Digital BW, The Print

Last spring Nicholson Baker published *Libraries and the Assault on 
Paper*, in which he raises Cain over the destruction of newspapers 
and other printed ephemera at the hands of librarians and others 
entrusted with their care. He had made his case first with an article 
in the *New Yorker*, and the two items made for quite a scandal. Any 
of the editorial reviews carried on the Amazon site will give you a 
sense of his argument.

At any rate, one of the few bright spots in his catalog of horrors
was the discovery that newspapers, even the oldest of those printed
on 
pulp, had stabilized to a astonishing degree. The professionals, 
assured for years that this was an impossibility, were clearing their 
shelves of the originals, which Baker found were in fact bearing up 
far better than the microfilm and microfiche alleged to have rescued 
the data from the inevitable corruption to which cheap paper 
supposedly doomed it.

Anyway, it makes for a good, if hair-raising story, well-worth a 
read.The point of course is that, to paraphrase Mr.Dooley, acid 
content is a hideous monster. On the other hand, not so fast. 

Apparently in the nick of time, Baker founded an institute dedicated 
to the rescue of runs of old newspapers (one of the reviewers gives 
its name, as I remember) A phone call might just put your mind at
ease 
when you next sigh over the elegant surface and fine whiteness of
that 
damned sour EAM.

Bob Bollini

(cross posted to PIEZO3000)

I've been happy doing 13 x19 Piezos and Gen4 color on an 1160 and a 
1200 with CIS setups, save the obvious ink stability issues. I've 
been thinking of stretching the budget for a 7600 if and when the 
third party inksters crack the chip and a quad or better BW solution 
arrives.

Today, however, an affordable used 7000 unexpectedly landed in my 
lap; I can pick it up tomorrow. It had been used with Indelible pigs, 
but has been flushed and has new ink pads reset by the Epson rep. No 
ink presently installed, and presumably in good shape (it is being 
replaced by a 7600). I don't know what (if any) accessories should 
come with it (I know it has no stand), any particular problems I 
should look out for, etc. I basically know nothing about the wide 
format printers. I do know I can download the Mac Epson driver and 
"Color Calibrator", but I'm inclined to spring for a RIP. As that's a 
substantial investment in itself, I'm in need of advice.

Traditionally, I've done most of my work in BW, so that's my 
priority. I'll probably set it up with PiezoTone ST and whatever K 
ends up the best. I just checked, and the Piezo Pro 24 RIP has 
disappeared from the Inkjet Mall site, presumably a casualty of the 
Cone/Sundance divorce. It seems to have been reincarnated by 
R-9/Sundance and is available, for $1495, from Digital Art Supplies.

The Piezography page is now touting a new "about to grow up" Piezo 
Pro RIP: "Stay tuned for the release date later this summer!" Well, 
the Vernal equinox is just a few hours away, and Conetech does have a 
tendency to promote wishware. Does anyone know if this will be a real 
product? Heard about any beta testers?

IJM is also pushing Imageprint 5. However, they recommend the Windows 
version, and I'm on a Mac (as is my school's lab, where I'd want to 
use the printer on occasion). I've seen other comments that the Mac 
version is clunky at best. And it is dongle-tied to a specific 
printer, so if I use the 7000 for BW, I get to pay extra for a color 
printer, even a 2200. I also get the impression that the IP BW dither 
is not quite as smooth and dotless as the Piezo/R-9. Comments? 
Amazingly, it also costs $1495.

Finally, as the original Piezo Pro RIP has been discontinued, my 
personal reservations about second hand software might be irrelevant. 
If anyone has a copy of the Mac version they would care to sell, I 
could be interested.

Any advice, cautions, insights or experiences to share would be welcome!


-- 
PS: Please note new ISP address, pvx@...

>
>Finally, as the original Piezo Pro RIP has been discontinued, my
>personal reservations about second hand software might be irrelevant.
>If anyone has a copy of the Mac version they would care to sell, I
>could be interested.

