Digital BW, The Print

I have been using the 7600 with ultrachrome matte black for 
several months now. I soon realized that even with custom 
profiles, I was never going to get neutral blacks so I purchased 
ImagePrint software for the Mac, which is a little clunky, but it 
works and their tech support is great. It delivers neutral blacks 
with the possibility of adding "toning".  In side by side 
comparisons with the Epson RIP, even the color performance is 
better with IP - more subtlety and depth in shadows, particularly.

I have watched this message group for a while. There are those 
of you who love to tinker and fuss and in this you will find 
happiness. But for those of you who are more interested in the 
image I will give you this advice: learn to use the technology to 
your advantage.  Every printing process has its strengths and 
shortcomings, but you can usually take a good process and turn 
what you might consider a liability into an asset. in this case I am 
referring to the "softness" of the Ultrachrome B&W inkset.  I can 
make prints with this process that use a full and delineated tonal 
range that rival those beautiful contact prints from 8x10 negatives 
printed on number 2 paper done in the 40's and 50's.  They are 
perhaps a touch "softer" in the deepest blacks than a print made 
on a glossy paper - but they have exquisite range and depth and 
very beautiful print color which I have never been able to achieve 
in a silver print.

I have used a semi-matte surface silver paper for some years 
now which delivers beautiful, soft prints which have a dmax 
about the same (perhaps even a touch less?)  as what I get now 
with the ultrachrome inks on Hahn Photorag paper. So I am 
delighted with this combination.  the paper does have a small 
tendency to flake off tiny little spots but since the inks are not 
damaged by water, you can spot it with spotone like an ordinary 
print.  On a 20x24" print you might find one or at most two little 
tiny little spots.  I spray the prints with a fixative like that used for 
charcoal drawings and that prevents damage by scuffing.

The color prints are unrivaled by and are superior to ANY color 
commercial process in depth, color range, color accuracy, 
saturation, subtlety and I think permanence.  I have returned to 
working in color because of this printer after years of absence.  I 
stopped working in color when the Evercolor pigment transfer 
process died.  Only these epson prints rival those evercolor 
prints.

For three months, I have had B&W and color epson prints 
hanging in a window where they get our bright Middle Eastern 
Israeli sun all day long and they have not shown the slightest 
hint of fading.  Cibachrome prints will start to fade under these 
conditions in around 40 days. I'm using my eyes, not a 
densitometer.  This is not a scientific test, but it's the test I've 
been using for years.

I did also try the glossy papers and found that the impression of 
depth was just as great with photorag and I like the surface 
better, but if you take a really good glossy paper like Legion 
Photo Gloss you can get results that rival the silvery quality of 
Cibachrome without the color casts, crossover and contrast.  I'd 
like to get the 2200 just to make smaller glossy prints.

That's all I have to say on the subject.

Neil Folberg 
www.neilfolberg.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "neilhfolberg" 
<folberg@n...> wrote:
<snip>

 There are those 
> of you who love to tinker and fuss and in this you will find 
> happiness. But for those of you who are more interested in the 
> image I will give you this advice: learn to use the technology to 
> your advantage.


Wise words. I have been banging my head against my printers for over 
two years just trying to keep the ink stable and minimise clogs. I am 
ready to give up: I just found an 2200 through a retail store friend 
contact and probably will go IP5 as I want to print, not fuss more.


  Every printing process has its strengths and 
> shortcomings, but you can usually take a good process and turn 
> what you might consider a liability into an asset. in this case I am 
> referring to the "softness" of the Ultrachrome B&W inkset.  I can 
> make prints with this process that use a full and delineated tonal 
> range that rival those beautiful contact prints from 8x10 negatives 
> printed on number 2 paper done in the 40's and 50's.  They are 
> perhaps a touch "softer" in the deepest blacks than a print made 
> on a glossy paper - but they have exquisite range and depth and 
> very beautiful print color which I have never been able to achieve 
> in a silver print.

Do you have an opinion comparing an UC matte print to a MIS or PT 
matte print?

