Digital BW, The Print

From: "craygc" <craygc@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] At the risk of asking an old question...


> Two questions actually...
>
> The first is, what are the main benefits/disadvantages in the choices
> between PiezoTone CIS and MIS CFS systems for printing digital B&W?
> Views, recommendations, things to look out for, etc.
>
> The second, as the PiezoTone systems use their own custom print
> drivers, is there any knowledge on timelines for releasing them for
> the Mac OS-X operating system.
>
 Craig,

I wish it was that simple. Here are some points to consider.

The CIS and CFS units are independent of and interchangeable with any of the
inks and software. I personally think the CIS is a nicer and easier to use
system than the MIS CFS but the MIS product is cheaper and it works. There
are other continuous inking systems available, too.

The PiezoBW plugin was developed by Sundance/R9 and sold exclusively by
inkjetmall/ConeTech for two years. The companies have parted ways and are
selling the software separately. You can buy R9's "IMAGE EXPORT BW" plugin
which is the same as the Piezo plugin. However on their website,
http://www.bwguys.com/, they say, "The Macintosh\ufffd version of Image Export BW
runs under Photoshop\ufffd versions 5 and higher. Mac OS versions 8.5 to 10.2 are
supported" I am not a Mac user but I believe that is the most recent version
of the OS. So the R9 version of the plugin may be more up to date than what
is being sold at inkjetmall. The price is the same at both places. At this
point in time I would buy it from R9 since you would be in line for future
upgrades and I suspect that inkjetmall will completely part company with
Sundance/R9 as soon as they have another software alternative on line.

The Piezo/R9 plugin with it's paper profiles is designed for the ink
densities of the original Piezo/Sundance inks and the MIS Full Spectrum inks
which were designed as a clone of the Piezo inks. The PiezoTone inks on the
other hand have slightly different densities and do not work quite as
smoothly with the plugin as the original inks. Some people are reporting
good results and others not so good, so that question is up in the air at
the moment.

You have asked your questions at a moment when a lot of things are up in the
air with grayscale inks and software and we are all eagerly watching to see
where they will land.

I have probably added to your confusion but keep asking questions and
hopefully things will get clearer.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Austin Franklin [mailto:darkroom@...] 
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 8:36 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] At the risk of asking an old question...

John,

> The piezo driver "drives" the Epson stepper motor in finer
> increments as the Epson driver does.

Do you know that is a fact?  I really don't believe it's true, though a
"claim" was made that that the Piezo driver print 2160, not
1440...though no
one has ever been able to explain how that actually does it, as it's
beyond
the mechanical limitations of the printer motors and encoders.

Regards,

Austin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gus J Grubba [mailto:gus@...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:32 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] At the risk of asking an old question...
>
>
> Austin,
>
> That's a good question. Is there a way to control an Epson printer other
> than through its ESC/P protocol? That would be the only way to do
> something like that. You can always create different dot patterns
> (dithering) but the spacing is pretty much defined by the printer's
> firmware (I would think).
>
> g
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Austin Franklin [mailto:darkroom@...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 8:36 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] At the risk of asking an old question...
>
> John,
>
> > The piezo driver "drives" the Epson stepper motor in finer
> > increments as the Epson driver does.
>
> Do you know that is a fact?  I really don't believe it's true, though a
> "claim" was made that that the Piezo driver print 2160, not
> 1440...though no
> one has ever been able to explain how that actually does it, as it's
> beyond
> the mechanical limitations of the printer motors and encoders.
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroom@...>


> Hi Gus,
>
> The limitation is going to be more than firmware, but mechanical.  The
motor
> only has so much resolution if it's a stepper, and if it uses encoders
> (which it does I believe, on the 3000 for the paper advance at least),
your
> resolution is that of the encoder, period.  Firmware or special commands
> can't override the mechanicals!
>
> >From what I understand, the only way to get 1440 is using "micro weave".
If
> you want a copy of the ESC/P command set, you can get it from the Epson
> developers site...but that's not all there is, as apparently there are
more
> undocumented commands, unless you're on NDA with Epson...but still, those
> commands can't override the mechanical limits of the printer.

> Austin,
>
> Sorry for the delay in replying - been away. My 1270 and 1290
> definitely do
> not have stepper motors, but use encoders as you suggest. The
> service manual
> for the 1270 states that the encoder sensors have a minimum resolution
> (carriage and paper motor encoders) of 1/180". Haven't got a
> manual for the
> 1290 yet.
>
> Bob Frost.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroom@...>
>
>
> > Hi Gus,
> >
> > The limitation is going to be more than firmware, but mechanical.  The
> motor
> > only has so much resolution if it's a stepper, and if it uses encoders
> > (which it does I believe, on the 3000 for the paper advance at least),
> your
> > resolution is that of the encoder, period.  Firmware or special commands
> > can't override the mechanicals!
> >
> > >From what I understand, the only way to get 1440 is using
> "micro weave".
> If
> > you want a copy of the ESC/P command set, you can get it from the Epson
> > developers site...but that's not all there is, as apparently there are
> more
> > undocumented commands, unless you're on NDA with Epson...but
> still, those
> > commands can't override the mechanical limits of the printer.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroom@...>

> Hi Bob,
>
> How about for the horizontal head movement?  That's not a stepper?  Paper
> advance makes sense to use an encoder...

> Austin,
>
> Both the same on the 1270 according to the manual. Both DC motors and
> encoders with min res 1/180". The long plastic strip above the drive 
> band is
> the horizontal encoder strip (with a lens you can see the markings on it).
>
> Bob Frost.
>