Checking further, it seems neither the Cone or R-9 Pro "Piezo" Rips 
are available for the Mac. Still interested if anyone has the old 
Cone version available, as I suppose I can use a cheap Wintel machine 
as a print server.


-- 
Bruce C. Kinch
Associate Professor of Photography
The Art Institute of Boston at Lesley University

Bruce,

here are some thoughts and comments on your post:


 
> Today, however, an affordable used 7000 unexpectedly landed in my 
> lap; I can pick it up tomorrow. It had been used with Indelible pigs, 
> but has been flushed and has new ink pads reset by the Epson rep. No 
> ink presently installed, and presumably in good shape (it is being 
> replaced by a 7600).

No inks, means, I hope, some kind of cleaning fluid is in there. You don't want 
dry heads. As for the inkpads, you can search on the 9000 list. Most people 
replace these with their own solution - anything from diapers to juice bottles!. 
For an out-of-warranty unit, it saves several hundred $ in service calls. You 
also have to reset the inkpad counters, for which you'll need a service 
manual.


 I don't know what (if any) accessories should 
> come with it (I know it has no stand), any particular problems I 
> should look out for, etc. 

Look for permanently clogged heads or mechanical problems that may 
prevent smooth operation across the 24 width. It's wise to print bands of color 
running the length and check with a loupe for  signs of trouble. Do that before 
you move it, if possible. It would be nice if it came with the 3" roll adapter, 
which is too expensive to buy as an accessory.


I just checked, and the Piezo Pro 24 RIP has 
> disappeared from the Inkjet Mall site, presumably a casualty of the 
> Cone/Sundance divorce. It seems to have been reincarnated by 
> R-9/Sundance and is available, for $1495, from Digital Art Supplies.

R-9 makes software to go with Sundance inks. It so happens that their profiles 
may also work with piezotones and MIS FS, but they are not  officially 
supporting these other inksets, so this may be a limiting factor for you.


> 
> The Piezography page is now touting a new "about to grow up" Piezo 
> Pro RIP: "Stay tuned for the release date later this summer!" Well, 
> the Vernal equinox is just a few hours away, and Conetech does have a 
> tendency to promote wishware. Does anyone know if this will be a real 
> product? Heard about any beta testers?

Why wait for wishware. ImagePrint ships now  and supports color and bw. 
They are also open to profiling other inks and papers, since they have no 
interest in "bundling". I would call Colorbyte,  if I were you, and discuss your 
situation.


> 
> IJM is also pushing Imageprint 5. 

IJM is hardly "pushing". They are selling it because they need to have  
software for their inks after the R-9 break up. 

>However, they recommend the Windows 
> version, and I'm on a Mac [...]. I've seen other comments that the Mac 
> version is clunky at best. 

The problems lie with OS 9. Colorbyte is soon to have an OS X version 
shipping. Yes, it is clunky, and I can get into details if you like, but once you 
get the hang of it (with excellent tech support from Colorbyte) it works fine. But 
be prepared at first to do a little head scratching! 

>And it is dongle-tied to a specific 
> printer, so if I use the 7000 for BW, I get to pay extra for a color 
> printer, even a 2200.

Actually the way it works is that you buy a licence for a given format (like large 
format or desktop etc) and for a given number of printers. You can add 
licences later (by getting a new encryption "key").  But you can always 
"deinstall" one printer and "install" another within the same format. So if you 
have a 2200 and a licence for 1 desktop printer, you can change to a 1280 
without extra cost as long as you remove the 2200 from the list of licenced 
printers that IP recognizes. As for the dongle... many RIPs use them, including, 
I think the R-9 (for the 7000).

> I also get the impression that the IP BW dither 
> is not quite as smooth and dotless as the Piezo/R-9. Comments? 


