Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

I'm looking at CIS at MIS and at Inkjet Goodies. There is a $100 price 
difference between the 2 and I  can't find the reason for it. Anyone 
have an answer?  Of course, I'm open to other suggestions as well.

Thanks!
Scott Jolliff

I have set up and used three of the MIS units (2 B&W and 1 color) and have been very pleased. The principle is the same in all of them so I guess there might be some difference in quality of materials or workmanship. That said, the MIS units have worked for me and worked well. 

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Scott Jolliff [mailto:scott@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 6:30 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Which Continuous Ink System?


  Hi,

  I'm looking at CIS at MIS and at Inkjet Goodies. There is a $100 price 
  difference between the 2 and I  can't find the reason for it. Anyone 
  have an answer?  Of course, I'm open to other suggestions as well.

  Thanks!
  Scott Jolliff


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Scott Jolliff <scott@j...> 
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking at CIS at MIS and at Inkjet Goodies. There is a $100 
price 
> difference between the 2 and I  can't find the reason for it. 
Anyone 
> have an answer?  Of course, I'm open to other suggestions as well.
> 
> Thanks!
> Scott Jolliff

Scott, I had no idea that there is such a large difference in 
price.  I chose the Inkjet Goodies because it is a Nomorecarts made 
product with some modifications.  The bottles are rectangular, not 
round.  There is a hole drilled in the shoulder of each bottle so 
that the tube never has to be withdrawn.  There is a crimper which 
is close to the shoulder so that when you add more ink or make some 
change, it is very easy to deal with.  The pump which establishes 
the vacuum is foolproof.  I had imagined that setting up one of 
these systems would be difficult and found that the Inkjetgoodies 
system was so easy to deal with and not messy.  It hasn't given me 
any promlems in 6 months which included changing from MIS to Gen4 
black ink.  Greg has provided 1st class support.  I plan to get 
another one when I get a color printer.

Andy

Get the CIS. more elegant design, easier to set up, the cadillac of CIS systems.

Jerry

Scott Jolliff wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking at CIS at MIS and at Inkjet Goodies. There is a $100 price
> difference between the 2 and I  can't find the reason for it. Anyone
> have an answer?  Of course, I'm open to other suggestions as well.
> 
> Thanks!
> Scott Jolliff
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry,

Can you please be a bit more specific about why the CIS is better than either 
the CFS from MIS or the InkjetGoodies bulk feed system? Is this just a matter 
of personal preference, or are there empirical differences?

The bulk feed system does seem to have some nice improvements, for 
example it comes with the acrylic holder, which is sold separately from the 
CIS. And the tubes don't stick out through the caps of the bottles, which I'm 
assuming means you're less likely to get air in them?

I don't have one of these systems yet, and I'm mainly interested in finding 
something that a) isn't going to ruin my 1160 printer, b) is going to print as well 
as pre-filled carts, and c) is cost-effective (ruining my printer or some 
expensive paper would not be cost-effective). Overall, I'm a bit hesitant, 
because these systems seem like they can be a major pain when something 
goes wrong. On the other hand, maybe it only seems like they malfunction a 
lot because we tend to hear about people's difficulties here on the list. I'd be 
curious to know whether there's a happy silent majority out there, and what 
they're using. (MARTIN W: How about a poll on this?)

Also, from what I could gather in terms of cost, all the systems -- CFS, CIS, are 
in the same ballpark: $125-150. I didn't see anything at MIS that costs $100 
more than the $125 bulk feed system at InkjetGoodies, but maybe I was 
looking on the wrong page.

Btw, I'm not a big fan of Cadillacs, personally... :-)

Peter


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Get the CIS. more elegant design, easier to set up, the cadillac of CIS 
systems.

I can not find a CFS/CIS (whatever) at inkjetgoodies.com   .
Do they still sell one? or did I just miss it?
They do have this one in there system
Camel Ink System for Epson  but this is
a clearance item from sometime back.
Thanks
Bill Boy
On Thursday, November 21, 2002, at 10:47  AM, Andrew Unger wrote:

> Inkjetgoodies
Bill Boy
bboy@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Bill Boy <bboy@c...> wrote:
> I can not find a CFS/CIS (whatever) at inkjetgoodies.com   .
> Do they still sell one? or did I just miss it?

