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Digital BW, The Print

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Why not Gen5 black?

Why not Gen5 black?

2003-04-22 by Charles Bandes

So I'm curious - 

I keep hearing about people using the Mediastreet Gen4 black with their VM inks in 
order to get a higher dmax and richer blacks.

I also keep hearing about how the ultratones require a photo black for glossy and a 
matte black for matte paper. And so I wonder, why not use the MediaStreet Gen5 
black for both? Would it work? 

Is this a stupid suggestion? If so, why? I get pretty good _color_ prints using that 
black ink on both matte and glossy papers...

Re: [Digital BW] Why not Gen5 black?

2003-04-22 by Robert Morrison

Gen4 and Gen5 blacks both have 25% dye in them and thus fade much more
quickly than the all pigment Ultrachrome and Ultraquad black inks. You get
an additional black bump with the Gen4...but it fades away to a density less
than blacks like the high pigment load Museum Black, Ultrachrome Matte Black
or Ultraquad Eboni Black.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 4/22/03 9:46 AM, "Charles Bandes" <byronbulb@...> wrote:

> So I'm curious - 
> 
> I keep hearing about people using the Mediastreet Gen4 black with their VM
> inks in 
> order to get a higher dmax and richer blacks.
> 
> I also keep hearing about how the ultratones require a photo black for glossy
> and a 
> matte black for matte paper. And so I wonder, why not use the MediaStreet Gen5
> black for both? Would it work?
> 
> Is this a stupid suggestion? If so, why? I get pretty good _color_ prints
> using that 
> black ink on both matte and glossy papers...
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> 
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> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Why not Gen5 black?

2003-04-22 by Jerry Olson

Robert, Generations enhanced black is rated at 100+ years by Wilhelm. At
least thats what is says on the Media Street website. I've never
experienced any fading at all with the enhanced black. It took nearly 3
months in 
direct sunny window to show any fading. Seems to be pretty good. I
always use a cool curve, so if it does change toward brown, it won't
show as much as the other MIS inks. 

Jerry




Robert Morrison wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Gen4 and Gen5 blacks both have 25% dye in them and thus fade much more
> quickly than the all pigment Ultrachrome and Ultraquad black inks. You get
> an additional black bump with the Gen4...but it fades away to a density less
> than blacks like the high pigment load Museum Black, Ultrachrome Matte Black
> or Ultraquad Eboni Black.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 4/22/03 9:46 AM, "Charles Bandes" <byronbulb@...> wrote:
> 
> > So I'm curious -
> >
> > I keep hearing about people using the Mediastreet Gen4 black with their VM
> > inks in
> > order to get a higher dmax and richer blacks.
> >
> > I also keep hearing about how the ultratones require a photo black for glossy
> > and a
> > matte black for matte paper. And so I wonder, why not use the MediaStreet Gen5
> > black for both? Would it work?
> >
> > Is this a stupid suggestion? If so, why? I get pretty good _color_ prints
> > using that
> > black ink on both matte and glossy papers...
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> > page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Digital BW] Why not Gen5 black?

2003-04-24 by Robert Morrison

On 4/22/03 4:24 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote:

> Robert, Generations enhanced black is rated at 100+ years by Wilhelm.

Sorry Jerry, I know my chemistry and I think this number is ridiculous.  I
have 1270 prints that Wilhelm tested and rated on Epson Heavy Weight Matte
for 25 years and they have lost half their density in about 2 years under
glass in low light.  This was the same time that he did the Gen4 testing.
If you want durability in a black, 100% pigment is the only way to go in my
opinion.   But each needs to make their own decision.  If Ultrachrome black
actually pulls 1.9 on the new Epson Ultrasmooth paper...like some say Epson
is targeting...then Gen4/5 black will be a thing of the past.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Robert Morrison wrote:
>> 
>> Gen4 and Gen5 blacks both have 25% dye in them and thus fade much more
>> quickly than the all pigment Ultrachrome and Ultraquad black inks. You get
>> an additional black bump with the Gen4...but it fades away to a density less
>> than blacks like the high pigment load Museum Black, Ultrachrome Matte Black
>> or Ultraquad Eboni Black.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> On 4/22/03 9:46 AM, "Charles Bandes" <byronbulb@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> So I'm curious -
>>> 
>>> I keep hearing about people using the Mediastreet Gen4 black with their VM
>>> inks in
>>> order to get a higher dmax and richer blacks.
>>> 
>>> I also keep hearing about how the ultratones require a photo black for
>>> glossy
>>> and a
>>> matte black for matte paper. And so I wonder, why not use the MediaStreet
>>> Gen5
>>> black for both? Would it work?
>>> 
>>> Is this a stupid suggestion? If so, why? I get pretty good _color_ prints
>>> using that
>>> black ink on both matte and glossy papers...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>>> other
>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>>> page.
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>>> them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>> page.
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

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