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EAM+Piezotones: Printer beware!

EAM+Piezotones: Printer beware!

2002-09-08 by antonisphoto

I have a series of large prints on EAM made with the new Warm-Tone 
Piezotones on a 7000 using ImagePrint 4.  They were printed 2 months ago, 
and since they were meant as proofs,  I clipped them up on the walls 
unframed. The room they have been hanging gets no direct sun but has 
plenty of daylight from a southern window.

I was gone for a few weeks and when I returned a few days ago I noticed to 
my great dismay that the black and near-black areas had turned brown. Since 
that is also a lighter value than the original black, these areas now appear 
"solarized" or "bronzed out". IOW, the brown appears within a clear contour 
from the surrounding image which is not affected.  

I am guessing these are the areas where the black ink kicks in. So, I have 
many questions and theories, but no answers. Maybe we can compare notes?

- Is this happening only on Epson Archival Matte (and the recently renamed 
version)? Any other papers? Does it happen behind glass?

- Is this what Paul Roark predicted about PT black - except this happened in  
(a short) real time and real world  conditions rather than a fader? Pretty scary.

- If the above is a paper-wide symptom, InkjetMall needs to recall the black PT 
ink (which is common to all sets) and refund or replace with a known stable 
ink such as MIS. 

- Since InkjetMall no longer supports their inks with profiles and software, we 
need to alert Colorbyte and R9 to the need for strange new combinations of 
inks such as PT grays with MIS FS black or MIS DD. I realize this is already 
an old idea on this list, but I thought it applied to cases that need "extreme" 
archival stability. I didn't think the Piezotones wouldn't even last 2 months!! 
And to think they were originally hyped up as pure pigment! 

Any thoughts?


Antonis

Re: EAM+Piezotones: Buyers and collectors beware !!!!

2002-09-08 by lawrencetrek

Why aren't you posting this message on the piezography3000 discussion 
group?

Your results are worrisome.  I wonder if any collectors of piezotone prints are 
noticing their images degrade before their eyes.  Posting this message on the 
other forum could help determine whether this is being noted by other 
PiezoTone users and on other "archival" paper.

Re: [Digital BW] EAM+Piezotones: Printer beware!

2002-09-22 by Robert Morrison

I'm confirming Antonis's result.  I have had exactly the same result now
with the Selenium Piezotones.  I have a large print on EAM that was printed
one month ago.  For the last 5 days it was in a room that receives
intermittent strong day light...probably about 2 hours a day.  After 5 days
it shows the bad crossover warming/fading that Antonis describes below.
Prints made at the same time that were stored in the dark do not show this.
This experience eliminates the Piezotone black for me.

Robert

in a room thOn 9/8/02 9:25 AM, "antonisphoto" <antonisphoto@...>
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I have a series of large prints on EAM made with the new Warm-Tone
> Piezotones on a 7000 using ImagePrint 4.  They were printed 2 months ago,
> and since they were meant as proofs,  I clipped them up on the walls
> unframed. The room they have been hanging gets no direct sun but has
> plenty of daylight from a southern window.
> 
> I was gone for a few weeks and when I returned a few days ago I noticed to
> my great dismay that the black and near-black areas had turned brown. Since
> that is also a lighter value than the original black, these areas now appear
> "solarized" or "bronzed out". IOW, the brown appears within a clear contour
> from the surrounding image which is not affected.
> 
> I am guessing these are the areas where the black ink kicks in. So, I have
> many questions and theories, but no answers. Maybe we can compare notes?
> 
> - Is this happening only on Epson Archival Matte (and the recently renamed
> version)? Any other papers? Does it happen behind glass?
> 
> - Is this what Paul Roark predicted about PT black - except this happened in
> (a short) real time and real world  conditions rather than a fader? Pretty
> scary.
> 
> - If the above is a paper-wide symptom, InkjetMall needs to recall the black
> PT 
> ink (which is common to all sets) and refund or replace with a known stable
> ink such as MIS. 
> 
> - Since InkjetMall no longer supports their inks with profiles and software,
> we 
> need to alert Colorbyte and R9 to the need for strange new combinations of
> inks such as PT grays with MIS FS black or MIS DD. I realize this is already
> an old idea on this list, but I thought it applied to cases that need
> "extreme" 
> archival stability. I didn't think the Piezotones wouldn't even last 2
> months!! 
> And to think they were originally hyped up as pure pigment!
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> Antonis 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] EAM+Piezotones: Printer beware!

2002-09-22 by Antonis Ricos

Robert,

do you happen to have any other paper similarly printed and exposed to 
daylight? We need to see if the same happens on other papers - though, if it 
happens this fast on EAM, why would anyone want to use the PT black.

Anyone else? .....


Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Robert Morrison <rmorrison@p...> 
wrote:
> I'm confirming Antonis's result.  I have had exactly the same result now
> with the Selenium Piezotones.  I have a large print on EAM that was printed
> one month ago.  For the last 5 days it was in a room that receives
> intermittent strong day light...probably about 2 hours a day.  After 5 days
> it shows the bad crossover warming/fading that Antonis describes below.
> Prints made at the same time that were stored in the dark do not show this.
> This experience eliminates the Piezotone black for me.
> 
> Robert
> 
> in a room thOn 9/8/02 9:25 AM, "antonisphoto" <antonisphoto@y...>
> wrote:
> 
> > I have a series of large prints on EAM made with the new Warm-Tone
> > Piezotones on a 7000 using ImagePrint 4.  They were printed 2 months 
ago,
> > and since they were meant as proofs,  I clipped them up on the walls
> > unframed. The room they have been hanging gets no direct sun but has
> > plenty of daylight from a southern window.
> > 
> > I was gone for a few weeks and when I returned a few days ago I noticed 
to
> > my great dismay that the black and near-black areas had turned brown. 
Since
> > that is also a lighter value than the original black, these areas now appear
> > "solarized" or "bronzed out". IOW, the brown appears within a clear 
contour
> > from the surrounding image which is not affected.
> > 
> > I am guessing these are the areas where the black ink kicks in. So, I have
> > many questions and theories, but no answers. Maybe we can compare 
notes?
> > 
> > - Is this happening only on Epson Archival Matte (and the recently 
renamed
> > version)? Any other papers? Does it happen behind glass?
> > 
> > - Is this what Paul Roark predicted about PT black - except this happened 
in
> > (a short) real time and real world  conditions rather than a fader? Pretty
> > scary.
> > 
> > - If the above is a paper-wide symptom, InkjetMall needs to recall the black
> > PT 
> > ink (which is common to all sets) and refund or replace with a known 
stable
> > ink such as MIS. 
> > 
> > - Since InkjetMall no longer supports their inks with profiles and software,
> > we 
> > need to alert Colorbyte and R9 to the need for strange new combinations 
of
> > inks such as PT grays with MIS FS black or MIS DD. I realize this is 
already
> > an old idea on this list, but I thought it applied to cases that need
> > "extreme" 
> > archival stability. I didn't think the Piezotones wouldn't even last 2
> > months!! 
> > And to think they were originally hyped up as pure pigment!
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> > 
> > 
> > Antonis 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> >

Re: [Digital BW] EAM+Piezotones: Printer beware!

2002-09-22 by Robert Morrison

Not yet, but I will put a Museo sheet printed at the same time in a similar
location and we'll see what happens.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 9/22/02 2:52 AM, "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> do you happen to have any other paper similarly printed and exposed to
> daylight? We need to see if the same happens on other papers - though, if it
> happens this fast on EAM, why would anyone want to use the PT black.
> 
> Anyone else? .....
> 
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Robert Morrison <rmorrison@p...>
> wrote:
>> I'm confirming Antonis's result.  I have had exactly the same result now
>> with the Selenium Piezotones.  I have a large print on EAM that was printed
>> one month ago.  For the last 5 days it was in a room that receives
>> intermittent strong day light...probably about 2 hours a day.  After 5 days
>> it shows the bad crossover warming/fading that Antonis describes below.
>> Prints made at the same time that were stored in the dark do not show this.
>> This experience eliminates the Piezotone black for me.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> in a room thOn 9/8/02 9:25 AM, "antonisphoto" <antonisphoto@y...>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have a series of large prints on EAM made with the new Warm-Tone
>>> Piezotones on a 7000 using ImagePrint 4.  They were printed 2 months
> ago,
>>> and since they were meant as proofs,  I clipped them up on the walls
>>> unframed. The room they have been hanging gets no direct sun but has
>>> plenty of daylight from a southern window.
>>> 
>>> I was gone for a few weeks and when I returned a few days ago I noticed
> to
>>> my great dismay that the black and near-black areas had turned brown.
> Since
>>> that is also a lighter value than the original black, these areas now appear
>>> "solarized" or "bronzed out". IOW, the brown appears within a clear
> contour
>>> from the surrounding image which is not affected.
>>> 
>>> I am guessing these are the areas where the black ink kicks in. So, I have
>>> many questions and theories, but no answers. Maybe we can compare
> notes?
>>> 
>>> - Is this happening only on Epson Archival Matte (and the recently
> renamed
>>> version)? Any other papers? Does it happen behind glass?
>>> 
>>> - Is this what Paul Roark predicted about PT black - except this happened
> in
>>> (a short) real time and real world  conditions rather than a fader? Pretty
>>> scary.
>>> 
>>> - If the above is a paper-wide symptom, InkjetMall needs to recall the black
>>> PT 
>>> ink (which is common to all sets) and refund or replace with a known
> stable
>>> ink such as MIS.
>>> 
>>> - Since InkjetMall no longer supports their inks with profiles and software,
>>> we 
>>> need to alert Colorbyte and R9 to the need for strange new combinations
> of
>>> inks such as PT grays with MIS FS black or MIS DD. I realize this is
> already
>>> an old idea on this list, but I thought it applied to cases that need
>>> "extreme" 
>>> archival stability. I didn't think the Piezotones wouldn't even last 2
>>> months!! 
>>> And to think they were originally hyped up as pure pigment!
>>> 
>>> Any thoughts?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Antonis 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and other
>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same
>>> page.
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>>> them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

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