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Digital BW, The Print

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Thread

Coating - again...

Coating - again...

2003-07-30 by Jack M Kucy

Hi Group,
After running MIS UT CFS on my 1280 for a while I decided to
finally to use my custom made 26 inch Mayer Rod (20" wire wound).
I wasted 2 test prints, since my table was a bit tilted and the
Hydrocote Polyshield was moving to the right while applying.
When I fixed that the prints are amazing.
I use UT with photo black, but after coating with Satin Polyshield
they look like good Ilford FB glossy - air dried.  I love it.
I checked different speeds and pressures.  The only way you actually
can have a BAD result if you drag your rod not straight.  If one end
goes slower and than you adjust - you have a slight uneven coat.
Otherwise, it's hard to screw it up.  I am not surprises - Mayer Rod
is used in coat testing.
As you noticed my rod has 20" covered with the wire.  I run my 13x19
prints sideways (the same with the 8x10)  to minimize ink spread on
the sides.  
Thanks to all who helped me make up my mind.
(BTW I bought my custom made rod at the FilterStore.com for $79.96 -
it's not cheap, but considering really nicely applied #30 wire it's worthy
- the standard sizes are much cheaper)
Happy printing and coating,
Jack

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096     jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-30 by Jon

Hi Jack,

What paper are you using?

Jon
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Jack M Kucy <jmk@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:52:50 -0400
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Coating - again...
> 
> Hi Group,
> After running MIS UT CFS on my 1280 for a while I decided to
> finally to use my custom made 26 inch Mayer Rod (20" wire wound).
> I wasted 2 test prints, since my table was a bit tilted and the
> Hydrocote Polyshield was moving to the right while applying.
> When I fixed that the prints are amazing.
> I use UT with photo black, but after coating with Satin Polyshield
> they look like good Ilford FB glossy - air dried.  I love it.
> I checked different speeds and pressures.  The only way you actually
> can have a BAD result if you drag your rod not straight.  If one end
> goes slower and than you adjust - you have a slight uneven coat.
> Otherwise, it's hard to screw it up.  I am not surprises - Mayer Rod
> is used in coat testing.
> As you noticed my rod has 20" covered with the wire.  I run my 13x19
> prints sideways (the same with the 8x10)  to minimize ink spread on
> the sides.  
> Thanks to all who helped me make up my mind.
> (BTW I bought my custom made rod at the FilterStore.com for $79.96 -
> it's not cheap, but considering really nicely applied #30 wire it's worthy
> - the standard sizes are much cheaper)
> Happy printing and coating,
> Jack
> 
> _________________________________________________
> Jack M Kucy
> JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> 917-991-2096     jmk@...
> Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> _________________________________________________
> ...a riveder le stelle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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> 
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> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-30 by Robert Morrison

Congratulations Jack...the coated prints are still the best looking  
digital prints in town if you make the effort.  For those looking for  
Mayer Rods.  RDspecialties.com can make any size rod and the prices are  
much more reasonable.  I suggest using a #30 rod for the Hydrocote.  I  
also strongly suggest using a paper that is at least 300gm when you  
intend to coat...this will increase you chance of success because the  
paper won't buckle from the water in the coating.  As Jack mentioned, a  
flat surface is also critical.  I find a 1/2" piece of glass on a  
plywood or particle board support to be best.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 09:52  AM, Jack M Kucy wrote:

