Digital BW, The Print

Art offered a couple of suggestions re my problem off-list, but I'm now
certain my problem is the black CIS cart. Here's the background.

My 1280 with CIS and VM inks has performed extremely well for two years, but
now will not print black at all.

I'm on my second set of 4-oz bottles of VM inks, and installed new tubing
and carts when I got the second set of bottles about 9 months ago.

I recently had to take the printer in for minor mechanical repair. I removed
the CIS and installed new Epson cartridges when I took the printer in for
the repair. Upon the return of the printer, I continued using the Epson
cartridges for a few days before reinstalling the CIS/VM inks. The printer
was printing flawlessly before I took it in for the repair and continued to
print flawlessly with the Epson carts.

The printer repair took only 24 hours, but the CIS was out of the printer
nearly a week. During that time, the CIS carts were stored using the CIS
plugs (metal pins on lucite-type plastic). The CIS seemed to work OK right
after it was reinstalled, but the printer was not used for a few days
thereafter. The next time I started the printer, the red light was flashing
and the color cartridge indicator in the status monitor was grayed out. I
reseated the cart and everything seemed fine until I tried to print. No
black. I printed a purge pattern and all five "color" carts are fine, but no
black. Initially, I could get a good nozzle check, but now there is no black
even in the nozzle check. There are visible air bubbles in the black tubing
and they've been stationery through half a dozen cleaning cycles and test
prints. The cart is clearly still full of ink and the black bottle is still
about 1/3 full.

Today, I placed a drop of Fantastik on the black nipple and printed a purge
pattern. The five color carts are still fine, but the black printed as a
medium gray briefly and then quit completely.

It seems I need to replace my black cartridge, but I'm wondering what might
have happened so suddenly to my black cartridge while it was out of the
printer. I'd appreciate your thoughts because if this happens again, I'd
like to be able to avoid the problem next time.

Tom Keesling
Intelligent Design, Inc.

I tried the running the full color Epson inkset except for the y-cart
which I replaced with the Ultratone Y position ink. Problem is that the
Epson driver uses an extremely strong amount of cyan and magenta, so
even if I drag the curve all the way towards yellow it isn't nearly
enough to neutralize the print. It sounded like a good idea, but with
the way the Epson driver handles grayscales I just don't think it will
work.

Thomas;

You might ring Jerry Olson's bell on this one, he just went through 
what sounds like the same problem initializing a CIS, but here are 
some of the suggestions offered:

Pull the black cart out, tilt it up 45 degrees, and apply a syringe 
(w/ bottom fill adapter)to the cart's ink port. Pull enough ink out 
to get rid of any air in the cart around the port, and verify that 
you have vacuum in the system. If you don't, those bubbles in the 
lines won't move, in which case you need to go looking for air 
leaks. When all that seems in order, do a windex injection into the 
K head by attaching some model fuel line hose or heat-shrink tubing 
(whatever you have that fits) to the syringe. Inject slowly and 
gently, put 2-3 ml through it. Put the cart back on and do a couple 
cleaning cycles, etc. 

Best luck

Steve Karafyllakis

http://www.stevekphoto.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas 
Keesling" <tom.keesling@a...> wrote:
> Art offered a couple of suggestions re my problem off-list, but 
I'm now
> certain my problem is the black CIS cart. Here's the background.
> 
> My 1280 with CIS and VM inks has performed extremely well for two 
years, but
> now will not print black at all.
> 
> I'm on my second set of 4-oz bottles of VM inks, and installed new 
tubing
> and carts when I got the second set of bottles about 9 months ago.
> 
> I recently had to take the printer in for minor mechanical repair. 
I removed
> the CIS and installed new Epson cartridges when I took the printer 
in for
> the repair. Upon the return of the printer, I continued using the 
Epson
> cartridges for a few days before reinstalling the CIS/VM inks. The 
printer
> was printing flawlessly before I took it in for the repair and 
continued to
> print flawlessly with the Epson carts.
> 
> The printer repair took only 24 hours, but the CIS was out of the 
printer
> nearly a week. During that time, the CIS carts were stored using 
the CIS
> plugs (metal pins on lucite-type plastic). The CIS seemed to work 
OK right
> after it was reinstalled, but the printer was not used for a few 
days
> thereafter. The next time I started the printer, the red light was 
flashing
> and the color cartridge indicator in the status monitor was grayed 
out. I
> reseated the cart and everything seemed fine until I tried to 
print. No
> black. I printed a purge pattern and all five "color" carts are 
fine, but no
> black. Initially, I could get a good nozzle check, but now there 
is no black
> even in the nozzle check. There are visible air bubbles in the 
black tubing
> and they've been stationery through half a dozen cleaning cycles 
and test
> prints. The cart is clearly still full of ink and the black bottle 
is still
> about 1/3 full.
> 
> Today, I placed a drop of Fantastik on the black nipple and 
printed a purge
> pattern. The five color carts are still fine, but the black 
printed as a
> medium gray briefly and then quit completely.
> 
> It seems I need to replace my black cartridge, but I'm wondering 
what might
> have happened so suddenly to my black cartridge while it was out 
of the
> printer. I'd appreciate your thoughts because if this happens 
again, I'd

> like to be able to avoid the problem next time.
> 
> Tom Keesling
> Intelligent Design, Inc.

