Digital BW, The Print

Antonis and Robert,

I downloaded OPM and congratulate all those involved for such a 
straightforward and elegant application.

I tried Antonis' two profiles plus some blends on my 2200.  Great 
step wedges and separation, and beautiful images, but with two 
problems.

The 100% patch (and only the 100% patch) had banding, and there was a 
braid-looking effect in images on thin objects (things that look like 
pipes, for example).

To eliminate my 2200 as the cause of the problem, I did a nozzle 
check and printed my test image and step wedges through two other 
printing applications.  These were all perfect and didn't exhibit 
either of the OPM problems.

Any ideas what is happening? 

Thanks to all who participated in this project.  It looks better than 
IP 5 and is easier to use than anything else I've tried.

A few other questions.  IJC, as purchased, will have a full array of 
profiles, correct?  And, do you know which printers will be covered 
besides those currently in the free OPM download?

Helene

Helene,

I'm also using IJC/OPM with a 2200 and have not seen any banding in my  
step-wedges - absolutely smooth in all patches (viewed with an 8x  
loupe).  The profiles provided with IJC are exactly the same ones that  
are in the free OPM download.

Carl

On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 10:21  AM, grdglass wrote:

> Antonis and Robert,
>
> I downloaded OPM and congratulate all those involved for such a
> straightforward and elegant application.
>
> I tried Antonis' two profiles plus some blends on my 2200.  Great
> step wedges and separation, and beautiful images, but with two
> problems.
>
> The 100% patch (and only the 100% patch) had banding, and there was a
> braid-looking effect in images on thin objects (things that look like
> pipes, for example).
>
> To eliminate my 2200 as the cause of the problem, I did a nozzle
> check and printed my test image and step wedges through two other
> printing applications.  These were all perfect and didn't exhibit
> either of the OPM problems.
>
> Any ideas what is happening?
>
> Thanks to all who participated in this project.  It looks better than
> IP 5 and is easier to use than anything else I've tried.
>
> A few other questions.  IJC, as purchased, will have a full array of
> profiles, correct?  And, do you know which printers will be covered
> besides those currently in the free OPM download?
>
> Helene
>
>
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>
>

Likewise with my 2200...everything looks good.  Helene, have you recently
done the head alignment calibrations on the paper you are using?  In order
to trouble shoot this more completely you would need the IJC application to
actually run single channel scales.  I have banding in two channels of my
7000...and perfect nozzle checks...its likely head starvation.   With IJC
and quad printers you can simply move inks around or deemphasize these
channels in the profile to avoid the banding...but with a 2200 there is
probably not much you can do other than return the printer to Epson and try
another...unless you switch the printer over to a quad solution like the new
MIS Ultra-Quad inks.

Robert


3/30/03 7:44 AM, "Carl Schofield" <scho@...> wrote:

> Helene,
> 
> I'm also using IJC/OPM with a 2200 and have not seen any banding in my
> step-wedges - absolutely smooth in all patches (viewed with an 8x
> loupe).  The profiles provided with IJC are exactly the same ones that
> are in the free OPM download.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 10:21  AM, grdglass wrote:
> 
>> Antonis and Robert,
>> 
>> I downloaded OPM and congratulate all those involved for such a
>> straightforward and elegant application.
>> 
>> I tried Antonis' two profiles plus some blends on my 2200.  Great
>> step wedges and separation, and beautiful images, but with two
>> problems.
>> 
>> The 100% patch (and only the 100% patch) had banding, and there was a
>> braid-looking effect in images on thin objects (things that look like
>> pipes, for example).
>> 
>> To eliminate my 2200 as the cause of the problem, I did a nozzle
>> check and printed my test image and step wedges through two other
>> printing applications.  These were all perfect and didn't exhibit
>> either of the OPM problems.
>> 
>> Any ideas what is happening?
>> 
>> Thanks to all who participated in this project.  It looks better than
>> IP 5 and is easier to use than anything else I've tried.
>> 
>> A few other questions.  IJC, as purchased, will have a full array of
>> profiles, correct?  And, do you know which printers will be covered
>> besides those currently in the free OPM download?
>> 
>> Helene
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ---------------------~-->
>> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back!
>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/ucIolB/TM
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ~->
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
>> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
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>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
>> keep them short.
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>> header.
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>> "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
>> various resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Helene,

thanks for the kind words!....  