> Hi Group,
> After running MIS UT CFS on my 1280 for a while I decided to
> finally to use my custom made 26 inch Mayer Rod (20" wire wound).
> I wasted 2 test prints, since my table was a bit tilted and the
> Hydrocote Polyshield was moving to the right while applying.
> When I fixed that the prints are amazing.
> I use UT with photo black, but after coating with Satin Polyshield
> they look like good Ilford FB glossy - air dried.  I love it.
> I checked different speeds and pressures.  The only way you actually
> can have a BAD result if you drag your rod not straight.  If one end
> goes slower and than you adjust - you have a slight uneven coat.
> Otherwise, it's hard to screw it up.  I am not surprises - Mayer Rod
> is used in coat testing.
> As you noticed my rod has 20" covered with the wire.  I run my 13x19
> prints sideways (the same with the 8x10)  to minimize ink spread on
> the sides.
> Thanks to all who helped me make up my mind.
> (BTW I bought my custom made rod at the FilterStore.com for $79.96 -
> it's not cheap, but considering really nicely applied #30 wire it's  
> worthy
> - the standard sizes are much cheaper)
> Happy printing and coating,
> Jack
>
> _________________________________________________
> Jack M Kucy
> JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> 917-991-2096     jmk@...
> Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> _________________________________________________
> ...a riveder le stelle
>
>
>
>
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> ---------------------~-->
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
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>
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> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
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>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-30 by Alan Zinn

At 10:10 AM 7/30/03 -0700, you wrote:
>Congratulations Jack...the coated prints are still the best looking
>digital prints in town if you make the effort.  For those looking for
>Mayer Rods.  RDspecialties.com can make any size rod and the prices are
>much more reasonable.  I suggest using a #30 rod for the Hydrocote.  I
>also strongly suggest using a paper that is at least 300gm when you
>intend to coat...this will increase you chance of success because the
>paper won't buckle from the water in the coating.  As Jack mentioned, a
>flat surface is also critical.  I find a 1/2" piece of glass on a
>plywood or particle board support to be best.
>
>Robert
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 09:52  AM, Jack M Kucy wrote:
>
> > Hi Group,
> > After running MIS UT CFS on my 1280 for a while I decided to
> > finally to use my custom made 26 inch Mayer Rod (20" wire wound).
> > I wasted 2 test prints, since my table was a bit tilted and the
> > Hydrocote Polyshield was moving to the right while applying.
> > When I fixed that the prints are amazing.
> > I use UT with photo black, but after coating with Satin Polyshield
> > they look like good Ilford FB glossy - air dried.  I love it.
> > I checked different speeds and pressures.  The only way you actually
> > can have a BAD result if you drag your rod not straight.  If one end
> > goes slower and than you adjust - you have a slight uneven coat.
> > Otherwise, it's hard to screw it up.  I am not surprises - Mayer Rod
> > is used in coat testing.
> > As you noticed my rod has 20" covered with the wire.  I run my 13x19
> > prints sideways (the same with the 8x10)  to minimize ink spread on
> > the sides.
> > Thanks to all who helped me make up my mind.
> > (BTW I bought my custom made rod at the FilterStore.com for $79.96 -
> > it's not cheap, but considering really nicely applied #30 wire it's
> > worthy
> > - the standard sizes are much cheaper)
> > Happy printing and coating,
> > Jack
> >
> > _________________________________________________
> > Jack M Kucy
> > JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> > 917-991-2096     jmk@...
> > Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> > _________________________________________________
> > ...a riveder le stelle
> >
> >
> >

Guys,

Three questions:

Do your coated prints have a nice tactile quality like double weight FB?
Will they hold up to the same handling as conventional prints?

How is the wire wound around the mayer rod? I have a bunch of  glass 
measuring rods I might be able to use.  Maybe some really nice person could 
scan a mayer rod and post it?

Thanks,

AZ

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Jack M Kucy

Alan,
Yes, prints coated that way have the quality of the double weight FB (if 
you use a thick stock,
above 240 gms). And as far as I can tell you handle them the same way 
(however if you want
to sign them on the front below the image you have to do it before 
coating).  Even sizes are more
like standard photo paper sizes since you have to cut more or less 1/8" 
on all sizes after coating.
(in case of 8x10 an least)
You asked for a scan of the rod.  At the address below you will find a 
picture, which I have just
taken with the digital camera of one of the ends of the rod.

http://www.jmk-gallery.com/out/DSCF1055.jpg

Hope it helps.
Jack

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096     jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Three questions:
>
> Do your coated prints have a nice tactile quality like double weight FB?
> Will they hold up to the same handling as conventional prints?
>
> How is the wire wound around the mayer rod? I have a bunch of  glass
> measuring rods I might be able to use.  Maybe some really nice person 
> could
> scan a mayer rod and post it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> AZ
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Robert Morrison

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 02:05  PM, Alan Zinn wrote:

>
> Guys,
>
> Three questions:
>
> Do your coated prints have a nice tactile quality like double weight 
> FB?
> Will they hold up to the same handling as conventional prints?

