Digital BW, The Print

After stumbling around photography groups and finding a whole heap of 
trash, it was refreshing to find a group ( this one) that shows an 
impressive depth and knowledge in the inkjet field, making myself, a 
photographer with 20 years experience in the traditional field, feel 
like a babe in the woods . It is with hope that I tentitivley ask if 
there is an inkjet out there that can handle a light commercial load 
of printing that has sufficient fine detail (lack of dots, artifacts 
etc) to make prints ranging from 8"x10" up to 24" wide with good 
longevity and reasonable speed(no more than 20 minutes for a 20"x30") 
The problem with the larger plotter style inkjets (24+" wide), is 
that they look OK from 7 or 8 feet away, but if you had to print 
8x10's on the same printer and view at arms length, it breaks down. I 
print 20" wide on a Hope RA processor and am wanting to find an 
inkjet replacement soon. I am unwilling to take a step backward in 
quality however, on the other hand, I don't see the benefit of the 
1440plus dot quality.I do only  B&W sepia Portrait . I have seen 
results on textured paper with the smaller A-3 printers that made be 
go  watery eyed, but I would go broke waiting for them to print out. 
Who likes plastic paper, I  certainly don't. Can anyone help.

Regards Garry Sarre

You've come to the right place for advice.  Maybe you'll get a little 
too much...

Quad black printing is the hot item these days.  Beautiful tonal range 
and practically dotless.  Many inks out there, Piezo, MIS, Generations.  
Printerwise it's not going to come cheap if you want 24" wide.  You're 
probably looking at the Epson 7000 at $3500 and up.  It is one 
sensational machine, I've never seen better looking inkjet prints, and 
they will withstand examination under a loupe. You should try to get a 
look at some actual quadblack output from it...

Best,
Phil
http://philbard.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., gazzzzperth@y... wrote:

> After stumbling around photography groups and finding a whole heap of 
> trash, it was refreshing to find a group ( this one) that shows an 
> impressive depth and knowledge in the inkjet field, making myself, a 
> photographer with 20 years experience in the traditional field, feel 
> like a babe in the woods . It is with hope that I tentitivley ask if 
> there is an inkjet out there that can handle a light commercial load 
> of printing that has sufficient fine detail (lack of dots, artifacts 
> etc) to make prints ranging from 8"x10" up to 24" wide with good 
> longevity and reasonable speed(no more than 20 minutes for a 20"x30") 
> The problem with the larger plotter style inkjets (24+" wide), is 
> that they look OK from 7 or 8 feet away, but if you had to print 
> 8x10's on the same printer and view at arms length, it breaks down. I 
> print 20" wide on a Hope RA processor and am wanting to find an 
> inkjet replacement soon. I am unwilling to take a step backward in 
> quality however, on the other hand, I don't see the benefit of the 
> 1440plus dot quality.I do only  B&W sepia Portrait . I have seen 
> results on textured paper with the smaller A-3 printers that made be 
> go  watery eyed, but I would go broke waiting for them to print out. 
> Who likes plastic paper, I  certainly don't. Can anyone help.
> 
> Regards Garry Sarre

Garry,

Some questions, are you looking to print B&W using a color ink set or 
are you planning to dedicate a printer to B&W only? You mention a 
sepia portrait so I am guessing you want to go with a colot printer 
since there are no quad or grayscale ink sets the will give you a 
sepia tone.

Is archival life important or is it okay that these are short lived?

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., gazzzzperth@y... wrote:
> After stumbling around photography groups and finding a whole heap 
of 
> trash, it was refreshing to find a group ( this one) that shows an 
> impressive depth and knowledge in the inkjet field, making myself, 
a 
> photographer with 20 years experience in the traditional field, 
feel 
> like a babe in the woods . It is with hope that I tentitivley ask 
if 
> there is an inkjet out there that can handle a light commercial 
load 
> of printing that has sufficient fine detail (lack of dots, 
artifacts 
> etc) to make prints ranging from 8"x10" up to 24" wide with good 
> longevity and reasonable speed(no more than 20 minutes for a 
20"x30") 
> The problem with the larger plotter style inkjets (24+" wide), is 
> that they look OK from 7 or 8 feet away, but if you had to print 
> 8x10's on the same printer and view at arms length, it breaks down. 
I 
> print 20" wide on a Hope RA processor and am wanting to find an 
> inkjet replacement soon. I am unwilling to take a step backward in 
> quality however, on the other hand, I don't see the benefit of the 
> 1440plus dot quality.I do only  B&W sepia Portrait . I have seen 
> results on textured paper with the smaller A-3 printers that made 
be 
> go  watery eyed, but I would go broke waiting for them to print 
out. 

> Who likes plastic paper, I  certainly don't. Can anyone help.
> 
> Regards Garry Sarre

Hello Gary,

thanks for visiting here and for the kind words for this group. While you have 
already gotten pretty solid advice, I thought I'd give you some... homework to 
do <g>: Go to the files section of our group homepage and look around the 
resources there. Also, our Bookmarks have pretty much everything you need 
to jump-start your research. Our Database section, continuously updated by 
members, will give you an idea of the better papers to use.