Adding to what Robert and Carl have already said: banding of this sort is not 
likely to be profile related or even software related (dither etc). Possibly the 
black head is doing something that is exaggerated by the profile, but not 
caused by it. 

If you were able to open the profile in IJC, you would see that at 100% there 
is very little gray running and nothing else (with the WARM profile). With other 
profiles/workflows it's possible that all jets are firing to some extend and that 
would hide whatever the black head is doing. 

Eventually I may upload single-jet profiles for troubleshooting purposes, but, 
of course, if you have IJC you can just choose to automatically print each of 
the active inks in a chosen profile separately as an individual grayscale. You 
can then isolate the problem better. For example in the case of a 2200 WARM 
profile, you would automatically get two grayscales printed - the gray ink first, 
and below it the black ink - and you can then see if one head is banding and 
the other not.

I use this all the time to check my printers before making prints. The nozzle 
checks don't tell the whole story. They could show clean,  but a certain head 
may band. Runnning head cleanings sometimes solves the banding, even 
though nozzle checks continue to look clean. The easiest way to check 
afterwards is to run the IJC separate-ink scales again. Besides banding, they 
also show where an ink starts and ends and how it behaves across the scale. 
They serve to verify what the profile is doing. 

Regarding your question about the shipping profiles: IJC / OPM are not 
meant to encourage the use of canned profiles. They ship with some as 
examples and some just because those of us doing beta tests made them . But 
the idea is you can make your own - probably just by tweaking the shipping 
ones. Eventually we will be exchanging profiles (by uploading to the files 
section of this list), so a larger variety will be available. Even so, the 
maximum benefit of IJC comes from enabling you to fine tune a profile to your 
particular printing setup.

The supported printers are the same as the free OPM download. It is free not 
because it is a "limited" demo, but because it is based on Open Source code 
- like gimp print - and what you see is what you get (i.e. the free download is 
the complete, full functioning version) and its code is in the public domain. 
The "catch" if you will, is that without IJC (the for-pay part), you are limited to 
canned profiles and their limitations.


Antonis


Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "grdglass" 
<grdglass@a...> wrote:

> To eliminate my 2200 as the cause of the problem, I did a nozzle 
> check and printed my test image and step wedges through two other 
> printing applications.  These were all perfect and didn't exhibit 
> either of the OPM problems.
> 
> Any ideas what is happening? 

 
> A few other questions.  IJC, as purchased, will have a full array of 
> profiles, correct?  And, do you know which printers will be covered 
> besides those currently in the free OPM download?
> 
> Helene

Antonis and Robert,

Thanks for your suggestions.  I have run a couple of cleaning cycles 
and performed an alignment on my 2200.  Neither worked.  I also 
worked up a new test file, just in case the file I had been using was 
corrupted.  No luck.

So, I am stuck for awhile, because I am running OPM off an iBook that 
I do not use for image editing.  I use a PC for images and will have 
to wait for IJC for Windows before I can check out my 2200.  I have 
no need to buy both platform versions.

Antonis, since I see the banding in only the 100% patch with OPM, 
does that mean the problem definitely lies in the black jet?  Would 
your black single-jet profile for troubleshooting tell me anything 
definitive?

