Digital BW, The Print

THe 1280 can make the finest prints of any inkjet printer on the market.
If you use archival inks, they will outlast any dye based inks. If you
get a CIS system your ink costs will be very low, about 80 percent lower
than if you use individual cartridges.

Jerry

Duncan Staples wrote:

> 
> Hello:
> 
> I am new to the group but not new to digital photography or B&W
> imaging.  I am considering purchasing a new lower end printer, either
> the Epson 1270/1280 or the Canon S9000.  I would appreciate any
> feedback from the group.  I will be doing both color and b&w.  The
> Canon is much faster (speed is important) and the inks are cheaper
> but the issues surrounding fading have not been made clear yet.  Does
> anyone have any advice or personal experience with either? Thanks in
> advance.
> 
> Duncan Staples
> St. Louis, MO
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> THe 1280 can make the finest prints of any inkjet printer on the market.
> If you use archival inks, they will outlast any dye based inks. If you
> get a CIS system your ink costs will be very low, about 80 percent lower
> than if you use individual cartridges.

A friend who works at a local pro store did some comparisons between the
1280 and the Canon S9000. Almost all of the photographers who saw the Canon
samples picked those as being better. The difference between the 2200 and
Canon was much closer. Still, most photographers gave a slight edge to the
Canon prints.

Epson printers are certainly better supported, but they're not the only game
in town anymore. The Canon is more than twice as fast as the Epson and the
print quality is just as good if not better. For proofs and portfolio prints
the Canon is certainly worth considering.

Any info on best paper to use and information on how much fading to 
expect?

Thanks,
Duncan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Moreno Polloni" <mp@d...> 
wrote:
> > THe 1280 can make the finest prints of any inkjet printer on the 
market.
> > If you use archival inks, they will outlast any dye based inks. 
If you
> > get a CIS system your ink costs will be very low, about 80 
percent lower
> > than if you use individual cartridges.
> 
> A friend who works at a local pro store did some comparisons 
between the
> 1280 and the Canon S9000. Almost all of the photographers who saw 
the Canon
> samples picked those as being better. The difference between the 
2200 and
> Canon was much closer. Still, most photographers gave a slight edge 
to the
> Canon prints.
> 
> Epson printers are certainly better supported, but they're not the 
only game
> in town anymore. The Canon is more than twice as fast as the Epson 
and the
> print quality is just as good if not better. For proofs and 
portfolio prints
> the Canon is certainly worth considering.

Duncan Staples wrote:

>Any info on best paper to use and information on how much fading to 
>expect?
>
>  
>
Since I own and use a 1270, a 1280, AND an S9000, I'll bite..

Lets start with this....

The S9000 is about 3 times the speed of the 1280 (especially obvious on 
borderless 13x19 images)...

The S9000, the 1270, and 1280 AFAIK use the same colorants in their 
inks... (The carriers are VERY different though, with the Canons using a 
significantly lower viscosity ink.. More on that below)

Therefore, fading issues should be the same... Watch out for fugitive 
cyan with either the EPSON or Canon OEM inks...

In the EPSONs, you can use pigment based ink offerings from  MIS and 
MediaStreet.  

With the Canons, the lower viscosity and small printhead nozzles make it 
not possible with current carriers and pigments.  The carrier just won't 
keep the pigments in a stable suspension.. (pigments don't go into 
solution, they are suspended -- they can't dissolve)

However,  BOTH the Canons AND the EPSONs can use Lyson dye-based inksets 
with a  life multiple times that of the OEM inks...  
If one chooses the Fotonics set one gets a larger gamut, with the 
Lysonics set one gets even longer life but a reduced gamut in the reds..

Media issues... Well, that depends upon the inkset one uses.,.. Using 
OEM inks and glossy or luster media, I wouldn't sell the images..

With Lyson inks, you can use glossy or luster media safely.  But, they 
tend to suffer from metamerism on some non-Lyson matte media.

With the pigment inksets,  you will have some problems with using glossy 
or luster media..  Of course there is a new photo black available from 
MIS that should do away with that problem...