Yes, Yes, but the prints are heavier than FB if you make them with a 
300gm paper.
>
> How is the wire wound around the mayer rod? I have a bunch of  glass
> measuring rods I might be able to use.  Maybe some really nice person 
> could
> scan a mayer rod and post it?
>

www.rdspecialties.com

Buy one.  They aren't very expensive and they are a precision milled 
tool...you would never be able to get there trying to make one yourself.

Robert

Re: Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by luisvcool

Does this coating work well for the following matte epson papers - Enhanced Matte, 
Velvet Fine Art and Watercolor?

Thanks.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert Morrison 
<rmorrison@p...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 02:05  PM, Alan Zinn wrote:
> 
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > Three questions:
> >
> > Do your coated prints have a nice tactile quality like double weight 
> > FB?
> > Will they hold up to the same handling as conventional prints?
> 
> Yes, Yes, but the prints are heavier than FB if you make them with a 
> 300gm paper.
> >
> > How is the wire wound around the mayer rod? I have a bunch of  glass
> > measuring rods I might be able to use.  Maybe some really nice person 
> > could
> > scan a mayer rod and post it?
> >
> 
> www.rdspecialties.com
> 
> Buy one.  They aren't very expensive and they are a precision milled 
> tool...you would never be able to get there trying to make one yourself.
> 
> Robert

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Robert Morrison

yes, but these are really too thin...and thus performance will be  
variable.  Look for a paper of 300gm plus weight.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 10:11  AM, luisvcool wrote:

> Does this coating work well for the following matte epson papers -  
> Enhanced Matte,
> Velvet Fine Art and Watercolor?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert Morrison
> <rmorrison@p...> wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 02:05  PM, Alan Zinn wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> Three questions:
>>>
>>> Do your coated prints have a nice tactile quality like double weight
>>> FB?
>>> Will they hold up to the same handling as conventional prints?
>>
>> Yes, Yes, but the prints are heavier than FB if you make them with a
>> 300gm paper.
>>>
>>> How is the wire wound around the mayer rod? I have a bunch of  glass
>>> measuring rods I might be able to use.  Maybe some really nice person
>>> could
>>> scan a mayer rod and post it?
>>>
>>
>> www.rdspecialties.com
>>
>> Buy one.  They aren't very expensive and they are a precision milled
>> tool...you would never be able to get there trying to make one  
>> yourself.
>>
>> Robert
>
>
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Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by johngeyles

> www.rdspecialties.com

The site doesn't go into a lotta detail or give prices.

Can you say what exactly you ordered in order to get a
rod suitable for coating prints up to 13x19" on EAM/EEM
or Hahnemule Photo Rag (although I think you've said 
for larger than 8x10 the EAM/EEM is probably too light).

And what you paid for it ?

I gather this PUR coating makes the matte finish of these
papers more like a RC paper ?  Why is this superior to just
printing on something like Ilford Smooth Pearl and spraying
with Krylon (which is said to more or less eliminate the
bronzing) ?

Thanks, John

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Jack M Kucy

In my opinion the superiority of the Mayer Rod coating
over spraying is based on the consistency of the results.
I can't be as repeatedly precise with the spray (unless
investing in a machine to do it for me) as with the rod, and
I can do it on the glass dining table in my living room,
whereas spraying will make the air unbreathable and
everything in a close proximity of the spraying area
covered with spray.
Another thing is that you mentioned that coating with the
rod will produce an effect like RC coating...
So, why not spray the RC papers...
I just do not like the idea of double coat on both sides of
the ink-emulsion layer.  It's something artificial and unstable
in such an approach IMHO.  Another thing is that if I print
on Matte paper I like the print anyway - it's maybe a bit duller
than after coating, but it's beautiful.  However when you use
a RC paper you again have lot's of things happening like
bronzing, the ink being easily rub off and so on...
It's your choice.  But for me there is only one direction until
they (Epson or whoever - like Seagull) comes with the good,
accepting pigment inks glossy or semi glossy RC paper.

