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1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-08-28 by Paul Roark

Well, it works.

I have a modified Ultra Tone inkset that can do both sepia and cool toning
with the Epson driver.  The cool toner has also been doubled in strength so
that even the warmest RC paper shadows (like Pictorico) can be cooled down.

The inks are all easily available or easy to mix.  No clear base is used.

C = MIS 2200/7600 light K
PC = MIS UT Hex yellow (the lightest gray)
M = 58% MIS Light (Photo) Magenta &
    42% MIS Light (Photo) Cyan
PM = MIS UT Hex M
Y = MIS UT sepia toner

I have draft curves that print neutral/selenium, carbon (both toners turned
off -- until 75%, where they dive to the 100% spot to turn on the black),
and sepia that is 0.25 warm -- that's a true sepia.

The curves are very easy to make, because the Epson driver does the
cross-overs.  No more roller-coasters.  (The curves are so simple that I
suspect the sliders could be re-activated and would work, but I have not
tried this.)

Because the toner is stronger, the inkset can print ice-cold, for those who
like special effect.

On RC paper 1440 shows some roughness in the shadows on close inspection,
but at 2880, it smoothes out to the point I don't think anyone would be
concerned.  I may mix a denser PC ink to see if that helps the 1440 RC
roughness.  (I'm not particularly patient with the 2880 slowness.)

At any rate, I think the concept of a dual-toner inkset in a 1280/1290
works.  The one above is a first shot, with readily-available inks that
anyone can experiment with.

I may move on to some custom mixes to refine it, but I like the idea of
using off-the-shelf inks.  It opens up the system to more alternatives.  The
different RC-compatible inks (MIS v. Epson) have shown different
characteristics on various papers.  One is not clearly better than the
other, but their bronzing and other surface characteristics differ.  So, for
a particular paper, there may be a new way to optimize the inkset for the
particular paper.

Also, different people will like different tones.  With off-the-shelf
components to make the toner, people can mix different ratios of the PM & PC
to get the shadows tone they prefer.

Have fun.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-06 by D. Hill

Paul,

Do you have any examples online of the colors possible
with this inkset?

Don


--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> Well, it works.
> 
> I have a modified Ultra Tone inkset that can do both
> sepia and cool toning
> with the Epson driver.  The cool toner has also been
> doubled in strength so
> that even the warmest RC paper shadows (like
> Pictorico) can be cooled down.
> 
> The inks are all easily available or easy to mix. 
> No clear base is used.
> 
> C = MIS 2200/7600 light K
> PC = MIS UT Hex yellow (the lightest gray)
> M = 58% MIS Light (Photo) Magenta &
>     42% MIS Light (Photo) Cyan
> PM = MIS UT Hex M
> Y = MIS UT sepia toner
> 
> I have draft curves that print neutral/selenium,
> carbon (both toners turned
> off -- until 75%, where they dive to the 100% spot
> to turn on the black),
> and sepia that is 0.25 warm -- that's a true sepia.
> 
> The curves are very easy to make, because the Epson
> driver does the
> cross-overs.  No more roller-coasters.  (The curves
> are so simple that I
> suspect the sliders could be re-activated and would
> work, but I have not
> tried this.)
> 
> Because the toner is stronger, the inkset can print
> ice-cold, for those who
> like special effect.
> 
> On RC paper 1440 shows some roughness in the shadows
> on close inspection,
> but at 2880, it smoothes out to the point I don't
> think anyone would be
> concerned.  I may mix a denser PC ink to see if that
> helps the 1440 RC
> roughness.  (I'm not particularly patient with the
> 2880 slowness.)
> 
> At any rate, I think the concept of a dual-toner
> inkset in a 1280/1290
> works.  The one above is a first shot, with
> readily-available inks that
> anyone can experiment with.
> 
> I may move on to some custom mixes to refine it, but
> I like the idea of
> using off-the-shelf inks.  It opens up the system to
> more alternatives.  The
> different RC-compatible inks (MIS v. Epson) have
> shown different
> characteristics on various papers.  One is not
> clearly better than the
> other, but their bronzing and other surface
> characteristics differ.  So, for
> a particular paper, there may be a new way to
> optimize the inkset for the
> particular paper.
> 
> Also, different people will like different tones. 
> With off-the-shelf
> components to make the toner, people can mix
> different ratios of the PM & PC
> to get the shadows tone they prefer.
> 
> Have fun.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-06 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Paul Roark wrote:

>Well, it works.
>
>I have a modified Ultra Tone inkset that can do both sepia and cool toning
>with the Epson driver. 
>

YAY!!!