Helene 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Helene,
> 
> thanks for the kind words!....  
> 
> Adding to what Robert and Carl have already said: banding of this 
sort is not 
> likely to be profile related or even software related (dither etc). 
Possibly the 
> black head is doing something that is exaggerated by the profile, 
but not 
> caused by it. 
> 
> If you were able to open the profile in IJC, you would see that at 
100% there 
> is very little gray running and nothing else (with the WARM 
profile). With other 
> profiles/workflows it's possible that all jets are firing to some 
extend and that 
> would hide whatever the black head is doing. 
> 
> Eventually I may upload single-jet profiles for troubleshooting 
purposes, but, 
> of course, if you have IJC you can just choose to automatically 
print each of 
> the active inks in a chosen profile separately as an individual 
grayscale. You 
> can then isolate the problem better. For example in the case of a 
2200 WARM 
> profile, you would automatically get two grayscales printed - the 
gray ink first, 
> and below it the black ink - and you can then see if one head is 
banding and 
> the other not.
> 
> I use this all the time to check my printers before making prints. 
The nozzle 
> checks don't tell the whole story. They could show clean,  but a 
certain head 
> may band. Runnning head cleanings sometimes solves the banding, 
even 
> though nozzle checks continue to look clean. The easiest way to 
check 
> afterwards is to run the IJC separate-ink scales again. Besides 
banding, they 
> also show where an ink starts and ends and how it behaves across 
the scale. 
> They serve to verify what the profile is doing. 
> 
> Regarding your question about the shipping profiles: IJC / OPM are 
not 
> meant to encourage the use of canned profiles. They ship with some 
as 
> examples and some just because those of us doing beta tests made 
them . But 
> the idea is you can make your own - probably just by tweaking the 
shipping 
> ones. Eventually we will be exchanging profiles (by uploading to 
the files 
> section of this list), so a larger variety will be available. Even 
so, the 
> maximum benefit of IJC comes from enabling you to fine tune a 
profile to your 
> particular printing setup.
> 
> The supported printers are the same as the free OPM download. It is 
free not 
> because it is a "limited" demo, but because it is based on Open 
Source code 
> - like gimp print - and what you see is what you get (i.e. the free 
download is 
> the complete, full functioning version) and its code is in the 
public domain. 
> The "catch" if you will, is that without IJC (the for-pay part), 
you are limited to 
> canned profiles and their limitations.
> 
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "grdglass" 
> <grdglass@a...> wrote:
> 
> > To eliminate my 2200 as the cause of the problem, I did a nozzle 
> > check and printed my test image and step wedges through two other 
> > printing applications.  These were all perfect and didn't exhibit 
> > either of the OPM problems.
> > 
> > Any ideas what is happening? 
> 
>  
> > A few other questions.  IJC, as purchased, will have a full array 
of 
> > profiles, correct?  And, do you know which printers will be 
covered 

> > besides those currently in the free OPM download?
> > 
> > Helene

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "grdglass" 
<grdglass@a...> wrote:

> Antonis, since I see the banding in only the 100% patch with OPM, 
> does that mean the problem definitely lies in the black jet?  Would 
> your black single-jet profile for troubleshooting tell me anything 
> definitive?


Helene,

I am far from an "expert" on the 2200, though I own one. I am suggesting that a 
black-only print of a grayscale would show you if that head is misbehaving. 

You can do that either with the Epson driver or with OPM and a black-only 
profile. If it misbehaves with the Epson driver in black-only mode, and your 
attempts to fix it fail, you should call Epson and have it replaced (if still under 
warranty). If it doesn't misbehave with Epson's driver, but misbehaves with 
OPM and a black-only profile, then there is something OPM is doing different 
and it bears reporting to bowhaus for a possible fix. 

Perhaps while you are waiting for a black-only IJC profile,  you can try the 
Epson driver and eliminate that scenario. The other variable could be a faulty, 
or near-empty cart - but that's just a guess on my part.

Antonis

I also have a banding problem in the deepest blacks with OPM.  
My 2200 does not show banding in the same file using the 
Epson driver.   I will test it on the IP RIP soon.   The banding is 
subtle (unlike Piezo banding)  and not apparent throughout the 
black areas of the print.  It almost looks like a scuffed print 
surface until I look through a loup and see the dotted lines.  It is 
like the trail of a pizza wheel, but in the wrong direction.

I really like the OPM.  Antonis did a great job on the Warm and 
Cool profiles.  That combined with the blend option makes for a 
very easy to use program that has the potential for quality results.  
I really hope someone has an answer for this banding issue.

