Digital BW, The Print

Jerry,

I followed your steps for cleaning the print heads of my Epson 1280.  
The cartridges that I'd removed were about 20% full (color) and maybe 
40% full for black.  After the 4 head cleanings and running some 
purge print I went from getting a little bit of ink out to NONE at 
all.

My next step was to put in two of the new cartridges I just received 
yesterday from MIS (VM).  Of course, both the chips are bad because 
neither will work!!!! I'm extremely frustrated right now with MIS and 
its product.  Have to wait until Monday to call them, though!

What do you and everyone else advise?  Should I just bite the bullet 
and get the CIS system?  Then I don't have to deal with chips, 
right?  I'm so angry right now, I'm thinking of switching to Piezo so 
I don't have to do business with MIS anymore.

>[snip] What do you and everyone else advise?  Should I just bite the 
>bullet and get the CIS system?  Then I don't have to deal with 
>chips, right? [snip]

Actually, I'd keep the Epson carts, if you still have them, around, 
plugged with the very inexpensive rivets MIS sells, in case they help 
someday with cleaning. But with the Epson carts, I guess the chips 
are not a problem. I've only had a 900 and two 1160s, so I don't know 
from chips. And I knew so much about MediaStreet's Gen 4 ink set and 
MIS's VM Sepia-Neutral ink set from the lists, that I got a 
NoMoreCarts.com CIS for each of those ink sets without trying either 
ink set in carts.

In retrospect, I think that was reckless. If so, I was lucky. I would 
not, however, advise anyone to get a CIS until they were sure which 
ink set they wanted to use. And I would advise anyone who was sure 
and prints a lot, to get a CIS. But to make sure they get a real 
NoMoreCarts.com CIS, say from InkJetArt.com. That is, not a 
reverse-engineered, no-manufacturer-name knock-off cis, possibly from 
some place NoMoreCarts won't let sell the real CIS.

That is not a criticism of MIS's own CFS, which I think might be 
competitive but don't really know anything about. Isn't Jim Hayes 
using it?

I do have the impression that MIS tries to make good on any problems 
with their stuff. So I'd give them another chance to, possibly via a 
credit toward a CFS if that seems like a way around the bad-cart 
frustrations. I might even try giving them a call this weekend. I 
know they're sometimes in there beavering away and pick up even after 
hours.

Sam McCandless          samcc@...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "daintreeriver2002"
<workmantx@a...> wrote:
> Jerry,
> 
> I followed your steps for cleaning the print heads of my Epson 1280.  
> The cartridges that I'd removed were about 20% full (color) and maybe 
> 40% full for black.  After the 4 head cleanings and running some 
> purge print I went from getting a little bit of ink out to NONE at 
> all.
> 
> My next step was to put in two of the new cartridges I just received 
> yesterday from MIS (VM).  Of course, both the chips are bad because 
> neither will work!!!! I'm extremely frustrated right now with MIS and 
> its product.  Have to wait until Monday to call them, though!
> 
> What do you and everyone else advise?  Should I just bite the bullet 
> and get the CIS system?  Then I don't have to deal with chips, 
> right?  I'm so angry right now, I'm thinking of switching to Piezo so 
> I don't have to do business with MIS anymore.

As a system, MIS has good results and great potential. Roark, et.al.,
are very solid in their knowledge and most helpful (though I assume
they are not getting checks from MIS and I hope they don't have stock
options). 

As a company, MIS gives every reason to leave their system for any
reasonable alternative. I have a worse experience than reported here
with a 1280 and defective cartridges. I called, and MIS said to rob
the chip off my Epson cartridge while they sent me a replacement CHIP
(not cartridge). Then they refused to send a cartridge to replace the
epson cartridge rendered unusable by using its chip. Said I could put
their chip on it "if it worked." MIS said "we are not responsible for
the bad chips. They are assembled and shrink wrapped in China, and we
could not unwrap and test everyone." So I said, "Well, then, could you
be responsible for the bad ones?" And the woman on the phone said, "We
ship them all, and we can't replace the bad ones with ones we know are
good because we don't know which ones are good." Now that is some way
to run a company. Whether or not you move to CIS, you can be sure that
a company that is this irresponsible to customers is going to cause
you trouble sooner or later. Next it will be, "Well, I know that your
ink is clogging because the formula is not consistent, but we can't
tell which inks are good and which are bad..."

Sell your stock and buy another ink system. Cone Piezo looks twice as
expensive up front and half as expensive in the long run if you count
all the time fixing the bad printers when you could be printing.

>As a system, MIS has good results and great potential. Roark, 
>et.al., are very solid in their knowledge and most helpful (though I 
>assume they are not getting checks from MIS and I hope they don't 
>have stock options).

"dmeriwether16" could do more than assume and hope if he or she had 
done his or her homework.


>As a company, MIS gives every reason to leave their system for any 
>reasonable alternative.

Not to me; I've gotten good products - their VM Sepia-Neutral inks in 
bottles and their cis/CFS rivets accessory - at great prices and with 
good service from them. I don't say great, but they seem to have a 
low-overhead operation, and I assume that contributes to the great 
prices.


>I have a worse experience than reported here with a 1280 and 
>defective cartridges. [snip]

I don't doubt it. But I also think anyone who is dissatisfied with a 
first-level customer-service response should ask to speak with the 
next person up about it. And it's not very far all the way to the top 
at MIS.


>Sell your stock and buy another ink system. Cone Piezo looks twice 
>as expensive up front and half as expensive in the long run if you 
>count all the time fixing the bad printers when you could be 
>printing. [ "dmeriwether16" <dmeriwether@...>]

Another homework deficit? Surely no one familiar with the PiezoColor 
or PiezoBW "greenies" disaster would have written this. Both IJM and 
MIS - and other providers - have had and still have their problems. 
Which we should, in the interests of competition if nothing else, try 
to help them survive.

