Digital BW, The Print

You have much more control over the process in Silverfast's Unsharp Mask
Filter (use it in the expert mode)...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Jolliff" <scott@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Scott Jolliff" <scott@...>

Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:30 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Sharpen scan or after?


> ... There's no better software in the world for
> managing pixels than Photoshop ...

Sunday, November 17, 2002, 11:31:50 PM, Loris Medici wrote:

LM> You have much more control over the process in Silverfast's Unsharp Mask
LM> Filter (use it in the expert mode)...


But once you sharpen then you're stuck with that result from there on
out.  What if you want to re-size for another use?  Scan again?  By
definition of the time you are sharpening (at the scan) you have less
control.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

L i n k s  t o  m y  g a l l e r i e s:
http://fujirangefinder.com/document.php?id=246

Alan,

>>>>
Some people build an image from countless layers that they diddle with
endlessly.  I call that digital illustration. Do you want to do that? 
>>>>

Isn't this a dangerous generalization?  How much diddling with layers
does it take to cross the line?

I have a 6x7 neg of the St. Marks lighthouse on the Florida panhandle
coast (taken in 1987) which I was never able to print because the sun
side of the lighthouse matched the background sky tone almost exactly
(didn't think to use a filter - duh).  I theoretically could have
masked it on the neg with magenta dye but it was too small and I never
seemed to have a knack for brush skills anyway, so I gave up on ever
getting a good print from it.

In PS I was able to zoom in on a pixel level and find that faint edge
of the lighthouse.  It took nearly 3 hours but I was able to
completely separate the background sky from the lighthouse, trees and
other foreground objects.  Putting it on a separate layer, I was able
to bring it down in value just below the lighthouse bright side, plus
add some gradients for edge and corner burning and so on.  After 15
years I finally got a good print from this neg I've always liked.  

Does this cross the line into digital illustration?  I really like the
print because it conveys the mood of the original scene.  To me it's a
miracle after a 15 year wait.  This is the sort of thing that thrills
me about digi printing.

Any other miracle stories?

Regards, - cj

Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> writes on 18 November 2002 at 10:52:23 -0800

 > Some people build an image from countless layers that they diddle
 > with endlessly.  I call that digital illustration. Do you want to
 > do that?

My layering never becomes even countably infinite, never mind
"countless".  Rarely more than a dozen.  

But most of my layers are adjustment layers with layer masks, rather
than content layers.  It lets me recover from mistakes much more
easily -- and lets me change my mind without starting over.  

I'll make a new content layer of something I'm going to attempt severe
retouching to.  I'll make a new content layer to hold most of the
retouch work.

Of course there's nothing whatsoever wrong with digital illustration.
I sometimes think I work in photography because I don't have the
skills to draw original work.
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...  /  http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
 John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
	   Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info

At 12:36 AM 11/18/2002 -0000, you wrote:
>> Anyone have opinions about sharpening during the scan vs. afterward 
>> in Photoshop? 
>
>I always sharpen in PS after the scan.  Not all pics require the same
>treatment, and some I only sharpen in certain areas and not others
>(such as landscapes where I sometimes leave the sky unsharpened), or
>in different amounts in diferent areas.  Until I get involved with the
>image in PS, with different layers, etc, I don't get a good feel for
>what is needed.
>
>Regards, - cj
>
Guys,
Clayton made a significant point that I overlooked - the No.1 variable
should be the type of picture being scanned. I've run into the problem with
having to soften areas and wished I'd thought ahead in my original scan to
leave off or lessen the sharpening. I guess yet another issue is your PS
work practice. Some people build an image from countless layers that they
diddle with endlessly.  I call that digital illustration. Do you want to do
that? 

AZ

Build a Lookaround!
The Lookaround Book.
http://www.panoramacamera.us

I usually scan for a single print size, so this is not an issue to me.
Besides, my comment "...much control..." was about the sharpening process
not the whole operation.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sintchak" <richard@...>
To: "Loris Medici" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:14 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Re: Sharpen scan or after?


> Sunday, November 17, 2002, 11:31:50 PM, Loris Medici wrote:
>
> LM> You have much more control over the process in Silverfast's Unsharp
Mask

> LM> Filter (use it in the expert mode)...
>
> But once you sharpen then you're stuck with that result from there on
> out.  What if you want to re-size for another use?  Scan again?  By
> definition of the time you are sharpening (at the scan) you have less
> control.

At 11:00 AM 11/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> writes on 18 November 2002 at 10:52:23 -0800
>
> > Some people build an image from countless layers that they diddle
> > with endlessly.  I call that digital illustration. Do you want to
> > do that?
>
>My layering never becomes even countably infinite, never mind
>"countless".  Rarely more than a dozen.  
>
>But most of my layers are adjustment layers with layer masks, rather
>than content layers.  It lets me recover from mistakes much more
>easily -- and lets me change my mind without starting over.  
>
>I'll make a new content layer of something I'm going to attempt severe
>retouching to.  I'll make a new content layer to hold most of the
>retouch work.
>
>Of course there's nothing whatsoever wrong with digital illustration.
>I sometimes think I work in photography because I don't have the
>skills to draw original work.
>-- 
>David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...  /  http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
> John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
>	   Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info

David,
I have no beef with illustration, illustrators or diddlers. Can't say I've
seen much computer-based illustration that knocked me out more than a so-so
drawing or painting. Digital printing  and PS has given me a huge amount of
satisfaction - far more than darkroom work ever did. I use simple
adjustments and try to keep 
a picture from dying on the operating table. It's a continuous learning
challenge the same as darkroom work was. 

AZ

Build a Lookaround!
The Lookaround Book.
http://www.panoramacamera.us