Digital BW, The Print

List member and NYC fine-art photographer Amadou Diallo's has his review on 
the new StudioPrint 10 RIP for quadtone printing here:

http://www.dpandi.com/newsreviews/reviews/studioprint/index.html

(you can also direct-link from the site's home page: http://www.dpandi.com )

Harald Johnson
author, "Mastering Digital Printing"
DP&I.com ( http://www.dpandi.com )

< http://www.dpandi.com/newsreviews/reviews/studioprint/index.html >

Martin: <Harald, Thanks for the link. It sounds really great. Unfortunately I 
heard the grayscale capability will only be available for the large format 
printers and not the desktop printers due to a licensing deal Ergosoft has with 
Epson. The 2200 will be supported for color inks only and there will be no 
support for earlier desktop printers.>

This is NOT TRUE. I just talked to Robert Eversole, President of ErgoSoft/US, 
and he confirmed that StudioPrint currently supports (in quadtone and color) 
Epson 2200, 3000, 5000, and 5500 (for desktops). It's purely a market-demand 
situation, and licensing has nothing to do with it, he said. As other desktop 
printers show market potential, they may be supported, too.


<The cost and size of the big printers plus the cost of the RIP is going to 
keep it out of the hands of most users. Sigh.>

Maybe, but that's how it goes.

Harald Johnson
author, "Mastering Digital Printing"
DP&I.com ( http://www.dpandi.com )

Hi Harald,

Where does Ergosoft hide StudioPrint?  On their website I was only able to
find PosterPrint and TextPrint.

Roger

-BIG SNIP-

  -----Original Message-----
  From: hjswim2@... [mailto:hjswim2@...]
  Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:45 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Cc: adiallo@...; reversole@...
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of new StudioPrint 10 RIP


  < http://www.dpandi.com/newsreviews/reviews/studioprint/index.html >


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <hjswim2@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <adiallo@...>; <reversole@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:44 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of new StudioPrint 10 RIP


> < http://www.dpandi.com/newsreviews/reviews/studioprint/index.html >
>
> Martin: <Harald, Thanks for the link. It sounds really great.
Unfortunately I
> heard the grayscale capability will only be available for the large format
> printers and not the desktop printers due to a licensing deal Ergosoft has
with
> Epson. The 2200 will be supported for color inks only and there will be no
> support for earlier desktop printers.>
>
> This is NOT TRUE. I just talked to Robert Eversole, President of
ErgoSoft/US,
> and he confirmed that StudioPrint currently supports (in quadtone and
color)
> Epson 2200, 3000, 5000, and 5500 (for desktops). It's purely a
market-demand
> situation, and licensing has nothing to do with it, he said. As other
desktop
> printers show market potential, they may be supported, too.
>
>
Harald,

Thanks for the correction and that is good news about the 2200. I guess the
3000 and 5000 are desktops but I tend not to include them since they
definitely would not fit on my desk!<G> It is interesting that if you go to
the InkJetMall site where they are selling StudioPrint 10, it clearly states
that the 2200 version supports color only and not quad inks.

http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/studioprint-buy.html

Also the 3000 and 5000 series are not on the list of supported printers.
Hence my confusion. Is IJM selling a different version perhaps?

That does get the entry level cost down. StudioPrint 10 at ~$1,500, 2200 at
$700 and a CIS for $300 bringing the total to ~$2,300. I was hoping they
would support the 1280 and other small desktop printers with a version of
the RIP in the $500 range as Piezo, Sundance/R9 and Colorbyte do.

Martin Wesley

I'm not don't know if this applies, but I have PosterPrint 10 and a 2200 and
a 7000 and there are no Quad options listed when you create a new Print
Environment for the 2200. Also there are no options for individual control
of the inks the way there are in the 7000 environment. Maybe this is
something that is different in StudioPrint, but maybe Harald could ask
Robert E. the next time he talks with him. You can linearize the inks in the
2200 which helps get you a neutral image, but I don't see any Quad options
at least in Poster Print.