They call it a "bulk feed system" ... here's the link:

inkjetgoodies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=IG&
Category_Code=CISG

Had a brain storm and actually thought to ask Greg @ Ink Jet Goodies. 
Here's the difference according to Greg, the CFS requires regular ship 
resetting (about as often as one would have to change ink cartridges) 
and the CIS never needs resetting. The 2 'always full' chips in the CIS 
cost Greg $50 ea.. For my needs I settled on the CIS. One of my biggest 
frustrations with cartridges is that I can't start a big print run and 
go to bed without one of the ink wells running dry during the night and 
the CIS solves this. The CIS is also made from "heavier plastic".

Thanks to all who offered their input.

Scott Jolliff
http://www.jolliffphoto.com

Cross-posted from the Piezo list:

Yesterday I had a chance to try Peter Baumbach's adjustment curve for 
PiezoTone Warm Neutral inks (original black), printing on Hahnemuhle 
Photo Rag and the Piezo 6 driver on an 1160 with a Nomorecarts CIS.

Along with Siobhan, we had both seen a tonal imbalance, with the 
lighter midtones (magenta position) poorly melding with the lower 
mids (cyan position). The problem was clearly visible on the 21 step 
ramp (as visible "steps" in the smooth ramp) and in images, where it 
is seen as a coarse graininess in the 80-50% range where the two inks 
presumably overlap. It was not responsive to gamma or ink density 
adjustments. My suspicion was that the the magenta position ink was 
too light and/or the cyan position ink was too dark. Ominously, this 
recalled the tonal shifts that plagued the original Piezo inks (the 
DDS, or "greenies" problems) in a less severe manner.

Peter's curves smoothed out the tonal transitions nicely, indicating 
that whether this is a bad profile problem or not, it can be 
addressed by adding a correction curve. In effect, Peter's adjustment 
lightens and increases the "slope" in the "cyan" portion of the curve 
(85-60%), and darkens the tones above 50%. There is a "kink" in the 
curve at around 50%.
In my set-up, I had to increase the severity of both displacements to 
get both local smoothness and overall light/dark balance to get a 
good match to the screen. While the curve corrects the tonal shift, 
the overlaid gray inks in the lower midtones still appear "dotty" or 
grainy.

My set-up may have needed the stronger correction because the inks 
were installed shortly before the concern for the warm-fade of the 
PiezoTone K ink. I have used it only for occasional proofing since, 
while waiting for the (still back-ordered) Museum Black. My concern 
is that there may be some "settling-out" of the gray tone pigments in 
the liquid if it stands for extended periods.

Although several have posted on the Piezolist, there has been no 
response from ConeTech/IJM that I am aware of. I have checked to see 
if there were newer profiles at the IJM website, but the Piezo update 
page link no longer works. I will print some tests and send them up 
to Vermont this weekend.

For the moment, I am swirling the bottles and printing purge patterns 
daily in hope of seeing improvement.

-Bruce



Peter wrote:

>Siobhan,
>
>I am not shure if we are talking about the same thing but I also notice an
>abrupt shift in the 50% to 80% tonal range with PiezoTone Warm Neutral inks.
>I noticed it especially with skin tones. The transitions from the lighter to
>the darker skin tones looked rather clumpsy. I would call it posterization.
>Some time ago I posted it here entitled "grain drives piezotone mad" because
>I first thought it was an interference effect between grainy negatives and
>the piezo driver. But meanwhile I am quite shure that the grain only
>pronounces the effect and that the piezo profiles may not be perfect for the
>new ink. I sent examples to Cone Tech support but do have a solution until
>now.
>
>In order to find a practical solution I printed the 21-step image, measured
>the densities of each step and calculated a correction curve that linearizes
>the output. I apply this correction curve in PS just before I print with
>Piezo and this way the bad looking effect is gone.
>
>Peter
>
>
>Siobhan wrote
>-----------------------------------------------
>Bruce,
>You have gotten way too technical for me but in reply to paragraph 1, I have
>been seeing "dots"  in the lower mid-tones.  The shift in the tonal range is
>more abrupt.  Awaiting the solution. Cheers.  Siobhan
>on 11/13/02 7:27 PM, Bruce Kinch at pvx@... wrote:
>


-- 
Bruce C. Kinch
Associate Professor of Photography
The Art Institute of Boston at Lesley University