Digital BW, The Print

Hi Jimenez,

The Enhanced black is the blackest ink available, unless you count
Epson's DYE black ink. 75 percent pigment, 25 percent dye.  Rated on the
Mediastreet website to 100+ years.  I've been using that ink since it
was introduced, (beta black then), and seen no fading at all in normal
print viewing conditions. I don't worry about archivalness any more,
Until 100 years has actually passed, we'll never know if the predictions
are truly accurate. there are just TOO MANY variables that can screw up
tests, no matter how carefully they are done.

Jerry

Hello forum members,

I am new to the forum and would like some help:

I am planning to start using BO printing method. Does this mean that I 
have to change ink set or may I use the original Epson K3 colour inkset?

My printer is an Epson R2400.

Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
Nuno

Nuno

Welcome.  The Epson 2400 can not do Black Only printing (unless you use a
RIP to do so).  How long have you had the printer?   Why the desire to do
black only vs using the printer's three K inks?

Regards

Steve

> From: nuno_quinteira <nuno_quinteira@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:57:39 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] BO printing
> 
> Hello forum members,
> 
> I am new to the forum and would like some help:
> 
> I am planning to start using BO printing method. Does this mean that I
> have to change ink set or may I use the original Epson K3 colour inkset?
> 
> My printer is an Epson R2400.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Best regards,
> Nuno
>

Steve,

Thanks for the prompt answer. I have just recentely bought this 
printer, so I am not experienced. I am considering BO printing 
because I have read that it is a good method for printing B&W images.

So, if I understand what you mean, should I use FI method for B&W 
printing?

Is there any advantage in using QTR or other RIP when printing B&W? 
Can I use it with this printer?

Thanks again for your help.

Best regards,
Nuno
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Nuno
> 
> Welcome.  The Epson 2400 can not do Black Only printing (unless you 
use a
> RIP to do so).  How long have you had the printer?   Why the desire 
to do
> black only vs using the printer's three K inks?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> > From: nuno_quinteira <nuno_quinteira@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:57:39 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] BO printing
> > 
> > Hello forum members,
> > 
> > I am new to the forum and would like some help:
> > 
> > I am planning to start using BO printing method. Does this mean 
that I
> > have to change ink set or may I use the original Epson K3 colour 
inkset?

> > 
> > My printer is an Epson R2400.
> > 
> > Thanks for your help.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Nuno
> >

If I were in your position, I would spend some time with the Epson Adv B&W
driver and those K3 inks.  It's really quite a good starting point - as
opposed to its forbearer the 21/2200 printer.  Moving away from the Adv B&W
driver introduces complexity which can come a little later.  Yes QTR
supports the 2400 and will drive your current ink set.  To use it well
requires you to linearize the "curves" for your specific printer which
requires some additional equipment (a densimeter or photospectrometer).  For
many many people the ability to easily pick the tint of their images with
the Epson driver will be a godsend.  You can alter the hue of images with
QTR but it requires some work and experimentation (you have to create a
curve for the hue you want or at best blend two curves, eg warm and cool to
get a neutral).  The potential drawback of the Epson driver is the use of
yellow ink (QTR curves for the 2400/4800 will likely use C, M, LC and LM so
Y is the divider) even for non-sepia hue (QTR uses Y for sepia curves).
Yellow has, in the past, been the weakest ink for longevity.  So if you are
very focused on the absolute maximum longevity of your prints then taking on
the complexity of a RIP such as QTR to avoid the use of yellow ink has some
merit.  But even B&W prints using the Epson Adv B&W driver have considerable
longevity.  QTR is a very powerful RIP because it allows you to create any
sort of "greyscale" you want from any of your inks in any order - but it
comes with the price of extra work to get the best out of it.  You need to
decide whether the extra work is necessary and you can't decide that until
you've learnt how to get the best out of the product Epson sold you.

There are parts of QTR that are not part of the RIP which can help the Epson
driver output.  I am referring to the QTR Create ICC module.  This, however,
requires you to have an Eye-One Photo (or similar device - Roy is working on
expanding the devices and data formats the module can handle).  If you own
such a device then I would definitely check this aspect of QTR out.  It
essentially profiles the luminance of the greyscale output of your
printer/driver combination and so let's you tap into Photoshop's Colour
Management ability to manage the luminance compression from file to print.