Luke


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of new StudioPrint 10 RIP


>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <hjswim2@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <adiallo@...>; <reversole@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:44 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of new StudioPrint 10 RIP
>
>
> > < http://www.dpandi.com/newsreviews/reviews/studioprint/index.html >
> >
> > Martin: <Harald, Thanks for the link. It sounds really great.
> Unfortunately I
> > heard the grayscale capability will only be available for the large
format
> > printers and not the desktop printers due to a licensing deal Ergosoft
has
> with
> > Epson. The 2200 will be supported for color inks only and there will be
no
> > support for earlier desktop printers.>
> >
> > This is NOT TRUE. I just talked to Robert Eversole, President of
> ErgoSoft/US,
> > and he confirmed that StudioPrint currently supports (in quadtone and
> color)
> > Epson 2200, 3000, 5000, and 5500 (for desktops). It's purely a
> market-demand
> > situation, and licensing has nothing to do with it, he said. As other
> desktop
> > printers show market potential, they may be supported, too.
> >
> >
> Harald,
>
> Thanks for the correction and that is good news about the 2200. I guess
the
> 3000 and 5000 are desktops but I tend not to include them since they
> definitely would not fit on my desk!<G> It is interesting that if you go
to
> the InkJetMall site where they are selling StudioPrint 10, it clearly
states
> that the 2200 version supports color only and not quad inks.
>
> http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/studioprint-buy.html
>
> Also the 3000 and 5000 series are not on the list of supported printers.
> Hence my confusion. Is IJM selling a different version perhaps?
>
> That does get the entry level cost down. StudioPrint 10 at ~$1,500, 2200
at
> $700 and a CIS for $300 bringing the total to ~$2,300. I was hoping they
> would support the 1280 and other small desktop printers with a version of
> the RIP in the $500 range as Piezo, Sundance/R9 and Colorbyte do.
>
> Martin Wesley
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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>

Roger: <Where does Ergosoft hide StudioPrint?  On their website I was only 
able to

find PosterPrint and TextPrint.>

Good question! I don't see it either ( http://www.ergosoftus.com/products ). 
I've only seen PDFs, an actual demo, and now, Amadou's review. Hey, Robert 
Eversole, where is that darn product on your site? (if he doesn't respond, email: 
info@...)

-------------

Martin: <... It is interesting that if you go to the InkJetMall site where 
they are selling StudioPrint 10, it clearly states that the 2200 version 
supports color only and not quad inks. 
http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/studioprint-buy.html >

Yeah, I see what you mean. But, that doesn't make sense. As Robert explained 
it to me, StudioPrint is not an ink-based product. You could use orange, 
green, food colors, or fence paint if you wanted. It doesn't know or care what the 
inks are. 


<Also the 3000 and 5000 series are not on the list of supported printers. 
Hence my confusion. Is IJM selling a different version perhaps?>

Seems unlikely, but I'll defer to Robert. 


-------------

Luke: <.... Maybe this is something that is different in StudioPrint, but 
maybe Harald could ask Robert E. the next time he talks with him. You can 
linearize the inks in the 2200 which helps get you a neutral image, but I don't see 
any Quad options at least in Poster Print.>

My understanding is that there are no "Quad options" with StudioPrint either; 
you just create whatever Print Environment you want, slotting in whatever ink 
ordering you want. But, I'm just the messenger here. Since I don't actually 
have the product, I better just shut up and let others more knowledgeable talk 
about it. You out there, Robert??? Amadou???

Harald Johnson

Yeah it seems ErgoSoft's web site hasn't been updated in a while. Note: StudioPrint 
and PosterPrint are identical products with the exception that PosterPrint is 
postscript-enabled and StudioPrint is Raster only. Both products are currently at 
version 10. So some of the screenshots and info on their site are useful, albeit in a 
limited way. A call or email will get you a fully functional demo.

I haven't used StudioPrint to drive any of the desktop models, but the manual clearly 
lists the 3000 and 5000 series as being suported.

A supported printer is one for which StudioPrint has a built-in driver. Once you select 
the proper driver and plug in a spectrophotometer, you can load any inks you want in 
the printer. The "quadtone" presets you use to build your first print environment 
simply select default ink positions and quality settings. Change whichever of these 
settings you want. The presets are supplied as a convenience. For example, if you're a 
retired chemist and developed your own inkset, load them in the printer, select the 
positions and...well here's the hard part. Decide, based on individual ink densities, 
where you want crossover points. I.e. Where does the "Cyan ink" kick in, ramp up to 
max density, and fade out, deferring to "Black ink" laydown. Happily that's all still 
beyond me, or else I'd never sleep...> 

Keep in mind, ErgoSoft is the developer of StudioPrint and IJM is one of a number of 
resellers. Certainly things would be less confusing with an up-to-date site from 
ErgoSoft, but any technical  pre-sales questions can be addressed directly to 
ErgoSoft. 

Amadou Diallo

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Amadou Diallo" 
<amadiallo2001@y...> wrote:
> Yeah it seems ErgoSoft's web site hasn't been updated in a while. Note: StudioPrint 
> and PosterPrint are identical products with the exception that PosterPrint is 
> postscript-enabled and StudioPrint is Raster only. Both products are currently at 
> version 10. So some of the screenshots and info on their site are useful, albeit in a 
> limited way. A call or email will get you a fully functional demo.
> 
> I haven't used StudioPrint to drive any of the desktop models, but the manual 
> clearly lists the 3000 and 5000 series as being suported.

