Digital BW, The Print

I have managed to get Roy's program to install in both RedHat 9.0 and
SuSE 8.2 dialects of linux. As far as I can see the correct things have
been stuffed into the proper folders. However, when I bring gimp-print
up (from right clicking a gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the
quad series of printers to show up when I hit new. I can find the ppds
where they should be ( /usr/share/cups/ppds/C ) but then none of the
quad specific choices appear, for that matter the usual choices that
exist for an epson printer are grayed out.

I tried going back to the print manager and adding a new printer via
cups but the same thing happened. 

I am obviously missing a step but after going through the documentation
multiple times I can't find where I have goofed. 

Could any of you who have this up and running on a linuxbox give me a
hint?

Thanks,

Roger

Roger Sopher
rlsopher@...

This is a modified version of an email I sent recently about the same
problem: 

The Gimp seems to use its own plugin for printing and overrides any
quadtone settings. I struggled with that for a long time, but gave up in
the end. What works for me is to share the printer over the network and
print to it from Photoshop in windows like any regular printer.

First of all you need to install the CUPS windows drivers on the Linux
machine and then share the printer with Samba. Then windows should be
able to find the correct drivers when it tries to install the printer
over the network.

You can find the windows drivers here:
http://www.cups.org/software.php?SOFTWARE=v1_1&LOCATION=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.
easysw.com%2Fpub%2Fcups

It should be called "CUPS 1.1.19 Drivers for Windows (.tar.gz)"

Here's the documentation for installation:
http://www.cups.org/sam.html#8_8

Below you can find my smb.conf where I share the printer with Samba. The
setup is very insecure, giving root access to everything on the box, so
I wouldn't reccommend using that configuration permanently, but for
testing it's fine.

Don't under any circumstances use the adobe postscript drivers for
printing from windows, just the regular drivers. You will get output
with the Adobe drivers, but it also creates some sort of unwanted double
profiling. 

Although the windows drivers installs the correct PPD file not all of
the settings will work when you set them from windows, so you'll have to
set them in linux before you print. You can just use lpoptions on the
command-line, or gtklp which I use.

smb.conf:

[global]
	log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m
	load printers = yes
	socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
	wins server = 10.0.0.2
	encrypt passwords = yes
	dns proxy = no 
	netbios name = rip
	printing = cups
	server string = %h server (Samba %v)
	default = Disk
	remote announce = 10.0.0.2
	workgroup = workgroup
	os level = 20
	printcap name = cups
	security = user
	max log size = 50

[Disk]
	force user = root
	valid users = daniel
	writeable = yes
	delete readonly = yes
	path = /
	write list = daniel,@root
	force group = root

[EpsonQuad]
	printable = yes
	printer driver = EpsonQuad
	path = /var/spool/samba


--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Sopher [mailto:rlsopher@...] 
> Sent: 18. august 2003 00:25
> To: B&W Print Forum
> Subject: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP
> 
> 
> I have managed to get Roy's program to install in both RedHat 
> 9.0 and SuSE 8.2 dialects of linux. As far as I can see the 
> correct things have been stuffed into the proper folders. 
> However, when I bring gimp-print up (from right clicking a 
> gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the quad series of 
> printers to show up when I hit new. I can find the ppds where 
> they should be ( /usr/share/cups/ppds/C ) but then none of 
> the quad specific choices appear, for that matter the usual 
> choices that exist for an epson printer are grayed out.
> 
> I tried going back to the print manager and adding a new 
> printer via cups but the same thing happened. 
> 
> I am obviously missing a step but after going through the 
> documentation multiple times I can't find where I have goofed. 
> 
> Could any of you who have this up and running on a linuxbox 
> give me a hint?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger
> 
> Roger Sopher
> rlsopher@...
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits 
> for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. 
> Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. 
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
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Many thanks Daniel, I have samba running for file sharing so I will give the
print share a go.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Daniel Staver [mailto:daniel@...]
  Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 4:45 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP


  This is a modified version of an email I sent recently about the same
  problem:

  The Gimp seems to use its own plugin for printing and overrides any
  quadtone settings. I struggled with that for a long time, but gave up in
  the end. What works for me is to share the printer over the network and
  print to it from Photoshop in windows like any regular printer.

  First of all you need to install the CUPS windows drivers on the Linux
  machine and then share the printer with Samba. Then windows should be
  able to find the correct drivers when it tries to install the printer
  over the network.

  You can find the windows drivers here:
  http://www.cups.org/software.php?SOFTWARE=v1_1&LOCATION=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.
  easysw.com%2Fpub%2Fcups

  It should be called "CUPS 1.1.19 Drivers for Windows (.tar.gz)"

  Here's the documentation for installation:
  http://www.cups.org/sam.html#8_8

  Below you can find my smb.conf where I share the printer with Samba. The
  setup is very insecure, giving root access to everything on the box, so
  I wouldn't reccommend using that configuration permanently, but for
  testing it's fine.

  Don't under any circumstances use the adobe postscript drivers for
  printing from windows, just the regular drivers. You will get output
  with the Adobe drivers, but it also creates some sort of unwanted double
  profiling.