There are CIS/CFS systems for the 1270/1280.. It's still a few more 
weeks until  systems for the S9000  (that I would consider using) will 
be available.

OTOH, you can replace the printhead on an S9000 yourself..  I've done it 
under 3 minutes.. On EPSONs you can't even consider that yourself..

Here's what I do...

1270:  MIS VM &  MIS VM Sepia (I may add Gen 5 or the new UltraChrome 
clones)
1280:  Lyson - Lysonics & Small Gamut
S9000:  Fotonics
 

Keith

 

"Just some guy," and founder of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Keith -

Have you been able to obtain a separate S9000 printhead to swap in and 
out?  One of the reasons I bought this printer was for the theoretical 
ability to have both color and monochrome inksets in their own printheads, 
and switch them into the printer as needed.  But Canon says they won't sell 
the printhead separately, they'll only exchange one in case of warranty 
service, and they want the old one back first.

I do love the printer, even with its OEM inks (I've been experimenting with 
refilling carts using Inkjet Goodies ink as a cost saving effort.  It is 
cheaper, but I rarely insert a new cart without having to run several 
cleaning cycles to get all the nozzles firing again, something I virtually 
never had to do with the Canon brand carts.)

Cheers,
Kip

At 12/4/2002 10:10 PM -0500, Keith wrote, in part:



>OTOH, you can replace the printhead on an S9000 yourself..  I've done it
>under 3 minutes.. On EPSONs you can't even consider that yourself..

Yes, but you can't get a CIS for a canon printer, and the Canon inks are
rated to only 25 years, on CANON paper. I've seen a few Epson 2200
prints, and they aren't any better than the 1280.

Jerry



Moreno Polloni wrote:

> 
> > THe 1280 can make the finest prints of any inkjet printer on the market.
> > If you use archival inks, they will outlast any dye based inks. If you
> > get a CIS system your ink costs will be very low, about 80 percent lower
> > than if you use individual cartridges.
> 
> A friend who works at a local pro store did some comparisons between the
> 1280 and the Canon S9000. Almost all of the photographers who saw the Canon
> samples picked those as being better. The difference between the 2200 and
> Canon was much closer. Still, most photographers gave a slight edge to the
> Canon prints.
> 
> Epson printers are certainly better supported, but they're not the only game
> in town anymore. The Canon is more than twice as fast as the Epson and the
> print quality is just as good if not better. For proofs and portfolio prints
> the Canon is certainly worth considering.
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Eclipse Satine is a great, 100 percent rag, acid free, pH neutral paper,
pure white, nicely textured on one side and smooth on the other,
printable on either side, and not too expensive.  Any of the Hahnemuhle
papers are great. Either the MIS archival color or VM hex inks are
great, as well as Generations 4 from Media Street. Rated to 100 years by
Kodak at RIT.

Jerry


Duncan Staples wrote:

> 
> Any info on best paper to use and information on how much fading to
> expect?
> 
> Thanks,
> Duncan
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Moreno Polloni" <mp@d...>
> wrote:
> > > THe 1280 can make the finest prints of any inkjet printer on the
> market.
> > > If you use archival inks, they will outlast any dye based inks.
> If you
> > > get a CIS system your ink costs will be very low, about 80
> percent lower
> > > than if you use individual cartridges.
> >
> > A friend who works at a local pro store did some comparisons
> between the
> > 1280 and the Canon S9000. Almost all of the photographers who saw
> the Canon
> > samples picked those as being better. The difference between the
> 2200 and
> > Canon was much closer. Still, most photographers gave a slight edge
> to the
> > Canon prints.
> >
> > Epson printers are certainly better supported, but they're not the
> only game
> > in town anymore. The Canon is more than twice as fast as the Epson
> and the
> > print quality is just as good if not better. For proofs and
> portfolio prints
> > the Canon is certainly worth considering.
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> Yes, but you can't get a CIS for a canon printer, and the Canon inks are
> rated to only 25 years, on CANON paper.

Yes, I know all that. Not everyone wants to bother with a CIS, and for many
photographers, short term print quality and print speed are far more
important than having a print last for more than 25 years.