Good luck,
Jack

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096     jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle




johngeyles wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> > www.rdspecialties.com
>
> The site doesn't go into a lotta detail or give prices.
>
> Can you say what exactly you ordered in order to get a
> rod suitable for coating prints up to 13x19" on EAM/EEM
> or Hahnemule Photo Rag (although I think you've said
> for larger than 8x10 the EAM/EEM is probably too light).
>
> And what you paid for it ?
>
> I gather this PUR coating makes the matte finish of these
> papers more like a RC paper ?  Why is this superior to just
> printing on something like Ilford Smooth Pearl and spraying
> with Krylon (which is said to more or less eliminate the
> bronzing) ?
>
> Thanks, John
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Robert Morrison

Call them for pricing. You need a #30 Mayer rod.  to coat a 13 x19  
piece of paper you will want 14" inch of wire coverage so the final rod  
length should probably be about 20 inches.  Remember that you will not  
be able to coat the entire 13 x19 sheet using a mayer rod...check the  
past posts on this...there is waste around the edges that will need to  
be trimmed.

That way you can coat along either the 13 or 19 dimension.  Don't use  
EAM...the paper is crape and too thin.


The coated prints look like air-dried silver prints...krylon sprayed RC  
prints...do not.  They are great for proofing though.  Final dmax of  
the two approaches are similar.  I use the Ilford paper in my 2200 for  
proofing and commercial prints while I do my final exhibition prints  
with rag papers and the hand coating.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 11:00  AM, johngeyles wrote:

>
>> www.rdspecialties.com
>
> The site doesn't go into a lotta detail or give prices.
>
> Can you say what exactly you ordered in order to get a
> rod suitable for coating prints up to 13x19" on EAM/EEM
> or Hahnemule Photo Rag (although I think you've said
> for larger than 8x10 the EAM/EEM is probably too light).
>
> And what you paid for it ?
>
> I gather this PUR coating makes the matte finish of these
> papers more like a RC paper ?  Why is this superior to just
> printing on something like Ilford Smooth Pearl and spraying
> with Krylon (which is said to more or less eliminate the
> bronzing) ?
>
> Thanks, John
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US &  
> Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson,  
> Lexmark & more.
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> http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> keep them short.
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> header.
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> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to  
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by johngeyles

> Call them for pricing. You need a #30 Mayer rod.  to coat a 13 x19  
> piece of paper you will want 14" inch of wire coverage so the final
rod  
> length should probably be about 20 inches.  

Another parameter is rod diameter - thicker will flex less.  The
guy says there's no real downside to higher diameter so I priced the
highest 1/2" thickness.   It was $14 + $5 S&H.  Pretty affordable !

> Remember that you will not  
> be able to coat the entire 13 x19 sheet using a mayer rod...check
the  
> past posts on this...there is waste around the edges that will need
to  
> be trimmed.

Where you tape the paper down, no ?

Thanks for explaning the advantage over RC paper with Krylon.
When/if this Oriental fiber-based glossy paper comes along, will
there still be some advantage to the PUR-onto-matte approach, or
will it effectively become obsolete ? 