<snip>

  as what I get now 
> with the ultrachrome inks on Hahn Photorag paper. So I am 
> delighted with this combination.  the paper does have a small 
> tendency to flake off tiny little spots but since the inks are not 
> damaged by water, you can spot it with spotone like an ordinary 
> print.  On a 20x24" print you might find one or at most two little 
> tiny little spots.  I spray the prints with a fixative like that 
used for 
> charcoal drawings and that prevents damage by scuffing.

I had more flaking problems then this with photorag. I used William 
Turner more and this was also bad. But I must add that the humidity 
here is low. What happens after you spot print and frame it, only to 
discover that it flakes more hanging on the wall? Or does the fixative 
prevent all future flaking? What brand spray do you use in that event?

> 
> The color prints are unrivaled by and are superior to ANY color 
> commercial process in depth, color range, color accuracy, 
> saturation, subtlety and I think permanence.  I have returned to 
> working in color because of this printer after years of absence.  I 
> stopped working in color when the Evercolor pigment transfer 
> process died.  Only these epson prints rival those evercolor 
> prints.

I've been thinking of doing some b&w prints with small areas of spot 
color added which IP5 folks tell me is possible IF I run IP5 to print 
RGB.
Jim H.


> Neil Folberg 
> www.neilfolberg.com

> Do you have an opinion comparing an UC matte print to a MIS 
or PT 
> matte print?
NO - I'm not familiar with these.
> 
On a 20x24" print you might find one or at most two little 
> > tiny little spots.  I spray the prints with a fixative like that 
> used for 
> > charcoal drawings and that prevents damage by scuffing.
> 
> I had more flaking problems then this with photorag. I used 
William 
> Turner more and this was also bad. But I must add that the 
humidity 
> here is low. What happens after you spot print and frame it, 
only to 
> discover that it flakes more hanging on the wall? Or does the 
fixative 
> prevent all future flaking? 

I haven't had the prints hanging yet, but I have been keeping 
them in a portfolio case and handling them a lot and they haven't 
flaked.

>What brand spray do you use in that event?

What I can get here - Grumbacher Myston Workable Fixative from 
the U.S.

> I've been thinking of doing some b&w prints with small areas 
of spot 
> color added which IP5 folks tell me is possible IF I run IP5 to 
print 
> RGB.

It will work fine - you get perfectly neutral B&W prints using the 
RGB profiles in IP, all you lose is the "toner" control.

 Neil Folberg 
www.neilfolberg.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "neilhfolberg" 
<folberg@n...> wrote:
> 
<snip>

> > I had more flaking problems then this with photorag. I used 
> William 
> > Turner more and this was also bad. But I must add that the 
> humidity 
> > here is low. What happens after you spot print and frame it, 
> only to 
> > discover that it flakes more hanging on the wall? Or does the 
> fixative 
> > prevent all future flaking? 
> 
> I haven't had the prints hanging yet, but I have been keeping 
> them in a portfolio case and handling them a lot and they haven't 
> flaked.


I guess this can be representative of putting print through it's 
"paces", flake-wise then. The thing about being behind a frame is that 
you'd have to disassemble it to respot it. And worse than this, if you 
used plexi instead of glass, the static charge buildup might 
contribute to flaking. I put Eclipse behind conservation clear (UV) 
glass and usually don't have problems.

Btw, I didn't mean to give the impression that I used a LOT of Photo 
Rag, just printed a few samples and gave up. My flaking experiences 
were much more with William Turner...but still both papers are made by 
same company, and my photo Rag samples had flaking.


> > I've been thinking of doing some b&w prints with small areas 
> of spot 
> > color added which IP5 folks tell me is possible IF I run IP5 to 
> print 
> > RGB.
> 
> It will work fine - you get perfectly neutral B&W prints using the 
> RGB profiles in IP, all you lose is the "toner" control.

Thank you- when buying a new printer, other's observations on how good 
it works are crucial. Esp as with IP5 included, this gets pricy for a 
desktop.
Jim H.

> 
>  Neil Folberg 
> www.neilfolberg.com