Digital BW, The Print

Hi 
First let me thank you all for your knowledge, and willingness to 
share it with so many. The time spend by Paul and others has saved my 
time and made my choices much more informed. Again, thank you.
     I am a 26 year old amateur landscape photographer who made the 
leap into the digital world about 2 years ago with a very limited 
budget, an Epson 750 and a Canon FS 2710 film scanner.
     For the past 6 years I've been using a Canon Ellan II 35mm and 
Velvia or Provia Film with good results, including gallery 
exhibitions. Due to the ease of color/BW transformation in Photoshop, 
I have discovered over the past 2 years, I prefer many of my images 
in BW. I received as a gift the Epson 880 printer and using all the 
information on the net, I have transformed it into a quad 
print,getting better and better results. I believe I got as far so I 
can on my own without asking for help.

So it is now, I turn to you for farther guidance.

     I am using MIS v inks on my Epson 880 with EAM and with Paul's 
1160 curves getting good results. But I think I can do better.
     
     a) If Paul's curves are printer/paper specific, how do I adjust 
them ? I scanned a 21 step gradient on my flatbed and set the white 
and black point in Photoshop. My values are off especially in 
highlights and shadows. Is this something I should now adjust with 
transfer curves ? Or do I touch Paul's curves ? Is scanning and 
setting white/black point the way to check the gradient in the first 
place ?  Is the relatively low dynamic range of my flatbed a 
consideration in this testing process ? Will Paul's curves work with 
all papers or should they be adjusted. Does anyone have such transfer 
curves done already ?

     b) I am getting a small amount of dots in highlights but I think 
they are related to the curve adjustments I need to do as discussed 
above.  

     c) If I use the 2880 dpi, Photo Paper setting with the fine art 
paper should I see better prints or just more ink on the page ?

     d) I don't think I see much difference while scanning velvia in 
color or grayscale. Is there a preferred method or is it all the same 
as long as it enters grayscale at some point and the prints in RGB 
using Paul's curves ? 

     e) Since I will be shooting more black and white, should I use 
B/W negatives film, or color print film or should I stick to my 
reversal Provia ? If you think one film type or particular brand 
scanes better, please let me know. 

     f) For split toning, I use two layrs adjusted with two different 
curves. I then cut out a feathered section of the top one. Is this 
the best way to do it ?

 So there you have it.Many questions. Please share your knowledge 
once again. Any and all comments are greatly, greatly appreciated. If 
I asked something already answered please forgive me as I made much 
effort looking up the archive and must have missed it or am trying to 
clearify particulars.  

Thank you to all in advance.

Norbert

> f) For split toning, I use two layrs adjusted with two different
> curves. I then cut out a feathered section of the top one. Is this
> the best way to do it ?

I like my tones to split, not along object lines, but a long luminosity
lines. In other words, rather than used tone to isolate one entire object
from another, I split to give shadows a different color from the rest, in
the same way selenium effects shadows more than midtones and highlights in a
silver print. I don't split tone a lot, but for this effect this is how I do
it.

Use your layer blending sliders. Stack your two different Roark's VT curves
on top of each other at the top of your Layers stack. Say you want your
shadows cool and the rest of your image neutral. Double click the Roark
Neutral curve layer, which opens the Layer Options dialog box. Use the lower
blending slider, and pull the right slider to (arbitrary number) 110. This
will have this curve only effect the image for the tones 0-110. Double click
the Roark Neutral layer, to open it's options dialog, and pull the left
point of the lower slider to 111. This will have this curve affect the image
from the tones 111-225. You now have a hue split along tonal lines. Cool
shadows thru lower mids (0-110), neutral mids and highlights (111-225).

Where you set that break point should vary image by image, depending on
image content, and tonal content. Don't option click your sliders to feather
the transition, or you'll cause your curves to overlap, and befuddle each
other.

If I got my sliders backwards forgive me, but you get the idea.

Todd

Norbert,

Welcome to the group! 