Jerry Olson wrote:

>Yes, but you can't get a CIS for a canon printer, and the Canon inks are
>rated to only 25 years, on CANON paper. I've seen a few Epson 2200
>prints, and they aren't any better than the 1280.
>
>
>  
>
InkJetGoodies, and Lyson are about to release CIS's for the S9000..

MediaStreet's was just waiting on having the instruction booklet 
finished up..

So, although you cannot get a CIS TODAY, it won't be long at all..
Keith

 

"Just some guy," and founder of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That takes care of one big problem, but will the Canon do 44 inch
panoramas? 

Jerry



"Editor P.O.V. Image Service" wrote:

> 
> Jerry Olson wrote:
> 
> >Yes, but you can't get a CIS for a canon printer, and the Canon inks are
> >rated to only 25 years, on CANON paper. I've seen a few Epson 2200
> >prints, and they aren't any better than the 1280.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> InkJetGoodies, and Lyson are about to release CIS's for the S9000..
> 
> MediaStreet's was just waiting on having the instruction booklet
> finished up..
> 
> So, although you cannot get a CIS TODAY, it won't be long at all..
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> "Just some guy," and founder of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
> Publications), at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
> 
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
> guys"
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 10:57:56AM -0600, Jerry Olson wrote:
> Yes, but you can't get a CIS for a canon printer, and the Canon inks are
> rated to only 25 years, on CANON paper. I've seen a few Epson 2200
> prints, and they aren't any better than the 1280.
> 

There is a CIS equivalent (called UltraFlo) available for these printers
at http://www.weink.com.

Tony

> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> Moreno Polloni wrote:
> > 
> > > THe 1280 can make the finest prints of any inkjet printer on the market.
> > > If you use archival inks, they will outlast any dye based inks. If you
> > > get a CIS system your ink costs will be very low, about 80 percent lower
> > > than if you use individual cartridges.
> > 
> > A friend who works at a local pro store did some comparisons between the
> > 1280 and the Canon S9000. Almost all of the photographers who saw the Canon
> > samples picked those as being better. The difference between the 2200 and
> > Canon was much closer. Still, most photographers gave a slight edge to the
> > Canon prints.
> > 
> > Epson printers are certainly better supported, but they're not the only game
> > in town anymore. The Canon is more than twice as fast as the Epson and the
> > print quality is just as good if not better. For proofs and portfolio prints
> > the Canon is certainly worth considering.
> > 

-- 
Tony Terlecki
ajt@...
Running Debian/GNU 3.0 Linux

I appreciate everyone's feedback.  I have decided to order an S9000 
and give it a go.  I will report my findings back to the group.  
Thanks again for all the feedback.

Duncan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> That takes care of one big problem, but will the Canon do 44 inch
> panoramas? 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" wrote:
> > 
> > Jerry Olson wrote:
> > 
> > >Yes, but you can't get a CIS for a canon printer, and the Canon 
inks are
> > >rated to only 25 years, on CANON paper. I've seen a few Epson 
2200
> > >prints, and they aren't any better than the 1280.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > InkJetGoodies, and Lyson are about to release CIS's for the 
S9000..
> > 
> > MediaStreet's was just waiting on having the instruction booklet
> > finished up..
> > 
> > So, although you cannot get a CIS TODAY, it won't be long at all..
> > Keith
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Just some guy," and founder of the Multiverse's largest EPSON 
printer
> > User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
> > Publications), at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
> > 
> > "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks 
together
> > guys"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Duncan,

> I appreciate everyone's feedback.  I have decided to order an S9000 
> and give it a go.  I will report my findings back to the group.  

Please do keep us posted.  I've been following this with interest and
am eager to learn what you find out.

Regards, - cj

Duncan Staples wrote:

>I appreciate everyone's feedback.  I have decided to order an S9000 
>and give it a go.  I will report my findings back to the group.  
>Thanks again for all the feedback.
>
>Duncan
>
>  
>
Once you get it (or before) feel free to drop in here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers

The group is brand-new but growing quickly..
Keith

 

"Just some guy," and founder of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]