Frank
http://www.photoeye.com/frankward
http://www.culturalvisions.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"grdglass" <grdglass@a...> wrote:
> Antonis and Robert,
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions.  I have run a couple of cleaning 
cycles 
> and performed an alignment on my 2200.  Neither worked.  I 
also 
> worked up a new test file, just in case the file I had been using 
was 
> corrupted.  No luck.
> 
> So, I am stuck for awhile, because I am running OPM off an 
iBook that 
> I do not use for image editing.  I use a PC for images and will 
have 
> to wait for IJC for Windows before I can check out my 2200.  I 
have 
> no need to buy both platform versions.
> 
> Antonis, since I see the banding in only the 100% patch with 
OPM, 
> does that mean the problem definitely lies in the black jet?  
Would 
> your black single-jet profile for troubleshooting tell me anything 
> definitive?
> 
> Helene 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"Antonis Ricos" 
> <antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> > Helene,
> > 
> > thanks for the kind words!....  
> > 
> > Adding to what Robert and Carl have already said: banding of 
this 
> sort is not 
> > likely to be profile related or even software related (dither etc). 
> Possibly the 
> > black head is doing something that is exaggerated by the 
profile, 
> but not 
> > caused by it. 
> > 
> > If you were able to open the profile in IJC, you would see that 
at 
> 100% there 
> > is very little gray running and nothing else (with the WARM 
> profile). With other 
> > profiles/workflows it's possible that all jets are firing to some 
> extend and that 
> > would hide whatever the black head is doing. 
> > 
> > Eventually I may upload single-jet profiles for troubleshooting 
> purposes, but, 
> > of course, if you have IJC you can just choose to 
automatically 
> print each of 
> > the active inks in a chosen profile separately as an individual 
> grayscale. You 
> > can then isolate the problem better. For example in the case 
of a 
> 2200 WARM 
> > profile, you would automatically get two grayscales printed - 
the 
> gray ink first, 
> > and below it the black ink - and you can then see if one head 
is 
> banding and 
> > the other not.
> > 
> > I use this all the time to check my printers before making 
prints. 
> The nozzle 
> > checks don't tell the whole story. They could show clean,  but 
a 
> certain head 
> > may band. Runnning head cleanings sometimes solves the 
banding, 
> even 
> > though nozzle checks continue to look clean. The easiest 
way to 
> check 
> > afterwards is to run the IJC separate-ink scales again. 
Besides 
> banding, they 
> > also show where an ink starts and ends and how it behaves 
across 
> the scale. 
> > They serve to verify what the profile is doing. 
> > 
> > Regarding your question about the shipping profiles: IJC / 
OPM are 
> not 
> > meant to encourage the use of canned profiles. They ship 
with some 
> as 
> > examples and some just because those of us doing beta 
tests made 
> them . But 
> > the idea is you can make your own - probably just by 
tweaking the 
> shipping 
> > ones. Eventually we will be exchanging profiles (by uploading 
to 
> the files 
> > section of this list), so a larger variety will be available. Even 
> so, the 
> > maximum benefit of IJC comes from enabling you to fine 
tune a 
> profile to your 
> > particular printing setup.
> > 
> > The supported printers are the same as the free OPM 
download. It is 
> free not 
> > because it is a "limited" demo, but because it is based on 
Open 
> Source code 
> > - like gimp print - and what you see is what you get (i.e. the 
free 
> download is 
> > the complete, full functioning version) and its code is in the 
> public domain. 
> > The "catch" if you will, is that without IJC (the for-pay part), 
> you are limited to 
> > canned profiles and their limitations.
> > 
> > 
> > Antonis
> > 
> > 
> > Antonis
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"grdglass" 
> > <grdglass@a...> wrote:
> > 
> > > To eliminate my 2200 as the cause of the problem, I did a 
nozzle 
> > > check and printed my test image and step wedges through 
two other 
> > > printing applications.  These were all perfect and didn't 
exhibit 
> > > either of the OPM problems.
> > > 
> > > Any ideas what is happening? 
> > 
> >  
> > > A few other questions.  IJC, as purchased, will have a full 
array 

> of 
> > > profiles, correct?  And, do you know which printers will be 
> covered 
> > > besides those currently in the free OPM download?
> > > 
> > > Helene

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"culturalvisions" <fmward@h...> wrote:
> I also have a banding problem in the deepest blacks with OPM.  
> My 2200 does not show banding in the same file using the 
> Epson driver.   I will test it on the IP RIP soon.   The banding is 
> subtle (unlike Piezo banding)  and not apparent throughout the 
> black areas of the print.  It almost looks like a scuffed print 
> surface until I look through a loup and see the dotted lines.  It 
is 
> like the trail of a pizza wheel, but in the wrong direction.


