antonis


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ternahan <ternahan@s...> wrote:
> could someone turn your database into a PDF file?
> trish
> ternahan@g...

This has been discussed - and in fact done for earlier versions. The problem 
is that it is unwieldy. There are too many records (near 200) and about 100 
fields for each! Besides, you loose the functionality of some scripts that are 
built in to the database. For example, a simple drop-down menu command 
can bring up all the Hahnemuhle papers with all their different names, 
sources and prices. Another, may bring up all the papers by any one of a 
number of distributors. Etc. If you have an Acrobat Distiller and are willing to 
do this, I can upload an eps version and let you play. You have now been 
warned! <BG>

Before others ask: yes, I can export in other formats, and yes, you can import 
into Excel and Access and what-have-you, but it just isn't as functional and it 
is a lot of work on your part to keep up with the updates and re-importing. I 
would be happy to upload any format requested, if you feel otherwise.

And, no, I don't work for FileMaker or what used to be Claris. And, no, for the 
moment, I am not willing to buy the developers version and create a stand 
alone app, not so much because of cost as because of time, or severe lack 
thereof!!!.

Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
> Mark,
> 
> there is "Inkjet data081601.sit " under Paper data in our Files. 


Do you have a way to Export that FileMaker file out as simple text, 
and then re-upload it? That might make it easier for others to 
import, into SimpleText or appleworks or Panorama, or even 
Excel.

I think it this thing could become somewhat interactive we could 
all work on it as a group, collectively. This could be a worthwhile 
contribution to other users, (and to ourselves as well).

(I downloaded the FileMaker file that you mention, but couldn't 
get it open at all without having Filemaker, of course).

-MT

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
> This has been discussed - and in fact done for earlier 
versions. The problem 
> is that it is unwieldy. There are too many records (near 200) 
and about 100 
> fields for each!


Unbelievable... This is quite an undertaking.

Respectfully, it might be interesting though to have a much 
smaller, interactive version in somewhat of a universal format. 
Just for curiosity to see what we could accomplish as a group.

It could be as simple as: "Which are the best papers for printing 
highly-detailed photographs on glossy paper?" And the answer 
could be the top three papers; not us commiting to one. But even 
to be able to immediately narrow the choices down to three 
papers, right off the bat, could be very helpful to someone. With 
all the choices now, it can get overwhelming.

It could even be YahooGroups-based, just using the Tables 
function within this website. That way, it wouldn't require 
downloading. But even then, they offer a printer-friendly 
conversion that is very easy to download.

I'm not at all questioning your database. But boy, you bit off a big 
chunk with those kinds of features. I'm just curious what we 
could do as a group.

-Mark

on 9/2/01 12:21 AM, Antonis Ricos wrote:

> For the moment, I remain a piezoBW user with
> Hahnemuhle papers desperately waiting for the new one to arrive.


Unfortunately, the latest will be rather pricey (as Bernd previously noted).

This just in from digital art supplies.

Todd

***********

On Tuesday, we will receive our first shipment of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
This is the single sided version, the duo won¹t be in for about 4-6 more
weeks.  We will be sending out samples in the next week or so, be sure to
let us know if you want one & aren¹t on the list.  Email
karen@digitalartsupplies.com
<http://us.f105.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=Karen@digitalartsupplies.com> .
Pricing is on the site for all sizes & quantities.  Keep in mind that if you
want rolls (yes 13 & 17² also) quantities will be VERY limited for the next
90 days so order now.  The link for Photo Rag is
http://www.digitalartsupplies.com/photragcomso.html

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Tucker" <mark@m...> wrote:

> Do you have a way to Export that FileMaker file out as simple text, 
> and then re-upload it? That might make it easier for others to 
> import, into SimpleText or appleworks or Panorama, or even 
> Excel.

