Digital BW, The Print

Hi Andrew.  I have made a couple comparison prints between 2880 and 1440 
DPI using Hextone inks, and the 2880
was just a hair sharper and smoother. Couldn't see ANY dot pattern in 
either print. Yes, it does appear to be a marketing thing,
but I still feel the 2880 print was just a hair better. Of course we are 
picking nits here. And yes, it took much
longer to print.  I'd only do it for absolute maximum quality; you'd 
hardly ever need it in routine printing.

Jerry

Andrew Rodney wrote:

> on 1/16/03 9:45 PM, jim hayes:
> 
> 
>>A few days ago Colorbyte e-mailed me an update which allows mat paper
>>printing at 2880 (even though it looks as if it's available in the
>>pull down). No profiles for mat paper at 2880 exist yet AFAIK though.
> 
> 
> 
> You do NOT want to print at 2880. First, with IP or the Epson driver it
> takes forever but worse, you lose variable dot dither. The 2880 is IMHO more
> a high figure to look good to marketing than anything else. Print with IP at
> 1440; you'll get a better print and in far less time.
> 
> Andrew Rodney 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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>

Yes Andrew I had heard on this list, I believe from you about the 2880 
vs 1440 variable dot thing, and I assumed it certainly applied to the 
1280 and 1160 printers.

But I wasn't sure of the 2200 on IP5 RIP. 

I sent an 8x10 print through at 1440 and at 2880 (although I didn't 
have an actual profile for 2880 at the time-I do now). 7 minutes for 
1440 and 15 1/2 minutes for 2880.

I did notice one positive thing to the slower speed, even though I was 
using the wrong profile: mottling on Eclipse paper is less. However I 
am about to get 90% ink reduction curves for this paper and hopefully 
this will cure the mottling at 1440. I was using 95% ink reduction and 
it helped much over the standard 100%.

Colorbyte now has 2880 profiles for Photorag posted on their site and 
they are just finishing ones for Eclipse Satine. From what you say, it 
sounds as if I should be just using the 1440 90% ink reduction on 
Eclipse. The Photorag seems fine without reducing it's %ink.

One other question: do you know if IP5 prints at 1440 x 1440 or is it 
somethiing other like 1440 x 720? TIA
Jim H.




> 
> Andrew Rodney wrote:
> > on 1/16/03 9:45 PM, jim hayes:
> > 
> > 
> >>A few days ago Colorbyte e-mailed me an update which allows mat 
paper
> >>printing at 2880 (even though it looks as if it's available in the
> >>pull down). No profiles for mat paper at 2880 exist yet AFAIK 
though.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > You do NOT want to print at 2880. First, with IP or the Epson 
driver it
> > takes forever but worse, you lose variable dot dither. The 2880 is 
IMHO more
> > a high figure to look good to marketing than anything else. Print 
with IP at
> > 1440; you'll get a better print and in far less time.
> > 
> > Andrew Rodney 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage. 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

> > 
> > 
> >

Jim,

Just to clarify...the mottling problem that you are having with Eclipse and
the 2200 is a problem with gray pigment prints...correct?...because I
haven't seen a mottling problem for color output with IP and the 2200.

Robert

On 1/17/03 10:48 AM, "jim hayes <jimhayes@...>" <jimhayes@...>
wrote:

> Yes Andrew I had heard on this list, I believe from you about the 2880
> vs 1440 variable dot thing, and I assumed it certainly applied to the
> 1280 and 1160 printers.
> 
> But I wasn't sure of the 2200 on IP5 RIP.
> 
> I sent an 8x10 print through at 1440 and at 2880 (although I didn't
> have an actual profile for 2880 at the time-I do now). 7 minutes for
> 1440 and 15 1/2 minutes for 2880.
> 
> I did notice one positive thing to the slower speed, even though I was
> using the wrong profile: mottling on Eclipse paper is less. However I
> am about to get 90% ink reduction curves for this paper and hopefully
> this will cure the mottling at 1440. I was using 95% ink reduction and
> it helped much over the standard 100%.
> 
> Colorbyte now has 2880 profiles for Photorag posted on their site and
> they are just finishing ones for Eclipse Satine. From what you say, it
> sounds as if I should be just using the 1440 90% ink reduction on
> Eclipse. The Photorag seems fine without reducing it's %ink.
> 
> One other question: do you know if IP5 prints at 1440 x 1440 or is it
> somethiing other like 1440 x 720? TIA
> Jim H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Andrew Rodney wrote:
>>> on 1/16/03 9:45 PM, jim hayes:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> A few days ago Colorbyte e-mailed me an update which allows mat
> paper
>>>> printing at 2880 (even though it looks as if it's available in the
>>>> pull down). No profiles for mat paper at 2880 exist yet AFAIK
> though.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You do NOT want to print at 2880. First, with IP or the Epson
> driver it
>>> takes forever but worse, you lose variable dot dither. The 2880 is
> IMHO more
>>> a high figure to look good to marketing than anything else. Print
> with IP at
>>> 1440; you'll get a better print and in far less time.
>>> 
>>> Andrew Rodney 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is
> at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> visiting this same page.
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to keep them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Yes Robert. In fact I've only done one print to try to get it to show 
up, so I wasn't really trying on the color end. But I didn't see 
anything there on the one sample, FWIW.

