Digital BW, The Print

This is the claim MIS makes on its web site about Somerset Velvet 
uncoated paper:

"This is the paper our prestigious testing group has concluded is the 
very best for making fine art Quadtone prints on a 4 color printer."

I believed it, ordered it, and now am stuck with it. This paper gives 
flat results on the used 1160 I just bought (w/mis vm inks), 
regardless of tweaks (EAM works beautifully however). It does take 
colored pastels OK though, so now I will be spending hours hand 
coloring...(maybe good for the eyes to give them a rest). Just wanted 
to warn anyone who might be thinking of throwing any money at this 
claim/paper with hopeful results. (If I'm wrong, and there is a 
fix/tweak/curve someone has come up with for an 1160 to back up the 
above claim, please do tell. (Someone on this list said in an archive 
the paper was "terrible". Wish I had done a deep search on this list 
before wasting 40 bucks...will next time.) Mark R.

uncoated somerset velvet is one of the earliest watercolour papers tried out
for quadtones... it's still a decent paper, if a bit soft (lack of coating).
And was a favourite of Giclee printers

You would probably have to hunt way back in the archives of this, or the old
Epson leben list to find stuff

"Somerset Velvet (250gr)
This paper is the most popular sheet in the Iris Giclee industry for good
reason. It has an amazing whiteness that it's competition and detractors
claim is made from optical brighteners But the truth is that it doesn't use
optical brighteners and is more stable than Arches Watercolor in terms of
whiteness. How do we know? Jon Cone helped develop this sheet with Michael
Ginsburg of Legion Paper in the early 90s. The longevity of this sheet is
well tested and does not adversely effect dye or pigment inkjet inks.
Mould-made in the UK of 100% rag. Neutral pH. The color gamut of this paper
is not as good as coated papers such as the Enhanced Velvet. The results are
soft and are liked by many fine art printers."

etc - as I recall you ahve to play with everything up a fair bit - colour,
saturation, contrast etc.

see

http://www.inkjetart.com/watercolor_printing.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: markroth61 [mailto:mark80905@...]
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:43 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Do not buy this paper...
>
>
> This is the claim MIS makes on its web site about Somerset Velvet
> uncoated paper:
>
> "This is the paper our prestigious testing group has concluded is the
> very best for making fine art Quadtone prints on a 4 color printer."
>
> I believed it, ordered it, and now am stuck with it. This paper gives
> flat results on the used 1160 I just bought (w/mis vm inks),
> regardless of tweaks (EAM works beautifully however). It does take
> colored pastels OK though, so now I will be spending hours hand
> coloring...(maybe good for the eyes to give them a rest). Just wanted
> to warn anyone who might be thinking of throwing any money at this
> claim/paper with hopeful results. (If I'm wrong, and there is a
> fix/tweak/curve someone has come up with for an 1160 to back up the
> above claim, please do tell. (Someone on this list said in an archive
> the paper was "terrible". Wish I had done a deep search on this list
> before wasting 40 bucks...will next time.) Mark R.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> visiting this same page.
>
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> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
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>
>
>

Tim,
Thanks much for the tip and link...I'll give it another go, guess I'm 
spoiled by the fine results of the mis quad inks/EAM combo, and 
expected the same levels of detail and print quality. So maybe it's 
not a "waste" of money after all, but an "investment in the learning 
curve" :)
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tim Atherton 
<timatherton@t...> wrote:
> uncoated somerset velvet is one of the earliest watercolour papers 
tried out
> for quadtones... it's still a decent paper, if a bit soft (lack of 
coating).
> And was a favourite of Giclee printers
> 
> You would probably have to hunt way back in the archives of this, 
or the old
> Epson leben list to find stuff
> 
> "Somerset Velvet (250gr)
> This paper is the most popular sheet in the Iris Giclee industry 
for good
> reason. It has an amazing whiteness that it's competition and 
detractors
> claim is made from optical brighteners But the truth is that it 
doesn't use
> optical brighteners and is more stable than Arches Watercolor in 
terms of
> whiteness. How do we know? Jon Cone helped develop this sheet with 
Michael
> Ginsburg of Legion Paper in the early 90s. The longevity of this 
sheet is
> well tested and does not adversely effect dye or pigment inkjet 
inks.
> Mould-made in the UK of 100% rag. Neutral pH. The color gamut of 
this paper
> is not as good as coated papers such as the Enhanced Velvet. The 
results are
> soft and are liked by many fine art printers."
> 
> etc - as I recall you ahve to play with everything up a fair bit - 
colour,
> saturation, contrast etc.
> 
> see
> 
> http://www.inkjetart.com/watercolor_printing.html
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: markroth61 [mailto:mark80905@h...]
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:43 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Do not buy this paper...
> >
> >
> > This is the claim MIS makes on its web site about Somerset Velvet
> > uncoated paper:
> >
> > "This is the paper our prestigious testing group has concluded is 
the
> > very best for making fine art Quadtone prints on a 4 color 
printer."
> >
> > I believed it, ordered it, and now am stuck with it. This paper 
gives
> > flat results on the used 1160 I just bought (w/mis vm inks),
> > regardless of tweaks (EAM works beautifully however). It does take
> > colored pastels OK though, so now I will be spending hours hand
> > coloring...(maybe good for the eyes to give them a rest). Just 
wanted
> > to warn anyone who might be thinking of throwing any money at this
> > claim/paper with hopeful results. (If I'm wrong, and there is a
> > fix/tweak/curve someone has come up with for an 1160 to back up 
the
> > above claim, please do tell. (Someone on this list said in an 
archive
> > the paper was "terrible". Wish I had done a deep search on this 
list
> > before wasting 40 bucks...will next time.) Mark R.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The 
page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> > messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > various resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >
> >

In a message dated 7/18/2003 9:43:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
mark80905@... writes:

> This is the claim MIS makes on its web site about Somerset Velvet 
> uncoated paper:
> 
> "This is the paper our prestigious testing group has concluded is the 
> very best for making fine art Quadtone prints on a 4 color printer."
> 
This claim was made almost 4 years ago, Before there where any coated papers 
on the market. Way befor EAM I nice paper for some things, very inexpensive, 
but nothing like what is availble now. 
Steve M.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, sdmey4@a... 
wrote:
...
> This claim was made almost 4 years ago, Before there where any 
coated papers 
> on the market.