For those of you who don't know me, my name is Robert Eversole and I am an idiot.  I 
was on the idiot-wagon for more than twelve months before I fell off this last time.

I recently received an email asking me about Quad Black support for the 2200.  
Without thinking, not only did I emphatically say we supported it, I went on to say we 
supported it for the 3000 and 5000 as well.  That's when I put my lips to evil drink of 
idiocy.  I am so ashamed!

What I failed to recall is that we had more than our fair share of technical issues 
writing a comprehensive driver for the 2200.  Once we incorporated the Epson 
Screening algorithms, I recommended to Switzerland to issue the final release without 
our other screening algorithms because most, if not all, users will likely only use the 
Epson Screening anyway.  Well, the Epson Screening does not provide individual ink 
channel control thereby eliminating our ability to support Quad Black inksets.  This 
has absolutely nothing to do with licensing, which unfortunately is the element I 
zeroed in on instead of the technical limitations we were presented with.

With regard to the 3000 and 5000, we simply made a conscious decision not to 
update that driver for version 10.  I will look into development time for such Quad 
support and let you know (so long as there is a market for it).  There would not be a 
Desktop version (under 24") leaving it to be included in the Small Format (24") level 
and above only.  Your feedback would be appreciated.

Now, about the website... quite frankly, it sucks by American standards.  We are 
beginning the process of a redesign but these things never come fast nor easy.  I 
have personally taken this for granted as we have preferred to let the software and 
our customers do the talking for us.  True, it has likely handicapped any opportunity 
for explosive growth, but in turn, our high degree of interaction has led to an 
extremely happy user base which, to me, is the most important element to success in 
my book (I certainly don't plan on winning any Businessman of the Year awards any 
time soon).  I promise I will work to put together a comprehensive website with all of 
our products before the end of the summer.  

Until then, I encourage anybody who is interested in our products to contact us 
directly and we will ensure that you get the facts most important to you, the fact that 
it works for you in your environment.  We won't waste your time if it won't work for 
you.

So let the flaming begin, I expect it following such an egregious error but please don't 
hold it against my company.  It wouldn't be fair to them and it wouldn't be fair to you 
or your images if you gave up on our products just because I'm an idiot.

Best Regards,

Robert
-- 
Robert Eversole
President
ErgoSoft U. S. LLC

reversole@...
T     703.464.0876
F     703.783.6201
IM   ergosoft1

Robert,

Thank you for clarifying the situation. I was told that since Ergosoft had
licensed the 2200 screening algorithm from Epson that included a clause not
to support non-Epson inks, but that's third hand knowledge.

In any case it is very sad that they will not be supporting the smaller
printers. There are over 2900 members in this group and by far most of them
are on printers like the 1160 and the 1280 with the 2200 likely to supplant
those with time. Only a small number have the larger format printers
although they tend to be some of the more active posters to the group.

The largest market for software like StudioPrint would be for the under
$1,000 printers but only if the pricing was down low enough to compete with
the current packages from your competitors which are all under $500. If you
supported quad inks on the 1280 at that price I know I would be raiding the
piggy bank.

Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "roberteversole" <ergosoftus@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:40 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of new StudioPrint 10 RIP


