Digital BW, The Print

Chris, MIS told me on the phone that you can intermix the eboni ink and 
the VM inkset with no problems.
That is why I just ordered a bottle of eboni, to use with my VM inkset. 
That is the exact opposite of what they
told you. VERY strange! They said all the ultratone inks are compatible 
with their
older inksets, but that they are still experimental, and no refunds or 
returns can be given if you order their
4.3 inks now. They said further testing must be done before they put 
their regular guarantee on the new inkset.


Has anybody actually done this?

If the Eboni ink can be used with the older VM inkset I would think it 
HAS to be compatible with that ink!

Jerry



Chris Hargens wrote:

> I just ordered a bottle of Eboni black from MIS to replace my current 
> VM black. Their representative confirmed over the phone that it would 
> be necessary to change the black cart in my CFS, that the ink cannot 
> just be poured in in the bottle. The black cart with attached tube is 
> not listed on their Website (only the cart set), but it can be 
> purchased separately. The one for the 1160 costs $15 (CFC-108). 
> Also, I'd be interested in hearing results the beta users are having 
> with the "Ultra-Tone" bw inkset - 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/ultratone.html In 
> particular, how well does the PK black with inkset print on various 
> glossy papers. If something like a fiber-based/looking archival 
> inkjet paper (Oriental?) comes out soon and this inkset prints 
> without bronzing on it, that would satisfy my most of my desires.
> 
> Chris Hargens
> 
> 
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At 04:24 PM 3/12/2003, you wrote:
>Chris, MIS told me on the phone that you can intermix the eboni ink and
>the VM inkset with no problems.
>That is why I just ordered a bottle of eboni, to use with my VM inkset.
>That is the exact opposite of what they
>told you. VERY strange! They said all the ultratone inks are compatible
>with their
>older inksets, but that they are still experimental, and no refunds or
>returns can be given if you order their
>4.3 inks now. They said further testing must be done before they put
>their regular guarantee on the new inkset.
>
>
>Has anybody actually done this?
>
>If the Eboni ink can be used with the older VM inkset I would think it
>HAS to be compatible with that ink!
>
>Jerry

The website article doesn't say the inks are not compatible. It says

>On Epson desktop printers, using cartridges, there is no need to flush out 
>old inks before using the Ultra-Tones. After a couple of cleaning cycles 
>the old ink will be gone. Of course if you had been using Lyson" or 
>Luminous" inks, then the use of a cleaning or flushing cartridge is 
>definatley recommended.
>
>On Epson printers using Continuous Flow, a new virgin empty Continuous 
>Flow cartridge will be required. This is because there is no way to get 
>the residual ink in the sponges out of the cartridge. It will mix with the 
>new inks, and can take as many as 5 cartridge loads worth of ink to reach 
>the 95% point. This means every print you make will be different for a 
>long time. It is not worth the battle not to start with a virgin CFS cart.
>
>On Epson wide format printers (3000, 5000, 7000, 7500, 9000, 9500) the use 
>of flushing or cleaning cartridges is recommended. There is just too much 
>residual ink in the tubes and dampers to make a clean switch to the new 
>inks with out using cleaning carts.

So it's a mixing problem that will cause the printing to be unpredictable, 
not a compatibility (chemical, or pH) problem.

Stan

================================
Photography by Stan McQueen
http://www.smcqueen.com

According to the MIS website, 

"On Epson printers using Continuous Flow, a new virgin empty 
Continuous Flow cartridge will be required. This is because there is 
no way to get the residual ink in the sponges out of the cartridge. 
It will mix with the new inks, and can take as many as 5 cartridge 
loads worth of ink to reach the 95% point. This means every print you 
make will be different for a long time. It is not worth the battle 
not to start with a virgin CFS cart."

I'm not sure what this means, however. True, if you're planning on 
loading the whole inkset, along with the PK black, to print on glossy 
paper, then you wouldn't want to mix the earlier VM inkset with the 
UltraTones. However, if you're only going to be replacing the VM 
black with the Eboni (matte) black, then it seems to me that mixing 
would not be an issue, at least as far as the initial look of the 
print. But expectations/claims for archivality are different for the 
two blacks and mixing them would mean that for a while ("5 cartridge 
loads worth of ink"?) you would be in a kind of limbo regarding  
expectations or claims you make for your prints. 

Chris

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Chris, MIS told me on the phone that you can intermix the eboni ink 
and 
> the VM inkset with no problems.
> That is why I just ordered a bottle of eboni, to use with my VM 
inkset. 
> That is the exact opposite of what they
> told you. VERY strange! They said all the ultratone inks are 
compatible 
> with their
> older inksets, but that they are still experimental, and no refunds 
or 
> returns can be given if you order their
> 4.3 inks now. They said further testing must be done before they 
put 
> their regular guarantee on the new inkset.
> 
> 
> Has anybody actually done this?
> 
> If the Eboni ink can be used with the older VM inkset I would think 
it 
> HAS to be compatible with that ink!
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Hargens wrote:
> > I just ordered a bottle of Eboni black from MIS to replace my 
current 
> > VM black. Their representative confirmed over the phone that it 
would 
> > be necessary to change the black cart in my CFS, that the ink 
cannot 
> > just be poured in in the bottle. The black cart with attached 
tube is 
> > not listed on their Website (only the cart set), but it can be 
> > purchased separately. The one for the 1160 costs $15 (CFC-108). 
> > Also, I'd be interested in hearing results the beta users are 
having 
> > with the "Ultra-Tone" bw inkset - 
> > http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/ultratone.html In 
> > particular, how well does the PK black with inkset print on 
various 
> > glossy papers. If something like a fiber-based/looking archival 
> > inkjet paper (Oriental?) comes out soon and this inkset prints 
> > without bronzing on it, that would satisfy my most of my desires.
> > 
> > Chris Hargens
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage. 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

> > 
> > 
> >

Ah, well In my case, I'm starting with a New CIS, and will never be
using glossy paper.

Jerry





Chris Hargens wrote:

> 
> According to the MIS website,
> 
> "On Epson printers using Continuous Flow, a new virgin empty
> Continuous Flow cartridge will be required. This is because there is
> no way to get the residual ink in the sponges out of the cartridge.
> It will mix with the new inks, and can take as many as 5 cartridge
> loads worth of ink to reach the 95% point. This means every print you
> make will be different for a long time. It is not worth the battle
> not to start with a virgin CFS cart."
> 
> I'm not sure what this means, however. True, if you're planning on
> loading the whole inkset, along with the PK black, to print on glossy
> paper, then you wouldn't want to mix the earlier VM inkset with the
> UltraTones. However, if you're only going to be replacing the VM
> black with the Eboni (matte) black, then it seems to me that mixing
> would not be an issue, at least as far as the initial look of the
> print. But expectations/claims for archivality are different for the
> two blacks and mixing them would mean that for a while ("5 cartridge
> loads worth of ink"?) you would be in a kind of limbo regarding
> expectations or claims you make for your prints.
> 
> Chris
>