Now to lobby Monsieur Zeiss to OFFICIALLY add them to the MIS lineup...

A B&W UT set with widely variable tone...  whee!!!!

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-06 by Paul Roark

Don,

>Do you have any examples online of the colors possible
>with this inkset?

Good idea -- I'll see if we can get some samples and, perhaps, comparisons
to Piezo and the Septones that I just received from Martin.

Here is where I'm at with this new inkset:

I'm up to my "UT Dual v. 7" now, and I think I'm real close to -- if not
at -- the final mix.  The formula I previously gave is not the final
formula.

The inks are all simple mixtures of the existing UT inkset and the MIS 7600
inks and base (from which the UT inkset is derived).  As such, there are not
likely to be any unpleasant surprises regarding compatibility, separation,
etc.  This is really just a re-working of the existing MIS Ultra Tone
inkset.

The most important new characteristics of this inkset are that it can be
printed from a grayscale file, and only the Epson driver and it's sliders
are needed to control it.  Photoshop, Photoshop curves, plug-ins, RIPs, etc.
are not needed -- although they can give even more control.

When all sliders are in their "0" position and the Mode on "Automatic" (the
default settings for the 1280 driver, I believe), the print tone is equal to
PiezoTone Warm Neutral -- 0.03 units warm.  This is also very close to MIS
FS.  The grayscale ramp that is produced at this default setting is
outstanding.

With the sliders set to +12 magenta and -25 yellow, the print tone is almost
identical to the PiezoTone selenium (C=Y, & M is slightly elevated).

With the mode set to Vivid and the sliders set to +25 yellow and -15
magenta, the print is equal to the warmest UT ink -- about -0.10 warm.  The
new Septone system at 100% warm is 0.08 units warm -- i.e., not quite as
warm.  (With PS curves, full sepia is possible with the new UT inkset.)

The system seems to work best when the paper type is set to "Premium Glossy
Photo Paper" in the Epson driver when I'm using the default EAM/EEM test
paper or other matte papers.  With Epson Glossy Photo Paper, the Photo Paper
profile seems to work.  With other papers, differing paper types and slider
settings will have to be experimented with.

When the sliders are set to the neutral/selenium or the warmest positions,
the primary deviation from an ideal grayscale ramp is the 95% spot.  It is
0.04 units lighter than my ideal target.  However, each 1% difference in
input is separated by at least 0.01 density unit.  So, while there is a
minor deviation from ideal in the deep shadows, there are no flat spots.
(There may be slider settings that correct this.)

Aside from the above deviation from the ideal, the Epson driver shows a
visibly smoother ramp than the Piezo driver or the new Septone RIP.  (Thank
you Martin for sending the samples.  I'll get a fade test going ASAP.)

In the neutral range, the new UT Dual 7 shows no significant metamerism.  In
the very warm and sepia ranges, it has the same color tone changes we see
with the existing vm-s sepia tones or the new Septone warm prints.  In
tungsten light it is warmer -- more reddish or magenta.  In daylight it is
more of a light yellowish sepia.  In no case is there an unpleasant green
tone.  The tone changes are very appropriate to the light sources.

I don't know the extent to which normal paper profiling techniques and tools
will be able to further control this inkset.  I'm suspicious that those who
have the knowledge and equipment might be able to do some interesting
further refinement.  Perhaps this is the sort of approach Cone is taking.

There is more than enough coolness in the inkset to handle the warmest RC
shadows.  For these papers, however, I think the Photoshop curves or some
other profiling approach may be needed to pour in more cold toner where the
shadows go unduly warm.  (Epson Glossy Photo Paper appears to print fine
with just the Epson driver.  I have not done much experimentation with RC
papers yet.)

My real interest is to open the B&W digital printing field up to a broader
audience and more applications, and this approach does it.  It is so simple
that I think any beginner is going to be able to stick a pre-filled cart
into a 1280/90 and get excellent B&W prints from any image editing (or
other) program, with virtually no learning curve or additional up-front
expenses aside from the printer.  Yet, those of us who are comfortable with
curves, etc. will be able to have the usual control and print from full
sepia to icy cold.

