Digital BW, The Print

I just came from the Epson site and read the specs on the Epson 
Stylus 1280 which seems to be the norm on this newsgroup, and was 
surprised to find it has only 48 nozzles on the black cartridge. The 
new Canon i950 has 512 nozzles on its' printhead to be used for 
printing black ink. My question is--why would I want to buy an Epson 
when the Canon seems to be superiorly suited for the type of printing 
I do?  use Black Only printing and want a printer to reduce the size 
and visibility of the black ink dots. Someone lead me in the right 
direction to make a decision between the two printers. None of the 
retail outlets ever have any way of really printing a real world 
image from one of my image files. I can only rely on input from this 
newsgroup, so plese don't let me down.

Your friend in photography

Johnny Eades

Hi Johnny,

The major advantage of the Epson printers is that they allow the use of pigmented ink which has considerably more permanence than does the dye based inks plus CIS/CFS systems are readibly available. The Canon Head Technology requires a fluid that is not capable (at least for now) of keeping pigment in suspension.

On a print to print comparison (I have both Canon & Epson printers) using dye based ink the Canon has more going for it . The quality of the print is pretty much equivelent to my eye and the Canon is at least four times as fast. The Canon cartidges are a bit pricy but probably not too much more than Epson OEM when you have to toss the Epson color cartidge when only a single color is gone rather than being able to replace single colors.  If Canon ever gets off its dead rear and makes the heads available then it raises a couple of interesting possibilities such as being able to use the Lyson inks interchangably. 

At this point, for serious B&W printing Epson pretty much owns the game. One would hope that competition will develop but I'm not going to hold my breath for now.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Johnny Eades <jeades1@...> [mailto:jeades1@...]
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:42 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Number of Nozzles--Better?


  I just came from the Epson site and read the specs on the Epson 
  Stylus 1280 which seems to be the norm on this newsgroup, and was 
  surprised to find it has only 48 nozzles on the black cartridge. The 
  new Canon i950 has 512 nozzles on its' printhead to be used for 
  printing black ink. My question is--why would I want to buy an Epson 
  when the Canon seems to be superiorly suited for the type of printing 
  I do?  use Black Only printing and want a printer to reduce the size 
  and visibility of the black ink dots. Someone lead me in the right 
  direction to make a decision between the two printers. None of the 
  retail outlets ever have any way of really printing a real world 
  image from one of my image files. I can only rely on input from this 
  newsgroup, so plese don't let me down.

  Your friend in photography

  Johnny Eades


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In VERY simplistic terms, the Epson technology is distinctly different than
Canon.

If you want to think of Epson as small air brushes, then you have to look at
Canonn as "farting" ink bubbles onto the paper.  In reality, that's how
bubble jet works.

Seth

=printing black ink. My question is--why would I want to buy an Epson 
=when the Canon seems to be superiorly suited for the type of printing 
=I do?  use Black Only printing and want a printer to reduce the size 
=and visibility of the black ink dots. Someone lead me in the right 
=direction to make a decision between the two printers. None of the

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades 
<jeades1@s...>" <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> I just came from the Epson site and read the specs on the Epson 
> Stylus 1280 which seems to be the norm on this newsgroup, and was 
> surprised to find it has only 48 nozzles on the black cartridge. 
The 
> new Canon i950 has 512 nozzles on its' printhead to be used for 
> printing black ink. My question is--why would I want to buy an 
Epson 
> when the Canon seems to be superiorly suited for the type of 
printing 
> I do?  use Black Only printing and want a printer to reduce the 
size 
> and visibility of the black ink dots. Someone lead me in the right 
> direction to make a decision between the two printers. None of the 
> retail outlets ever have any way of really printing a real world 
> image from one of my image files. I can only rely on input from 
this 
> newsgroup, so plese don't let me down.
> 
> Your friend in photography
> 
> Johnny Eades


Hi Johnny,

The Canon uses "Bubble Jet" technology which uses heat to create a 
bubble in the ink chamber which, in turn, forces a drop of ink out.  
I think the reason it has more nozzles than the Epson is that it 
doesn't use all of them all of the time due to heat build up.  I 
think I read that in Harald Johnson's book, "Mastering Digital 
Printing".