There are several formats (all of which have been tried in the past). if you 
have a specific one you prefer, let me know. Choices include:
comma-delimited, tab-delimited, SYLK, DBF, SYLK, DIF, WKS,BASIC,html 
table etc. As well as .eps (print to file).
> 
> I think it this thing could become somewhat interactive we could 
> all work on it as a group, collectively. This could be a worthwhile 
> contribution to other users, (and to ourselves as well).

I know Excel is a popular way to do these things and I started the database in 
it but found it impossible to manage after a certain size. FileMaker is both 
powerful and easy. So the problem of communal input - which I have been 
advocating for months now - is simply a matter of logistics. Either I have to be 
the central clearing house and receive submissions in a standard Excel 
template for  incorporation into the database. or we can make an Excel sheet 
that we keep in the Files and people can download it, add to it and upload it 
with a new date in the file. If you have a suggestion that is less convoluted, by 
all means lets try it.
> 
> (I downloaded the FileMaker file that you mention, but couldn't 
> get it open at all without having Filemaker, of course).


Some folks have tried the demo version (free from filemaker). With it you can 
print the whole thing but can only see 50 records on screen. You may want to 
play with it and get a sense of what's inside.

Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Tucker" <mark@m...> wrote:

> It could even be YahooGroups-based, just using the Tables 
> function within this website. That way, it wouldn't require 
> downloading. But even then, they offer a printer-friendly 
> conversion that is very easy to download.

Have you looked at - and participated - at the one in existence (as I mentioned 
earlier)? You should try it, even just to see how it works. Remember , we are 
limited to ten columns by Yahoo.

Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Have you looked at - and participated - at the one in existence 
(as I mentioned 
> earlier)?

I found it late last night. Not bad. But maybe limited as you imply, 
by the ten columns.

I hereby make this my task: to come up with a solution to let the 
USERS add to this. I feel there's much more power and incentive 
if the user can be in power, rather than having to add more work 
to your list.

I'm clueless as how to begin, but I'll keep you posted. For 
starters, please email me offlist something exported that I/most 
anyone could open. Just plain text maybe, either tab or comma 
deliniated.

mark@...

I'll also explore Yahoo avenues.

Well, being the thinker of thoughts (many impractical as this one 
probably is...) I jump to the most logical way to build what is 
basically a REAL database.  If someone had the experience and a 
website that we could use, then by using open-source code like MySQL 
would be the way to go.  It would be sitting on a site where anyone 
could update it through entry fields, and no one would have to 
maintain it after the initial input.  It would be (almost) 
infinitely expandable...There could be a spot for personnal opinion 
input (ie Amazon style) about each paper/ink etc.  All we need is 
someone to do it. Hah!  There's the catch!

Anyway my CS brain was working, and really this would be the way to 
go.

Thanks,
Cathy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Tucker" <mark@m...> 
wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
> <antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> > Have you looked at - and participated - at the one in existence 
> (as I mentioned 
> > earlier)?
> 
> I found it late last night. Not bad. But maybe limited as you imply, 
> by the ten columns.
> 
> I hereby make this my task: to come up with a solution to let the 
> USERS add to this. I feel there's much more power and incentive 
> if the user can be in power, rather than having to add more work 
> to your list.
> 
> I'm clueless as how to begin, but I'll keep you posted. For 
> starters, please email me offlist something exported that I/most 
> anyone could open. Just plain text maybe, either tab or comma 
> deliniated.
> 
> mark@m...
> 
> I'll also explore Yahoo avenues.

As Antonis already knows, I've offered space on my site for the 
database.  My web publisher supports SQL and cgi programmed objects, 
the only trick is the get the DB written, or exported, into SQL.  I've 
already converted it into 4th Dimension, but don't have, nor want to 
buy, the SQL module to enable it to run on my site as it is pretty 
pricey.

Any other ideas, or persons who would like to do the programming?