I will recommend MIS fast-track the new inkset.  One person has already
stopped by and seen samples.  He's going to be on the phone to MIS ASAP to
order some ink, so they'll have to figure out some way to handle the calls
that will start next week.  (Hope they didn't have a vacation planned.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_____________________________________


--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> Well, it works.
>
> I have a modified Ultra Tone inkset that can do both
> sepia and cool toning
> with the Epson driver.  The cool toner has also been
> doubled in strength so
> that even the warmest RC paper shadows (like
> Pictorico) can be cooled down.
>
> The inks are all easily available or easy to mix.
> No clear base is used.
>
> C = MIS 2200/7600 light K
> PC = MIS UT Hex yellow (the lightest gray)
> M = 58% MIS Light (Photo) Magenta &
>     42% MIS Light (Photo) Cyan
> PM = MIS UT Hex M
> Y = MIS UT sepia toner
>
> I have draft curves that print neutral/selenium,
> carbon (both toners turned
> off -- until 75%, where they dive to the 100% spot
> to turn on the black),
> and sepia that is 0.25 warm -- that's a true sepia.
>
> The curves are very easy to make, because the Epson
> driver does the
> cross-overs.  No more roller-coasters.  (The curves
> are so simple that I
> suspect the sliders could be re-activated and would
> work, but I have not
> tried this.)
>
> Because the toner is stronger, the inkset can print
> ice-cold, for those who
> like special effect.
>
> On RC paper 1440 shows some roughness in the shadows
> on close inspection,
> but at 2880, it smoothes out to the point I don't
> think anyone would be
> concerned.  I may mix a denser PC ink to see if that
> helps the 1440 RC
> roughness.  (I'm not particularly patient with the
> 2880 slowness.)
>
> At any rate, I think the concept of a dual-toner
> inkset in a 1280/1290
> works.  The one above is a first shot, with
> readily-available inks that
> anyone can experiment with.
>
> I may move on to some custom mixes to refine it, but
> I like the idea of
> using off-the-shelf inks.  It opens up the system to
> more alternatives.  The
> different RC-compatible inks (MIS v. Epson) have
> shown different
> characteristics on various papers.  One is not
> clearly better than the
> other, but their bronzing and other surface
> characteristics differ.  So, for
> a particular paper, there may be a new way to
> optimize the inkset for the
> particular paper.
>
> Also, different people will like different tones.
> With off-the-shelf
> components to make the toner, people can mix
> different ratios of the PM & PC
> to get the shadows tone they prefer.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
>


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RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-07 by Thomas Fors

Hi Paul,

This is great news.  Thanks for all your hard work on it.

I have a 1280 sitting here that's been waiting since April for Cone to release ICC profiles for his PiezoTone inks, but I like the idea of your dual toner better.  

I'll certainly be lining up to try these inks from MIS as soon as they're available.

--Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Paul Roark wrote:

> I'm up to my "UT Dual v. 7" now, and I think I'm real close to -- if not
> at -- the final mix.  The formula I previously gave is not the final
> formula.
> 

> I will recommend MIS fast-track the new inkset.  One person has already
> stopped by and seen samples.  He's going to be on the phone to MIS ASAP to
> order some ink, so they'll have to figure out some way to handle the calls
> that will start next week.  (Hope they didn't have a vacation planned.)
>

RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-07 by Daniel Staver

Paul,

any chance we could have a look at the formula for the inkset? I'm
really curious to try it in my 2100 and see if it works equally well
there.

I tried replacing the LC position with UT-Y and the C position with LK
like you mentioned in the earlier formula you released. The result is
dotless highlights and a print that requires only very moderate
adjustments for perfect results.

I definitely think a dual-toner inkset entirely controllable with the
Epson driver is within reach for this printer too.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-07 by Paul Roark

Daniel,

>any chance we could have a look at the formula for the inkset?

Not yet.  I still want to try a few other variations and don't want too many
different formulas out there.  Also, to be frank, I haven't even discussed
the ink with MIS yet.  My continuously coming up with new formulas drives
them a bit crazy.  It's a lot of work and confusing to them to have too many
variations.

> I'm really curious to try it in my 2100 and see if it
>works equally well there.

That is clearly the next step.