Thanks, John

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Robert Morrison

Sorry, forgot to mention that...you definitely want the 1/2" rod.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 12:38  PM, johngeyles wrote:

>> Call them for pricing. You need a #30 Mayer rod.  to coat a 13 x19
>> piece of paper you will want 14" inch of wire coverage so the final
> rod
>> length should probably be about 20 inches.
>
> Another parameter is rod diameter - thicker will flex less.  The
> guy says there's no real downside to higher diameter so I priced the
> highest 1/2" thickness.   It was $14 + $5 S&H.  Pretty affordable !
>
>> Remember that you will not
>> be able to coat the entire 13 x19 sheet using a mayer rod...check
> the
>> past posts on this...there is waste around the edges that will need
> to
>> be trimmed.
>
> Where you tape the paper down, no ?
>
> Thanks for explaning the advantage over RC paper with Krylon.
> When/if this Oriental fiber-based glossy paper comes along, will
> there still be some advantage to the PUR-onto-matte approach, or
> will it effectively become obsolete ?
>
> Thanks, John
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US &  
> Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson,  
> Lexmark & more.
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> http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
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> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject  
> header.
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> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the  
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to  
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Ed Mathews

Can someone explain this process of using rods to apply the coating?
Better yet, show some pictures of the set-up?  I've heard about this
since joining the list, but still have not seen anything that really
gives me a good idea of what the heck it's all about.  The rod
manufacturer's websites don't show anything that I can find.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

RE: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by Paul Roark

>Can someone explain this process of using rods to apply the coating?
>...

Here is an information sheet I send to people who ask about it:

Coating inkjet prints (11/26/02)

I have been experimenting with print coatings that raise the dMax to over
2.0 and make the fragile surface of the inkjet prints much tougher and more
durable.  Frankly, the coated carbon-pigment prints I've been making have a
visibly higher dynamic range than my toned silver prints, and the coated
surface is so tough that the print can be displayed without glazing.  Once
the glass is gone, the dynamic range of the print can really shine.  I don't
expect conservative gallery owners to accept the idea very quickly, but
side-by-side with glazed B&W prints, the unglazed, coated inkjet prints will
speak for themselves.

Sprays cannot give the dMax increase that I am looking for.  A thicker
coating is needed.

So far, I favor applying the coating with a #30 wire-wound ("Mayer") rod
(from Diversified Enterprises 800-833-4644) [no longer deals with
consumers - 7/03] for Epson Archival Matte ("EAM") and a #15 for Eclipse
Satine.  Legion Photo Matte with a #15 rod is rather non-reflective, and
with the #30 rod gets a very good dmax and a surface that is close to an
air-dried silver print.

Diversified Enterprises is not set up to handle small accounts.  So, the
latest thought is to have MIS take over retail distribution on the rods.

For 8x10" prints I've been using a 16" (12" of winding) 1/2 inch thick rod
that sells for $22 (but there is a $25 minimum).  If one has just a 13"
printer, I'd recommend 15" of winding and 19" total rod length.  The rod
coating is the only process I've tried that can do a perfect finish in one
coat.

For coating material, some on the Digital B&W Print forum like the Golden
water-based acrylics for the first coat. The Liquitex version -- readily
available -- at 3 parts Liquitex to 1 part water is also a good coating.  In
fact, I favor something like the Liquitex because it has no UV inhibitors,
which often yellow the print too much.

I currently think polyurethane ("PUR") may be a better coating.  It's
superior toughness and resistance to humidity and chemicals may have
significant advantages over the acrylics.  The best practical answer I've
found is the water-based (easy, even if not at tough as the 2-solution,
solvent-based, industrial-strength ones), aliphatic (non-yellowing),
Hydrocote (800-229-4937) Polyshield Gloss [try the satine finish also] PUR.
This is available in one-quart size via mail/telephone order.  The
wire-wound rods apply it easily with no dilution.  It dries very quickly,
but takes about 7 days to cure completely.

The three papers that I've used that work the best are Eclipse Satine, LPM,
and EAM.  They all can be coated with a single application. [Larger prints
may require thicker paper.]

To apply the coating with a rod, I tape the "top" 1/8 inch of the print to a
piece of 1/4" thick glass [thicker glass may be needed for larger prints]
using Scotch Removable tape.  (Have the print upside down so that the larger
bottom border is the one taped.) The glass is for a smooth, flat surface
that I can razor off dried coating if necessary. I've been using a couple
sheets of copy paper under the print. For some papers it helps also to tape
down the bottom corners, although I usually don't bother with this.