Banding in the blacks could be an indication of ink starvation. I've 
seen this while finding the best media type in the epson driver 
for certain papers.

Thanks Frank..... I will soon upload Carl's revision of the cool profile which 
should offer a further improvement over mine. I just wanted to do some 
densitometry with it first (and I have a bit of a time crunch!).

As for the banding... I'll test with my 2200 and if I don't see it, I'll have to 
assume it's an individual printer issue, not a driver issue (even if OPM shows 
it more than other drivers). Did you test with black-only on the Epson driver?

Antonis


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "culturalvisions" 
<fmward@h...> wrote:

> I also have a banding problem in the deepest blacks with OPM.  
> My 2200 does not show banding in the same file using the 
> Epson driver.   I will test it on the IP RIP soon.   The banding is 
> subtle (unlike Piezo banding)  and not apparent throughout the 
> black areas of the print.  It almost looks like a scuffed print 
> surface until I look through a loup and see the dotted lines.  It is 
> like the trail of a pizza wheel, but in the wrong direction.
> 
> I really like the OPM.  Antonis did a great job on the Warm and 
> Cool profiles.  That combined with the blend option makes for a 
> very easy to use program that has the potential for quality results.  
> I really hope someone has an answer for this banding issue.
> 
> Frank
> http://www.photoeye.com/frankward
> http://www.culturalvisions.com

I think using a cool curve with a 2:1 ratio of magenta to cyan should blend
with the warm curve to make a fantastic selenium tone option.  I'm out on
the road now...but I was close to such a profile before I left and will
finish it when I get back in another week...unless Carl wants to knock it
off for us in the meantime...should be easy to do with the ink limit
feature.  Just take your magenta/cyan profile and increase the ink limit on
cyan while decreasing the ink limit on magenta...then relinearize.

Robert

On 4/1/03 10:09 AM, "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...> wrote:

> Thanks Frank..... I will soon upload Carl's revision of the cool profile which
> should offer a further improvement over mine. I just wanted to do some
> densitometry with it first (and I have a bit of a time crunch!).
> 
> As for the banding... I'll test with my 2200 and if I don't see it, I'll have
> to 
> assume it's an individual printer issue, not a driver issue (even if OPM shows
> it more than other drivers). Did you test with black-only on the Epson driver?
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "culturalvisions"
> <fmward@h...> wrote:
>> I also have a banding problem in the deepest blacks with OPM.
>> My 2200 does not show banding in the same file using the
>> Epson driver.   I will test it on the IP RIP soon.   The banding is
>> subtle (unlike Piezo banding)  and not apparent throughout the
>> black areas of the print.  It almost looks like a scuffed print
>> surface until I look through a loup and see the dotted lines.  It is
>> like the trail of a pizza wheel, but in the wrong direction.
>> 
>> I really like the OPM.  Antonis did a great job on the Warm and
>> Cool profiles.  That combined with the blend option makes for a
>> very easy to use program that has the potential for quality results.
>> I really hope someone has an answer for this banding issue.
>> 
>> Frank
>> http://www.photoeye.com/frankward
>> http://www.culturalvisions.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Robert,

Thanks for the suggestions for a selenium tone profile.  I'm still a  
novice at profile building with IJC and don't have a densitometer yet  
(should have one soon though) so I can't do any linearization at the  
moment.  I'll look forward to seeing what you develop for the selenium  
tone option and hopefully learn more from the profiles that you and  
Antonis develop.  I can see how the ink limit adjustments are an  
effective way of adjusting overall tone, with out affecting curve  
shape.  When you suggested a 2:1 ratio of M/C for the cool profile did  
you mean relative M/C curve amplitudes or measured M/C values?