Phil
http://philbard.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Cathy Van Berg" <
vanbergc@y...> wrote:

> Well, being the thinker of thoughts (many impractical as this one 
> probably is...) I jump to the most logical way to build what is 
> basically a REAL database.  If someone had the experience and a 
> website that we could use, then by using open-source code like MySQL 
> would be the way to go.  It would be sitting on a site where anyone 
> could update it through entry fields, and no one would have to 
> maintain it after the initial input.  It would be (almost) 
> infinitely expandable...There could be a spot for personnal opinion 
> input (ie Amazon style) about each paper/ink etc.  All we need is 
> someone to do it. Hah!  There's the catch!
> 
> Anyway my CS brain was working, and really this would be the way to 
> go.
> 
> Thanks,
> Cathy
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Tucker" <mark@m...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
> > <antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> > > Have you looked at - and participated - at the one in existence 
> > (as I mentioned 
> > > earlier)?
> > 
> > I found it late last night. Not bad. But maybe limited as you imply, 
> > by the ten columns.
> > 
> > I hereby make this my task: to come up with a solution to let the 
> > USERS add to this. I feel there's much more power and incentive 
> > if the user can be in power, rather than having to add more work 
> > to your list.
> > 
> > I'm clueless as how to begin, but I'll keep you posted. For 
> > starters, please email me offlist something exported that I/most 
> > anyone could open. Just plain text maybe, either tab or comma 
> > deliniated.
> > 
> > mark@m...
> > 
> > I'll also explore Yahoo avenues.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Tucker" <mark@m...> wrote:

 please email me offlist something exported that I/most 
> anyone could open. Just plain text maybe, either tab or comma 
> deliniated.


Mark,

I have uploaded here a tab delimited version. You and anyone else interested 
can play with conversion options.
BTW note what happens in the Yahoo database I set up when you put a very 
long string for URL, or many lines of comments. Not a pretty picture.
So, I don't know what the easiest cheapest way to go is - tables in Word? 
Excel?
 I agree that a common place for users to add their info and comments is a 
very good way to go. Besides I can't promise to make updating my paper 
database a full time job....


Antonis

To the best of my knowledge from working with some other Yahoo! mailing 
lists, there doesn't appear to be a way for the general membership to 
<modify> files in the files section.  You can have permissions to download, 
delete, and upload files, but I don't think you can modify them.  It could 
create quite a mess if multiple people would simultaneously upload modified 
versions of the same file.  I would think that one person would have to 
volunteer to do the maintenance and that would be quite a job.

At 11:22 PM 9/1/2001 +0000, Mark Tucker wrote:
>Antonis/Martin/Group:
>
>I just spent some time looking through the FILES section of this
>board. Some very good resources there. But unless I've missed
>it, I'd love to see one database of paper qualities, dmax ratings,
>pros and cons, etc. Have I overlooked it?

<SNIP>

>It would be great if this could be set up where each member
>could add his/her own comments to it. Maybe a PDF format with
>Annotations? Or a separate database for each paper, and then
>people just add new entries?
>
>------
><MORE SNIP>


****************
James E. Martz
Milan, OH
jemartz@...
*****************

James,

these are settings that moderators and list owners can change. For the 
moment we have allowed members to create databases but not modify files.


Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "James E. Martz" <jemartz@e...> 
wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge from working with some other Yahoo! mailing 
> lists, there doesn't appear to be a way for the general membership to 
> <modify> files in the files section.  You can have permissions to download, 
> delete, and upload files, but I don't think you can modify them.  It could 
> create quite a mess if multiple people would simultaneously upload 
modified 
> versions of the same file.  I would think that one person would have to 
> volunteer to do the maintenance and that would be quite a job.

Learn something new every day!  I have worked with files, but had not 
gotten into the database sections yet.  I see we can create up to 10 
databases that have up to 10 columns (fields) and up to 1000 records, so 
Mark would have to drop one field or combine a couple of them - and one of 
the fields needs to have the name of the paper.  I suspect several of the 
items of his wish list could be put together into one field.

