Digital BW, The Print

I didn't write down all the settings, as I was doing it, but I was 
following the instructions on the MIS site to the letter, using the Roark 
NC curve.  I went through the instructions a couple of times to be sure I 
hadn't missed anything.  (Yes, I'm sure I converted the file to RGB ;-)  )

So I decided to start again from scratch and make my own curve.  (I'm an 
engineer, I just couldn't help it).  The dots are gone, the sharpness is 
back.  (It's not quite neutral, but I'm very close).  Prints are very 
good.  But, there is still something about the Lyson print that is 
better.  Close examination with a loupe shows more "depth" -- hard to 
describe, but definitely visible.  I have a theory about this, which I'm 
investigating.

Given that Evelyn also had poor results with the Roark curves, I wonder if 
some printers (of the same model) have different enough characteristics 
that the "standard" (ie. roark) curves don't work, but other curves 
do.  Once I get my curve completely neutral, I wonder if someone else with 
a 1280 that the Roark curve *does* work with, could try my curve.  That 
would be an interesting experiment and help eliminate simple operator-error 
on my part (and that the time I've spent figuring out how to create curves 
wasn't wasted, but was used to profile my particular printer :-) ).  If the 
world makes sense, then my curve should not work as well as the Roark curve 
on their printer.  Any volunteers?

Keith Douglas

Keith, I'll be happy to try your curve. I have a 1280 printer and use
the MIS VM inkset.

I have no idea on how to make a curve. An engineer says it's easy. I say
how you DO dat?

Jerry

I wonder if someone else with

> a 1280 that the Roark curve *does* work with, could try my curve.  That
> would be an interesting experiment and help eliminate simple operator-error
> on my part (and that the time I've spent figuring out how to create curves
> wasn't wasted, but was used to profile my particular printer :-) ).  If the
> world makes sense, then my curve should not work as well as the Roark curve
> on their printer.  Any volunteers?
> 
> Keith Douglas
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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I'm "close" to ordering the MIS-VM set for my new 1280.  If you can hold
on just a while longer, I'll be a guinea pig.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Douglas [mailto:kdouglas@...] 
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Disappointed with MIS-VM and Epson 1280
> 
> 
> I didn't write down all the settings, as I was doing it, but I was 
> following the instructions on the MIS site to the letter, 
> using the Roark 
> NC curve.  I went through the instructions a couple of times 
> to be sure I 
> hadn't missed anything.  (Yes, I'm sure I converted the file 
> to RGB ;-)  )
> 
> So I decided to start again from scratch and make my own 
> curve.  (I'm an 
> engineer, I just couldn't help it).  The dots are gone, the 
> sharpness is 
> back.  (It's not quite neutral, but I'm very close).  Prints are very 
> good.  But, there is still something about the Lyson print that is 
> better.  Close examination with a loupe shows more "depth" -- hard to 
> describe, but definitely visible.  I have a theory about 
> this, which I'm 
> investigating.
> 
> Given that Evelyn also had poor results with the Roark 
> curves, I wonder if 
> some printers (of the same model) have different enough 
> characteristics 
> that the "standard" (ie. roark) curves don't work, but other curves 
> do.  Once I get my curve completely neutral, I wonder if 
> someone else with 
> a 1280 that the Roark curve *does* work with, could try my 
> curve.  That 
> would be an interesting experiment and help eliminate simple 
> operator-error 
> on my part (and that the time I've spent figuring out how to 
> create curves 
> wasn't wasted, but was used to profile my particular printer 
> :-) ).  If the 
> world makes sense, then my curve should not work as well as 
> the Roark curve 
> on their printer.  Any volunteers?
> 
> Keith Douglas
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being 
> updated. The page is at:
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Douglas [mailto:kdouglas@...] 
<snip>
> Given that Evelyn also had poor results with the Roark 
> curves, I wonder if 
> some printers (of the same model) have different enough 
> characteristics 
> that the "standard" (ie. roark) curves don't work, but other curves 
> do.  Once I get my curve completely neutral, I wonder if 
> someone else with 
> a 1280 that the Roark curve *does* work with, could try my 
> curve.
<snip>