About 7 cc (for an 8x10) of Polyshield pulled straight from the can with a
syringe fitted with an MIS bottom-fill attachment is used to lay a "bead" on
the tape and glass above the print.  I make sure there are no bubbles in the
PUR not only before I lay down the bead but also after the bead is on the
tape & glass.  After the bead is laid down, I pull some water into the
syringe and discharge it immediately a couple of times to stop the PUR from
setting-up in the nozzle.

Just before pulling the rod across the print, I use a blower to be sure
there is no dust on it.  Since the can of PUR is only open long enough to
pull out what I need, there should not be any significant amount of dust in
the coating material (I hope -- so far, so good).

After the "bead" (or small, long pool) of coating is on the tape and glass
above the print, I pull the rod through the bead and down across the print.
The weight of the rod supplies most of the downward force needed. I don't
roll the rod, but rather drag it smoothly and not too slowly, keeping the
speed of the pull as constant as possible.  If I get horizontal banding, it
is often because I've pulled the rod too slowly. After I've pulled the
excess coating away from the bottom of the print, I immediately rinse off
the rod.  I definitely don't want the PUR to set-up on the rod.  Having a
sink that is large enough to dump the rod into a water bath immediately
might be a good idea.

I quickly remove the tape from the print. If the PUR sets-up too much before
the tape is pulled off, it will pull off part of the print paper with it.

I usually put the 8x10 print on a dry paper towel as soon as possible.  The
screw-driver that I used to open the can makes a handy tool to run under the
print edges to separate them from the paper and glass under the print.

A damp sponge soaks up the excess coating material and will clean the glass
easily.

Once the glass is clean and dry, I usually pull the print on its paper towel
back onto the glass and dry it a bit with a hair drier.  By this time it is
also dry enough to just hang up to dry.

Between the tape, handling and other problems, I lose a little less than 1/4
inch of each print edge, but that still leaves a good 8x10 print area.

I'm still experimenting with this, so my materials and methods may change.

While the coating process is still experimental, I think it holds great
potential for taking our pigmented inkjet prints to a level that, in many
respects, exceeds the quality of the traditional silver print.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-07-31 by john eckenrode

hi paul
i am just curious if you coated your prints for your
recent exhibition and if you did was there resistance
from the gallery?
just wonderin'
thanks
john e

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RE: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-08-01 by Paul Roark

John,

No, I did not coat the prints for the show.  I think the gallery/museum
crowd is going to want the traditional glazed look, so it was strictly matte
under glass (acrylic, mostly).  Also, I was mixing the Ultra Tone inks and
switching to the 7500.  So, there just was no more time to experiment.

At the time I put my coating on hold, I also was not getting good,
consistent 16x20 coated prints.  When I find time to resume the experiments,
I'll go to thicker glass and paper.  However, when I was doing the
experimenting, all the 16x20 prints were made on the 3000, which just does
not handle thick paper well enough to bother with.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
___________________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: john eckenrode [mailto:ejohn182002@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:51 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Coating - again...


hi paul
i am just curious if you coated your prints for your
recent exhibition and if you did was there resistance
from the gallery?
just wonderin'
thanks
john e

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Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-08-01 by Robert Morrison

I've coated prints for exhibition, no resistance, but it was an art  
gallery, not a photo gallery.  Many photo galleries in general seem to  
be resistant to all different aspects of the digital workflow, but I  
have found no resistance to these new techniques from art galleries.

Robert

PS  The Hydrocote Polyshield was recommeneded to Paul Roark by Golden  
Artist's Colors...probably the top manufacturer and research company  
dedicated to artists materials.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 04:50  PM, john eckenrode wrote:

> hi paul
> i am just curious if you coated your prints for your
> recent exhibition and if you did was there resistance
> from the gallery?
> just wonderin'
> thanks
> john e
>
> __________________________________
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US &  
> Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson,  
> Lexmark & more.
> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject  
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the  
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-08-01 by Tom Husband

...I'll go to thicker glass and paper.  However, when I was doing the
> experimenting, all the 16x20 prints were made on the 3000, which 
just does
> not handle thick paper well enough to bother with.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Why thicker glass, Paul?