  Although the windows drivers installs the correct PPD file not all of
  the settings will work when you set them from windows, so you'll have to
  set them in linux before you print. You can just use lpoptions on the
  command-line, or gtklp which I use.

  smb.conf:

  [global]
        log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m
        load printers = yes
        socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
        wins server = 10.0.0.2
        encrypt passwords = yes
        dns proxy = no
        netbios name = rip
        printing = cups
        server string = %h server (Samba %v)
        default = Disk
        remote announce = 10.0.0.2
        workgroup = workgroup
        os level = 20
        printcap name = cups
        security = user
        max log size = 50

  [Disk]
        force user = root
        valid users = daniel
        writeable = yes
        delete readonly = yes
        path = /
        write list = daniel,@root
        force group = root

  [EpsonQuad]
        printable = yes
        printer driver = EpsonQuad
        path = /var/spool/samba


  --
  Daniel Staver
  http://daniel.staver.no

  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Roger Sopher [mailto:rlsopher@...]
  > Sent: 18. august 2003 00:25
  > To: B&W Print Forum
  > Subject: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP
  >
  >
  > I have managed to get Roy's program to install in both RedHat
  > 9.0 and SuSE 8.2 dialects of linux. As far as I can see the
  > correct things have been stuffed into the proper folders.
  > However, when I bring gimp-print up (from right clicking a
  > gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the quad series of
  > printers to show up when I hit new. I can find the ppds where
  > they should be ( /usr/share/cups/ppds/C ) but then none of
  > the quad specific choices appear, for that matter the usual
  > choices that exist for an epson printer are grayed out.
  >
  > I tried going back to the print manager and adding a new
  > printer via cups but the same thing happened.
  >
  > I am obviously missing a step but after going through the
  > documentation multiple times I can't find where I have goofed.
  >
  > Could any of you who have this up and running on a linuxbox
  > give me a hint?
  >
  > Thanks,
  >
  > Roger
  >
  > Roger Sopher
  > rlsopher@...
  >
  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  > ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits
  > for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com.
  > Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
  http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
  http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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them short.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can you tell me what you used to guide you through setting this up
on Linux?

The author's notes seem to be for a MAC...


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Roger Sopher
<rlsopher@c...> wrote:

> I have managed to get Roy's program to install in both RedHat 9.0 and
> SuSE 8.2 dialects of linux. As far as I can see the correct things have
> been stuffed into the proper folders. However, when I bring gimp-print
> up (from right clicking a gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the
> quad series of printers to show up when I hit new. I can find the ppds
> where they should be ( /usr/share/cups/ppds/C ) but then none of the
> quad specific choices appear, for that matter the usual choices that
> exist for an epson printer are grayed out.
> 
> I tried going back to the print manager and adding a new printer via
> cups but the same thing happened. 
> 
> I am obviously missing a step but after going through the documentation
> multiple times I can't find where I have goofed. 
> 
> Could any of you who have this up and running on a linuxbox give me a
> hint?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger
> 
> Roger Sopher
> rlsopher@d...

Daniel Staver is far more expert in this than I am. If I have any glaring
errors or omissions I hope he will jump in and correct them - but -  Here is
how I did it. The directions are for a mac and linux doesn't have some of
the nice front end goodies that the mac does so they simply do not apply for
much of the installation on a linuxbox.  I simply banged on it until I more
or less figured it out. I used linux a fair bit in the dim past to set up
web and file servers but that was well before it had a graphical front end
or a decent printing system. I have had to relearn much of it. Not all
versions of linux are good candidates for QuadRip. RedHat 9.0 works well,
SuSE 8.2 works OK, Mandrake 9.1 does not because they have tinkered with
some of the file names in implementing the cups system. I would suggest
standardizing on the Redhat version.

Depending on how you installed your linux system you may not have all of the
packages that you need to install QuadRip. You are probably going to have to
download a rpm containing cups-devel-1.1.1x where x is the version of cups
that your system is using, typically 9. In SuSE you may have to download the
cups development library as well. The reason for this is that the install of
QuadRIP requires cups-config which is in the development package but not in
the standard cups installation.

Once cups-devel is installed then QuadRIP will install. Basically, after you
download QuadRip put a copy in /usr/share and gunzip off the gz. run
tar -xvf on the QuadRIP tar package and it will set up a new directory,
QuadToneRIP2-beta,  containing what you will need to complete the install.
CD into the new Quad directory and run make-quadtonerip then run
install-quadtonerip. That should set up the basic QuadRIP system. To
generate curves and the like you will need to go to the specific program
elements and run them from a command line. The directories these are in are
listed in Roy's documentation.

Now the rub. You can't (at least I can't) print in QuadRIP directly from
linux. The way gimp-print is implemented doesn't allow you to select the
QuadRIP drivers when setting up the Quadtone printer. Appaerntly this can be
circumvented by setting up samba and printing from windows. I am in the
process of implementing that step after Daniel Staver was kind enough to
share how he did it with me. His message detailing this complete with his
smb.conf file is  in the archives.