Carl

On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 09:08  PM, Robert Morrison wrote:

> I think using a cool curve with a 2:1 ratio of magenta to cyan should  
> blend
> with the warm curve to make a fantastic selenium tone option.  I'm out  
> on
> the road now...but I was close to such a profile before I left and will
> finish it when I get back in another week...unless Carl wants to knock  
> it
> off for us in the meantime...should be easy to do with the ink limit
> feature.  Just take your magenta/cyan profile and increase the ink  
> limit on
> cyan while decreasing the ink limit on magenta...then relinearize.
>
> Robert
>
> On 4/1/03 10:09 AM, "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Frank..... I will soon upload Carl's revision of the cool  
>> profile which
>> should offer a further improvement over mine. I just wanted to do some
>> densitometry with it first (and I have a bit of a time crunch!).
>>
>> As for the banding... I'll test with my 2200 and if I don't see it,  
>> I'll have
>> to
>> assume it's an individual printer issue, not a driver issue (even if  
>> OPM shows
>> it more than other drivers). Did you test with black-only on the  
>> Epson driver?
>>
>> Antonis
>>
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "culturalvisions"
>> <fmward@h...> wrote:
>>> I also have a banding problem in the deepest blacks with OPM.
>>> My 2200 does not show banding in the same file using the
>>> Epson driver.   I will test it on the IP RIP soon.   The banding is
>>> subtle (unlike Piezo banding)  and not apparent throughout the
>>> black areas of the print.  It almost looks like a scuffed print
>>> surface until I look through a loup and see the dotted lines.  It is
>>> like the trail of a pizza wheel, but in the wrong direction.
>>>
>>> I really like the OPM.  Antonis did a great job on the Warm and
>>> Cool profiles.  That combined with the blend option makes for a
>>> very easy to use program that has the potential for quality results.
>>> I really hope someone has an answer for this banding issue.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>> http://www.photoeye.com/frankward
>>> http://www.culturalvisions.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
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>>
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Carl,

from reading what Robert said, I imagine he means the ratio of the ink limits 
for each ink (Magenta and Cyan). Remember that you can save (export) a 
curve out of one ink and import it into another, thus matching the two 
completely as they track across the scale. Then, by using ink limits you can 
easily play with their ratios without affecting their "shape".

Antonis





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> Robert,
...
  When you suggested a 2:1 ratio of M/C for the cool profile did  

> you mean relative M/C curve amplitudes or measured M/C values?


> On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 09:08  PM, Robert Morrison wrote:
> 
> > I think using a cool curve with a 2:1 ratio of magenta to cyan should  
> > blend
> > with the warm curve to make a fantastic selenium tone option.

Thanks for the tip Antonis.  Yes, I tried that and it did work fairly  
well.  For example, using your base Cool profile I turned on the light  
magenta channel and then imported the light cyan curve (previously  
saved out as a separate curve file) to give a 1:1 C/M starting point  
and then varied the ink limits for light cyan and light magenta.   
Setting the ink limits for light cyan and light magenta at C=8, M=10  
seemed to give a nice, subtle selenium tone appearance in the shadows  
when printing a 50/50 blend with the warm profile.  Varying the ink  
limit ratio by as little as 2 points had a significant effect on  
overall tone so the ink limit adjustment is quite sensitive.  I did  
also drop the magenta curve slightly in the highlights to keep them  
neutral.  These experiments were with Eclipse Satine.

Carl

On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 06:20  PM, Antonis Ricos wrote:

> Carl,
>
> from reading what Robert said, I imagine he means the ratio of the ink  
> limits
> for each ink (Magenta and Cyan). Remember that you can save (export) a
> curve out of one ink and import it into another, thus matching the two
> completely as they track across the scale. Then, by using ink limits  
> you can
> easily play with their ratios without affecting their "shape".
>
> Antonis
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
> <scho@m...> wrote:
>> Robert,
> ...
>   When you suggested a 2:1 ratio of M/C for the cool profile did
>> you mean relative M/C curve amplitudes or measured M/C values?
>
>
>> On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 09:08  PM, Robert Morrison wrote:
>>
>>> I think using a cool curve with a 2:1 ratio of magenta to cyan should
>>> blend
>>> with the warm curve to make a fantastic selenium tone option.
>
>
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>

Can someone explain just what the above are.