It's the other way around, actually, but the differences may get lost in an actual 
photograph. This is not always a fixed entity - it depends very much on how 
the profiles are written. The new IP5 has already improved on the dither of 
IP4. Keep in mind that a 7000 puts down fairly coarse dots. It works OK for BW 
because the software can mask some of it, but in color it looks very crude 
compared to, say, a 1280 which is a newer engine. 


> Amazingly, it also costs $1495.

For the large formats, yes. You then have to add a licence for desktops 
(around $500) if you want the option to use the same software for both. It may 
be beneficial to have consistent output from large and small printers and use 
the latter for proofs. Of course, if you have a whole farm of printers and you 
need to print to all of them simultneously, this can get very expensive. But I 
think that's a problem for service bureaus.


> 
> Finally, as the original Piezo Pro RIP has been discontinued, my 
> personal reservations about second hand software might be irrelevant. 
> If anyone has a copy of the Mac version they would care to sell, I 
> could be interested.

Keep in mind that the value of any RIP is directly tied to the quality and 
availabilty of profiles for the inks and papers you use. We are in a period of 
rapid change. After the fiasco with the Piezotone black, who knows what other 
inks are coming down, or if people are using the MIS FS K etc. Also, profiling 
for specific papers is an issue. Colorbyte is willing to profile any given paper 
you use provided they already support that particular inkset (i.e. they have a 
recipe for it). If you buy second hand, make sure there is a company behind it 
that is willing to keep up with new inksets and profile your papers. 

InkjetMall / ConeTech currently makes no profiles for their inks and papers. 
Instead you are expected to use trial and error until you find  an existing 
profile that works for your paper and ink. Likewise, R-9 only supports 
Sundance inks. 

Unfortunately, things change fast and you have to make decisions based on 
what's available right this minute - even if a year from now the game may 
change alltogether. And even Colorbyte, willing as they are to support new 
inks, may be delayed in their efforts because of problems with ink availabilty. 
So, for example, they haven't been able to profile the piezotones for the 1280 
because they can't get carts for it. And their profiles for the piezotones are now 
up in the air because the black is in question. And so on...

Antonis

Antonis,

This was an excellent summary...you should put it in the archives...under
Epson 7000 options.


Robert

On 9/24/02 11:14 AM, "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...> wrote:

> Bruce,
> 
> here are some thoughts and comments on your post:
> 
> 
> 
>> Today, however, an affordable used 7000 unexpectedly landed in my
>> lap; I can pick it up tomorrow. It had been used with Indelible pigs,
>> but has been flushed and has new ink pads reset by the Epson rep. No
>> ink presently installed, and presumably in good shape (it is being
>> replaced by a 7600).
> 
> No inks, means, I hope, some kind of cleaning fluid is in there. You don't
> want 
> dry heads. As for the inkpads, you can search on the 9000 list. Most people
> replace these with their own solution - anything from diapers to juice
> bottles!. 
> For an out-of-warranty unit, it saves several hundred $ in service calls. You
> also have to reset the inkpad counters, for which you'll need a service
> manual.
> 
> 
> I don't know what (if any) accessories should
>> come with it (I know it has no stand), any particular problems I
>> should look out for, etc.
> 
> Look for permanently clogged heads or mechanical problems that may
> prevent smooth operation across the 24 width. It's wise to print bands of
> color 
> running the length and check with a loupe for  signs of trouble. Do that
> before 
> you move it, if possible. It would be nice if it came with the 3" roll
> adapter, 
> which is too expensive to buy as an accessory.
> 
> 
> I just checked, and the Piezo Pro 24 RIP has
>> disappeared from the Inkjet Mall site, presumably a casualty of the
>> Cone/Sundance divorce. It seems to have been reincarnated by
>> R-9/Sundance and is available, for $1495, from Digital Art Supplies.
> 
> R-9 makes software to go with Sundance inks. It so happens that their profiles
> may also work with piezotones and MIS FS, but they are not  officially
> supporting these other inksets, so this may be a limiting factor for you.
> 
> 
>> 
>> The Piezography page is now touting a new "about to grow up" Piezo
>> Pro RIP: "Stay tuned for the release date later this summer!" Well,
>> the Vernal equinox is just a few hours away, and Conetech does have a
>> tendency to promote wishware. Does anyone know if this will be a real
>> product? Heard about any beta testers?
> 
> Why wait for wishware. ImagePrint ships now  and supports color and bw.
> They are also open to profiling other inks and papers, since they have no
> interest in "bundling". I would call Colorbyte,  if I were you, and discuss
> your 
> situation.
> 
> 
>> 
>> IJM is also pushing Imageprint 5.
> 
> IJM is hardly "pushing". They are selling it because they need to have
> software for their inks after the R-9 break up.
> 
>> However, they recommend the Windows
>> version, and I'm on a Mac [...]. I've seen other comments that the Mac
>> version is clunky at best.
> 
> The problems lie with OS 9. Colorbyte is soon to have an OS X version
> shipping. Yes, it is clunky, and I can get into details if you like, but once
> you 
> get the hang of it (with excellent tech support from Colorbyte) it works fine.
> But 
> be prepared at first to do a little head scratching!
> 
>> And it is dongle-tied to a specific
>> printer, so if I use the 7000 for BW, I get to pay extra for a color
>> printer, even a 2200.
> 
> Actually the way it works is that you buy a licence for a given format (like
> large 
> format or desktop etc) and for a given number of printers. You can add
> licences later (by getting a new encryption "key").  But you can always
> "deinstall" one printer and "install" another within the same format. So if
> you 
> have a 2200 and a licence for 1 desktop printer, you can change to a 1280
> without extra cost as long as you remove the 2200 from the list of licenced
> printers that IP recognizes. As for the dongle... many RIPs use them,
> including, 
> I think the R-9 (for the 7000).
> 
>> I also get the impression that the IP BW dither
>> is not quite as smooth and dotless as the Piezo/R-9. Comments?
> 
> 
> It's the other way around, actually, but the differences may get lost in an
> actual 
> photograph. This is not always a fixed entity - it depends very much on how
> the profiles are written. The new IP5 has already improved on the dither of
> IP4. Keep in mind that a 7000 puts down fairly coarse dots. It works OK for BW
> because the software can mask some of it, but in color it looks very crude
> compared to, say, a 1280 which is a newer engine.
> 
> 
>> Amazingly, it also costs $1495.
> 
> For the large formats, yes. You then have to add a licence for desktops
> (around $500) if you want the option to use the same software for both. It may
> be beneficial to have consistent output from large and small printers and use
> the latter for proofs. Of course, if you have a whole farm of printers and you
> need to print to all of them simultneously, this can get very expensive. But I
> think that's a problem for service bureaus.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Finally, as the original Piezo Pro RIP has been discontinued, my
>> personal reservations about second hand software might be irrelevant.
>> If anyone has a copy of the Mac version they would care to sell, I
>> could be interested.
> 
> Keep in mind that the value of any RIP is directly tied to the quality and
> availabilty of profiles for the inks and papers you use. We are in a period of
> rapid change. After the fiasco with the Piezotone black, who knows what other
> inks are coming down, or if people are using the MIS FS K etc. Also, profiling
> for specific papers is an issue. Colorbyte is willing to profile any given
> paper 
> you use provided they already support that particular inkset (i.e. they have a
> recipe for it). If you buy second hand, make sure there is a company behind it
> that is willing to keep up with new inksets and profile your papers.
> 
> InkjetMall / ConeTech currently makes no profiles for their inks and papers.
> Instead you are expected to use trial and error until you find  an existing
> profile that works for your paper and ink. Likewise, R-9 only supports
> Sundance inks. 
> 
> Unfortunately, things change fast and you have to make decisions based on
> what's available right this minute - even if a year from now the game may
> change alltogether. And even Colorbyte, willing as they are to support new
> inks, may be delayed in their efforts because of problems with ink
> availabilty. 
> So, for example, they haven't been able to profile the piezotones for the 1280
> because they can't get carts for it. And their profiles for the piezotones are
> now 
> up in the air because the black is in question. And so on...
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
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> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Antonis wrote-