Tom

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-08-01 by Alan Zinn

At 10:38 AM 7/31/03 -0400, you wrote:
>Alan,
>Yes, prints coated that way have the quality of the double weight FB (if
>you use a thick stock,
>above 240 gms). And as far as I can tell you handle them the same way
>(however if you want
>to sign them on the front below the image you have to do it before
>coating).  Even sizes are more
>like standard photo paper sizes since you have to cut more or less 1/8"
>on all sizes after coating.
>(in case of 8x10 an least)
>You asked for a scan of the rod.  At the address below you will find a
>picture, which I have just
>taken with the digital camera of one of the ends of the rod.
>
>http://www.jmk-gallery.com/out/DSCF1055.jpg
>
>Hope it helps.
>Jack
>
>_________________________________________________
>Jack M Kucy
>JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
>917-991-2096     jmk@...
>Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
>_________________________________________________
>...a riveder le stelle
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > Three questions:
> >
> > Do your coated prints have a nice tactile quality like double weight FB?
> > Will they hold up to the same handling as conventional prints?
> >
> > How is the wire wound around the mayer rod? I have a bunch of  glass
> > measuring rods I might be able to use.  Maybe some really nice person
> > could
> > scan a mayer rod and post it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > AZ
> >
> >

Jack,

Thanks a lot for posting the mayer rod - not at all what I imagined it to 
look like. I take it that the rod and wire are stainless steel?  Or is that 
s/s wire around glass?  I think I will buy the real thing rather than try 
to make one.

best regards,

AZ




Build a Lookaround!
The Lookaround Book, 2nd ed.
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RE: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-08-01 by Paul Roark

Tom,

>>...I'll go to thicker glass and paper.  However, when I was doing the
>> experimenting, all the 16x20 prints were made on the 3000,
>>which just does
>> not handle thick paper well enough to bother with.
>
>> Paul
>> http://www.PaulRoark.com

>Why thicker glass, Paul?

It looked like the center and edges of the print were not getting the same
amount of PUR.  I thought that could be from the 1/4 inch glass, which was
on a towel and supported by particle-board, might be sagging or otherwise
not being totally parallel to the rod.  I think Diversified's literature
indicates that the set-ups they sell use thicker glass.  On the other hand,
it could be that a 1/2 inch rod is not sufficient to span a 16" print
without bending slightly.  Unfortunately, the thicker rods get expensive.

Diversified also has a pad that can be put under the paper.  I think the
"softness" of the support is a variable that might need to be explored.  As
I understand it, these long rods are not usually used on hard surfaces.  I
think the medium is often dragged across the rod with a flexible web.

I didn't do a lot of  experimenting with 16x20 prints.  I tried a few, was
not satisfied with the results, and ran out of time to do more.  I think the
rod & PUR deserve more work, but I just have not had the time for some
months.  A thorough search of how industry uses them might give some hints
as to what is needed to get good results.  Robert probably has the most
experience with the rod and large prints, so searching his posts would also
be a good idea.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com






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unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
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- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-08-01 by Tom Husband

> It looked like the center and edges of the print were not getting 
the same
> amount of PUR.  I thought that could be from the 1/4 inch glass, 
which was
> on a towel and supported by particle-board, might be sagging or 
otherwise
> not being totally parallel to the rod.  I think Diversified's 
literature
> indicates that the set-ups they sell use thicker glass.  On the 
other hand,
> it could be that a 1/2 inch rod is not sufficient to span a 16" 
print
> without bending slightly.  Unfortunately, the thicker rods get 
expensive.
> 
> Diversified also has a pad that can be put under the paper.  I 
think the
> "softness" of the support is a variable that might need to be 
explored.  As
> I understand it, these long rods are not usually used on hard 
surfaces.  I
> think the medium is often dragged across the rod with a flexible 
web.
> 
> I didn't do a lot of  experimenting with 16x20 prints.  I tried a 
few, was
> not satisfied with the results, and ran out of time to do more.  I 
think the
> rod & PUR deserve more work, but I just have not had the time for 
some
> months.  A thorough search of how industry uses them might give 
some hints
> as to what is needed to get good results.  Robert probably has the 
most
> experience with the rod and large prints, so searching his posts 
would also
> be a good idea.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul.  I'll look up what Robert has to say.