>I tried replacing the LC position with UT-Y and the C position with LK
>like you mentioned in the earlier formula you released. The result is
>dotless highlights and a print that requires only very moderate
>adjustments for perfect results.

Figuring out the nature of the built-in cross-overs is part of the job.
I've also been curious to experiment with a slightly cooled light black.
I'm concerned a bit with the very warm nature of the existing light black
inks (both MIS and Epson).

>I definitely think a dual-toner inkset entirely controllable with the
>Epson driver is within reach for this printer too.

I agree.  It may not have many advantages over the 1280/90 except for speed,
but that, in itself, may persuade some to go with the newer printer.  On the
other hand, with a 7-ink printer the option of both warm and cool toners in
addition to a dual K (matte and photo) would be nice. I'm skeptical that the
Epson driver can manage that, however.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no




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unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
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RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-07 by Daniel Staver

> >any chance we could have a look at the formula for the inkset?
> Not yet.  I still want to try a few other variations and 
> don't want too many different formulas out there.  Also, to 
> be frank, I haven't even discussed the ink with MIS yet.  My 
> continuously coming up with new formulas drives them a bit 
> crazy.  It's a lot of work and confusing to them to have too 
> many variations.

Ok, I guess I'll have to be patient then :) But I don't think you would
have to involve MIS if all the inks can be mixed from existing inks? I
have both the Ultratone and MIS 7600 color inksets in bottles here, so I
think I could make all the mixtures myself.
 
> Figuring out the nature of the built-in cross-overs is part 
> of the job. I've also been curious to experiment with a 
> slightly cooled light black. I'm concerned a bit with the 
> very warm nature of the existing light black inks (both MIS 
> and Epson).

I did try a diluted Eboni in the LK position again today and the whole
curve cooled down significantly, but the tone of the curve was still
slightly uneven. In the 2100 the LK seems to have a much bigger impact
on the overall tone of the curve than the black position.

Even with the inkset I tried today I still think it will be much, much
easier to create custom curves. There's no need for weird crossovers
anymore, smaller adjustments to the toner curve seems to be enough. 

> I agree.  It may not have many advantages over the 1280/90 
> except for speed, but that, in itself, may persuade some to 
> go with the newer printer.

The big advantage is the ease of switching cartridges. You can go from
color to BW or the other way in minutes, and switching between different
BW inksets is also very easy.

> On the other hand, with a 7-ink 
> printer the option of both warm and cool toners in addition 
> to a dual K (matte and photo) would be nice. I'm skeptical 
> that the Epson driver can manage that, however.

I don't think that would work... But if I remember correctly Carl
Schofield is doing that already with QTR.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Re: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-07 by Clayton Jones

Hello Paul,

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest, it sounds
really good.

>I've also been curious to experiment with a slightly cooled light
>black.  I'm concerned a bit with the very warm nature of the 
>existing light black inks (both MIS and Epson).

How are these inks being cooled?  I've never seen anything about
that.  
Do the coolants seem to alter the fade/shift properties any?


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-08 by Paul Roark

Daniel,

>...
>... if all the inks can be mixed from existing inks?

They cannot be easily mixed from UT inks.  I've had to go to custom
dilutions that require the MIS UT/7600 clear base.  Have you been able to
get that "clear" (actually tea colored -- to be discrete) base from MIS?

>I did try a diluted Eboni in the LK position again today and the whole
>curve cooled down significantly, but the tone of the curve was still
>slightly uneven. In the 2100 the LK seems to have a much bigger impact
>on the overall tone of the curve than the black position.

Alex and I are both doing experiments to see if there is any base that will
dilute Eboni reliably.  It appears to precipitate in reaction to unknown
factors when diluted.

The existing clear base is not RC compatible -- of course, neither is Eboni.
However, getting an appropriate base for these new inksets is tricky.  It's
one key to MIS's UT and UC clone inksets, and I'm not sure they are going to
release it publicly.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-08 by Paul Roark

Clayton,

>>I've also been curious to experiment with a slightly cooled light
>>black.  I'm concerned a bit with the very warm nature of the
>>existing light black inks (both MIS and Epson).

>How are these inks being cooled?  I've never seen
>anything about that.

