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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:29 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI


> Jerry,
>
> On a similar, but not the same, note:  Using my D100 digital SLR, I
> have found the 12 x 18 prints (360 dpi, up-sized in PS in 5%
> increments) to be more convicing than the same image printed at 6 x
> 9.  This is viewing at arm-length, not nose-to-paper.  I find it
> strange, but I have not dug deeper to find out why!  I am going to
> try printing the 6 x 9 images at 2880 dpi to see if the prints
> get "better".

The drying time for the ink between each stroke of the printer is longer
when the print is larger. The chance ink will bleed gets much higher on a
6x9 print. The 2880 dpi shouldn't chance that or make it worse as (to my
surprise) the higher the dpi the more ink is used in Epsons. There's one
thing that slows down the printer more or less relative to the image size
and that is the time the head has to stop and reverse its direction between
strokes. If you place four 6x9 images next to one another and print them in
the same way you printed one 12x18 image and you still get better quality
for the last then you can throw my theory in the waste basket. There will be
detail lost on a 6x9 and viewed at arm-length but I presume you didn't mean
that.

Ernst

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Alessandro Pardi

Jerry,
 
I think it could simply be because at smaller sizes the fine detail of the
image is, well, smaller, so it needs more resolution from the printer, and
the 2880 vs. 1440 can make a difference.
The bigger the print, the less important the printer quality: I think that
for each scanned image/printer there are two threshold print sizes: one
below which the printer resolution is the limiting factor, and one after
which the image resolution is the limiting factor.
 
Alessandro Pardi
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Dinkla [mailto:E.Dinkla@...]
Sent: giovedì 5 dicembre 2002 9:39
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI



----- Original Message -----
From: "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:29 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI


> Jerry,
>
> On a similar, but not the same, note:  Using my D100 digital SLR, I
> have found the 12 x 18 prints (360 dpi, up-sized in PS in 5%
> increments) to be more convicing than the same image printed at 6 x
> 9.  This is viewing at arm-length, not nose-to-paper.  I find it
> strange, but I have not dug deeper to find out why!  I am going to
> try printing the 6 x 9 images at 2880 dpi to see if the prints
> get "better".

The drying time for the ink between each stroke of the printer is longer
when the print is larger. The chance ink will bleed gets much higher on a
6x9 print. The 2880 dpi shouldn't chance that or make it worse as (to my
surprise) the higher the dpi the more ink is used in Epsons. There's one
thing that slows down the printer more or less relative to the image size
and that is the time the head has to stop and reverse its direction between
strokes. If you place four 6x9 images next to one another and print them in
the same way you printed one 12x18 image and you still get better quality
for the last then you can throw my theory in the waste basket. There will be
detail lost on a 6x9 and viewed at arm-length but I presume you didn't mean
that.

Ernst


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Bob Frost

Shilesh,

2880 dpi is recommended for printing smaller prints; the detail in the
prints is smaller and therefore smaller dots placed more accurately will
bring out that detail. I find that 2880 also gives much smoother prints at
18x12 under a loupe, but whether that is visible to the naked eye at normal
viewing distances is debatable.

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@...>
>
> > On a similar, but not the same, note:  Using my D100 digital SLR, I
> > have found the 12 x 18 prints (360 dpi, up-sized in PS in 5%
> > increments) to be more convicing than the same image printed at 6 x
> > 9.  This is viewing at arm-length, not nose-to-paper.  I find it
> > strange, but I have not dug deeper to find out why!  I am going to
> > try printing the 6 x 9 images at 2880 dpi to see if the prints
> > get "better".

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Jerry Olson

Shilesh,

For some reason, and I haven't a clue as to why, the bigger prints,
(12x18) always seem to look sharper than smaller prints.  In fact 4x5
inch prints never look very sharp. But at 2880, they look a LOT sharper
than the other dpi settings. I use Fred Miranda's stairstep filter to
upsize my files. I usually don't enlarge more than 1.5 times the
original size, and I don't notice any quality loss at all.

Jerry
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On a similar, but not the same, note:  Using my D100 digital SLR, I
> have found the 12 x 18 prints (360 dpi, up-sized in PS in 5%
> increments) to be more convicing than the same image printed at 6 x
> 9.  This is viewing at arm-length, not nose-to-paper.  I find it
> strange, but I have not dug deeper to find out why!  I am going to
> try printing the 6 x 9 images at 2880 dpi to see if the prints
> get "better".
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Just thought I'd toss this out.  I've spent the day making all
> sorts of
> > different test prints using many different settings.  When making
> > smaller prints, say in the 6x8 range or smaller, for some reason,
> 2880
> > DPI is MUCH sharper than the 720 or 1440 setting.  Its like putting
> an
> > apochromatic lens on your enlarger.  Especially if you have
> extremely
> > fine detail like grass. When I first got the printer, I tried 2880
> DPI a
> > couple of times (on 12x18 prints), but only noticed a tiny
> improvement
> > over 1440. But for the smaller prints it is much sharper. I have no
> idea
> > why this should be so.
> >
> > Jerry
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Jerry Olson

Ernst, 

If the drying time is a factor, you'd think the ink would really bleed
in a small print at 2880 DPI, as it wouldn't have much time to dry
before the next pass of the printhead. But the small prints are
definitely sharper than they are at 1440 or 720 (Least sharp). I haven't
tried printing many small prints on a large sheet. I'll give it a go
next time I'm testing.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Jerry Olson

That makes good sense Alessandro. Sounds logical. I was very surprised
to see how much sharper the small prints actually were!