Linux has the advantage of being free and you can stick it onto virtually
any old PC that you might have lying around. But there is significant sweat
equity involved in becoming comfortable with the operating system if you go
beyond the installed graphical interface. On the other hand it is so much
cleaner and faster than windows, particularly on older PCs, that you may
find yourself using the linuxbox for more than printing.

I have hedged my bet and bought an old mac powerpc (beige box) on ebay that
I will fuss with if the linux version does not fulfill my needs. Plus I want
to give opm/ijc a try as well. I have waited for the new piezo software and
have lost all confidence that it will be forthcoming so an alternative
solution is a necessity. Quad and opm seem to fit that bill.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: dilcher [mailto:dilcher@...]
  Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 9:36 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: QUAD2-RIP


  Can you tell me what you used to guide you through setting this up
  on Linux?

  The author's notes seem to be for a MAC...


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Roger Sopher
  <rlsopher@c...> wrote:
  > I have managed to get Roy's program to install in both RedHat 9.0 and
  > SuSE 8.2 dialects of linux. As far as I can see the correct things have
  > been stuffed into the proper folders. However, when I bring gimp-print
  > up (from right clicking a gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the
  > quad series of printers to show up when I hit new. I can find the ppds
  > where they should be ( /usr/share/cups/ppds/C ) but then none of the
  > quad specific choices appear, for that matter the usual choices that
  > exist for an epson printer are grayed out.
  >
  > I tried going back to the print manager and adding a new printer via
  > cups but the same thing happened.
  >
  > I am obviously missing a step but after going through the documentation
  > multiple times I can't find where I have goofed.
  >
  > Could any of you who have this up and running on a linuxbox give me a
  > hint?
  >
  > Thanks,
  >
  > Roger
  >
  > Roger Sopher
  > rlsopher@d...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roger,

your setup sounds about correct. There are some issues with the sharing
of the printer to windows:

You have to set the curves directly in linux using lpoptions. You can
select the curves in the windows driver, but they don't have any effect
on the resulting print. Also the curves aren't updated in the windows
driver when you add new curves in Linux.

You can edit /etc/cups/lpoptions directly and add the options there. Use
'lpoptions -p <printername> -l' to list available options.

This is what my file looks like at the moment:

Default EpsonQuad ColorModel=QTRIP ripBlend=100 ripCurve1=2100-warm
PageSize=A4 InputSlot=Auto Resolution=1440x1440hq2 MediaType=Matte
stpDensity=2000

InputSlot=Auto is very important, otherwise windows won't print.

Density has to be set to 2.000 for the calibration procedure to work.

'Quadtone calibration' has to be set both in windows and in Linux when
you do the calibration.

There may be other options that only has an effect when set in either
windows or linux, but I haven't systematically gone through all of them
to find out which. 

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Also, I've found that I have to run

cupsaddsmb -U root QTR2200

Where QTR2200 is the printer name for QTR.  I have to do this after 
changing settings on the Linux print server otherwise new curves don't 
propigate to the windows client.  I also usually need to restart SMB on 
the server AND do a complete reboot of Win2K.  I hope that this is just 
me, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a windows 'feature'.  I was 
scratching my head about those density settings for the longest time.

Anyone else using CUPS/Samba/Windows notice this?  Am I on crack?

Daniel Staver wrote:

|Roger,
|
|your setup sounds about correct. There are some issues with the sharing
|of the printer to windows:
|
|You have to set the curves directly in linux using lpoptions. You can
|select the curves in the windows driver, but they don't have any effect
|on the resulting print. Also the curves aren't updated in the windows
|driver when you add new curves in Linux.
|
|You can edit /etc/cups/lpoptions directly and add the options there. Use
|'lpoptions -p <printername> -l' to list available options.
|
|This is what my file looks like at the moment:
|
|Default EpsonQuad ColorModel=QTRIP ripBlend=100 ripCurve1=2100-warm
|PageSize=A4 InputSlot=Auto Resolution=1440x1440hq2 MediaType=Matte
|stpDensity=2000
|
|InputSlot=Auto is very important, otherwise windows won't print.
|
|Density has to be set to 2.000 for the calibration procedure to work.
|
|'Quadtone calibration' has to be set both in windows and in Linux when
|you do the calibration.
|
|There may be other options that only has an effect when set in either
|windows or linux, but I haven't systematically gone through all of them
|to find out which.
|
|--
|Daniel Staver
|http://daniel.staver.no
|
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
|
|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same page.
|
|Please follow these basic guidelines:
|- Include your full name with your message.
|- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
keep them short.
|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
|- Complete your Yahoo profile.
|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
|
|
|
|
|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

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Thanks for the instructions on installing this on Linux.  It doesn't
sound to hard, but I have been using linux for the past few years as
my primary PC.  I have a dual boot machine, that lets me use
WindowsXP, which I keep there *only* because I had to run Photoshop,
and my Piezo plugin, which is windows based.

I too have become somewhat disillusioned with the Piezo system- both
with the cost of the inks, and with the knowledge that I am going to
have to fork out more money for the new curves, after only owning the
system for a relatively short time.

I have just purchasd some of Paul's inks from MIS, and am anticipating
using the freely available curves in conjunction with my Photoshop
under Windows XP.  The thought of doing my workflow entirely within
Linux intrigues me, however!

My question:

What does the Quad2-rip gain me, considering the above?  Obviously, I
wouldn't have to use Windows, as I am planning on using Photoshop via
Wine/Crossover Office within Linux, and am printing with the cups
driver, I guess.

Is the Quad2-rip essentially a freely available set of curves, created
independently of Paul, which have the benefit of being able to be used
in a Mac/Linux environment?  Are the curves similar to the 4
warm-2-cool curves that Paul has?  Are there any other aspects of this
way of printing that I may not be understanding completely?

Thanks for the clues!

I hope the bugs can be worked out to use this entirely within Linux,
and not have to "samba" over to a windows box, as I am trying to break
forever my dependency on Redmond....

I am having a crazy time getting the print share to operate correctly. I
have no problem sharing directories or the like. I put in all of the
smb.conf subsections having to do with printer sharing (copied from man
cupsadsmb). The epson printer I set cups up  for (which works like a charm
from linux by the way) shows up with no problem when I go through the
network setup (WINXP) but then when I choose it it won't upload the cups
driver from the linux box.

Could you briefly go through how you set up your QTR printer both on the
linuxbox AND the PC?

Thanks,

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
  Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:01 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: QUAD2-RIP



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "Roger Sopher" <rlsopher@...>
> However, when I bring gimp-print
> up (from right clicking a gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the
> quad series of printers to show up when I hit new. 

I am running QTR2 on Debian and I just use Gtklp to print.
Qtcups and Xpp are also available, although with Xpp the tabs get very
squashed up.

I do my photo editing using Picture Windows running under Wine.
( www.dl-c.com for PW and on the main screen do a search for Linux
to get you going on Wine.)

Reinier

Hi Reinier,

The problem isn't being able to print. I can print with the gimp-print
plugin from gimp using the cups epson drivers without any problem. In fact I
have produced a number of rather nice black only prints that way. My problem
is defining a printer using Roy's modified drivers. When I try to add a new
printer none of the QTR printers show up, only those on the original "cups
list."  I am obviously missing a step but what it is is beyond me at the
moment. QTR2 is installed and the various elements are where they ought to
be - they just don't show up in trying to define a new printer. arrrrrgh.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Reinier van der Ryst [mailto:rvdryst@...]
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:38 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP


  From: "Roger Sopher" <rlsopher@...>
  > However, when I bring gimp-print
  > up (from right clicking a gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the
  > quad series of printers to show up when I hit new.

  I am running QTR2 on Debian and I just use Gtklp to print.
  Qtcups and Xpp are also available, although with Xpp the tabs get very
  squashed up.

  I do my photo editing using Picture Windows running under Wine.
  ( www.dl-c.com for PW and on the main screen do a search for Linux
  to get you going on Wine.)

  Reinier


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roger,

I don't have Linux so I'm not familiar with the programs Reinier mentioned
but here's the basic idea of how it should all work.

The PPD files are the main glue that connects everything together.  QTR
has it's own complete set of these PPD files.  The QTR versions all have
".quad." in their file names and they should be in the same directory as
the ordinary gimp-print PPDs.  
Internally the main differences in QTR PPDs are:
1) they have all the selections for QTR curves etc.
2) they specify the special CUPS filter rastertoprinter-quad
3) they have QuadToneRIP as the "Manufacturer" instead of Epson.
   -- this should just group them separately

Here are a couple of things to try:
If you can Add the printer with the ordinary PPD, you ought to be able
to then use "lpadmin" to change the PPD to the QTR PPD.
The cups browser interface http://localhost:631 ought to let you
select default values for all the QTR special parameters.
There is also "lpoptions" which may work as well.
At that point as long as lp or lpr or gtklp honor what's in the PPD
you should be able to print thru quadtonerip.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger L Sopher" 
<rlsopher@c...> wrote:

> Hi Reinier,
> 
> The problem isn't being able to print. I can print with the gimp-print
> plugin from gimp using the cups epson drivers without any problem. In fact I
> have produced a number of rather nice black only prints that way. My problem
> is defining a printer using Roy's modified drivers. When I try to add a new
> printer none of the QTR printers show up, only those on the original "cups
> list."  I am obviously missing a step but what it is is beyond me at the
> moment. QTR2 is installed and the various elements are where they ought to
> be - they just don't show up in trying to define a new printer. arrrrrgh.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Reinier van der Ryst [mailto:rvdryst@t...]
>   Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:38 AM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP
> 
> 
>   From: "Roger Sopher" <rlsopher@c...>
>   > However, when I bring gimp-print
>   > up (from right clicking a gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get the
>   > quad series of printers to show up when I hit new.
> 
>   I am running QTR2 on Debian and I just use Gtklp to print.
>   Qtcups and Xpp are also available, although with Xpp the tabs get very
>   squashed up.
> 
>   I do my photo editing using Picture Windows running under Wine.
>   ( www.dl-c.com for PW and on the main screen do a search for Linux
>   to get you going on Wine.)
> 
>   Reinier
>

On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 02:11  PM, Roger L Sopher wrote:

> Hi Reinier,
>
> The problem isn't being able to print. I can print with the gimp-print
> plugin from gimp using the cups epson drivers without any problem. In 
> fact I
> have produced a number of rather nice black only prints that way. My 
> problem
> is defining a printer using Roy's modified drivers. When I try to add 
> a new
> printer none of the QTR printers show up, only those on the original 
> "cups
> list."  I am obviously missing a step but what it is is beyond me at 
> the
> moment. QTR2 is installed and the various elements are where they 
> ought to
> be - they just don't show up in trying to define a new printer. 
> arrrrrgh.
>
> Roger
>

Roger,

Are you using OS X? I had no problem getting QTR installed and showing 
up n Print Center. .  Be sure you follow the printer naming convention 
as outlined.  Your cups printer name when you "add" the printer and the 
name in the profile txt files must be exactly the same.

My problem came with getting the curves to show up in the 
CurvesDropBox. I could only get the txt file of the curves  to show up. 
  If you get the QuadTone printer to show up but are not getting the 
curves to show up when you go to print email me off list and I will 
tell you how I solved the problem.

David


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Roy,

I used webmin to get into the defined printer and managed to change the ppd
without any problem. Now when I go to cups admin I can set the various
parameters just as you suggested should happen. Next job will be to print
something. Gimp-print still won't provide the proper choices so I need to
work out a new printing work flow.

thanks for the help.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Roy Harrington [mailto:roy@...]
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:23 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP



  Roger,

  I don't have Linux so I'm not familiar with the programs Reinier mentioned
  but here's the basic idea of how it should all work.

  The PPD files are the main glue that connects everything together.  QTR
  has it's own complete set of these PPD files.  The QTR versions all have
  ".quad." in their file names and they should be in the same directory as
  the ordinary gimp-print PPDs.
  Internally the main differences in QTR PPDs are:
  1) they have all the selections for QTR curves etc.
  2) they specify the special CUPS filter rastertoprinter-quad
  3) they have QuadToneRIP as the "Manufacturer" instead of Epson.
     -- this should just group them separately

  Here are a couple of things to try:
  If you can Add the printer with the ordinary PPD, you ought to be able
  to then use "lpadmin" to change the PPD to the QTR PPD.
  The cups browser interface http://localhost:631 ought to let you
  select default values for all the QTR special parameters.
  There is also "lpoptions" which may work as well.
  At that point as long as lp or lpr or gtklp honor what's in the PPD
  you should be able to print thru quadtonerip.

  Roy

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger L Sopher"
  <rlsopher@c...> wrote:
  > Hi Reinier,
  >
  > The problem isn't being able to print. I can print with the gimp-print
  > plugin from gimp using the cups epson drivers without any problem. In
fact I
  > have produced a number of rather nice black only prints that way. My
problem
  > is defining a printer using Roy's modified drivers. When I try to add a
new
  > printer none of the QTR printers show up, only those on the original
"cups
  > list."  I am obviously missing a step but what it is is beyond me at the
  > moment. QTR2 is installed and the various elements are where they ought
to
  > be - they just don't show up in trying to define a new printer.
arrrrrgh.
  >
  > Roger
  >
  >
  >   -----Original Message-----
  >   From: Reinier van der Ryst [mailto:rvdryst@t...]
  >   Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:38 AM
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP
  >
  >
  >   From: "Roger Sopher" <rlsopher@c...>
  >   > However, when I bring gimp-print
  >   > up (from right clicking a gimp image) I'll be dipped if I can get
the
  >   > quad series of printers to show up when I hit new.
  >
  >   I am running QTR2 on Debian and I just use Gtklp to print.
  >   Qtcups and Xpp are also available, although with Xpp the tabs get very
  >   squashed up.
  >
  >   I do my photo editing using Picture Windows running under Wine.
  >   ( www.dl-c.com for PW and on the main screen do a search for Linux
  >   to get you going on Wine.)
  >
  >   Reinier
  >



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi David,

No, I am using linux. There are similarities due to the BSD origin of both
operating systems but the port to linux from the mac is not entirely
intuitive.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: David M. dorn [mailto:dmdorn_ct_usa@...]
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:47 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP



  On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 02:11  PM, Roger L Sopher wrote:

  > Hi Reinier,
  >
  > The problem isn't being able to print. I can print with the gimp-print
  > plugin from gimp using the cups epson drivers without any problem. In
  > fact I
  > have produced a number of rather nice black only prints that way. My
  > problem
  > is defining a printer using Roy's modified drivers. When I try to add
  > a new
  > printer none of the QTR printers show up, only those on the original
  > "cups
  > list."  I am obviously missing a step but what it is is beyond me at
  > the
  > moment. QTR2 is installed and the various elements are where they
  > ought to
  > be - they just don't show up in trying to define a new printer.
  > arrrrrgh.
  >
  > Roger
  >

  Roger,

  Are you using OS X? I had no problem getting QTR installed and showing
  up n Print Center. .  Be sure you follow the printer naming convention
  as outlined.  Your cups printer name when you "add" the printer and the
  name in the profile txt files must be exactly the same.

  My problem came with getting the curves to show up in the
  CurvesDropBox. I could only get the txt file of the curves  to show up.
    If you get the QuadTone printer to show up but are not getting the
  curves to show up when you go to print email me off list and I will
  tell you how I solved the problem.

  David


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just bought an epson 2200, so I am a newborn to all those problems 
of printing bw that you perfectly know.

My first problem is very basic, I am unable to swap the light black 
and photo back carttridges. The light black one seems not to fit in 
the photo black slot. Would any kind soul tell me what I am doing 
wrong?

Thank you very much
J.
--

Well, yes, thank you. I thought that in order to use the light black 
instead of the photo black I had to swap them, that's to say, to 
interchange their positions in the tray. Obviously, I have here a 
linguistic problem. Maybe you can tell me, then, how to use 
exclusively the matte black... :-)

>Finally, an easy problem for a change!!  :)
>
>The light black one fits only in the light black slot.  Photo and 
>Matte blacks fit in
>the black slot!
>
>best regards,
>
>Jon Cone
>
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, JR Velasco <
>jrv@s...> wrote:
>>  I just bought an epson 2200, so I am a newborn to all those problems
>>  of printing bw that you perfectly know.
>>
>>  My first problem is very basic, I am unable to swap the light black
>>  and photo back carttridges. The light black one seems not to fit in
>>  the photo black slot. Would any kind soul tell me what I am doing
>>  wrong?
>>
>>  Thank you very much
>>  J.
>>  --
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
>to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
>this same page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
>to keep them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
>various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


-- 
Jesús D. Rodríguez-Velasco
Dept. of Spanish and Portuguese
University of California, Berkeley
5319 Dwinelle Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720-2590

tel. +1 510 643 3916
fax +1 510 642 6957

OK, I am sorry, disregard my previous message: I thought light black 
and matte black were the same...
--

From: "Roger L Sopher" <rlsopher@...>

Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 20:11
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP


> My problem
> is defining a printer using Roy's modified drivers.

Hi Roger

The GIMP (1.2.3) prints only with the standard Gimp-print defined printers.
The plugin in The GIMP does not see Roy's QTR printers.
gtklp, xpp and qtcups all three sees the printers you have defined for QTR.
So whichever photo editing s/w you use, save the image somewhwere, open up
one of the three mentioned printer "drivers" and you will see all the QTR
options. It also allows you to print straight from linux.

The print plug-in that The GIMP uses does not allow the QTR options.

As I said previously, I use Debian but I am sure that all three the programs
I mentioned will be available for RH, SuSE and BSD.

Reinier

Finally, an easy problem for a change!!  :)

The light black one fits only in the light black slot.  Photo and Matte blacks fit in 
the black slot!

best regards,

Jon Cone


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, JR Velasco <
jrv@s...> wrote:

> I just bought an epson 2200, so I am a newborn to all those problems 
> of printing bw that you perfectly know.
> 
> My first problem is very basic, I am unable to swap the light black 
> and photo back carttridges. The light black one seems not to fit in 
> the photo black slot. Would any kind soul tell me what I am doing 
> wrong?
> 
> Thank you very much
> J.
> --

I'm trying to decide which printer to get for black and white printing -- 
probably with Pizeogaphy, and definitely with matt paper & ink.

Most advice I get sends to to the Epson 1280.

Others say get the Epson 2200, and perhaps the ImagePrint RIP as well.

And others aay go with Canon i9800.  (I believe the Pizeography support for 
this printer is coming soon.)

What do YOU say?

- - -

A few notes and other questions:

If the 2200 with its regular ink set is fine, then I'd have the advantage 
of not needing to dedicate one printer to B&W.  Or ... is that a false economy?

I'm also looking at color printing, and trying to balance the brilliance of 
a dye based ink on the 1280 or i9800 vs the pigment ink on the 2200 with 
its greater longevity.  How significant are these differences?  Is there 
THAT MUCH more brilliance, or more longevity?

Right now all I've got is an Epson 1520, which would not be the printer of 
choice for any of this.  So my choice will not be based on inertia, but on 
what is truly best.

Have any of you been to the workshps that Cone Editions offers?  Should I 
go to one of these before investing in equipment (and, more importantly, in 
my time trying to get good results from that equipment)?  Or would I be 
better prepared if I've spent time tyring to get it right, knowing that I 
lack some knowledge and understanding.

Are any of you near Portland ME?

  A r t h u r   F i n k   P h o t o g r a p h y
  .................................................
  Ten New Island Avenue     · 207.766.5722
  Peaks Island, Maine 04108 · arthur@...

The matte black which does not come with the printer but can be
purchased separately goes into the photo black spot.  Each cartridge is
chipped so the computer can tell which ink is in the printer as well as
give you remaining ink data.

Eileen

JR Velasco wrote:

> 
> Well, yes, thank you. I thought that in order to use the light black
> instead of the photo black I had to swap them, that's to say, to
> interchange their positions in the tray. Obviously, I have here a
> linguistic problem. Maybe you can tell me, then, how to use
> exclusively the matte black... :-)

Hi Reinier,

Using webmin I got the proper ppd associated with my quad defined printer. I
can indeed see it from QTCups and perform any of the adjustments needed or
for that matter from cupsadmin using a browser. Since I can't print directly
from gimp, what photo editing software do you suggest that can print to one
of the three packages you mentioned. I tried hitting print on QTCups but all
I got was an error message that its queue was empty and I could not find
anything that appears to allow direct loading of a file to print.

At this point I think I am inches from being able to print using the QTR2
drivers. Next will be to work out the curve generating part of the package.

Thanks,

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Reinier van der Ryst [mailto:rvdryst@...]
  Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 12:43 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP


  From: "Roger L Sopher" <rlsopher@...>
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 20:11
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QUAD2-RIP


  > My problem
  > is defining a printer using Roy's modified drivers.

  Hi Roger

  The GIMP (1.2.3) prints only with the standard Gimp-print defined
printers.
  The plugin in The GIMP does not see Roy's QTR printers.
  gtklp, xpp and qtcups all three sees the printers you have defined for
QTR.
  So whichever photo editing s/w you use, save the image somewhwere, open up
  one of the three mentioned printer "drivers" and you will see all the QTR
  options. It also allows you to print straight from linux.

  The print plug-in that The GIMP uses does not allow the QTR options.

  As I said previously, I use Debian but I am sure that all three the
programs
  I mentioned will be available for RH, SuSE and BSD.

  Reinier


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  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roger- 

Just go into a terminal, and, at the prompt, type:

qtcups <filename>

where <filename> is the file you want to print.

Let us know how it turns out.  I might have to install
the Qtr2 software on this Mandrake box!



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger L Sopher"
<rlsopher@c...> wrote:

> of the three packages you mentioned. I tried hitting print on QTCups
but all
> I got was an error message that its queue was empty and I could not find
> anything that appears to allow direct loading of a file to print.
> 
> At this point I think I am inches from being able to print using the
QTR2
> drivers. Next will be to work out the curve generating part of the
package.

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger

Here is how I tried to answer a similar question on the Piezography3000 group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/message/22908

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a simple answer to your question>

Personally, the more I think about it, the more I am inclined to go with Epson 2200 
and either bite the bullet and buy ImagePrint 5.6 ($495) or try experimenting with 
QuadToneRIP 2.0 (free) to get both neutral B+W prints and color prints on one 
printer.

But, NO the Epson 2200 will not produce decent B+W prints out of the box using the 
Epson driver and the UC OEM inks.

Hopefully, Epson or Canon will come out with an OEM B+W solution soon.

A simple solution is to use the printer you have.  The
piezo driver will run the 1520 and as it is pretty
much the same beast as a 3000, you may have a winner
there.


> Right now all I've got is an Epson 1520, which would
> not be the printer of 
> choice for any of this.  So my choice will not be
> based on inertia, but on 
> what is truly best.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Arthur,
     Longevity is an important issue. Because of that, the 2200 is the way to go. I own one and am very happy with the results that I get in color. In fact, after I saw the first print out of it, I said "I'm through with doing color in the darkroom". It is that good and you can get everything your ever dreamed of out of your film using Photoshop. On the other hand, black and white is problematic. You cannot use the Epson profiles alone because the prints that you get are different in different light. For that, you need a RIP of some sort. Ones that use the standard inkset are an option that some people like. Others seem to think that a separate inkset for black and white is the way to go. Personally, I'm still trying to sort out which way to go. I'd prefer not to spend money if I can. Roy Harrington provides Quadtone RIP free of charge, but you have to use a separate set of inks. You also should have a densitometer to make curves. All in all, it seems like a lot of wo
rk. I don't really know. Others have a lot of experience. If you are comfortable with computers and technical stuff, maybe it's the way to go. However, dome people on this list believe that Image Print is the best way to go as it uses the original Epson Inks and it prevents ome inks from being used making the print more neutral. I'm seriously considering that approach. What I need to convince me which way to go are some prints that I can acually look at.
In time I will see some, but it is difficult where I live.

Sincerely,
Russ Martin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 8/22/03 1:01 PM, "Arthur Fink" <arthur@...> wrote:

> Have any of you been to the workshps that Cone Editions offers?  Should I
> go to one of these before investing in equipment (and, more importantly, in
> my time trying to get good results from that equipment)?  Or would I be
> better prepared if I've spent time tyring to get it right, knowing that I
> lack some knowledge and understanding.

I went to a Cone workshop in December 2001, taught by George Dewolfe.  About
half the time was George lecturing & demonstrating; the other half was each
of us working on an image that we'd brought with us (generally a negative
that Larry of Cone Ed. will scan on their drum scanner).  Each workstation
(mostly Macs, but there was at least one PC) had a little Epson 860 loaded
with Piezo inks, and you were expected to make several work prints as you
went along.  There was also an opportunity to have a large print done on a
large-format printer (a 7000, in the workshop I attended).