You would know <G>

Only 4? Seems like a lifetime.
Tyl

My favourite inkjet print I've ever made is on that paper - with the
original piezo quads

Julian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "markroth61" <mark80905@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 6:43 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Do not buy this paper...


> This is the claim MIS makes on its web site about Somerset Velvet
> uncoated paper:
>
> "This is the paper our prestigious testing group has concluded is the
> very best for making fine art Quadtone prints on a 4 color printer."
>
> I believed it, ordered it, and now am stuck with it. This paper gives
> flat results on the used 1160 I just bought (w/mis vm inks),
> regardless of tweaks (EAM works beautifully however). It does take
> colored pastels OK though, so now I will be spending hours hand
> coloring...(maybe good for the eyes to give them a rest). Just wanted
> to warn anyone who might be thinking of throwing any money at this
> claim/paper with hopeful results. (If I'm wrong, and there is a
> fix/tweak/curve someone has come up with for an 1160 to back up the
> above claim, please do tell. (Someone on this list said in an archive
> the paper was "terrible". Wish I had done a deep search on this list
> before wasting 40 bucks...will next time.) Mark R.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> My favourite inkjet print I've ever made is on that paper - with the
> original piezo quads
> 
> Julian

I don't doubt that for a second. Even though I don't use it, I love 
that combo, very silvery.
To Mark R, if you so strongly disliked the initial impressions you 
have of the look of the paper, no amount of tweaking is going to make 
it look like the razzle dazzle options of the coated papers.
Better to use what you have left seeing what you think of a subtle 
soft middle tone or high key on it, or one that is killed by strong 
blacks (I'm ducking now), to see if you have some occassional use for 
it

I bought a bulk order from the mill and had the sheets cut - I still have
half of it. I'm starting a BW series of shots of the sea - a bit
sugimoto-ish and was think that paper might be perfect

Julian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Do not buy this paper...


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Julian Thomas"
> <julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> > My favourite inkjet print I've ever made is on that paper - with the
> > original piezo quads
> >
> > Julian
>
> I don't doubt that for a second. Even though I don't use it, I love
> that combo, very silvery.
> To Mark R, if you so strongly disliked the initial impressions you
> have of the look of the paper, no amount of tweaking is going to make
> it look like the razzle dazzle options of the coated papers.
> Better to use what you have left seeing what you think of a subtle
> soft middle tone or high key on it, or one that is killed by strong
> blacks (I'm ducking now), to see if you have some occassional use for
> it
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Tyler,
Yes, you are correct...I did find a way to salvage the use, a 
distance farm scene with strong blacks and good clouds/sky, but still 
very soft. I was expecting to pull strong close up detail out of 
this, but there are better coated alternatives I see now. It is a 
terrific watercolor paper I should add, just not for fine-detail b&w 
photo-inkjet work. mark r.
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@t...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Julian 
Thomas" 
> <julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> > My favourite inkjet print I've ever made is on that paper - with 
the
> > original piezo quads
> > 
> > Julian
> 
> I don't doubt that for a second. Even though I don't use it, I love 
> that combo, very silvery.
> To Mark R, if you so strongly disliked the initial impressions you 
> have of the look of the paper, no amount of tweaking is going to 
make 
> it look like the razzle dazzle options of the coated papers.
> Better to use what you have left seeing what you think of a subtle 
> soft middle tone or high key on it, or one that is killed by strong 
> blacks (I'm ducking now), to see if you have some occassional use 
for 
> it

In a message dated 7/19/03 12:44:00 AM, mark80905@... writes:


> This is the claim MIS makes on its web site about Somerset Velvet 
> uncoated paper:
> 
> "This is the paper our prestigious testing group has concluded is the 
> very best for making fine art Quadtone prints on a 4 color printer."
> 
> I believed it, ordered it, and now am stuck with it. This paper gives 
> flat results on the used 1160 I just bought (w/mis vm inks), 
> regardless of tweaks (EAM works beautifully however). It does take 
> colored pastels OK though, so now I will be spending hours hand 
> coloring...(maybe good for the eyes to give them a rest). Just wanted 
> to warn anyone who might be thinking of throwing any money at this 
> claim/paper with hopeful results. (If I'm wrong, and there is a 
> fix/tweak/curve someone has come up with for an 1160 to back up the 
> above claim, please do tell. (Someone on this list said in an archive 
> the paper was "terrible". Wish I had done a deep search on this list 
> before wasting 40 bucks...will next time.) Mark R.
> 
Hi Mark:

Try putting the paper through the printer twice. Registration might be 
difficult, but just print the shadow areas the second time around. Maybe bright 
colors too-just pull out the highlights and midtones with a curve. You might be 
very happy with the results and you can probably use 720dpi high speed the 
second time through to save time.

It works wonders on my 7600.

All the best!

Andrew Darlow

------------
Andrew Darlow Images International
www.andrewdarlow.com , AD@...
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]