Antonis wrote:
>for the sake of statistics: I have not had clogging problems with Museum
>Black in a 9500 - nor with FSK in a 7000.
I've been using Epson Matte black, Museum black, and Eboni and have had no
clogging in either the 7500 or 1160. My sense of it is that the problems
are showing up with CIS systems and those just getting started with new
systems. Once the system is "primed" and working, I'm not sure we have
heard of problems cropping up later.
>...if Eboni had similar viscosity/particle
>size/chemistry to Museum Black (MB), I would expect it to run
>equally well.
I concur.
I suspect that the new high-load inks react with older inks and other
substances in new printers with unfortunate consequences. The only way they
can hold this higher load of pigment is due to some special base. If that
base is altered, I suspect the pigment might suddenly precipitate and cause
major problems. As Ernst indirectly suggested, I'm not even sure we have a
flushing fluid that is appropriate to stop this reaction. What MIS might
need to do is find a new flushing fluid that is known to be compatible with
Eboni, so that the new inks do not run into an old flushing fluid that is
incompatible.
(I have the new UT base -- looks yellow, like p ... well, let's say "tea" --
but I don't think MIS is currently selling it, and I'm not sure that the new
UT base is what Eboni uses. The UT base is largely what is responsible for
that inkset being able to print on RC paper.)
The assumption with desktop printers is that there is so little old ink in
the heads that a few cleaning cycles takes care of the problem. However, I
wonder with CISs if there is something in those sponges that causes the same
problems. MIS says it has a number of CFSs running with Eboni, but I doubt
they test their competitors' CISs.
Didn't Cone run into a problem with the sponges in a CIS reacting with one
of the new PiezoTone inks? In fact, didn't Jon at first say no flushing was
required with PiezoTones, and then switch to a recommendation to flush the
systems? Maybe MIS is having a re-run of the same problems Cone had with
the new inks at first.
>...is there something in the new Epsons
>(22/76/9600) that deals better with these inks?
One reason I purchased a 7500 is my understanding that, while the 7000 is
identical mechanically, there are differences in firmware that are designed
to help the 7500 deal with the problems of pigment inks. I suspect the
UltraChrome printers have these same differences. I don't think it is a
mechanical difference, but rather a more thorough cleaning cycle and
(correct me on this if I misstate it, Ernst) a higher voltage to the head,
perhaps to pump out more ink or pump ink that has a higher viscosity. I
think I have noticed, for example, that the 7500 has a better dmax than the
7000.
>If so, making a clone of the
>UCs and loading them on several-generations-old desktops may not be a
>good idea.
I think that the new inks are not that much different than the older
pigments. I suspect the major difference is pigment v. dye -- which is not
a change from what we've been doing for some time. On the other hand, as
noted previously, I have been told that the viscosity of Museum is close to
the Epson limit.
I've also been told that the particle size of the new inks is much smaller
than the old MIS Archival quad or VM/FS black. So, I don't think particle
size is an issue, but viscosity could be close to the limit with the new
blacks.
I think enough of us are having good experiences with them that it's really
a question of identifying what is causing the problems that some seem to
have. I suppose that is why they should be called "beta" inks until more is
known.
Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
____________
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> My first impression of these "high load" black inks (UltraChrome Matte
> Black, PiezoTone Museum black, and Eboni) was that they printed slightly
> rougher than the old VM K in my 1160. MIS mentioned that Museum's
viscosity
> was close to the limit of what Epson printers could handle, and I think
> Eboni is very close to Museum (if not identical).
> So far, I'd say Eboni (and the other high-load blacks) and definitely the
> Ultra Tone B&W inkset are worth whatever teething problems there may. I
> think the UT midtones (now that they are mixed correctly by MIS) are
> relatively problem-free. With the Eboni ink, its high-load character may
> introduce some issues that are new to us. (I'm not sure if there have
been
> any similar clogging issues with the other high-load blacks.) Ironically,
> MIS's big push for Eboni is to get rid of the FS/VM black due to it's
> clogging caused by the co-solvent base. (The co-solvent was probably
also
> largely responsible for the PiezoBW ink clogging.)
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;quot;flames.&amp;quot;
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/