I found George's course fairly worthwhile.  If you know a lot about
Photoshop, you might find it a little less useful.  However, you do want to
have basic-to-intermediate experience with Photoshop so that you don't spend
too much time just learning that.  George does teach many of his own
techniques, some of which I still use.  Being able to use a *working* B&W
quad system is very valuable, as is seeing the other various technology that
goes along with it (drum scanner, large-format printers, IRIS printers,
spectrophotometers, etc.).

The best part, in my opinion, of going to the Cone workshops is being able
to be at the studio and see how they do things.  (I presume -- perhaps
wrongly -- that the workshops are still held in the little room off the back
of the main studio.)  I learned wonderful tricks on how to calibrate
monitors and *really* clean out a clog on a printer.  And, like most
workshops, getting to know the other participants is usually rewarding.

I don't know whether the workshops have evolved to integrate the new
Studioprint quadtone RIP, or the new ICC-profiling methods.  Nor do I know
whether the Piezo toned inksets are covered (these didn't exist when I took
the workshop).

What you almost certainly *won't* get is any exposure to alternate workflows
-- Imageprint, Inkjet Control/OPM, the various Photoshop curves -- nor other
inks like the MIS lines.  After all, the courses are taught by Cone, and I
doubt they'd cover the competitors.

Hope this helps.

-- 
John Labovitz
johnl@...
www.johnlabovitz.com

My personal choice after messing with Piezography and MIS Inks was to go with the 2200 and Imageprint.  I wanted to have a simple solution that just worked.  I get great results on Epson Enhanced Matte, a reasonably priced paper.  I can print both color and B&W on the same printer.  There are other good solutions out there and selection to me a matter of how much you want to mess with things.  I feel the simplest solution is the one I have, I just want to make good prints.

Regards,

David 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Arthur Fink 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 1:01 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Printer for Pizeography


  I'm trying to decide which printer to get for black and white printing -- 
  probably with Pizeogaphy, and definitely with matt paper & ink.

  Most advice I get sends to to the Epson 1280.

  Others say get the Epson 2200, and perhaps the ImagePrint RIP as well.

  And others aay go with Canon i9800.  (I believe the Pizeography support for 
  this printer is coming soon.)

  What do YOU say?

  - - -

  A few notes and other questions:

  If the 2200 with its regular ink set is fine, then I'd have the advantage 
  of not needing to dedicate one printer to B&W.  Or ... is that a false economy?

  I'm also looking at color printing, and trying to balance the brilliance of 
  a dye based ink on the 1280 or i9800 vs the pigment ink on the 2200 with 
  its greater longevity.  How significant are these differences?  Is there 
  THAT MUCH more brilliance, or more longevity?

  Right now all I've got is an Epson 1520, which would not be the printer of 
  choice for any of this.  So my choice will not be based on inertia, but on 
  what is truly best.

  Have any of you been to the workshps that Cone Editions offers?  Should I 
  go to one of these before investing in equipment (and, more importantly, in 
  my time trying to get good results from that equipment)?  Or would I be 
  better prepared if I've spent time tyring to get it right, knowing that I 
  lack some knowledge and understanding.

  Are any of you near Portland ME?

    A r t h u r   F i n k   P h o t o g r a p h y
    .................................................
    Ten New Island Avenue     · 207.766.5722
    Peaks Island, Maine 04108 · arthur@... 



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, mfaphoto@o... 
wrote:
> Arthur,
>      Longevity is an important issue. Because of that, the 2200 is 
the way to go. 

Please tell us how the Epson 2200 inkset is better than the MIS 
UltraTones longevity wise ? Have you done your own test and if so, 
what were the results.
Cheers,
Andre

On Saturday, August 23, 2003, at 01:20  AM, mfaphoto@... 
wrote:

> Roy Harrington provides Quadtone RIP free of charge, but you have to 
> use a separate set of inks.
No, you can use the standard OEM UC inks with the 2200 and QuadtoneRIP. 
  There are also 2200/UC ink QTR profiles available for several papers 
that are included with the download and there are more on my website.
>  You also should have a densitometer to make curves. All in all, it 
> seems like a lot of wo
> rk. I don't really know.
Not necessary if you use the profiles provided for the 2200.

Carl

On Saturday, August 23, 2003, at 01:20  AM, mfaphoto@... 
wrote:
"... Roy Harrington provides Quadtone RIP free of charge, but you have 
to use a separate set of inks...."

Not true...QuadTone RIP has two curves for the 2200 for use with Epson 
Ultrachrom Inks.  One is a warm tone and the other is a cool tone.  QT 
RIP allows them to be blended to achieve intermediate tones.  I am very 
happy with the results I am getting with the UC inks and Epson Enhanced 
Matte paper for BOTH B&W and color.

The added advantage is that I am not voiding my Epson warranty either.

David





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David M. dorn" 
> The added advantage is that I am not voiding my Epson warranty either.
> 
> David
> 

Using NON-OEM inks does NOT void your warranty..  EPSON can write that
in the literature all they want... HP lost that legal battle in a
well-publicized case some years back.. (as did the manufacturers of
copier machines even earlier)

They can LEGALLY only void the warranty if they cans show that the
inks in questionwere the particular cause..

Keith