> From: nuno_quinteira <nuno_quinteira@...>

> 
> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for the prompt answer. I have just recentely bought this
> printer, so I am not experienced. I am considering BO printing
> because I have read that it is a good method for printing B&W images.
> 
> So, if I understand what you mean, should I use FI method for B&W
> printing?
> 
> Is there any advantage in using QTR or other RIP when printing B&W?
> Can I use it with this printer?
> 
> Thanks again for your help.
> 
> Best regards,
> Nuno

Hi Nuno,

You can print BO with the 2400 but it will use all 3 black inks. The 
look is not the same as a printer that uses only 1 black ink.

You could always dedicate another printer for BO printing, like a 
1280. That's probably the route I'm going to take: 4800 for color and 
the 1280 for B.O.

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "nuno_quinteira" 
<nuno_quinteira@y...> wrote:
> Hello forum members,
> 
> I am new to the forum and would like some help:
> 
> I am planning to start using BO printing method. Does this mean 
that I 
> have to change ink set or may I use the original Epson K3 colour 
inkset?

> 
> My printer is an Epson R2400.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Best regards,
> Nuno

I got my MIS PRO color inkset today. I was very interested in the glossy
performance of this inkset, and what I'm seeing so far looks promising, but
not perfect.

A lot of the bronzing and gloss differential is gone, but if I hold the
print in an extreme angle against the light I can still see some gloss
differential in the highlights where the paper is covered with very little
ink. This is probably because of the difference in gloss between the paper
itself and the inks.

I still think PKN with GLOP looks better, but this is much closer than
before. I didn't have a chance to get the UT7 inks with the new base this
time, but when I get some I'm hoping I can get away with using much less
GLOP than previously. I've been using a 60% coat over the entire image, but
I suspect with the new base I only need to put some in the highlights.

Compared to the Archival 7600 inkset these inks are _much_ better. I would
get mottling unless I used 2880dpi, but now the prints are good even at
1440dpi high speed. The new PK also has high dmax on Ilford Smooth Pearl.
The previous one was very weak.

I don't yet know if these inks will have the same settling problems as the
Archival 7600 inks. I'll let you know.

The inks will definitely need custom profiles. When using the Epson profiles
the prints were way too magenta.

I made a couple of QTR curves for the inkset and didn't have any problems
making neutral tones with either the PK or the PKN ink. I still need to fine
tune them though, they're a little too blue in the shadows still.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Steve-  If the resulting profile is useful for PS color management, I 
assume it could be used as the printing space for the Soft Proof 
function in PS.  Do you do this?  Do you find that useful?  How 
predictive of the print is the screen view doing that?

Many thanks,
Walt



> There are parts of QTR that are not part of the RIP which can help 
the Epson
> driver output.  I am referring to the QTR Create ICC module.  This, 
however,
> requires you to have an Eye-One Photo (or similar device - Roy is 
working on
> expanding the devices and data formats the module can handle).  If 
you own
> such a device then I would definitely check this aspect of QTR 
out.  It
> essentially profiles the luminance of the greyscale output of your
> printer/driver combination and so let's you tap into Photoshop's 
Colour
> Management ability to manage the luminance compression from file to 
print.
>

I do use it occasionally but generally find that the portrayal of the lower
black point appears exaggerated (be it with a QTR profile or otherwise).  I
tend now to simply get the image looking good on screen and then print with
the profile.  No "print curves" necessary.

> From: wwodets <odets@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:28:14 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Create ICC Profile  (was 2400 ABW and QTR)
> 
> Steve-  If the resulting profile is useful for PS color management, I
> assume it could be used as the printing space for the Soft Proof
> function in PS.  Do you do this?  Do you find that useful?  How
> predictive of the print is the screen view doing that?
> 
> Many thanks,
> Walt
> 
> 
> 
>> There are parts of QTR that are not part of the RIP which can help
> the Epson
>> driver output.  I am referring to the QTR Create ICC module.  This,
> however,
>> requires you to have an Eye-One Photo (or similar device - Roy is
> working on
>> expanding the devices and data formats the module can handle).  If
> you own
>> such a device then I would definitely check this aspect of QTR
> out.  It
>> essentially profiles the luminance of the greyscale output of your
>> printer/driver combination and so let's you tap into Photoshop's
> Colour
>> Management ability to manage the luminance compression from file to
> print.
>