I wonder if 1000 records would be enough.  With the number of papers, inks, 
printers, etc. around, it could fill up pretty fast.  Seems like a good 
idea to me.


At 08:46 AM 9/3/2001 +0000, Antonis wrote:
>James,
>
>these are settings that moderators and list owners can change. For the
>moment we have allowed members to create databases but not modify files.
>
>
>Antonis


****************
James E. Martz
Milan, OH
jemartz@...
*****************

Everyone,

I put up four new databases in the DATABASE section of this 
site. They're designed to start with the inkset that a person has 
installed, ie. quadtones, six-color, piezo, etc. You can click on 
that particular database and add New Records; if you've had 
success with a certain paper, with any one of these different 
inksets, just fill out the simple form and upload it.

This will hopefully assist people in sorting out which papers go 
best with their existing inkset. Or, if you're considering switching 
inksets, it could point you in the direction of the best papers for 
those new inks.

Also, if there are suggestions on a better approach to this, or for 
alterations in the current system, just let me know. We can also 
add other databases as needed in the future, up to ten total.

-Mark Tucker, mark@...

Is there any difference in print quality between the lighter and 
heavier versions of Photo Rag, or is just a matter of paper thickness.


Thanks,

Evan Wolarsky

I see no difference...just weight/thickness.

Steadman

  -----Original Message-----
  From: wolarsky [mailto:wolarsky@...]
  Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 2:06 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Photo Rag


  Is there any difference in print quality between the lighter and
  heavier versions of Photo Rag, or is just a matter of paper thickness.


  Thanks,

  Evan Wolarsky


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The heavier paper can be window mounted without having to use board. I just
silver foil to protect it from the frame. The 188 definitely needs mounting.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Steadman Uhlich [mailto:steadmanuhlich@...]
  Sent: 12 July 2002 20:11
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Photo Rag


  I see no difference...just weight/thickness.

  Steadman
    -----Original Message-----
    From: wolarsky [mailto:wolarsky@...]
    Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 2:06 PM
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [Digital BW] Photo Rag


    Is there any difference in print quality between the lighter and
    heavier versions of Photo Rag, or is just a matter of paper thickness.


    Thanks,

    Evan Wolarsky


          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


    Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
  other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

    Please follow these basic guidelines:
    - Include your full name with your message.
    - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
    - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
  them short.
    - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
    - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
  "flames."
    - Complete your Yahoo profile.
    - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
  resources on the homepage.




    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anybody have a source to buy Photo Rag in Los Angeles, 
without mail ordering.  An old fashioned store that you can walk 
in, pick out a box that's not dented, pay cash and leave.

Appreciate the help!

-Michael

Freestyle photographic in Hollywood should have it...you may want to call
first.

Robert

On 7/26/02 10:45 AM, "mfp90021" <mfp90021@...> wrote:

> Does anybody have a source to buy Photo Rag in Los Angeles,
> without mail ordering.  An old fashioned store that you can walk
> in, pick out a box that's not dented, pay cash and leave.
> 
> Appreciate the help!
> 
> -Michael
> 
>

They had it in stock a few weeks ago the last time I was there...

Joel
jdkurtz@...
joel_kurtz@paramount..com

> > Does anybody have a source to buy Photo Rag in Los Angeles,
> > without mail ordering.  An old fashioned store that you can walk
> > in, pick out a box that's not dented, pay cash and leave.
> > 
> > Appreciate the help!
> > 
> > -Michael

on 7/26/2002 10:59 AM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:45:47 -0000
> From: "mfp90021" <mfp90021@...>
> Subject: Photo Rag
> 
> Does anybody have a source to buy Photo Rag in Los Angeles,
> without mail ordering.  An old fashioned store that you can walk
> in, pick out a box that's not dented, pay cash and leave.
> 
> Appreciate the help!
> 
> -Michael

I think Samy's camera has it, but it might be re-branded with a different
name.  And it will be expensive.  Give them a call and see.
 
-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr