Digital BW, The Print

Just curious.  I've read rumors in a few places that Epson may 
introduce new black inks for the 2200.  Does anyone have any info on 
this?

Thanks.

I've heard rumors about quad black inks for the 2200, but I'm skeptical.
Epson claims the machine is capable of good B&W as is.  If they came out
with B&W inks for it, wouldn't that imply that the machine really was not up
to printing B&W with the standard inkset?

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

_________________________________________

  -----Original Message-----
  From: chipcarterdc [mailto:chipcarterdc@...]
  Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:45 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-black inks?


  Just curious.  I've read rumors in a few places that Epson may
  introduce new black inks for the 2200.  Does anyone have any info on
  this?

  Thanks.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,
Have you tried printing on a 2200 in B/W yet?

Barry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I've heard rumors about quad black inks for the 2200, but I'm 
skeptical.
> Epson claims the machine is capable of good B&W as is.  If they 
came out
> with B&W inks for it, wouldn't that imply that the machine really 
was not up
> to printing B&W with the standard inkset?
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> _________________________________________
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: chipcarterdc [mailto:chipcarterdc@h...]
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:45 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-black 
inks?
> 
> 
>   Just curious.  I've read rumors in a few places that Epson may
>   introduce new black inks for the 2200.  Does anyone have any 
info on

>   this?
> 
>   Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 
>   Just curious.  I've read rumors in a few places that Epson may
>   introduce new black inks for the 2200.  Does anyone have any info on
>   this?

 Why mess around with a pricey 2200? You can buy a 1280 with a rebate now for $399. Buy a bulk inking system and quad black inks from MIS ( inksupply.com )
Even if Epson came out with quads ( or what is the latin word for 7?), don't even consider swapping color and quads in and out. You need a dedicated printer for quads.

Barry,

No, I have not tried printing with a 2200.  The "B&W" test strip that I have
is not what I'd call good B&W.  However, from what I've hear, if a good
profile is generated for the machine, whether by their European "gray
balancer" or otherwise, the B&W prints look very good.  The ink's stability
is probably good enough to satisfy many printers.  I think it will still
drift over the long haul, however.

Between the price difference for the average user, and the long-term
stability for the high-end sales, I think "quads" are fairly safe for a
while.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

__________________________________

  -----Original Message-----
  From: flyfishingusa2002 [mailto:tflyfish@...]
  Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:20 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-black inks?


  Paul,
  Have you tried printing on a 2200 in B/W yet?

  Barry

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
  <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
  > I've heard rumors about quad black inks for the 2200, but I'm
  skeptical.
  > Epson claims the machine is capable of good B&W as is.  If they
  came out
  > with B&W inks for it, wouldn't that imply that the machine really
  was not up
  > to printing B&W with the standard inkset?
  >
  > Paul
  > http://www.PaulRoark.com
  >
  > _________________________________________
  >
  >   -----Original Message-----
  >   From: chipcarterdc [mailto:chipcarterdc@h...]
  >   Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:45 PM
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
  >   Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-black
  inks?
  >
  >
  >   Just curious.  I've read rumors in a few places that Epson may
  >   introduce new black inks for the 2200.  Does anyone have any
  info on
  >   this?
  >
  >   Thanks.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,
I have been learning and using a 1160 and  3000 with various ink 
sets over the last year. I gave up on Jon's inks after 
the "Greenies" and have been using MIS Vm (using your workflows, for 
which I thank you) and MIS FSN in the 3000. I also have been using a 
1270 for color prints. The MIS inks have been fine, not so with the 
Epson 1270. Most of my color prints have turned orange of course. 
Then along came the 2200 and I managed to find one at CompUSA.
I have printed a number of color prints using the Photo Black ink 
and some Epson paper. The results are beautiful. As I have already 
posted, the inks take a very long time to set. I a seeing a 
improvement in saturation even after two days. There is a little 
meterisium of course with glossy paper, but this reduces also with 
time to be quite acceptable to me. 
I have now progressed to printing B/W using first of all the Epson 
Grey Balancer test image. The tonal results are wonderful. The first 
image came out looking like a cool curve from the 1160 with the vm 
setup. I have adjusted using the Grey Balancer and I now am able to 
get a much more neutral print. 
One of the  features of the grey balancer is that it enables you to 
set up a print tone rather like choosing a tone with VM. 
I have not done much on this as yet since I am waiting for the Matte 
Black ink to show up.
I have not measured the DMAX with the Photo Black ink since I am 
printing on EAM. It looks really good though.
I have only just started on the 2200 learning curve, but if current 
results are much to go on in the end I might well end up getting rid 
of my other printers. What MIS and Jon should be looking at is 
producing compatible inks for it at a cheaper price. For me I am 
willing to pay for UltraChromes because of the results. 
If you like you can send me a test file and when I get the Matte 
Black I will print for you so you can test for fade etc.
You might just want to go buy one. I know that I would like a 7600 
if I could afford one!

Barry
> Barry,
> 
> No, I have not tried printing with a 2200.  The "B&W" test strip 
that I have
> is not what I'd call good B&W.  However, from what I've hear, if a 
good
> profile is generated for the machine, whether by their 
European "gray
> balancer" or otherwise, the B&W prints look very good.  The ink's 
stability
> is probably good enough to satisfy many printers.  I think it will 
still
> drift over the long haul, however.
> 
> Between the price difference for the average user, and the long-
term
> stability for the high-end sales, I think "quads" are fairly safe 
for a
> while.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> __________________________________
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: flyfishingusa2002 [mailto:tflyfish@c...]
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:20 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-
black inks?
> 
> 
>   Paul,
>   Have you tried printing on a 2200 in B/W yet?
> 
>   Barry
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
>   <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>   > I've heard rumors about quad black inks for the 2200, but I'm
>   skeptical.
>   > Epson claims the machine is capable of good B&W as is.  If they
>   came out
>   > with B&W inks for it, wouldn't that imply that the machine 
really
>   was not up
>   > to printing B&W with the standard inkset?
>   >
>   > Paul
>   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
>   >
>   > _________________________________________
>   >
>   >   -----Original Message-----
>   >   From: chipcarterdc [mailto:chipcarterdc@h...]
>   >   Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:45 PM
>   >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   >   Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-
black
>   inks?
>   >
>   >
>   >   Just curious.  I've read rumors in a few places that Epson 
may
>   >   introduce new black inks for the 2200.  Does anyone have any
>   info on
>   >   this?
>   >
>   >   Thanks.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barry,

>...along came the 2200 and I managed to find one at CompUSA.
>...now progressed to printing B/W using first of all the Epson
>Grey Balancer test image. The tonal results are wonderful. ...

>What MIS and Jon should be looking at is
>producing compatible inks for it at a cheaper price.

I have heard that third-party UC inks are already being sampled.  However,
it could be a year before the chips are reverse-engineered.

>... send me a test file and when I get the Matte
>Black I will print for you so you can test for fade etc.

Thanks, I've already tested a 2200 "B&W" test strip.  The inks are great.
The matte black is the best ink I've tested on EAM.  The midtones were as
good as any ink also, basically tying the PiezoTone midtones for fade
resistance.

What I have not heard is whether anyone has tried the UC inks in older Epson
printers.  If they have the right viscosity, the UC inks and their clones
might be used in quads for the old printers.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

>Paul wrote
> What I have not heard is whether anyone has tried the UC inks in 
older Epson
> printers.  If they have the right viscosity, the UC inks and their 
clones
> might be used in quads for the old printers.

Just curious.
There are black and gray in the UC set.
Do you know if the gray is a dilution
of black or contains the other (CYM) colors?

I thought only the carbon based inks are not
mixes of cmyk? And even those sometimes are.

Your thoughts about a UC quad strategy?

Thanks
Bob

Bob,

>There are black and gray in the UC set.
>Do you know if the gray is a dilution
>of black or contains the other (CYM) colors?

I don't know much about the light gray.  I doubt that it is predominantly
composed to color inks, however.  I assume it is mostly a neutral, coated
pigment.  Note that it is not changed when matte paper is used.  Only the
deep black needs to be changed to get an adequate Dmax.

>Your thoughts about a UC quad strategy?

The fade-resistance of the inks is outstanding, and the ability of most of
the inks (all but the matte black) to print on glossy paper is also a big
plus for many.  We'll have to see whether the clone inks can achieve either
of these attributes.  To the extent they do, and if the inks will run in
older Epsons, I would think the attributes of the UC inkset in existing quad
formats would be interesting.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "chipcarterdc" <chipcarterdc@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-black inks?


> Just curious.  I've read rumors in a few places that Epson may
> introduce new black inks for the 2200.  Does anyone have any info on
> this?

There's something in development at Epson. Whether it will make it to the
market is hard to say.
I've talked with someone on the Epson stand at the Fotokina. I said
CMYKkk(+glossK) and he nodded.

BTW, Ilford considers dropping the Monokrome pigment quad inks for Encads.
Too small a market I was told. Ilford is getting more and more Epson
orientated. But can not sell their own inks that way. They must have paper
deals with Epson though but is that enough ?

John Nollendorfs mentioned the use of Ultrachrome in a 9000 without
problems.

Ernst

Ernst wrote:

>I've talked with someone on the Epson stand at the Fotokina. I said
>CMYKkk(+glossK) and he nodded.

That could be an interesting machine.  Without the light color inks,
however, the dots would be visible in the highlights for color printing or
toned quads.  The dot size is about like the 1160, where some are bothered
by the cool toner of the MIS VM inkset, even though with that inkset the
cold toner is low gamut and light

>Ilford considers dropping the Monokrome pigment quad inks for Encads.
>Too small a market I was told. ...

I'd guess that is the reason the big guys aren't in this market already.  I
suspect Epson's B&W efforts will always be limited what they can do with a
setup that is basically designed for color.  However, since color benefits
from the ability to have a neutral grayscale, I think the 2200/7600 is the
beginning of the end of dedicated quad systems.  If there is an 8-ink
(7800?) it should be able to do it all.

>John Nollendorfs mentioned the use of Ultrachrome in a 9000 without
>problems.

Great.  We can move on to some interesting new inks now.  I have yet to see
and cheap 3rd party inks yet, however.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 2200: Any word on rumored quad-black inks?


> However, it could be a year before the chips are reverse-engineered.

It is reverse-engineered.
see:  http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html



/G\ufffdran Sandberg