I just received both color and b&w profiles for Eclipse at 95% and 90% 
 ink reduction. The 95% color curves are for 2880 if your interested 
in that, and the 90% color curves are for 1440. I also got grey curves 
for 100, 95, and 90% at 1440, and grey curves for 2880 at 95% ink 
reduction.

So there's lots to play with now for Eclipse (!!). I suspect if you 
asked Colorbyte you could get the downloads if you wanted to run more 
tests.

I won't know if the new profiles solve my mottling for greyscale. I 
need to let my samples dry for a day or three. Right now the 90% at 
1440 looks best.
Jim H.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert Morrison 
<rmorrison@p...> wrote:
> Jim,
> 
> Just to clarify...the mottling problem that you are having with 
Eclipse and
> the 2200 is a problem with gray pigment prints...correct?...because 
I
> haven't seen a mottling problem for color output with IP and the 
2200.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 1/17/03 10:48 AM, "jim hayes <jimhayes@f...>" <jimhayes@f...>
> wrote:
> 
> > Yes Andrew I had heard on this list, I believe from you about the 
2880
> > vs 1440 variable dot thing, and I assumed it certainly applied to 
the
> > 1280 and 1160 printers.
> > 
> > But I wasn't sure of the 2200 on IP5 RIP.
> > 
> > I sent an 8x10 print through at 1440 and at 2880 (although I 
didn't
> > have an actual profile for 2880 at the time-I do now). 7 minutes 
for
> > 1440 and 15 1/2 minutes for 2880.
> > 
> > I did notice one positive thing to the slower speed, even though I 
was
> > using the wrong profile: mottling on Eclipse paper is less. 
However I
> > am about to get 90% ink reduction curves for this paper and 
hopefully
> > this will cure the mottling at 1440. I was using 95% ink reduction 
and
> > it helped much over the standard 100%.
> > 
> > Colorbyte now has 2880 profiles for Photorag posted on their site 
and
> > they are just finishing ones for Eclipse Satine. From what you 
say, it
> > sounds as if I should be just using the 1440 90% ink reduction on
> > Eclipse. The Photorag seems fine without reducing it's %ink.
> > 
> > One other question: do you know if IP5 prints at 1440 x 1440 or is 
it
> > somethiing other like 1440 x 720? TIA
> > Jim H.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Andrew Rodney wrote:
> >>> on 1/16/03 9:45 PM, jim hayes:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> A few days ago Colorbyte e-mailed me an update which allows mat
> > paper
> >>>> printing at 2880 (even though it looks as if it's available in 
the
> >>>> pull down). No profiles for mat paper at 2880 exist yet AFAIK
> > though.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> You do NOT want to print at 2880. First, with IP or the Epson
> > driver it
> >>> takes forever but worse, you lose variable dot dither. The 2880 
is
> > IMHO more
> >>> a high figure to look good to marketing than anything else. 
Print
> > with IP at
> >>> 1440; you'll get a better print and in far less time.
> >>> 
> >>> Andrew Rodney 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The 
page is
> > at:
> >>> 
> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>> 
> >>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> > visiting this same page.
> >>> 
> >>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >>> - Include your full name with your message.
> >>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages
> > to keep them short.
> >>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject
> > header.
> >>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> >>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > various resources on the homepage.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>  
> >>> 
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> > 
> > 
> >

Andrew, I compared the 1440 and the 2880 settings on my 2200 - there is 
a difference to my eyes.. The 2880 appears sharper, has a little more 
depth, and above all is much less magenta in the mids than the 1440 
print.

Carolyn

>>
>> You do NOT want to print at 2880. First, with IP or the Epson driver 
>> it
>> takes forever but worse, you lose variable dot dither. The 2880 is 
>> IMHO more
>> a high figure to look good to marketing than anything else. Print 
>> with IP at
>> 1440; you'll get a better print and in far less time.
>>
>> Andrew Rodney