Well, between clogs I've been using the Roark curves with the MIS VM
inks in my new 1280, and here's what I've found:

1.  I really like the overall tones, and definitely see that the curves
are appropriately named.
2.  The Neutral curve is the only one that gives me decent results, and
even with that I find I need to increase the contrast quite a bit and
also brighten the image some.  And I can't seem to get a very dense
black on Heavy Weight Matte.  But I see it has potential for me.
3.  I like the tone of the Medium Warm curve, but it starts to introduce
a kind of solorized look to some of the tones, and I can't seem to
figure out what tones it's doing this with, it seems random and they
just show up as weird highlights in places.
4.  The warm curve makes this solorized look even worse, truly looking
like a darkroom flashing while it's in the developer.  It's totally
unusable for me.

I'm ready to try another set of curves, but a visit to the MIS site
doesn't show anything else specifically written for the 1280 and VM
inks.  I'll happily take recommendations/explanations/comments.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

Ed,

I started out using the same curves on a 1280 (Mac), VM inks, 
CIS and bumped into the same things you're describing. 

I switched to Tyler Boley's curves (available somewhere here in 
the files section, I believe. All of my curve issues disappeared 
and I'm very happy with the VM ink and HM photo rag 
combination.

Jeff

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed 
Mathews" <ed@l...> wrote:

> 3.  I like the tone of the Medium Warm curve, but it starts to 
introduce
> a kind of solorized look to some of the tones, and I can't seem 
to
> figure out what tones it's doing this with, it seems random and 
they
> just show up as weird highlights in places.
> 4.  The warm curve makes this solorized look even worse, truly 
looking
> like a darkroom flashing while it's in the developer.  It's totally
> unusable for me.
> 
> I'm ready to try another set of curves, but a visit to the MIS site
> doesn't show anything else specifically written for the 1280 and 
VM
> inks.  I'll happily take 
recommendations/explanations/comments.

> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

Hi Ed,

I've used Tyler Boley's VM curves too and like them.  Now (between 
clogs) I'm using the VMS inks and think I like them even better.  
The curves are from Keith Krebs and the neutral and medium warm 
curves are my favorite.  If you need these let me know and I can 
send them to you.

I want to try the FS inks but will have to get into cartridge 
refilling to do that.  Not too crazy about doing that.

Tom Husband

> Well, between clogs I've been using the Roark curves with the MIS 
VM
> inks in my new 1280, and here's what I've found:
> 
> 1.  I really like the overall tones, and definitely see that the 
curves
> are appropriately named.
> 2.  The Neutral curve is the only one that gives me decent 
results, and
> even with that I find I need to increase the contrast quite a bit 
and
> also brighten the image some.  And I can't seem to get a very dense
> black on Heavy Weight Matte.  But I see it has potential for me.
> 3.  I like the tone of the Medium Warm curve, but it starts to 
introduce
> a kind of solorized look to some of the tones, and I can't seem to
> figure out what tones it's doing this with, it seems random and 
they
> just show up as weird highlights in places.
> 4.  The warm curve makes this solorized look even worse, truly 
looking

> like a darkroom flashing while it's in the developer.  It's totally
> unusable for me.
> 
> I'm ready to try another set of curves, but a visit to the MIS site
> doesn't show anything else specifically written for the 1280 and VM
> inks.  I'll happily take recommendations/explanations/comments.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

Has anyone who has tried T. Boley's cold curve noticed that there is an 
extreme crossover in colors? One of them
shows certain gray tones to be absolutely blue. Prints look terrible. on 
EEM paper, 1280 Printer, MIS VM inkset.

Jerry

Haven't tried the others in the set yet, this was the Cold05 curve.