>Bruce,
>
>here are some thoughts and comments on your post:


>  > Today, however, an affordable used 7000 unexpectedly landed in my
>  > lap; I can pick it up tomorrow. It had been used with Indelible pigs,
>>  but has been flushed and has new ink pads reset by the Epson rep. No
>>  ink presently installed, and presumably in good shape (it is being
>>  replaced by a 7600).
>
>No inks, means, I hope, some kind of cleaning fluid is in there. You 
>don't want
>dry heads.

Yes, cleaning cartridges in place.

>As for the inkpads, you can search on the 9000 list. Most people
>replace these with their own solution - anything from diapers to 
>juice bottles!.
>For an out-of-warranty unit, it saves several hundred $ in service calls. You
>also have to reset the inkpad counters, for which you'll need a service
>manual.
>
>
>  I don't know what (if any) accessories should
>>  come with it (I know it has no stand), any particular problems I
>>  should look out for, etc.
>
>Look for permanently clogged heads or mechanical problems that may
>prevent smooth operation across the 24 width. It's wise to print 
>bands of color
>running the length and check with a loupe for  signs of trouble. Do 
>that before
>you move it, if possible.

Oops, it's here. I own it:-) I understand the heads were replaced 
previously. Was in operation before 7600 arrived.

>  It would be nice if it came with the 3" roll adapter,
>which is too expensive to buy as an accessory.

2" only. I assume that means sheet feed for 300g+ paper?

>
>
>I just checked, and the Piezo Pro 24 RIP has
>>  disappeared from the Inkjet Mall site, presumably a casualty of the
>>  Cone/Sundance divorce. It seems to have been reincarnated by
>>  R-9/Sundance and is available, for $1495, from Digital Art Supplies.
>
>R-9 makes software to go with Sundance inks. It so happens that their profiles
>may also work with piezotones and MIS FS, but they are not  officially
>supporting these other inksets, so this may be a limiting factor for you.

That's a PT problem, mostly, I suspect. It prints a bit different on 
my 1160 too. Other than Dmax, I presume I can throw an adjustment 
curve at it.

>
>
>>
>>  The Piezography page is now touting a new "about to grow up" Piezo
>>  Pro RIP: "Stay tuned for the release date later this summer!" Well,
>>  the Vernal equinox is just a few hours away, and Conetech does have a
>>  tendency to promote wishware. Does anyone know if this will be a real
>>  product? Heard about any beta testers?
>
>Why wait for wishware. ImagePrint ships now  and supports color and bw.
>They are also open to profiling other inks and papers, since they have no
>interest in "bundling". I would call Colorbyte,  if I were you, and 
>discuss your
>situation.

Will do. Is IP5 significantly improved over 4, in your opinion?

>
>
>  >
>  > IJM is also pushing Imageprint 5.
>
>IJM is hardly "pushing". They are selling it because they need to have 
>software for their inks after the R-9 break up.

There seems to be an uneasy relationship between Cone and Colorbyte 
too, and some mutual involvement in the Piezo 2 product?

>
>>However, they recommend the Windows
>>  version, and I'm on a Mac [...]. I've seen other comments that the Mac
>>  version is clunky at best.
>
>The problems lie with OS 9. Colorbyte is soon to have an OS X version
>shipping. Yes, it is clunky, and I can get into details if you like, 
>but once you
>get the hang of it (with excellent tech support from Colorbyte) it 
>works fine. But
>be prepared at first to do a little head scratching!

I'd love some info, off list I presume. I've been sticking with OS 9 
because of the Piezo driver.