Jerry
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I think it could simply be because at smaller sizes the fine detail of the
> image is, well, smaller, so it needs more resolution from the printer, and
> the 2880 vs. 1440 can make a difference.
> The bigger the print, the less important the printer quality: I think that
> for each scanned image/printer there are two threshold print sizes: one
> below which the printer resolution is the limiting factor, and one after
> which the image resolution is the limiting factor.
> 
> A

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Jerry Olson

Andrew, In the case of small prints though, the 2280 is most definitely
sharper and more detailed.

jerry



"Shire,Stanley" wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Andrew:
> Is this true with all of the 2880 Epson printers?
> In the case of, lets say, the 2200 (a printer which would be used by the
> \ufffdhigher-end, higher-expectation\ufffd folks) \ufffdwhy doesn\ufffdt Epson make this
> kind of information more readily available?
> 
> Stan Shire
> Associate Professor/Department Chair
> Photographic Imaging
> Community College of Philadelphia
> Adobe Photoshop 6 A.C.E.
> Author: Hands On Photoshop 7: Tutorial Workshops
> 
> 215 751-8320
> sshire@...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Rodney [mailto:andrew@...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:54 AM
> To: Digital B&W
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI
> 
> One thing many people don1t know (and Epson may not make perfectly
> clear) is
> that when you print at 2880, you NO LONGER get variable ink droplet
> delivery! In most cases, 1440 will produce a more preferred print simply
> because the variable droplet size really helps smooth things out
> depending
> on the image you are printing.
> 
> Andrew Rodney
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same page.
> 
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> keep them short.
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> header.
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> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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> 
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> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
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> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
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RE: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Jim Panzer

Can I ask what types of paper people are using to print at 2880?  Like
someone else mentioned, I used mat paper but had to set the paper setting to
something else to get 2880 as an option and the print was much lighter?
Thanks.

Jim
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Frost [mailto:bobfrost@...] 
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:44 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

Shilesh,

2880 dpi is recommended for printing smaller prints; the detail in the
prints is smaller and therefore smaller dots placed more accurately will
bring out that detail. I find that 2880 also gives much smoother prints at
18x12 under a loupe, but whether that is visible to the naked eye at normal
viewing distances is debatable.

Bob Frost.



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@...>
>
> > On a similar, but not the same, note:  Using my D100 digital SLR, I
> > have found the 12 x 18 prints (360 dpi, up-sized in PS in 5%
> > increments) to be more convicing than the same image printed at 6 x
> > 9.  This is viewing at arm-length, not nose-to-paper.  I find it
> > strange, but I have not dug deeper to find out why!  I am going to
> > try printing the 6 x 9 images at 2880 dpi to see if the prints
> > get "better".


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
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- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 


 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-05 by Jerry Olson

I use EAM or Eclipse, or Royal Riviera Paper, and the photo paper
setting in the media setting dialogue box. That will allow 2880, and The
results are identical with the heavyweight matte setting I normally
would use.

Jerry

Jim Panzer wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Can I ask what types of paper people are using to print at 2880?  Like
> someone else mentioned, I used mat paper but had to set the paper setting to
> something else to get 2880 as an option and the print was much lighter?
> Thanks.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Frost [mailto:bobfrost@...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:44 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI
> 
> Shilesh,
> 
> 2880 dpi is recommended for printing smaller prints; the detail in the
> prints is smaller and therefore smaller dots placed more accurately will
> bring out that detail. I find that 2880 also gives much smoother prints at
> 18x12 under a loupe, but whether that is visible to the naked eye at normal
> viewing distances is debatable.
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@...>
> >
> > > On a similar, but not the same, note:  Using my D100 digital SLR, I
> > > have found the 12 x 18 prints (360 dpi, up-sized in PS in 5%
> > > increments) to be more convicing than the same image printed at 6 x
> > > 9.  This is viewing at arm-length, not nose-to-paper.  I find it
> > > strange, but I have not dug deeper to find out why!  I am going to
> > > try printing the 6 x 9 images at 2880 dpi to see if the prints
> > > get "better".
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-06 by Alessandro Pardi

Jerry,
 
that's something to remember if you want to print small! I have a 1160 and
like to print A3, but if for any reason I need to print at postcard size
I'll reconsider the 2880 family.
 
Alessandro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
Sent: giovedì 5 dicembre 2002 18:24
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI


That makes good sense Alessandro. Sounds logical. I was very surprised
to see how much sharper the small prints actually were!

Jerry


> I think it could simply be because at smaller sizes the fine detail of the
> image is, well, smaller, so it needs more resolution from the printer, and
> the 2880 vs. 1440 can make a difference.
> The bigger the print, the less important the printer quality: I think that
> for each scanned image/printer there are two threshold print sizes: one
> below which the printer resolution is the limiting factor, and one after
> which the image resolution is the limiting factor.
> 
> A

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 

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unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
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- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why print at 2880 DPI

2002-12-07 by Bob Frost

Jim,

I've used Premium Glossy, Colorlife, and Photo Paper; they all have 2880
settings. Heavyweight Matte only has a 1440 setting. If you use one of the
other paper settings to get 2880 on HWM, then you will get different ink
loads and profiles - not just different dpi.

bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Panzer" <jimp@...>

>
> Can I ask what types of paper people are using to print at 2880?  Like
> someone else mentioned, I used mat paper but had to set the paper setting
to
> something else to get 2880 as an option and the print was much lighter?
> Thanks.

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