Sam McCandless             samcc@...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Sam A. McCandless" 
<samcc@v...> wrote:

> 
> That is not a criticism of MIS's own CFS, which I think might be 
> competitive but don't really know anything about. Isn't Jim Hayes 
> using it?
> 
> I do have the impression that MIS tries to make good on any problems 
> with their stuff. So I'd give them another chance to, possibly via a 
> credit toward a CFS if that seems like a way around the bad-cart 
> frustrations. I might even try giving them a call this weekend. I 
> know they're sometimes in there beavering away and pick up even 
after 
> hours.


Yes, I am using it. My major complaint is that I wish they would 
rewrite the installation instructions to include how to install the 
carts with the PRINTER OFF AND UNPLUGGED. The woman that answers the 
phone doesn't get you very far. But somehow, perhaps because I did 
some testing for MIS, perhaps because I have a pleasant voice, I don't 
know, I can almost always get through to Bob Zeiss, and have had a few 
conversations with him about especially chips.

Back in May or June I was still using my own self-vacuum filled carts. 
Not a CIS/CFS- just plain own virgin carts I filled myself and stuck 
chips on. The visual appearance of the BACK of the chip changed, and 
about this time I started having red light problems with cart 
insertion. Even using the QB-7 chip resetter didn't help. I got 
through to Bob with an e-mail that was answered within 12 hours 
followed up by a long phone call. Bob agreed to replace the five "new 
look" chips I had just bought and tried to use.

 Then he explained how to install carts or CFS with the power off to 
printer as I have posted  yesterday in "Curing bad MIS chips". I have 
found this approach to be almost mandatory for me- I now almost always 
have problems unless the power is off. With the old looking chips or 
with Epson chips I could install with power ON. I really never 
resolved this issue with Bob as he claims that the new chips are the 
same as the old ones except for a slight visual difference. He thinks 
perhaps my electrical connector on the 1280 for the chips is bent 
slightly, but this looks okay visually to me.

BUT, Bob not only sent me five "new look" replacement chips, but he 
had had them installed on carts and inserted into an 1280 and tested 
by a real human, then removed and sent to me in a bag labelled  
"tested  on 1280 and found good". So in some cases MIS is able to go 
the extra mile, you see. I don't doubt that others have had opposite 
experiences but this is what happened to me with one phone call.

When I got my CFS, I tried installing it with the printer on and 
plugged in, which- yep, blew out the chips. Fortunately, I had my 
little cache of five chips, slightly used by now, and just stuck two 
on , used the QB-7 resetter (hard to do with the tubing connected), 
and tried again with POWER OFF AND UNPLUGGED. Went perfect. I've been 
using the CFS for about a month now with no problems. I removed the 
CFS carts once (power off) and put back in with no problems. Bob sent 
me two more replacement chips which I haven't opened yet- no need. He 
also replaced two tubing brackets I had ordered as spares which were 
misshapened.

All in all I think the nomorecarts CIS is much easier to install, 
having used two on 1160's. The CFS from MIS I found gets a little 
messy when I went to trim the tubing length, minor annoyance, and they 
should have a better way of clamping off the tubing (the blue clamp 
that comes with the CART vacuum refill kit, not the CFS kit, DOESN't 
work- it seeps air). The CIS chip is probably also much easier to deal 
with then the MIS chip, I don't know I haven't used it. The F-16 chip 
resetter from MIS is a little funky to use, but now I have the hang of 
it. The big plus for the CFS is the optional modified cart clamps they 
sell seperately which hold the carts down firmly- never have to worry 
about a cart riding up and unseating. The other superior thing about 
the CFS over the CIS is that the tubing clamps hold the tubing above 
the printer extremely well- the acriyllic arm that comes with the 
nomorecarts CIS on both of my 1160 units would seperate at the velcro 
from time to time and sag down.

I do have to remove the cover with the CFS. I replaced it with a 
fome-cor table to act as a dust shield. Now I can place a 13 x 19 box 
of paper on top of the printer<g>.

It boils down to: either system will work, the extra money for the CIS 
buys you less hassle except for the carts riding up which the MIS 
system addresses really well. And you won't have to worry about 
sagging tubing.
Jim H.

Thanks Jim.

I thought I remembered that you had changed to the CFS in the first 
place because it would make it easier for you to replace the carts, 
or carts and tubes, more frequently by way of preventive maintenance?

Did you make your own foam core table or find it somewhere?

Sam

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Sam A. McCandless" 
<samcc@v...> wrote:
> Thanks Jim.
> 
> I thought I remembered that you had changed to the CFS in the first 
> place because it would make it easier for you to replace the carts, 
> or carts and tubes, more frequently by way of preventive 
maintenance?

Exactly. If the CFS is much cheaper than the CIS, and if the parts can 
be bought seperately for the CFS, it becomes feasable to toss the 
cart/tubing part now and then. But I will add that there is slightly 
more pain in first installing the CFS than the CIS. Now that I know 
how to do it, it will be easier the second time, no doubt. To live 
with a cheaper unit that you can replace more often, you put up with a 
slightly less polished solution.

> 
> Did you make your own foam core table or find it somewhere?

I made it from a sheet of 1/2 inch that I cut to about roughly 18 inch 
x 24 inch. I used 1/4 inch fome-cor to make the  about 8 1/4 inch 
long legs- slitting each leg piece twice and folding to make a 
triangular leg which I hot melt glued to the 1/2 piece.
Jim H.
> 
> Sam