I use color pigments to tone the carbon black inks.  The light and photo
black inks make great base grays when diluted.  Then it's a matter of
finding a compatible color pig that can do the job best.  So far, the MIS
7600 pigs seem to be the best.  My tests with the Epson Archival pigs have
been very disappointing.  It's probably not that the pigments are inherently
less stable, but more likely that the MIS 7600 base is incompatible with the
Epson coated pigments.

>Do the coolants seem to alter the fade/shift properties any?

Yes.  That is one of the issues.  In fact, the FS-N is "non-warming" because
I added just a little fast-fading yellow and then balanced that with very
lightfast cyan & relatively lightfast magenta pigs.  It was what I called a
"counter-shift" approach to the problem.

Now we have so much better base black pigment, that the warming issue is
very different.  The carbon pigs do yellow a bit, but that yellowing is not
from a drop in cyan or magenta, but an actual increase in yellow
reflectance -- the density is actually increasing initially with light
exposure.

Some of the things I'm trying to do with the current inkset is keep one
"color" spot "pure carbon."  (It appears that the cyan position is best for
that.  I tried the magenta spot and, rather unexpectedly, the driver and
sliders reacted differently -- and with much less satisfying results.)  I
want that carbon ink to be pure so that I can print with RGB PS curves a
pure carbon image for maximum longevity.

The color pigs are getting very good, but they are still, as far as I can
tell, not as good as the "carbon" (or whatever the black pigs are made of).
Two years ago the yellow was the weakling.  Then that was improved
substantially.  The cyan has been the rock solid one in fade tests, but,
interestingly, Cone's tests may indicate Epson in the UC inkset has found a
super-stable magenta.  To be frank, one reason I like the "selenium" tone is
that the slightly raised magenta will help offset what I think will be a
gradual fading of that pigment (read green shift).

So, there is shifting that is going to happen.  Hopefully its so far down
the road that we don't have to worry much.  However, whether the inks would
be better if I used a counter-shift strategy with even the current
generation of pigs is an open question.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-08 by Clayton Jones

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the thorough reply.  The "counter-shift" is an interesting
approach, I'm real curious how this will unfold.

BTW, I have a PhotoRag version of the Septone/2200 tech print on a
large south facing picture window sill where it gets bright but not
direct sunlight all day (an awning over the window).  Half of each of
the images and the ramp are covered.  It's air conditioned so the RH
is relatively low (for Florida in summer, but I don't have an accurate
hygrometer).  A thermometer beside the print hovers around 80 F.
during the day.  It's been 10 days now (100 hrs of bright light?) and
so far no discernible change.  I'll post here if I see anything.  If I
remember correctly you're using a more controlled test environment, so
I'm real interested in your results with the things Martin sent.

BTW #2, I had an old test print (BO with MIS FS K )in the kitchen
earlier in the summer and some mango juice dripped on it and sat for a
couple of days.  It's dark sticky resinous stuff, and just to see what
would happen I ran some water on the area and rubbed it with my
fingers (including some fingernail scraping) to try to wash it off.  I
was surprised and pleased to find the print took a considerable amount
of water and rubbing without destroying the image.  I actually was
able to remove the gooey stuff and leave the image intact. The sap had
penetrated through the coating into the paper so the stain couldn't be
removed, but it's nice to know that the prints can withstand some
moisture and abrasion.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm







Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-08 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 2:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset


> Daniel,
>
> >...
> >... if all the inks can be mixed from existing inks?
>
> They cannot be easily mixed from UT inks.  I've had to go to
custom
> dilutions that require the MIS UT/7600 clear base.  Have you
been able to
> get that "clear" (actually tea colored -- to be discrete) base
from MIS?
>
> >I did try a diluted Eboni in the LK position again today and
the whole
> >curve cooled down significantly, but the tone of the curve was
still
> >slightly uneven. In the 2100 the LK seems to have a much
bigger impact
> >on the overall tone of the curve than the black position.
>
> Alex and I are both doing experiments to see if there is any
base that will
> dilute Eboni reliably.  It appears to precipitate in reaction
to unknown
> factors when diluted.
>
> The existing clear base is not RC compatible -- of course,
neither is Eboni.
> However, getting an appropriate base for these new inksets is
tricky.  It's
> one key to MIS's UT and UC clone inksets, and I'm not sure they
are going to
> release it publicly.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

The base of all the inks in the Ultratone set must be equal or am
I wrong in that assumption ? I thought that I could make the
Eboni more fluid by mixing in some of the next grey but if that
doesn't work I better reload that channel with photoblack.