Jeff Korte wrote:

> Ed,
> 
> I started out using the same curves on a 1280 (Mac), VM inks, 
> CIS and bumped into the same things you're describing. 
> 
> I switched to Tyler Boley's curves (available somewhere here in 
> the files section, I believe. All of my curve issues disappeared 
> and I'm very happy with the VM ink and HM photo rag 
> combination.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed 
> Mathews" <ed@l...> wrote:
> 
> 
>>3.  I like the tone of the Medium Warm curve, but it starts to 
> 
> introduce
> 
>>a kind of solorized look to some of the tones, and I can't seem 
> 
> to
> 
>>figure out what tones it's doing this with, it seems random and 
> 
> they
> 
>>just show up as weird highlights in places.
>>4.  The warm curve makes this solorized look even worse, truly 
> 
> looking
> 
>>like a darkroom flashing while it's in the developer.  It's totally
>>unusable for me.
>>
>>I'm ready to try another set of curves, but a visit to the MIS site
>>doesn't show anything else specifically written for the 1280 and 
> 
> VM
> 
>>inks.  I'll happily take 
> 
> recommendations/explanations/comments.
> 
>>Thanks,
>>Ed
>>http://lightandsilver.com
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> 
>

Hi Tome,

Would you send a copy of Keith Krebs curves to me? I would just like to 
try them and compare them to others.

Thanks!

Jerry

The curves I downloaded for Boley are listed for Photo Rag. I didn't see 
any others out there. I've did try it on photo rag and it were indeed 
cold but I didn't see any crossover. I normally use the what looks like 
his cool neutral curve (the next one up). His instructions also call for 
setting the gamma in the printer for 2.2.

Are these these same curves that you used on EEM? If so it might be the 
curves are not quite right for EEM.

Truman

Jerry Olson wrote:

>Has anyone who has tried T. Boley's cold curve noticed that there is an 
>extreme crossover in colors? One of them
>shows certain gray tones to be absolutely blue. Prints look terrible. on 
>EEM paper, 1280 Printer, MIS VM inkset.
>
>Jerry
>
>Haven't tried the others in the set yet, this was the Cold05 curve.
>
>
>Jeff Korte wrote:
>  
>

Yes, It was my fault. I used EEM, not photorag. I'm sorry, I should have 
read that more closely.

Jerry

I'll try the cool neutral on photo rag to see what thats like.







Truman Prevatt wrote:

> The curves I downloaded for Boley are listed for Photo Rag. I didn't see 
> any others out there. I've did try it on photo rag and it were indeed 
> cold but I didn't see any crossover. I normally use the what looks like 
> his cool neutral curve (the next one up). His instructions also call for 
> setting the gamma in the printer for 2.2.
> 
> Are these these same curves that you used on EEM? If so it might be the 
> curves are not quite right for EEM.
> 
> Truman
> 
> Jerry Olson wrote:
> 
> 
>>Has anyone who has tried T. Boley's cold curve noticed that there is an 
>>extreme crossover in colors? One of them
>>shows certain gray tones to be absolutely blue. Prints look terrible. on 
>>EEM paper, 1280 Printer, MIS VM inkset.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>Haven't tried the others in the set yet, this was the Cold05 curve.
>>
>>
>>Jeff Korte wrote:
>> 
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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>  
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> 
> 
>

I pulled out my step wedges I did on Photo Rag using these curves since 
your comments made me curious to look again. I also made a print using 
the cold curve. On the step wedge it appears extremely cold - almost 
blue. But in the print it takes on the appearance of an extremely toned 
silver print and depending on the subject matter and taste can be very 
appropriate.

In a course I took some number of years ago the instructor (who was a 
student of Minor White) told me that Minor White would heavily tone some 
of his subject matter.  The instructor had on exhibit where he used this 
technique to produce very, very cold toned  prints. The exhibit was 
called "Florida Condo" and was a statement on how poorly we as a society 
treat our elderly. This toning worked very well on this subject matter 
and provided a significant impact.

So I think this curve is good one to have in your arsenal but it will 
most likely not be used that often.