Two suggestions - as short cuts: 
-Concorde Rag with PiezoBW inks on an Epson 7000 will get you very close 
to the very warm tone you seem to like.
-The MIS VT inks on the same printer may give you the option to fine tune the 
ink color. It's not something I have personally tried, but worth researching. 
Unlike Piezo inks, using MIS VT doesn't involve the expense of the 
custom-RIP software and PC required to run them. The inks are also cheaper. 
In return you have to fiddle with curves and workflows which may or may not 
be your cup of tea (piezo is practically a turnkey solution). Which one is for 
you, can only be your decision.

Welcome to the moving target gallery....

Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., gazzzzperth@y... wrote:

> After stumbling around photography groups and finding a whole heap of 
> trash, it was refreshing to find a group ( this one) that shows an 
> impressive depth and knowledge in the inkjet field, making myself, a 
> photographer with 20 years experience in the traditional field, feel 
> like a babe in the woods .

Thanks for responding Martin

I currently use traditional wet processing (colour) and I want to 
achieve same or better archival life ie. 20+ years before noticable 
change. These are salable prints, so they definately have to last. I 
use a sepia filtration on the enlarger settings and it is a very 
strong yellow/magenta bias. It's part of the overall image. We use 
only gold leaf framing and all my 8x10's are supplied in gold boxes 
in acid free tissue.

I am a little reluctant to let go of this colour,however, as I said, 
my  work is 99% mono and a dedicated printer is to be expected. 
Equipment price is not a problem as I am full time photographer. 
Ongoing material costs have to be taken into account.

We are a little in the backwaters here and our dollar isn't worth 
much so I automatically double the prices of those bandied about in 
this forum.

I am intrigued by this Epson 7000, it is getting my hopes up as my 
HOPE 20" Processor is on the way out.

How does it fair with the smaller prints - I  dont go under 8x10. 
Could it honestly stand that sort of close srcutiny. Also how do the 
materials stand up to normal handling

Thanks again

Garry Sarre

www.sarre.com.au


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Garry,
> 
> Some questions, are you looking to print B&W using a color ink set 
or 

> are you planning to dedicate a printer to B&W only? You mention a 
> sepia portrait so I am guessing you want to go with a colot printer 
> since there are no quad or grayscale ink sets the will give you a 
> sepia tone.
> 
> Is archival life important or is it okay that these are short lived?
> 
> Martin

Garry,

If you want something as strong as a sepia tone you will have to stay 
with a color ink set. None of the quad ink sets will give you 
anything that extreme.

If you want to use a color ink set that is good for about 20+ years 
then you just might want the Epson inks with the new Epson Color Life 
paper which is advertised as 25-27 years before noticeable fade or 
the Archival or Heavy weight Matte if a matte finish is okay.

So you could just start with a 7000 and the Epson inks to do both 
your sepia tones and color prints. You could always move to one of 
the color pigment ink set later if you are not happy with the Epson 
inks.

I don't believe the 7000 has a problem handling standard paper sizes 
for small prints.

Ink jet prints are more fragile than regular photo prints. If they 
are not going into a window mat or frame, you might want to give them 
a spray with one of the protective sprays on the market to protect 
them from mechanical damage, give water resistance and increase UV 
protection giving a greater print life.

You might want to enter the quad ink area with a smaller investment 
than a 7000 to see how you like it. An 1160 with either the PiezoBW 
ink and software or the MIS VM with Paul Roark's curves would get you 
started.

Martin Wesley




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Garry Sarre" 
<gazzzzperth@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for responding Martin
> 
> I currently use traditional wet processing (colour) and I want to 
> achieve same or better archival life ie. 20+ years before noticable 
> change. These are salable prints, so they definately have to last. 
I 
> use a sepia filtration on the enlarger settings and it is a very 
> strong yellow/magenta bias. It's part of the overall image. We use 
> only gold leaf framing and all my 8x10's are supplied in gold boxes 
> in acid free tissue.
> 
> I am a little reluctant to let go of this colour,however, as I 
said, 
> my  work is 99% mono and a dedicated printer is to be expected. 
> Equipment price is not a problem as I am full time photographer. 
> Ongoing material costs have to be taken into account.
> 
> We are a little in the backwaters here and our dollar isn't worth 
> much so I automatically double the prices of those bandied about in 
> this forum.
> 
> I am intrigued by this Epson 7000, it is getting my hopes up as my 
> HOPE 20" Processor is on the way out.
> 
> How does it fair with the smaller prints - I  dont go under 8x10. 
> Could it honestly stand that sort of close srcutiny. Also how do 
the 
> materials stand up to normal handling
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Garry Sarre
> 
> www.sarre.com.au
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
> <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > Garry,
> > 
> > Some questions, are you looking to print B&W using a color ink 
set 
> or 
> > are you planning to dedicate a printer to B&W only? You mention a 
> > sepia portrait so I am guessing you want to go with a colot 
printer 
> > since there are no quad or grayscale ink sets the will give you a 
> > sepia tone.
> > 
> > Is archival life important or is it okay that these are short 
lived?
> > 
> > Martin