Thank you
Richard

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Richard,

take a look at this link:


http://www.bowhaus.com/inkjetcontrol/



IJC makes profiles useable in OPM which prints bw with Epson printers under Mac OS 
9. An OS X version is currently under beta and should be available soon.

You can also search the archives on this list starting at about March or so this year.

Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Corbett" 
<richard@r...> wrote:

> Can someone explain just what the above are.
> 
> Thank you
> Richard

Hello All,

I'm the VP of BowHaus, and the developer of InkJet Control™
and OpenPrintMaker™.  I know it's annoying when manufacturers go on 
discussion boards to hawk their products, so I'm not going to do
that here. 

I just wanted to thank Antonis for announcing the latest version of
our software.  Antonis has been a tremendous IJC/OPM supporter from the
very beginning.  His input and feedback was invaluable during the
development of this software.

Inkjet Control™ and OpenPrintMaker™ was created for serious
B&W Digital printmakers like the members of this list.  I have always been
passionate about black and white printmaking, and for me, I needed more 
control then previously existed.  So that's why I developed IJC/OPM - it wa=
s
to give the "control" back to the end user.

Over the last year I have really appreciated all the support from the
list members and wanted to personally thank everyone.


Joe Berndt
BowHaus, Inc.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jbowhaus" 
<joeberndt@v...> wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm the VP of BowHaus, and the developer of InkJet Control™
> and OpenPrintMaker™.  I know it's annoying when manufacturers go on 
> discussion boards to hawk their products, so I'm not going to do
> that here. 
> 
> I just wanted to thank Antonis for announcing the latest version of
> our software.  Antonis has been a tremendous IJC/OPM supporter from 
the
> very beginning.  His input and feedback was invaluable during the
> development of this software.
> 
> Inkjet Control™ and OpenPrintMaker™ was created for serious
> B&W Digital printmakers like the members of this list.  I have 
always been
> passionate about black and white printmaking, and for me, I needed 
more 
> control then previously existed.  So that's why I developed 
IJC/OPM - it wa=
> s
> to give the "control" back to the end user.
> 
> Over the last year I have really appreciated all the support from 
the
> list members and wanted to personally thank everyone.
> 
> 
> Joe Berndt
> BowHaus, Inc.

Hi, Joe,

Did you mean to infer that Windows users are not "serious
B&W Digital printmakers".

I hope not and that you will provide us with equal opportunity 'ere 
long.

Colin

Hi Antonis,

I have been following closely all the comments about IJC/OPM and its release on the Windows platform. Of course, I've been somewhat familiar with it for a couple of years, now, and had researched it for my own B&W printing back when I exclusively used third-party quadtone inksets. However, about a year ago I moved to ImagePrint for both color and B&W output because I was totally fed up with running multiple printers and nozzle checks/cleanings/clogs/etc.

I have been very satisfied with my B&W IP prints on both Epson Velvet and Moab Natural. However, I'm limited to the inks supported by Colorbyte. Though I'm not that interested in endless tweaking of my B&W workflow I am concerned about producing the absolute best B&W prints that I can. Therefore, when I read on this forum that Bowhaus was releasing IJC/OPM on the Windows platform I became intrigued, once again!

Currently, the Epson 2200 with UC inks is my printer of choice driven, as stated above, by IP 6.0 for both color and B&W. But, if I can obtain better output or different "colors" of overall tone--I've never been impressed with IP's sepia tone, for example--that's something that I cannot ignore. If you're familiar with the capability of ImagePrint and its output, could you provide some sort of comparison between IJC/OPM and IP? Specifically, I'm interested in the quality difference (if any), the difficulty of building the profiles (I don't own a densitometer), and the tonality obtainable from cool blue tones to warm sepia tones. I'm assuming here use of the UC inkset on the 2200 or some sort of toning inkset like those available from MIS. But, I do have an Epson 1270 and Epson 1160 lying about, not doing much these days, since I gave up dedicated quadtone printing. One of Jon Cone's Piezotone inksets might be nice to experiment with...