I see Paul and Todd have tackled most of your questions let me see 
what I can add.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., robkay100@y... wrote:
> Hi 
> First let me thank you all for your knowledge, and willingness to 
> share it with so many. The time spend by Paul and others has saved 
my 
> time and made my choices much more informed. Again, thank you.
>      I am a 26 year old amateur landscape photographer who made the 
> leap into the digital world about 2 years ago with a very limited 
> budget, an Epson 750 and a Canon FS 2710 film scanner.
>      For the past 6 years I've been using a Canon Ellan II 35mm and 
> Velvia or Provia Film with good results, including gallery 
> exhibitions. Due to the ease of color/BW transformation in 
Photoshop, 
> I have discovered over the past 2 years, I prefer many of my images 
> in BW. I received as a gift the Epson 880 printer and using all the 
> information on the net, I have transformed it into a quad 
> print,getting better and better results. I believe I got as far so 
I 
> can on my own without asking for help.
> 
> So it is now, I turn to you for farther guidance.
> 
>      I am using MIS v inks on my Epson 880 with EAM and with Paul's 
> 1160 curves getting good results. But I think I can do better.
>      
>      a) If Paul's curves are printer/paper specific, how do I 
adjust 
> them ? I scanned a 21 step gradient on my flatbed and set the white 
> and black point in Photoshop. My values are off especially in 
> highlights and shadows. Is this something I should now adjust with 
> transfer curves ? Or do I touch Paul's curves ? Is scanning and 
> setting white/black point the way to check the gradient in the 
first 
> place ?  Is the relatively low dynamic range of my flatbed a 
> consideration in this testing process ? Will Paul's curves work 
with 
> all papers or should they be adjusted. Does anyone have such 
transfer 
> curves done already ?

Paul has done a monumental effort in building up the curves for the 
ink set. It looks like each ink, paper, and printer will ideally need 
its own curve and Paul is going to need a lot of help on this. He is 
even seeing some differences between the PC and Mac drivers for the 
same printers.

At the moment he is standardizing on Epson Archival Matte to build 
the curves. I have found that I can use these curves to print on 
Legion Photo Matte and Eclipse Satine but there are some small shifts 
in tonality. Paul suggests creating a transfer function to feed to 
the driver. Another possibility might be to work from Paul's curves 
and creating a second curve to modify Paul's, once you feel you have 
it nailed down add the two curves together to create a new curve.

> 
>      b) I am getting a small amount of dots in highlights but I 
think 
> they are related to the curve adjustments I need to do as discussed 
> above.  

Are these dots you see at normal, 12-14", or something you see with 
magnification? 
> 
>      c) If I use the 2880 dpi, Photo Paper setting with the fine 
art 
> paper should I see better prints or just more ink on the page ?

This falls into the try and see mode. I know in color the feeling was 
that there is no quality gain in going to 2880 but a loss in speed. 
At that setting I would expect the Epson driver to lay down less ink.

> 
>      d) I don't think I see much difference while scanning velvia 
in 
> color or grayscale. Is there a preferred method or is it all the 
same 
> as long as it enters grayscale at some point and the prints in RGB 
> using Paul's curves ? 

A lot of people, myself included, scan in RGB to make sure we extract 
all the information from the image possible. Even B&W. Some feel that 
one channel may be sharper than the other. I develop in pyro staining 
developers and have different density information on each channel so 
I believe there is a value to me to stay in RGB as long as possible. 
You could stay in RGB and simply Desaturate. I believe the only 
requirement is that each channel have identical histograms before you 
print with Paul's curves.

> 
>      e) Since I will be shooting more black and white, should I use 
> B/W negatives film, or color print film or should I stick to my 
> reversal Provia ? If you think one film type or particular brand 
> scanes better, please let me know. 

Not all agree but I opt for B&W film. Color films, including C-41 
process "B&W" films, have three emulsion layers and are not as sharp. 
Generally B&W neg film has the largest dynamic range, followed by 
color negative film and lastly color transparency film. I believe the 
transparency film has a sharpness advantage over color negative film.
> 
>      f) For split toning, I use two layrs adjusted with two 
different 
> curves. I then cut out a feathered section of the top one. Is this 
> the best way to do it ?
> 
>  So there you have it.Many questions. Please share your knowledge 
> once again. Any and all comments are greatly, greatly appreciated. 
If 
> I asked something already answered please forgive me as I made much 
> effort looking up the archive and must have missed it or am trying 
to 
> clearify particulars.  

Ask away. That's why the group exists.

Martin Wesley