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Amadou Diallo"
> <amadiallo2001@y...> wrote:
> > Yeah it seems ErgoSoft's web site hasn't been updated in a while. Note:
StudioPrint
> > and PosterPrint are identical products with the exception that
PosterPrint is
> > postscript-enabled and StudioPrint is Raster only. Both products are
currently at
> > version 10. So some of the screenshots and info on their site are
useful, albeit in a
> > limited way. A call or email will get you a fully functional demo.
> >
> > I haven't used StudioPrint to drive any of the desktop models, but the
manual
> > clearly lists the 3000 and 5000 series as being suported.
>
> For those of you who don't know me, my name is Robert Eversole and I am an
idiot.  I
> was on the idiot-wagon for more than twelve months before I fell off this
last time.
>
> I recently received an email asking me about Quad Black support for the
2200.
> Without thinking, not only did I emphatically say we supported it, I went
on to say we
> supported it for the 3000 and 5000 as well.  That's when I put my lips to
evil drink of
> idiocy.  I am so ashamed!
>
> What I failed to recall is that we had more than our fair share of
technical issues
> writing a comprehensive driver for the 2200.  Once we incorporated the
Epson
> Screening algorithms, I recommended to Switzerland to issue the final
release without
> our other screening algorithms because most, if not all, users will likely
only use the
> Epson Screening anyway.  Well, the Epson Screening does not provide
individual ink
> channel control thereby eliminating our ability to support Quad Black
inksets.  This
> has absolutely nothing to do with licensing, which unfortunately is the
element I
> zeroed in on instead of the technical limitations we were presented with.
>
> With regard to the 3000 and 5000, we simply made a conscious decision not
to
> update that driver for version 10.  I will look into development time for
such Quad
> support and let you know (so long as there is a market for it).  There
would not be a
> Desktop version (under 24") leaving it to be included in the Small Format
(24") level
> and above only.  Your feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Now, about the website... quite frankly, it sucks by American standards.
We are
> beginning the process of a redesign but these things never come fast nor
easy.  I
> have personally taken this for granted as we have preferred to let the
software and
> our customers do the talking for us.  True, it has likely handicapped any
opportunity
> for explosive growth, but in turn, our high degree of interaction has led
to an
> extremely happy user base which, to me, is the most important element to
success in
> my book (I certainly don't plan on winning any Businessman of the Year
awards any
> time soon).  I promise I will work to put together a comprehensive website
with all of
> our products before the end of the summer.
>
> Until then, I encourage anybody who is interested in our products to
contact us
> directly and we will ensure that you get the facts most important to you,
the fact that
> it works for you in your environment.  We won't waste your time if it
won't work for
> you.
>
> So let the flaming begin, I expect it following such an egregious error
but please don't
> hold it against my company.  It wouldn't be fair to them and it wouldn't
be fair to you
> or your images if you gave up on our products just because I'm an idiot.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Robert
> -- 
> Robert Eversole
> President
> ErgoSoft U. S. LLC
>
> reversole@...
> T     703.464.0876
> F     703.783.6201
> IM   ergosoft1
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Robert: <BIG SNIP... So let the flaming begin, I expect it following such an 
egregious error but please don't hold it against my company....>

Well, make me look bad! 

Appreciate the clarification. So, the bottom line is: for the Epson 2200, 
StudioPrint DOES NOT support quad printing via individual ink channel controls. 
Is that right?

Harald

> Well, make me look bad! 

I'll do my best.  I figure if I am going to go completely out of my way to look stupid, 
others are coming along with me!  It's a lonely ride otherwise.
 
> Appreciate the clarification. So, the bottom line is: for the Epson 2200, 
> StudioPrint DOES NOT support quad printing via individual ink channel controls. 
> Is that right?

At this time, that is correct.  We are talking with ErgoSoft Europe as I type this post to 
find out how realistic it would be to renew development on the other screening 
algorithms thereby opening up the support for Quad Black.

To clarify the technical postion on this, we don't drive these devices with an ICC 
profile.  We actually control each ink channel individually and the Epson Screening 
does not allow such control, at least given the firmware for the 2200, which btw is 
very different from the 7600 and 9600 where we do have control.

To reply to Martin's previous post, I am also still pushing for a Desktop version that 
supports the 2200 only that will come in competitively pricewise but that will depend 
on 1) ability to support Quads because without it who cares, and 2) ability to license a 
desktop size format only due to our license generation limitations.  Neither are 
impossible to solve.  However, if we were to eliminate these barriers, I still believe we 
are fighting an uphill battle getting many Mac devotees to integrate a PC into their 
workflow "just to improve their image quality and production".  But don't get me 
started on that one.

Cheers,

Robert
-- 
Robert Eversole
President
ErgoSoft U. S. LLC
                       
reversole@...
T     703.464.0876
F     703.783.6201
IM   ergosoft1

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"roberteversole" <ergosoftus@e...> wrote:

...
> 
> To reply to Martin's previous post, I am also still pushing for a 
Desktop version that 
> supports the 2200 only that will come in competitively 
pricewise but that will depend 
> on 1) ability to support Quads because without it who cares, 
and 2) ability to license a 
> desktop size format only due to our license generation 
limitations.  Neither are 
> impossible to solve.  However, if we were to eliminate these 
barriers, I still believe we 
> are fighting an uphill battle getting many Mac devotees to 
integrate a PC into their 
> workflow "just to improve their image quality and production".  

Ironic isn't it.   
Here I' am trying to get many Windows devotees to integrate a
Mac into their workflow  "just to improve their image quality and
production".  And, of course, don't get me started either! :)
Not many people are willing the consider switching.

Roy
Author of QuadToneRIP
www.harrington.com

But don't get me 

> started on that one.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Robert
> -- 
> Robert Eversole
> President
> ErgoSoft U. S. LLC
>                        
> reversole@e...
> T     703.464.0876
> F     703.783.6201
> IM   ergosoft1