Tom

Re: [Digital BW] Coating - again...

2003-08-01 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 6:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Coating - again...


> Tom,
>
> >>...I'll go to thicker glass and paper.  However, when I was
doing the
> >> experimenting, all the 16x20 prints were made on the 3000,
> >>which just does
> >> not handle thick paper well enough to bother with.
> >
> >> Paul
> >> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
> >Why thicker glass, Paul?
>
> It looked like the center and edges of the print were not
getting the same
> amount of PUR.  I thought that could be from the 1/4 inch
glass, which was
> on a towel and supported by particle-board, might be sagging or
otherwise
> not being totally parallel to the rod.  I think Diversified's
literature
> indicates that the set-ups they sell use thicker glass.  On the
other hand,
> it could be that a 1/2 inch rod is not sufficient to span a 16"
print
> without bending slightly.  Unfortunately, the thicker rods get
expensive.
>
> Diversified also has a pad that can be put under the paper.  I
think the
> "softness" of the support is a variable that might need to be
explored.  As
> I understand it, these long rods are not usually used on hard
surfaces.  I
> think the medium is often dragged across the rod with a
flexible web.
>
> I didn't do a lot of  experimenting with 16x20 prints.  I tried
a few, was
> not satisfied with the results, and ran out of time to do more.
I think the
> rod & PUR deserve more work, but I just have not had the time
for some
> months.  A thorough search of how industry uses them might give
some hints
> as to what is needed to get good results.  Robert probably has
the most
> experience with the rod and large prints, so searching his
posts would also
> be a good idea.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

I've been thinking about another setup since we discussed the
coating technique ages ago. What you experience with larger
images is what happens with most manual coating systems and
similar mechanised ones. Not just bending of the table top or the
rod but also the force you have to apply with wider rods, longer
strokes, constant speed is asking for another method. Like in
most printing methods it is a easier to achieve equal pressure
between two cylinders over the width and the length of the
stroke. Probably over the top for 16 x 20 but who knows what is
next.

So a setup with a cylinder in bearings below and the fixed (so
not rotating) rod above with pressure control like an intanglio
press has some benefits.
The difference being that the pressure can be much lower than in
an etching press. To get the sheet coated you could use a
polyester sheet of precise thickness (most are as they are often
used for film mounting etc), and on that the to be coated sheet
taped at the start. Bring the polyester sheet between the
cylinder and the rod. pour the coating in front of the paper and
pull the total through the slit, a handgrip bar at front and
along the width of the polyester sheet will make it easier.
Another bar at the other end of the sheet to stop the action.
having this pressure unit (temporarily, think "table tennis net")
in the middle of a table you can use it in two directions but
then you need another method to fix the paper than taping it.

The diameter of the cylinder below can be measured to the width
of the paper to get stiffness. There's literature enough how
printing press cylinders are constructed but I guess with the low
pressure needed any cylinder will be good. The bar diameter is
another matter as it also gives the coating thickness. But since
it isn't rolling it can get strength from a beam above with some
adjustable screws along its length. Quite a construction I agree
but I have sizes up to 2.5 feet in mind, for smaller sizes it can
be much simpler. With someone to help you you don't need a table
either in coating or just a small table. Simplicity and easy
deassembling is needed for cleaning the equipment. A wider
cylinder and poly sheet than the rod width helps there too.

I do have the parts more or less but little time. Then there's a
silkscreen machine in the shop, so I got an alternative. This
isn't a proven method but to let it linger in my mind without
mentioning it may not be good either.


Ernst

Test, do not read

2003-09-04 by Bruce Kinch

Test
-- 
Bruce C. Kinch
Associate Professor of Photography
The Art Institute of Boston at Lesley University

Move to quarantaine

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