Truman

Jerry Olson wrote:

>Yes, It was my fault. I used EEM, not photorag. I'm sorry, I should have 
>read that more closely.
>
>Jerry
>
>I'll try the cool neutral on photo rag to see what thats like.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Truman Prevatt wrote:
>  
>
>>The curves I downloaded for Boley are listed for Photo Rag. I didn't see 
>>any others out there. I've did try it on photo rag and it were indeed 
>>cold but I didn't see any crossover. I normally use the what looks like 
>>his cool neutral curve (the next one up). His instructions also call for 
>>setting the gamma in the printer for 2.2.
>>
>>Are these these same curves that you used on EEM? If so it might be the 
>>curves are not quite right for EEM.
>>
>>Truman
>>
>>Jerry Olson wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Has anyone who has tried T. Boley's cold curve noticed that there is an 
>>>extreme crossover in colors? One of them
>>>shows certain gray tones to be absolutely blue. Prints look terrible. on 
>>>EEM paper, 1280 Printer, MIS VM inkset.
>>>
>>>Jerry
>>>
>>>Haven't tried the others in the set yet, this was the Cold05 curve.
>>>
>>>
>>>Jeff Korte wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>>
>>Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
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>
>
>  
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can someone point me to Tyler Boley's curves for the MIS VM inks and the
1280?  I looked in the file section, and all I saw was a text related to
Piezo, and a tif file related to a soft proof article.  I'm running PS 7
on Windows.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Korte [mailto:jeffkorte@...] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 7:41 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Disappointed with MIS-VM and Epson 1280
> 
> 
> Ed,
> 
> I started out using the same curves on a 1280 (Mac), VM inks, 
> CIS and bumped into the same things you're describing. 
> 
> I switched to Tyler Boley's curves (available somewhere here in 
> the files section, I believe. All of my curve issues disappeared 
> and I'm very happy with the VM ink and HM photo rag 
> combination.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed 
> Mathews" <ed@l...> wrote:
> 
> > 3.  I like the tone of the Medium Warm curve, but it starts to 
> introduce
> > a kind of solorized look to some of the tones, and I can't seem 
> to
> > figure out what tones it's doing this with, it seems random and 
> they
> > just show up as weird highlights in places.
> > 4.  The warm curve makes this solorized look even worse, truly 
> looking
> > like a darkroom flashing while it's in the developer.  It's totally
> > unusable for me.
> > 
> > I'm ready to try another set of curves, but a visit to the MIS site
> > doesn't show anything else specifically written for the 1280 and 
> VM
> > inks.  I'll happily take 
> recommendations/explanations/comments.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Ed
> > http://lightandsilver.com
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being 
> updated. The page is at:
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same page.

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header.
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&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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Try here:
Files > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Variable Mix > 1280 PC MIS VM

Regards,
David

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews" 
<ed@l...> wrote:
> Can someone point me to Tyler Boley's curves for the MIS VM inks 
and the
> 1280?  I looked in the file section, and all I saw was a text 
related to
> Piezo, and a tif file related to a soft proof article.  I'm 
running PS 7
> on Windows.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Korte [mailto:jeffkorte@m...] 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 7:41 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Disappointed with MIS-VM and Epson 1280
> > 
> > 
> > Ed,
> > 
> > I started out using the same curves on a 1280 (Mac), VM inks, 
> > CIS and bumped into the same things you're describing. 
> > 
> > I switched to Tyler Boley's curves (available somewhere here in 
> > the files section, I believe. All of my curve issues disappeared 
> > and I'm very happy with the VM ink and HM photo rag 
> > combination.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed 
> > Mathews" <ed@l...> wrote:
> > 
> > > 3.  I like the tone of the Medium Warm curve, but it starts to 
> > introduce
> > > a kind of solorized look to some of the tones, and I can't 
seem 
> > to
> > > figure out what tones it's doing this with, it seems random 
and 
> > they
> > > just show up as weird highlights in places.
> > > 4.  The warm curve makes this solorized look even worse, truly 
> > looking
> > > like a darkroom flashing while it's in the developer.  It's 
totally
> > > unusable for me.
> > > 
> > > I'm ready to try another set of curves, but a visit to the MIS 
site
> > > doesn't show anything else specifically written for the 1280 
and 
> > VM
> > > inks.  I'll happily take 
> > recommendations/explanations/comments.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ed
> > > http://lightandsilver.com
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> > Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being 
> > updated. The page is at:
> > 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this
> same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various

> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Keith: the MIS-VM inkset with Paul's curves worked perfect in my 1280.
I did mostly use the neutral curve. But there was nothing I could ever
complain about. Unfortunately, I can't explain why they worked for me
but not for you. I'm currently using MIS FSN-E inks with the Woolf
workflow which also seems to work very well. I just don't have
clogging problmes with either. But having tried the FSN-E inks, I may
go back to the VM inkset when my current inks run out.
I have a standard curve adjustment I use with every image but I scan
XP2 a bit flat to get the maximum detail in both shadows and
highlights.   
Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews"
<ed@l...> wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Keith Douglas [mailto:kdouglas@q...] 
> <snip>
> > Given that Evelyn also had poor results with the Roark 
> > curves, I wonder if 
> > some printers (of the same model) have different enough 
> > characteristics 
> > that the "standard" (ie. roark) curves don't work, but other curves 
> > do.  Once I get my curve completely neutral, I wonder if 
> > someone else with 
> > a 1280 that the Roark curve *does* work with, could try my 
> > curve.
> <snip>
> 
> Well, between clogs I've been using the Roark curves with the MIS VM
> inks in my new 1280, and here's what I've found:
> 
> 1.  I really like the overall tones, and definitely see that the curves
> are appropriately named.
> 2.  The Neutral curve is the only one that gives me decent results, and
> even with that I find I need to increase the contrast quite a bit and
> also brighten the image some.  And I can't seem to get a very dense
> black on Heavy Weight Matte.  But I see it has potential for me.
> 3.  I like the tone of the Medium Warm curve, but it starts to introduce
> a kind of solorized look to some of the tones, and I can't seem to
> figure out what tones it's doing this with, it seems random and they
> just show up as weird highlights in places.
> 4.  The warm curve makes this solorized look even worse, truly looking
> like a darkroom flashing while it's in the developer.  It's totally
> unusable for me.
> 
> I'm ready to try another set of curves, but a visit to the MIS site
> doesn't show anything else specifically written for the 1280 and VM
> inks.  I'll happily take recommendations/explanations/comments.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

Jerry Olson wrote:

>Hi Tome,
>
>Would you send a copy of Keith Krebs curves to me? I would just like to 
>try them and compare them to others.
>
>Thanks!
>
>  
>
Jerry,

Just so you know, you are a good part of the reason for my tweaked 
version of the curves...

In one of the first print exchanges I did with the MIS-VM-S inks, you 
pointed out the lack of richness/depth to the blacks (no surprise that 
YOU noticed it, LOL) -- something I had failed to notice on my own, but 
which was apparent as soon as you pointed it out....

Since others were quite happy  with the curves as is, I chalked it up to 
possible printer variations and decided to try and tweak them to my own 
1270...  A bit of tinkering with wedges and "voila!"..

The curves are at:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Ink%20Sets/MIS/MIS%20Variable%20Mix/MIS%20VM%20Neutral-Sepia/Keith%27s%20MIS-VM%20Sepia%201270%20curves.zip>

Keith

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Keith,

Ah, these were for the sepia inks. I'm sorry, I thought they were for 
the VM Cool-warm inks.  All the prints
look very yellow-brown, and I suppose that's the reason. Also, I'm on a 
Mac, so I suppose there would be a difference.

I'm still getting banding, mild, but noticeable. It is worse on some of 
your curves than others, Just can't seem to
get rid of it. I guess I'll have to send the printer in to Epson .

Jer



Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:

> 
> Jerry Olson wrote:
> 
> 
> Just so you know, you are a good part of the reason for my tweaked 
> version of the curves...
> 
> In one of the first print exchanges I did with the MIS-VM-S inks, you 
> pointed out the lack of richness/depth to the blacks (no surprise that 
> YOU noticed it, LOL) -- something I had failed to notice on my own, but 
> which was apparent as soon as you pointed it out....
> 
> Since others were quite happy  with the curves as is, I chalked it up to 
> possible printer variations and decided to try and tweak them to my own 
> 1270...  A bit of tinkering with wedges and "voila!"..
> 
> The curves are at:
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Ink%20Sets/MIS/MIS%20Variable%20Mix/MIS%20VM%20Neutral-Sepia/Keith%27s%20MIS-VM%20Sepia%201270%20curves.zip>
> 
> Keith
> 
>  
> 
> "Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> Publications), at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
>  
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
> guys"
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>

Jerry - 

I've had problems similar to yours.