>
>
>>And it is dongle-tied to a specific
>>  printer, so if I use the 7000 for BW, I get to pay extra for a color
>>  printer, even a 2200.
>
>Actually the way it works is that you buy a licence for a given 
>format (like large
>format or desktop etc) and for a given number of printers. You can add
>licences later (by getting a new encryption "key").  But you can always
>"deinstall" one printer and "install" another within the same 
>format. So if you
>have a 2200 and a licence for 1 desktop printer, you can change to a 1280
>without extra cost as long as you remove the 2200 from the list of licenced
>printers that IP recognizes. As for the dongle... many RIPs use 
>them, including,
>I think the R-9 (for the 7000).

So if I replace or supplement the 7000 with a 7600 (or whatever) I'm covered?

>
>>  I also get the impression that the IP BW dither
>>  is not quite as smooth and dotless as the Piezo/R-9. Comments?
>
>
>It's the other way around, actually, but the differences may get 
>lost in an actual
>photograph. This is not always a fixed entity - it depends very much on how
>the profiles are written. The new IP5 has already improved on the dither of
>IP4. Keep in mind that a 7000 puts down fairly coarse dots. It works OK for BW
>because the software can mask some of it, but in color it looks very crude
>compared to, say, a 1280 which is a newer engine.
>
>
>>  Amazingly, it also costs $1495.
>
>For the large formats, yes. You then have to add a licence for desktops
>(around $500) if you want the option to use the same software for both. It may
>be beneficial to have consistent output from large and small printers and use
>the latter for proofs. Of course, if you have a whole farm of printers and you
>need to print to all of them simultneously, this can get very expensive. But I
>think that's a problem for service bureaus.
>
>
>>
>>  Finally, as the original Piezo Pro RIP has been discontinued, my
>>  personal reservations about second hand software might be irrelevant.
>>  If anyone has a copy of the Mac version they would care to sell, I
>>  could be interested.
>
>Keep in mind that the value of any RIP is directly tied to the quality and
>availabilty of profiles for the inks and papers you use. We are in a period of
>rapid change. After the fiasco with the Piezotone black, who knows what other
>inks are coming down, or if people are using the MIS FS K etc. Also, profiling
>for specific papers is an issue. Colorbyte is willing to profile any 
>given paper
>you use provided they already support that particular inkset (i.e. they have a
>recipe for it). If you buy second hand, make sure there is a company behind it
>that is willing to keep up with new inksets and profile your papers.
>
>InkjetMall / ConeTech currently makes no profiles for their inks and papers.
>Instead you are expected to use trial and error until you find  an existing
>profile that works for your paper and ink. Likewise, R-9 only supports
>Sundance inks.

That is one really big sticking point. But there are not many quad 
profiles yet from Colorbyte.

>
>Unfortunately, things change fast and you have to make decisions based on
>what's available right this minute - even if a year from now the game may
>change alltogether. And even Colorbyte, willing as they are to support new
>inks, may be delayed in their efforts because of problems with ink 
>availabilty.
>So, for example, they haven't been able to profile the piezotones for the 1280
>because they can't get carts for it. And their profiles for the 
>piezotones are now
>up in the air because the black is in question. And so on...
>
Thanks for all the info.

Regards,

Bruce
-- 
PS: Please note new ISP address, pvx@...

Ooops, meant to send prior post to Antonis directly. AFWB.
-- 
PS: Please note new ISP address, pvx@...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Bruce Kinch" <pvx@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:28 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: RIP for 7000?


> >  It would be nice if it came with the 3" roll adapter,
> >which is too expensive to buy as an accessory.
> 
> 2" only. I assume that means sheet feed for 300g+ paper?

It is quite easy to make adapters for 2">3" cores, see :

http://members.chello.nl/e.dinkla/Custom_Epson_9000.htm

Almost at the bottom of the page.

Ernst