Digital BW, The Print

I just returned from a classical music weekend where
I brought some of my studio gear and did "portraits" of
some of the musicians' instruments, chiefly flute,
clarinet, English horn, and French horn.  The predominent
color on these instruments was silver, with odd bits of
gold.  The nonmetal parts of the English horn and clarinet
were black and I shoot them on black velvet.   On some 
shots I tossed in some bright colored objects to add 
splashes of color, but the predominent color scheme was
silver and black.   These photos were shot with a digital camera.

In order to print what colors there were I need to print
in color, so black-only or hextones can't do the job. But
being mostly silver and black these images will reveal 
any problems the printer has with either non-neutrality,
color casts at different values, or metamerism, just the
way black and white printing does.  I think this is the 
first situation I've run into where a RIP may be the only
solution.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "plnelson2003 
<peter@s...>" <peter@s...> wrote:
> I just returned from a classical music weekend where
> I brought some of my studio gear and did "portraits" of
> some of the musicians' instruments, chiefly flute,
> clarinet, English horn, and French horn.  The predominent
> color on these instruments was silver, with odd bits of
> gold.  The nonmetal parts of the English horn and clarinet
> were black and I shoot them on black velvet.   On some 
> shots I tossed in some bright colored objects to add 
> splashes of color, but the predominent color scheme was
> silver and black.   These photos were shot with a digital camera.
> 
> In order to print what colors there were I need to print
> in color, so black-only or hextones can't do the job. But
> being mostly silver and black these images will reveal 
> any problems the printer has with either non-neutrality,
> color casts at different values, or metamerism, just the
> way black and white printing does.  I think this is the 
> first situation I've run into where a RIP may be the only
> solution.

What makes a color RIP work is a good custom profile; Even a 
reasonably priced profiling suite like Monaco EZcolor will go a long 
way towards getting it right, if you do hardware calibration on the 
monitor, etc. Photoshop does fine as a RIP if you feed it the right 
info!

Steve K

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis <stevek@e...>" <stevek@e...> wrote:


> Even a reasonably priced profiling suite like Monaco 
> EZcolor will go a long way towards getting it right, 
> if you do hardware calibration on the monitor, etc. 
> Photoshop does fine as a RIP if you feed it the right 
> info!

The main problem with the 2200 is metamerism.   No
profiler can fix metamerism.    So far the only RIP that
is alleged to fix metamerism is the IP RIP but Colorbytes
is not exactly forthcoming about providing sample prints.

As you say, a RIP needs a good profile, so I if I buy
the IP RIP and climb the learning curve to get up to speed
on it, just to TRY it and see if it works,  and I don't 
get good results I won't know if it's me or the product.
I'd like to know how I can see what it can do in the hands of
someone who knows what they're doing.

One simple answer on this is to ask someone on this list who is using it
and is happy with the result and will gladly send a sample (shipping
expenses?) for you to evaluate.

 

Regards

Soren

 

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: plnelson2003 <peter@...>
[mailto:peter@studio-nelson.com] 
Skickat: den 18 februari 2003 13:35
Till: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Ämne: [Digital BW] Re: Possible argument in favor of RIPs

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis <stevek@e...>" <stevek@e...> wrote:


> Even a reasonably priced profiling suite like Monaco 
> EZcolor will go a long way towards getting it right, 
> if you do hardware calibration on the monitor, etc. 
> Photoshop does fine as a RIP if you feed it the right 
> info!

The main problem with the 2200 is metamerism.   No
profiler can fix metamerism.    So far the only RIP that
is alleged to fix metamerism is the IP RIP but Colorbytes
is not exactly forthcoming about providing sample prints.

As you say, a RIP needs a good profile, so I if I buy
the IP RIP and climb the learning curve to get up to speed
on it, just to TRY it and see if it works,  and I don't 
get good results I won't know if it's me or the product.
I'd like to know how I can see what it can do in the hands of
someone who knows what they're doing.

   






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, considering most people here are using IP5 for grey-scale 
inks, you're probably better off asking on the wide-format forum-
there's a lot of discussion there about the 7600 and rips, you might 
get what you need.   URL=  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/

Steve K.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sören Lindqvist 
<soren.lindqvist@t...> wrote:
> One simple answer on this is to ask someone on this list who is 
using it
> and is happy with the result and will gladly send a sample 
(shipping
> expenses?) for you to evaluate.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards
> 
> Soren
> 
>  
> 
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: plnelson2003 <peter@s...>
> [mailto:peter@s...] 
> Skickat: den 18 februari 2003 13:35
> Till: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Ämne: [Digital BW] Re: Possible argument in favor of RIPs
> 
>  
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
> Karafyllakis <stevek@e...>" <stevek@e...> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Even a reasonably priced profiling suite like Monaco 
> > EZcolor will go a long way towards getting it right, 
> > if you do hardware calibration on the monitor, etc. 
> > Photoshop does fine as a RIP if you feed it the right 
> > info!
> 
> The main problem with the 2200 is metamerism.   No
> profiler can fix metamerism.    So far the only RIP that
> is alleged to fix metamerism is the IP RIP but Colorbytes
> is not exactly forthcoming about providing sample prints.
> 
> As you say, a RIP needs a good profile, so I if I buy
> the IP RIP and climb the learning curve to get up to speed
> on it, just to TRY it and see if it works,  and I don't 
> get good results I won't know if it's me or the product.
> I'd like to know how I can see what it can do in the hands of
> someone who knows what they're doing.
> 
>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> 
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
>  
> 
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245454.2895241.4313951.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1
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019182:HM/A=1457554/R=0/*http:/ipunda.com/clk/beibunmaisuiyuiwabei> 
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M=245454.2895241.4313951.2848452/D=egrou
> pmail/S=:HM/A=1457554/rand=882855348> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this
> same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various

> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis <stevek@e...>" <stevek@e...> wrote:
> Actually, considering most people here are using IP5 for grey-scale 
> inks, you're probably better off asking on the wide-format forum-
> there's a lot of discussion there about the 7600 and rips, 

I was under the impression that most people here who were using the 
IP RIP were using it as an ALTERNATIVE to grayscale inks, because of 
the alleged ability to use some combination of inks that compensates 
for metamerism.   Daniel Staver, for instance, says it doesn't use 
the yellow ink. Another poster here last week says it doesn't use one 
of the magenta's.  

From the long discussion last week ("WHEN...(etc)") I had the 
impression that there are 3 predominant approaches to black and white 
printing here -  quadtone/hextone systems, black-only, and RIPs.  
Obviously it's possible to combine them, as you suggest above, but in 
that thread there seemed to be plenty of photographers who have 
settled on one of the three as their main approach.