Tom Husband

Added after several responses to the message below. None of the 
messages referred to the nozzle count.Do more nozzles available make 
for a better and smoother print in Black only printing. 512 opposed 
to 48. Does anyone know?





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades 
<jeades1@s...>" <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> I just came from the Epson site and read the specs on the Epson 
> Stylus 1280 which seems to be the norm on this newsgroup, and was 
> surprised to find it has only 48 nozzles on the black cartridge. 
The 
> new Canon i950 has 512 nozzles on its' printhead to be used for 
> printing black ink. My question is--why would I want to buy an 
Epson 
> when the Canon seems to be superiorly suited for the type of 
printing 
> I do?  use Black Only printing and want a printer to reduce the 
size 
> and visibility of the black ink dots. Someone lead me in the right 
> direction to make a decision between the two printers. None of the 
> retail outlets ever have any way of really printing a real world 
> image from one of my image files. I can only rely on input from 
this 

> newsgroup, so plese don't let me down.
> 
> Your friend in photography
> 
> Johnny Eades

Sorry, you are asking about 48 nozzles on one technology against 512 nozzles
on a printer with a totally different way of doing things.  

Each manufacturer would say yes.

Seth

=-----Original Message-----
=From: Johnny Eades <jeades1@...> [mailto:jeades1@...] 
=
=Added after several responses to the message below. None of the 
=messages referred to the nozzle count.Do more nozzles available make 
=for a better and smoother print in Black only printing. 512 opposed 
=to 48. Does anyone know?
=
=

----- Original Message -----

From: <jeades1@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:11 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Number of Nozzles--Better?


> Added after several responses to the message below. None of the
> messages referred to the nozzle count.Do more nozzles available
make
> for a better and smoother print in Black only printing. 512
opposed
> to 48. Does anyone know?

Nozzle quantity often reflects higher printing speeds. Depending
on the driver it could give smoother printing. For example the
10000,10000CF and 10600 are Epson's high speed wide format models
with the highest number of nozzles per head of all the wide
format models. When the 10000 was launched it was for high
production in the first place, later on Epson added an 8 stroke
black ink only print setting that gives very nice monochrome
prints. So if the driver is meant for speed only then more
nozzles doesn't help in better prints.

I have no knowledge of the Canon printers, speed seems to be good
as far as I know. If there isn't a Canon driver that has a
special extra extra quality for monochrome prints you could check
whether GIMP-print could cover that now or get a setting added on
request. I even don't know whether Canons can be driven by
GIMP-print.

Ernst

Hello Ernst,

Thank you for your enlightening answer; so far it's the only one that 
clarifies the reason for number of nozzles. It doesn't necessarily 
mean better output for the prints, just faster. I belong to another 
newsgroup for Canon printers and there is some information trickling 
in there too. Now I'm back to where I started---Epson or Canon? There 
are so many workflows for the Epson that make it appealing and the 
refilling of cartridges which offsets the price of ink that is making 
me think twice and lean toward Epson now. Decisions! Decisions!

Your friend in photography,

Johnny Eades

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ernst Dinkla" 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jeades1@s...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:11 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Number of Nozzles--Better?
> 
> 
> > Added after several responses to the message below. None of the
> > messages referred to the nozzle count.Do more nozzles available
> make
> > for a better and smoother print in Black only printing. 512
> opposed
> > to 48. Does anyone know?
> 
> Nozzle quantity often reflects higher printing speeds. Depending
> on the driver it could give smoother printing. For example the
> 10000,10000CF and 10600 are Epson's high speed wide format models
> with the highest number of nozzles per head of all the wide
> format models. When the 10000 was launched it was for high
> production in the first place, later on Epson added an 8 stroke
> black ink only print setting that gives very nice monochrome
> prints. So if the driver is meant for speed only then more
> nozzles doesn't help in better prints.
> 
> I have no knowledge of the Canon printers, speed seems to be good
> as far as I know. If there isn't a Canon driver that has a
> special extra extra quality for monochrome prints you could check
> whether GIMP-print could cover that now or get a setting added on
> request. I even don't know whether Canons can be driven by
> GIMP-print.
> 
> Ernst