>>and verify that you have vacuum in the system. If you don't, those bubbles
in the
lines won't move, in which case you need to go looking for air leaks.<<

Additionally, it could be that you have a mother of a clog/sludge problem in
the black ink's tubing.  That is the problem I had.   Use the large 60cc
syringe to create a strong enough vacuum to break the clog loose (10cc
didn't have enough "power" in my experience).

Doug

Not sure whether you are on a pc or mac.  But if you are on a mac you could
use IJC to easily do this test.  This is an interesting solution and
probably the easiest.  You may also want to consider replacing the light
black ink with the middle gray in the Ultratone set...this may be a bit
darker than the light black and give you better shadow control.  But you are
right...the epson driver will absolutely not work for this type of
thing...you need the single channel control that IJC provides.

Robert

On 4/26/03 6:26 AM, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> wrote:

> I tried the running the full color Epson inkset except for the y-cart
> which I replaced with the Ultratone Y position ink. Problem is that the
> Epson driver uses an extremely strong amount of cyan and magenta, so
> even if I drag the curve all the way towards yellow it isn't nearly
> enough to neutralize the print. It sounded like a good idea, but with
> the way the Epson driver handles grayscales I just don't think it will
> work. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> 
>

Every time I post something here these days someone tries to sell me IJC
;) - But unfortunately I'm on PC, so I'll just have to wait for the
windows version. I asked Bowhaus if they would consider a free upgrade
to the PC version if I bought the mac version now, but they don't do
that. Otherwise I would consider buying a cheap mac and IJC to use as a
print server while waiting for the PC version. I'm just reluctant  to
get stuck with yet another noisy computer in the apartment, having five
already.

This was mostly something I tried for fun, since the Jim Hayes made the
suggestion a short while ago. I've also tried the same thing with the
Epson Light Black in the Y position with different, but equally poor
results. I'm really happy with the ultratones and matte papers though,
they give me great BW prints.

--
Daniel Staver
Petraflux Web-design | http://www.petraflux.com
Tel +47 22 35 44 57 | +47 Fax 22 35 40 66

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...] 
> Sent: 26. april 2003 19:03
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Tried the Y-cart trick on my 2100, 
> doesn't work.
> 
> 
> Not sure whether you are on a pc or mac.  But if you are on a 
> mac you could use IJC to easily do this test.  This is an 
> interesting solution and probably the easiest.  You may also 
> want to consider replacing the light black ink with the 
> middle gray in the Ultratone set...this may be a bit darker 
> than the light black and give you better shadow control.  But 
> you are right...the epson driver will absolutely not work for 
> this type of thing...you need the single channel control that 
> IJC provides.
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> On 4/26/03 6:26 AM, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> wrote:
> 
> > I tried the running the full color Epson inkset except for 
> the y-cart 
> > which I replaced with the Ultratone Y position ink. Problem is that 
> > the Epson driver uses an extremely strong amount of cyan 
> and magenta, 
> > so even if I drag the curve all the way towards yellow it 
> isn't nearly 
> > enough to neutralize the print. It sounded like a good 
> idea, but with 
> > the way the Epson driver handles grayscales I just don't 
> think it will 
> > work.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> Bookmarks, Polls 
> > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish 
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> > this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to 
> > keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
> > header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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> and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
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same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
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&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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On 4/26/03 10:43 AM, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> wrote:

> Every time I post something here these days someone tries to sell me IJC
> ;) - But unfortunately I'm on PC, so I'll just have to wait for the
> windows version. 

Hopefully I wasn't the one who recommended it before.  Forgive the IJC users
enthusiasm...its just that we have been waiting for this solution for years
and finally we have it and it allows so many possibilities that we tend to
be a bit effusive...but we aren't selling anything...just suggesting that it
will help you do what you are trying to do.