Any insight you might provide would be greatly appreciated as I'm trying to make a buying decision before 1/5/05 (discount on the pre-release version.) Anyone else who would care to voice an opinion, please do.

Thank you,
Alan Huntley

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan,


as with any software, the more control it gives you the more
learning you have to do. Photoshop Elements is easier than
the full version but you also have fewer controls.  For those
who don't want the extra controls IP is fine. I bought the Mac
version when it first came out - about 2 rev numbers ago.
i am not familiar with the current product, but I hear people
are happy with bw and color just as you mention. 

I didn't pursue it because I was frustrated with canned profiles,
and the choices IP made (back then) in their "recipes" for the 
grayscales. For example, they would send me a profile
that allowed tiny white dots to show in the deep shadows
because they cut the "cyan" too soon in trying to get 
better dmax. Even if I had insisted that they fix it, it would
be days before I would get a working profile. Now, if I
make that mistake myself, I fix it in under 5 minutes.

In my book, its worth the learning curve to use IJC and make
your own profiles. The PC version offers a lot of  "handholding"
that the Mac version didn't have. They both work the same
in terms of the underlying "engine", but the PC version will
help you better not to get lost if you are new.

For example, when it launches, IJC will ask what is it that
you want to do - such as start a new profile, tweak an old
one or just change the tone - and take you to the appropriate
tab in the program.  Likewise, it will make it very clear 
if you save a profile with or without linearization embedded.
Also, it gives you good strating profiles or curves so you
are not totally starting from scratch....   etc etc.

I am hoping that for people who are new to it, the interface
adapts to multiple levels of expertise. At the beginning it
tries to guide you more, but as you get experienced you 
can turn off some of the extra dialogs or pop-ups.
Maybe you can ask Bowhaus for the manual and decide
for yourself if you are up to the task (!).

The scanner method of linearizing profiles is better than 
eyeballing but not as accurate as a densitometer.
i haven't done much with the scanner myself. I use an 810
X-Rite - probably not too difficult to find on Ebay these days.
When you are saying that you are trying for the "very best"
in bw printing, you must also decide if you are ready to
learn new software and get whatever equipment it takes.
The "very best" won't come from canned profiles, only
the "easiest", which you've already done. 

Keep in mind that for the PC, there is also StudioPrint
that allows you to build your own profiles. It doesn't
offer the option of the scanner but it works well
with the eyeOne and similar spectros. In fact, it also allows for
automatic entry of the readings from the instruments it
supports.  The catch, of course, is that it is several
times the cost of IJC/OPM in return for which you also
get the benefit of a full RIP (color/bw, postscript option etc).

Currently, OPM for the PC does not have an option for Postscript,
does not allow image imposition (to gang several separate
files in one print job) and does not allow the user to save
settings as a job. IJC (for either platform) accepts any set of numbers 
from either spectro or densitometer, but the 26 numbers have to be
typed in manually. 

As for sepia on the 2200 - i made some "extreme sepia" profiles
for a project I was printing last year that looked terrific. With IJC, there is
no limit other than that of the inks themselves. A full-color
UC set offers more than you'll ever need for toning.
So, whether you decide to bathe the whole image in yellow
or just tint the highlights using an alpha channel - it's all there
for you. I can't tell you how exactly that compares to the current 
version of IP, just that with IJC you can make your own creative decisions
instead of leaving them to someone else, outside the studio.


Antonis


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "A. Huntley" <Alan.Huntley@c...> 
wrote:

......

> Any insight you might provide would be greatly appreciated as I'm trying to make a 
buying decision before 1/5/05 (discount on the pre-release version.) Anyone else who 
would care to voice an opinion, please do.

> 
> Thank you,
> Alan Huntley