It would be nice to get that MIS base if it was only to get the
Eboni at a level that it can be used in any printer.
To keep a higher load of pigment afloat the base has to be thick
in rest. It has to be fluid in motion if it ever has to get
through the nozzles.
Thixotropic behaviour. Glycerine has been mentioned as a
component in inkjet inks, it has that behaviour. But that's just
one of the components.

Ernst

RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-08 by Paul Roark

Ernst,


>>...
>> Alex and I are both doing experiments to see if
>>there is any base that will
>> dilute Eboni reliably.  It appears to precipitate
>>in reaction to unknown factors when diluted.
>>...

>The base of all the inks in the Ultratone set must be equal or am
>I wrong in that assumption?

The midtones and Photo black are all from the same set and seem to work well
together and with the MIS 7600 base.  I think it is a well-engineered set.

Eboni appears to be a different animal.  I'm not sure what base will work
with it.

> I thought that I could make the
>Eboni more fluid by mixing in some of the next grey but if that
>doesn't work I better reload that channel with photoblack.

I have not been able to tell what base will work.  Alex has found
precipitation with the standard MIS archival base (clear, like water, as
opposed to the light "tea color" of the 7600 base).

>It would be nice to get that MIS base if it was only to get the
>Eboni at a level that it can be used in any printer.

Indeed.  MIS had to dilute the color positions of the 7600 inkset a bit to
work reliably in many desktop printers.  These high-load inks (the midtone
UC and UC clones, as well as the UC Matte black and clones (Eboni), and
maybe even the Photo blacks) can be tricky, it appears.

>To keep a higher load of pigment afloat the base has to be thick
>in rest. It has to be fluid in motion if it ever has to get
>through the nozzles.
>Thixotropic behaviour. Glycerine has been mentioned as a
>component in inkjet inks, it has that behaviour. But that's just
>one of the components.

I don't know the chemistry of the 7600 base.  I doubt MIS even has access to
the formula.  I just trust (hope) that the chemical company that is behind
the base inks & base for the inkset has done it's homework well.  From what
I can see, it has.  I have found that whenever I use a component in a mix
that is from outside this engineered inkset system, I have problems.  So,
I've been limiting myself recently to the MIS 7600 inkset as inputs.  I keep
testing others, but they invariably fall short for one reason or another.

But, again, I think Eboni is a different animal -- not in the system.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] 1280 UT Dual-Toner inkset

2003-09-09 by Paul Roark

Don,

>Do you have any examples online of the colors possible
>with this inkset?

Some sample scans of the new Ultra Tone inkset I'm now working on are now
posted in the Files section of this forum
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>

in folder   > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Ultra Tone Inks 2.

I have PiezoTone and R9-Septone/Sundance test strips in the scan also for
comparison.

The version of the inkset is #7, which I refer to as UT2-Dual 7.  This
variable-tone inkset has both cool and sepia toners, is just for the
1280/90, and can be printed from a grayscale file in any application.  The
Epson driver can control the inkset -- via sliders -- from neutral/selenium
to carbon warm.  With Photoshop curves, the inkset can go from full sepia to
very cold.

So, while most of the scanned UT2-Dual 7 images were printed from grayscale
files with just the Epson driver controls, the full sepia does require
conversion to RGB and the application of a Photoshop curve.

I'm continuing to explore different mixes of this inkset, so people should
not expect MIS to start mixing it yet.  However, I don't expect the visual
results of the final to be much different than version 7 that is pictured
here.

Among the things I'm now pursuing is finding the best compromise between EAM
and cotton papers (PhotoRag and UltraSmooth).  I'm also reducing the sepia
toner strength to hold the total color pigments to a minimum, especially the
yellow. (In version 8 it's down to only 6% of the sepia toner, and there is
no yellow pigment anywhere else in the inkset.  So, when the
neutral/selenium tone is printed, with the yellow slider as far to the "off"
position as possible, the amount of yellow pigment is very small.  With
curves, of course, one can control the inkset enough to virtually eliminate
all color and print with just the pure carbon cyan-position inks or that
plus the minimum cool toner needed for a neutral or cold print.)

So, it's not quite ready for distribution yet, but I think I'm close to
something that will have wide appeal.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

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