Robert

> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> Petraflux Web-design | http://www.petraflux.com
> Tel +47 22 35 44 57 | +47 Fax 22 35 40 66
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>> Sent: 26. april 2003 19:03
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Tried the Y-cart trick on my 2100,
>> doesn't work.
>> 
>> 
>> Not sure whether you are on a pc or mac.  But if you are on a
>> mac you could use IJC to easily do this test.  This is an
>> interesting solution and probably the easiest.  You may also
>> want to consider replacing the light black ink with the
>> middle gray in the Ultratone set...this may be a bit darker
>> than the light black and give you better shadow control.  But
>> you are right...the epson driver will absolutely not work for
>> this type of thing...you need the single channel control that
>> IJC provides.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/26/03 6:26 AM, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> I tried the running the full color Epson inkset except for
>> the y-cart 
>>> which I replaced with the Ultratone Y position ink. Problem is that
>>> the Epson driver uses an extremely strong amount of cyan
>> and magenta, 
>>> so even if I drag the curve all the way towards yellow it
>> isn't nearly 
>>> enough to neutralize the print. It sounded like a good
>> idea, but with 
>>> the way the Epson driver handles grayscales I just don't
>> think it will 
>>> work.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
>> Bookmarks, Polls
>>> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or
>> you wish 
>>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
>>> this same page.
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
>> messages to 
>>> keep them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
>>> header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives
>> and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your
>> Online Answer To Life's Important Questions.
>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/O10svD/Me7FAA/AG3JAA> /ucIolB/TM
>> 
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------~->
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
>> Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being
>> updated. The page is at:
>> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

> Hopefully I wasn't the one who recommended it before.  
> Forgive the IJC users enthusiasm...its just that we have been 
> waiting for this solution for years and finally we have it 
> and it allows so many possibilities that we tend to be a bit 
> effusive...but we aren't selling anything...just suggesting 
> that it will help you do what you are trying to do.

Don't worry, I wasn't being that serious <g>. Just a little frustrating
to hear so many good things about IJC and not being able to use it
myself. I hope Bowhaus develops a windows version with lightning speed.
From what I've heard I fully understand why you like it so much and
can't wait to get my hands on it myself. 

I did try OPM on a mac I borrowed for a short time, but discovered that
it doesn't support the 2100, only 2200. Bowhaus told me support for the
2100 would come in a future version.

--
Daniel Staver
Petraflux Web-design | http://www.petraflux.com
Tel +47 22 35 44 57 | +47 Fax 22 35 40 66

>
> I did try OPM on a mac I borrowed for a short time, but discovered that
> it doesn't support the 2100, only 2200. Bowhaus told me support for the
> 2100 would come in a future version.
>

But surely they are one and the same??

I mean it's not as if one were PAL and the other NTSC.


cheers,
henrik

> > I did try OPM on a mac I borrowed for a short time, but discovered 
> > that it doesn't support the 2100, only 2200. Bowhaus told 
> > me support for the 2100 would come in a future version.
> But surely they are one and the same??
> I mean it's not as if one were PAL and the other NTSC.

I agree, it's probably just a different identifier in the firmware or
something like that, I don't know for sure. But Bowhaus confirmed that
it didn't work on the 2100 so at least for now it's not compatible, even
if it's very likely to be an easy fix.

Concur with Steven wrt first trying pulling ink out bottom but I try
to keep cart level if possible (maybe Steven knows better with his 45
degree advice I don't know)- but not concur with injecting windex into
head because  printer works fine with Epson carts. Therefore injecting
head will not help- head is not the problem- it's the air in CIS or
the age of ink. Possibly (and less likely) some ink got jostled out of
K cart when reseating either k or color cart and it might be good to
check nipple for gunky ink which would prevent firm seating.

I've had many problems using ink that was that old and a CIS that was
stored for a week, and infrequent printing. I'd be amazed you even got
it to work at first except that I have an unusual climate very
condusive to clogging here as I've stated in the past. Most people
don't have this trouble, and your being hassle free for such a long
time would jive with this. So My own advice if the above didn't work
would be to start with a new k cart and perhaps a new k bottle just
for  good measure.

I can't help thinking from what you describe that if your color cart
unseated enough to trip the chip, something had to apply a force to
it. And whatever applied a force to it probably yanked on the tubing
or shook cart....and probably unseated the K cart too by the same
physical action, just not enough to trip the k chip. Seems logical. If
so, drawing out ink might be all that's needed.
Jim H.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:

> Thomas;
> 
> You might ring Jerry Olson's bell on this one, he just went through 
> what sounds like the same problem initializing a CIS, but here are 
> some of the suggestions offered:
> 
> Pull the black cart out, tilt it up 45 degrees, and apply a syringe 
> (w/ bottom fill adapter)to the cart's ink port. Pull enough ink out 
> to get rid of any air in the cart around the port, and verify that 
> you have vacuum in the system. If you don't, those bubbles in the 
> lines won't move, in which case you need to go looking for air 
> leaks. When all that seems in order, do a windex injection into the 
> K head by attaching some model fuel line hose or heat-shrink tubing 
> (whatever you have that fits) to the syringe. Inject slowly and 
> gently, put 2-3 ml through it. Put the cart back on and do a couple 
> cleaning cycles, etc. 
> 
> Best luck
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> http://www.stevekphoto.com
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas 
> Keesling" <tom.keesling@a...> wrote:
> > Art offered a couple of suggestions re my problem off-list, but 
> I'm now
> > certain my problem is the black CIS cart. Here's the background.
> > 
> > My 1280 with CIS and VM inks has performed extremely well for two 
> years, but
> > now will not print black at all.
> > 
> > I'm on my second set of 4-oz bottles of VM inks, and installed new 
> tubing
> > and carts when I got the second set of bottles about 9 months ago.
> > 
> > I recently had to take the printer in for minor mechanical repair. 
> I removed
> > the CIS and installed new Epson cartridges when I took the printer 
> in for
> > the repair. Upon the return of the printer, I continued using the 
> Epson
> > cartridges for a few days before reinstalling the CIS/VM inks. The 
> printer
> > was printing flawlessly before I took it in for the repair and 
> continued to
> > print flawlessly with the Epson carts.
> > 
> > The printer repair took only 24 hours, but the CIS was out of the 
> printer
> > nearly a week. During that time, the CIS carts were stored using 
> the CIS
> > plugs (metal pins on lucite-type plastic). The CIS seemed to work 
> OK right
> > after it was reinstalled, but the printer was not used for a few 
> days
> > thereafter. The next time I started the printer, the red light was 
> flashing
> > and the color cartridge indicator in the status monitor was grayed 
> out. I
> > reseated the cart and everything seemed fine until I tried to 
> print. No
> > black. I printed a purge pattern and all five "color" carts are 
> fine, but no
> > black. Initially, I could get a good nozzle check, but now there 
> is no black
> > even in the nozzle check. There are visible air bubbles in the 
> black tubing
> > and they've been stationery through half a dozen cleaning cycles 
> and test
> > prints. The cart is clearly still full of ink and the black bottle 
> is still
> > about 1/3 full.
> > 
> > Today, I placed a drop of Fantastik on the black nipple and 
> printed a purge
> > pattern. The five color carts are still fine, but the black 
> printed as a
> > medium gray briefly and then quit completely.
> > 
> > It seems I need to replace my black cartridge, but I'm wondering 
> what might
> > have happened so suddenly to my black cartridge while it was out 
> of the
> > printer. I'd appreciate your thoughts because if this happens 
> again, I'd
> > like to be able to avoid the problem next time.
> > 
> > Tom Keesling
> > Intelligent Design, Inc.

Jim, you wrote;--- In  wrote:
> Concur with Steven wrt first trying pulling ink out bottom but I 
try
> to keep cart level if possible (maybe Steven knows better with his 
45
> degree advice I don't know)- but not concur with injecting windex 
into
> head because  printer works fine with Epson carts. Therefore 
injecting
> head will not help- head is not the problem- 

I agree that it is very unlikely given the situation that the head 
is clogged, but it almost certainly has air in it; So filling it 
with liquid (of any sort, you could use ink) will allow it to 
generate more vacuum and thus help remove the air in the cart more 
efficiently. As for the 45 degree or even vertical tilt, the idea is 
to get the air bubbles to rotate around to the port, so you can suck 
them out? Perhaps not neccessary

Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> Jim, you wrote;--- In  wrote:
> > Concur with Steven wrt first trying pulling ink out bottom but I 
> try
> > to keep cart level if possible (maybe Steven knows better with his 
> 45
> > degree advice I don't know)- but not concur with injecting windex 
> into
> > head because  printer works fine with Epson carts. Therefore 
> injecting
> > head will not help- head is not the problem- 
> 
> I agree that it is very unlikely given the situation that the head 
> is clogged, but it almost certainly has air in it; So filling it 
> with liquid (of any sort, you could use ink) will allow it to 
> generate more vacuum and thus help remove the air in the cart more 
> efficiently. As for the 45 degree or even vertical tilt, the idea is 
> to get the air bubbles to rotate around to the port, so you can suck 
> them out? Perhaps not neccessary
>

I see the reasoning, then.  Your method would get the air out of head.
Since the Epson carts seem to clear the nozzle this could work also.

45 degrees pointing down then? Well, actually that is the position
that virgin non CIS carts are filled in approximately...my concern
here was that if he really has lots of air in cart that the bottom
fill adapter (or syringe bottom) might pop above the ink level if cart
is held at an angle. But this is probably not very likely unless a gap
at the tubing/elbow has drawn in huge amounts of air.
Jim H.

 
> Steve