Digital BW, The Print

Ken, why not get the MIS Variable tone inkset and use paul's curves?

I understand the Lyson small gamut fade very rapidly in the sunlight,
much faster than most inks.

Jerry




ken@... wrote:

> 
> Jerry:
> 
> I've invested 'everything' in Epson inkjet printers, so I'm going
> that route. As for Lyson Small Gamut inks, I've not tried them, tho
> they are interesting. The one hold-back is so far I see them only
> marketed in carts which can be cost-prohibitive for larger
> printers/media, at least for me. I think the balance of
> aesthetics/presentation/longevity is out there, and as time goes by
> new answers will come forth.
> best,
> ken
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., meander@m... wrote:
> >  From the aesthetic point of view I am very interested in using
> > uncoated paper, do you have any experience with Lyson SG, or have
> you considered Laser printers?
> >
> > Jerry.
> 
> 
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Hi Jerry:
I'm currently running MIS VM inks in my 1160. Using the warm and 
medium-warm curves, I was hoping to see some warm tones on somerset 
velvet, fabriano uno, uncoated papers...but even with some of the 
other transfer curves that pinch back ink flow (because of dot gain) 
for watercolor papers I've experimented with, the ink wasn't warm, 
and was somewhat muddy, and in fact....I saw what looked like 
solarization in some of the tests. I've got this in on a cis system, 
so I'm somewhat committed and the tests are ongoing.

I contacted Paul Roark about the ink/paper combination and he emailed 
I most likely would not be happy with the the quads and uncoated 
papers. If anyone has had good luck with the ink/paper combination 
I'd be interested in hearing a workflow.

best,
ken

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Ken, why not get the MIS Variable tone inkset and use paul's curves?
> 
> I understand the Lyson small gamut fade very rapidly in the 
sunlight,

> much faster than most inks.
> 
> Jerry

Ken, I got pretty warm results with the warm curve, certainly as warm as
piezo. Never had posterizations related to Paul's curves.

If you like deep blacks, I wouldn't use uncoated papers, they're very
weak on them. UNless you are using a RIP.

Also, my prints with the warm curves aren't muddy. 

If you really want WARM, get the MIS archival color inks and print sepia
tone prints, you can get them as warm as you like!

Jerry



ken@... wrote:

> 
> Hi Jerry:
> I'm currently running MIS VM inks in my 1160. Using the warm and
> medium-warm curves, I was hoping to see some warm tones on somerset
> velvet, fabriano uno, uncoated papers...but even with some of the
> other transfer curves that pinch back ink flow (because of dot gain)
> for watercolor papers I've experimented with, the ink wasn't warm,
> and was somewhat muddy, and in fact....I saw what looked like
> solarization in some of the tests. I've got this in on a cis system,
> so I'm somewhat committed and the tests are ongoing.
> 
> I contacted Paul Roark about the ink/paper combination and he emailed
> I most likely would not be happy with the the quads and uncoated
> papers. If anyone has had good luck with the ink/paper combination
> I'd be interested in hearing a workflow.
> 
> best,
> ken
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Ken, why not get the MIS Variable tone inkset and use paul's curves?
> >
> > I understand the Lyson small gamut fade very rapidly in the
> sunlight,
> > much faster than most inks.
> >
> > Jerry
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry:
All my tests with MIS VM, are on uncoated papers. Most likely, the 
lack of warmth, the muddiness, I reported are probably related to the 
uncoated papers. From what I've read, users of coated papers have 
good results. I don't want to confuse anyone with the results of my 
experiences....your experiences are on coated papers too?

I mentioned 'solarization'. Maybe that is a silver photography term 
only. Do 'posterizations' have a similar look? Could you 
define 'posterizing' both from a b&w and a color standpoint? 

thanks,
ken


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Ken, I got pretty warm results with the warm curve, certainly as 
warm as
> piezo. Never had posterizations related to Paul's curves.
> 
> If you like deep blacks, I wouldn't use uncoated papers, they're 
very
> weak on them. UNless you are using a RIP.
> 
> Also, my prints with the warm curves aren't muddy. 
> 
> If you really want WARM, get the MIS archival color inks and print 
sepia

> tone prints, you can get them as warm as you like!
> 
> Jerry
>

None of the results posted here regarding the quad pigment inksets are relevant if you are printing on uncoated papers. 
There is no ink/coating reaction, so even with the warmest ink combinations they will appear relatively neutral. Mottle, 
bleed, and posterization are definitely greater with pigments on these papers. By the time the ink is throttled back enough 
to control these problems by various means, color gamut and max black are reduced to less than where one would wind 
up with dyes after addressing the same problems.
The various curves being used will probably not be very useful since they were developed on coated papers.
That's my experience with Piezo, Generations, older MIS, and Lysonic inks. Bob's post about the MIS hybrids might be worth 
pursuing though. Steve Meyers has a lovely older print on Somerset Velvet with an old MIS color set.
For color inks, media setting tests and good profiles would definitely be in order.
Tyler

Hi Tyler:
I could try the MIS archival color (dye-pigment hybrids) in the 1200 
printer and compare it with what I've done with Generations I 
currently have on a cis.

I've also asked technical support at MediaStreet (Generations ink) if 
they have a workflow, or source, for their inks on somerset velvet. 

ken


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> 
wrote:
> None of the results posted here regarding the quad pigment inksets 
are relevant if you are printing on uncoated papers. 
>....
Bob's post about the MIS hybrids might be worth 
> pursuing though. Steve Meyers has a lovely older print on Somerset 
Velvet with an old MIS color set.
> For color inks, media setting tests and good profiles would 
definitely be in order.
> Tyler

Ken, doubt you'll ever get satisfactory prints on uncoated papers. You'd
be the first one to do so, unless you're using a RIP. THey will always
be flat, gray, and muddy. Arches Bright white gives better blacks than
most, but smooth areas are usually very grainy, and the prints are not
sharp on this paper.

Posterization is when you have half a dozen tones of individual shades
of gray or color where it should be smooth. 

I don't have any posterization with the VM inks and paul's curves.

jerry

> All my tests with MIS VM, are on uncoated papers. Most likely, the
> lack of warmth, the muddiness, I reported are probably related to the
> uncoated papers. From what I've read, users of coated papers have
> good results. I don't want to confuse anyone with the results of my
> experiences....your experiences are on coated papers too?
> 
> I mentioned 'solarization'. Maybe that is a silver photography term
> only. Do 'posterizations' have a similar look? Could you
> define 'posterizing' both from a b&w and a color standpoint?
> 
> thanks,
> ken
>