Options that helped me:

1. Tyler Boley's 1280 curves and Paul Roark's 1290 curves are both giving me _way_ better prints than Paul's 1280 curves.

2. Roy Harrington's QuadtoneRip gives me amazingly good results (well, with curves I made, which I haven't posted yet.)

I use the standard VM-cool inks on a mac.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...> wrote:

> Thanks, Keith,
> 
> Ah, these were for the sepia inks. I'm sorry, I thought they were for 
> the VM Cool-warm inks.  All the prints
> look very yellow-brown, and I suppose that's the reason. Also, I'm on a 
> Mac, so I suppose there would be a difference.
> 
> I'm still getting banding, mild, but noticeable. It is worse on some of 
> your curves than others, Just can't seem to
> get rid of it. I guess I'll have to send the printer in to Epson .
> 
> Jer
>

Hi All,
     After I posted I was getting poor results with the Paul Roark
curves, Paul very kindly sent me Tyler's curves.  The difference is like
night and day.  I've tried all 5 of Tyler's curves and they all provide
the same overall density with just subtle differences in toning.  It's
great.  No weird posturization effects or variations in shadow or
highlight density.  The differences in tone from normal to medium warm
or normal to platinum are subtle, but definitely effective and easy to
see when you compare results that are a couple shades apart.  I still
find I need to increase the contrast of the image about 20%, which is
way beyond what looks good on my screen, but making that adjustment
become part of my normal workfflow is definitely not a problem.
     Last night I actually printed four 5x7s in a row without a clog or
ink starvation effect becoming apparent.  Part of Tyler's settings were
to uncheck the "hi speed" box in the driver, which I don't remember
reading before, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.  But
I'm finally starting to see there might at least be potential for me to
obtain decent B&W digitally.  I've got another 8 weeks before my house
if done and I need to move, so I'll spend that time concentrating on
shooting with my D100, reading this list, learning Photoshop, and fine
tuning the print results to see if I need to build and set up the
darkroom in the new house.
     Thanks to all for the help so far.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

I have been using Tyler's curves with success for about a year 
after experiencing your same issues.

Then, after reading the posts over the last couple of days, I tried 
Paul's 1290 curves for photo rag on my 1280. The  results were 
very nice. The neutral and cool curves give my test file a slight 
bump in contrast over the Tyler curve applied to the same file 
and a bit better separation in some troubling low gray value 
areas I've been trying to work out. It's worth a try. Paul has 
included a PDF with machine settings. BTW: I'm on a Mac

Thanks to both,

Jeff





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed 
Mathews" <ed@l...> wrote:
> Hi All,
>      After I posted I was getting poor results with the Paul Roark
> curves, Paul very kindly sent me Tyler's curves.  The difference 
is like
> night and day.  I've tried all 5 of Tyler's curves and they all 
provide
> the same overall density with just subtle differences in toning.  
It's
> great.  No weird posturization effects or variations in shadow or
> highlight density.  The differences in tone from normal to 
medium warm
> or normal to platinum are subtle, but definitely effective and 
easy to
> see when you compare results that are a couple shades apart.  
I still
> find I need to increase the contrast of the image about 20%, 
which is
> way beyond what looks good on my screen, but making that 
adjustment
> become part of my normal workfflow is definitely not a problem.
>      Last night I actually printed four 5x7s in a row without a clog 
or
> ink starvation effect becoming apparent.  Part of Tyler's settings 
were
> to uncheck the "hi speed" box in the driver, which I don't 
remember
> reading before, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.  
But
> I'm finally starting to see there might at least be potential for 
me to
> obtain decent B&W digitally.  I've got another 8 weeks before 
my house
> if done and I need to move, so I'll spend that time concentrating 
on
> shooting with my D100, reading this list, learning Photoshop, 
and fine

> tuning the print results to see if I need to build and set up the
> darkroom in the new house.
>      Thanks to all for the help so far.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com