Digital BW, The Print

Paul, this is really distressing news, and you are the second person to
say this.  I certainly don't want a yellower paper than the old EAM. And
if it has weaker blacks, what good is it?  I can't afford Photo rag to
use as my normal paper. And there doesn't look like any alternatives...
Now what do we do? 

The absolute blackest blacks I can get are those of the Generations or
MIS archival inks, using the Enhanced blacks on the old EAM paper.  But
you have to have a good profile for the ink/printer/paper to make a
black and white print without crossovers.

If you ever test any papers that give really great blacks, please keep
the list informed. 

I don't want to varnish any papers, that effect looks terrible to me.

Jerry



Paul Roark wrote:

> 
> I recently took delivery on some new EAM from Atlex.com, and it seems to be
> a slightly different coating than previous batches.  The paper looks a bit
> yellow, in fact, the X-Rite says it is just 0.01 density units darker.  The
> blacks are weak -- 1.61 v. 1.68 for the last batch -- and the profile is
> different.  I tweaked my 3000 curves to adjust to the new coating, but I'm
> not happy with this batch of EAM.  (It is still called "Archival" matte.)
> The Dmax is about the same as Legion Photo Matte, and the paper looks yellow
> and dull in comparison.
> 
> Has anyone who has noticed this difference contacted Epson about it?
> Frankly, I want the old coating.  This new batch of paper I received just is
> not as good.
> 
> I also took delivery of a MediaStreet.com package of their Royal Renaissance
> (189), which they claim is PhotoRag.  It is packaged incorrectly.  The side
> marked "Print this side" is the back of the paper.  Use the "tongue" or
> "lips" test.  The sticky side is the coated side.
> 
> I had not used Royal Renaissance of PhotoRag 189 before.  I find it is very
> sensitive to the pizza wheels of the 3000 -- the most affected paper I've
> used.  Have others noticed the problem of surface blemished caused by the
> printer's wheels?
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Sounds like all the yellow batch we know of is the one from Atlex. I 
have a couple of boxes due to arrive Monday or Tuesday from 
Inkjetgoodies... I will crack one open and see if it has the same 
problem and let you know.

Tom O'Connell


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Paul, this is really distressing news, and you are the second 
person to
> say this.  I certainly don't want a yellower paper than the old 
EAM. And
> if it has weaker blacks, what good is it?  I can't afford Photo rag 
to
> use as my normal paper. And there doesn't look like any 
alternatives...
> Now what do we do? 
> 
> The absolute blackest blacks I can get are those of the Generations 
or
> MIS archival inks, using the Enhanced blacks on the old EAM paper.  
But
> you have to have a good profile for the ink/printer/paper to make a
> black and white print without crossovers.
> 
> If you ever test any papers that give really great blacks, please 
keep
> the list informed. 
> 
> I don't want to varnish any papers, that effect looks terrible to 
me.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Roark wrote:
> > 
> > I recently took delivery on some new EAM from Atlex.com, and it 
seems to be
> > a slightly different coating than previous batches.  The paper 
looks a bit
> > yellow, in fact, the X-Rite says it is just 0.01 density units 
darker.  The
> > blacks are weak -- 1.61 v. 1.68 for the last batch -- and the 
profile is
> > different.  I tweaked my 3000 curves to adjust to the new 
coating, but I'm
> > not happy with this batch of EAM.  (It is still called "Archival" 
matte.)
> > The Dmax is about the same as Legion Photo Matte, and the paper 
looks yellow
> > and dull in comparison.
> > 
> > Has anyone who has noticed this difference contacted Epson about 
it?
> > Frankly, I want the old coating.  This new batch of paper I 
received just is
> > not as good.
> > 
> > I also took delivery of a MediaStreet.com package of their Royal 
Renaissance
> > (189), which they claim is PhotoRag.  It is packaged 
incorrectly.  The side
> > marked "Print this side" is the back of the paper.  Use 
the "tongue" or
> > "lips" test.  The sticky side is the coated side.
> > 
> > I had not used Royal Renaissance of PhotoRag 189 before.  I find 
it is very
> > sensitive to the pizza wheels of the 3000 -- the most affected 
paper I've
> > used.  Have others noticed the problem of surface blemished 
caused by the
> > printer's wheels?
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Tom,

The warmer paper is more than just Atlex.com as a supplier issue.  I 
was allowed to crack open a box at our local CompUSA store. Same Lot 
Number, same warm paper.  This is just terrible.

Community at large: Is there any way to nip this in the bud? A few 
boxes of poor 8.5 x 11 I can live with - if it spills over to the 13 
x 19 paper............Not good!  Perhaps mass e-mails and calls to 
Epson customer service?

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tom O'Connell" 
<TomOC@s...> wrote:
> Sounds like all the yellow batch we know of is the one from Atlex. 
I 
> have a couple of boxes due to arrive Monday or Tuesday from 
> Inkjetgoodies... I will crack one open and see if it has the same 
> problem and let you know.
> 
> Tom O'Connell
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Paul, this is really distressing news, and you are the second 
> person to
> > say this.  I certainly don't want a yellower paper than the old 
> EAM. And
> > if it has weaker blacks, what good is it?  I can't afford Photo 
rag 
> to
> > use as my normal paper. And there doesn't look like any 
> alternatives...
> > Now what do we do? 
> > 
> > The absolute blackest blacks I can get are those of the 
Generations 
> or
> > MIS archival inks, using the Enhanced blacks on the old EAM 
paper.  
> But
> > you have to have a good profile for the ink/printer/paper to make 
a
> > black and white print without crossovers.
> > 
> > If you ever test any papers that give really great blacks, please 
> keep
> > the list informed. 
> > 
> > I don't want to varnish any papers, that effect looks terrible to 
> me.
> > 
> > Jerry
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Paul Roark wrote:
> > > 
> > > I recently took delivery on some new EAM from Atlex.com, and it 
> seems to be
> > > a slightly different coating than previous batches.  The paper 
> looks a bit
> > > yellow, in fact, the X-Rite says it is just 0.01 density units 
> darker.  The
> > > blacks are weak -- 1.61 v. 1.68 for the last batch -- and the 
> profile is
> > > different.  I tweaked my 3000 curves to adjust to the new 
> coating, but I'm
> > > not happy with this batch of EAM.  (It is still 
called "Archival" 
> matte.)
> > > The Dmax is about the same as Legion Photo Matte, and the paper 
> looks yellow
> > > and dull in comparison.
> > > 
> > > Has anyone who has noticed this difference contacted Epson 
about 
> it?
> > > Frankly, I want the old coating.  This new batch of paper I 
> received just is
> > > not as good.
> > > 
> > > I also took delivery of a MediaStreet.com package of their 
Royal 
> Renaissance
> > > (189), which they claim is PhotoRag.  It is packaged 
> incorrectly.  The side
> > > marked "Print this side" is the back of the paper.  Use 
> the "tongue" or
> > > "lips" test.  The sticky side is the coated side.
> > > 
> > > I had not used Royal Renaissance of PhotoRag 189 before.  I 
find 
> it is very
> > > sensitive to the pizza wheels of the 3000 -- the most affected 
> paper I've
> > > used.  Have others noticed the problem of surface blemished 
> caused by the
> > > printer's wheels?
> > > 
> > > Paul
> > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
> is at:
> > > 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > 
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> visiting this same page.
> > > 
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject 
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and 
the 

> various resources on the homepage.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Me too! After reading the posts I opened a box of EAM from CompUSA. Much
warmer. All of us who use this as a very reasonably priced paper MUST
write to Epson. I'm about to do so.
 
Stan Shire
Associate Professor/Department Chair
Photographic Imaging
Community College of Philadelphia
Adobe Photoshop 6 A.C.E.
Author: Hands On Photoshop 7: Tutorial Workshops

215 751-8320
sshire@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom O'Connell [mailto:TomOC@...] 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 2:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New EAM & MediaStreet Royal Renaissance
(PhotoRag)
 
Sounds like all the yellow batch we know of is the one from Atlex. I 
have a couple of boxes due to arrive Monday or Tuesday from 
Inkjetgoodies... I will crack one open and see if it has the same 
problem and let you know.

Tom O'Connell


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Paul, this is really distressing news, and you are the second 
person to
> say this.  I certainly don't want a yellower paper than the old 
EAM. And
> if it has weaker blacks, what good is it?  I can't afford Photo rag 
to
> use as my normal paper. And there doesn't look like any 
alternatives...
> Now what do we do? 
> 
> The absolute blackest blacks I can get are those of the Generations 
or
> MIS archival inks, using the Enhanced blacks on the old EAM paper.  
But
> you have to have a good profile for the ink/printer/paper to make a
> black and white print without crossovers.
> 
> If you ever test any papers that give really great blacks, please 
keep
> the list informed. 
> 
> I don't want to varnish any papers, that effect looks terrible to 
me.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Roark wrote:
> > 
> > I recently took delivery on some new EAM from Atlex.com, and it 
seems to be
> > a slightly different coating than previous batches.  The paper 
looks a bit
> > yellow, in fact, the X-Rite says it is just 0.01 density units 
darker.  The
> > blacks are weak -- 1.61 v. 1.68 for the last batch -- and the 
profile is
> > different.  I tweaked my 3000 curves to adjust to the new 
coating, but I'm
> > not happy with this batch of EAM.  (It is still called "Archival" 
matte.)
> > The Dmax is about the same as Legion Photo Matte, and the paper 
looks yellow
> > and dull in comparison.
> > 
> > Has anyone who has noticed this difference contacted Epson about 
it?
> > Frankly, I want the old coating.  This new batch of paper I 
received just is
> > not as good.
> > 
> > I also took delivery of a MediaStreet.com package of their Royal 
Renaissance
> > (189), which they claim is PhotoRag.  It is packaged 
incorrectly.  The side
> > marked "Print this side" is the back of the paper.  Use 
the "tongue" or
> > "lips" test.  The sticky side is the coated side.
> > 
> > I had not used Royal Renaissance of PhotoRag 189 before.  I find 
it is very
> > sensitive to the pizza wheels of the 3000 -- the most affected 
paper I've
> > used.  Have others noticed the problem of surface blemished 
caused by the
> > printer's wheels?
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you can get an address I will surly send them a msg.

Vinny
http://www.wulfsden.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Shilesh Jani" 
<shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> The warmer paper is more than just Atlex.com as a supplier issue.  
I 
> was allowed to crack open a box at our local CompUSA store. Same 
Lot 
> Number, same warm paper.  This is just terrible.
> 
> Community at large: Is there any way to nip this in the bud? A few 
> boxes of poor 8.5 x 11 I can live with - if it spills over to the 
13 
> x 19 paper............Not good!  Perhaps mass e-mails and calls to 
> Epson customer service?
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tom O'Connell" 
> <TomOC@s...> wrote:
> > Sounds like all the yellow batch we know of is the one from 
Atlex. 
> I 
> > have a couple of boxes due to arrive Monday or Tuesday from 
> > Inkjetgoodies... I will crack one open and see if it has the same 
> > problem and let you know.
> > 
> > Tom O'Connell
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
> > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > Paul, this is really distressing news, and you are the second 
> > person to
> > > say this.  I certainly don't want a yellower paper than the old 
> > EAM. And
> > > if it has weaker blacks, what good is it?  I can't afford Photo 
> rag 
> > to
> > > use as my normal paper. And there doesn't look like any 
> > alternatives...
> > > Now what do we do? 
> > > 
> > > The absolute blackest blacks I can get are those of the 
> Generations 
> > or
> > > MIS archival inks, using the Enhanced blacks on the old EAM 
> paper.  
> > But
> > > you have to have a good profile for the ink/printer/paper to 
make 
> a
> > > black and white print without crossovers.
> > > 
> > > If you ever test any papers that give really great blacks, 
please 
> > keep
> > > the list informed. 
> > > 
> > > I don't want to varnish any papers, that effect looks terrible 
to 
> > me.
> > > 
> > > Jerry
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Paul Roark wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I recently took delivery on some new EAM from Atlex.com, and 
it 
> > seems to be
> > > > a slightly different coating than previous batches.  The 
paper 
> > looks a bit
> > > > yellow, in fact, the X-Rite says it is just 0.01 density 
units 
> > darker.  The
> > > > blacks are weak -- 1.61 v. 1.68 for the last batch -- and the 
> > profile is
> > > > different.  I tweaked my 3000 curves to adjust to the new 
> > coating, but I'm
> > > > not happy with this batch of EAM.  (It is still 
> called "Archival" 
> > matte.)
> > > > The Dmax is about the same as Legion Photo Matte, and the 
paper 
> > looks yellow
> > > > and dull in comparison.
> > > > 
> > > > Has anyone who has noticed this difference contacted Epson 
> about 
> > it?
> > > > Frankly, I want the old coating.  This new batch of paper I 
> > received just is
> > > > not as good.
> > > > 
> > > > I also took delivery of a MediaStreet.com package of their 
> Royal 
> > Renaissance
> > > > (189), which they claim is PhotoRag.  It is packaged 
> > incorrectly.  The side
> > > > marked "Print this side" is the back of the paper.  Use 
> > the "tongue" or
> > > > "lips" test.  The sticky side is the coated side.
> > > > 
> > > > I had not used Royal Renaissance of PhotoRag 189 before.  I 
> find 
> > it is very
> > > > sensitive to the pizza wheels of the 3000 -- the most 
affected 
> > paper I've
> > > > used.  Have others noticed the problem of surface blemished 
> > caused by the
> > > > printer's wheels?
> > > > 
> > > > Paul
> > > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, 
> > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The 
page 
> > is at:
> > > > 
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > 
> > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
you 
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> > visiting this same page.
> > > > 
> > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep them short.
> > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
> subject 
> > header.
> > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or 

> > "flames."
> > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and 
> the 
> > various resources on the homepage.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Tom O'Connell writes:
 > Sounds like all the yellow batch we know of is the one from Atlex. I 
 > have a couple of boxes due to arrive Monday or Tuesday from 
 > Inkjetgoodies... I will crack one open and see if it has the same 
 > problem and let you know.

I've got a box from the same batch (02CC2004M) that I bought from a
local shop in Berkeley, CA.  I don't notice it being explicitly
yellow, but it's only my second box and I tend to compare it to a very
yellow batch of Hahnemuhle German Etching, so just about anything
looks white.....

g.