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Lambda B&W printing

Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-18 by Alessandro Pardi

Hi list,
 
a few days ago I was told that an italian photographer, Mimmo Jodice, who was known for spending hours and hours in the darkroom and being extremely picky with his prints, has switched to digital (for prints only, he still uses negatives). His choice was the Lambda printer.
I seem to remember that Lambda prints for B&W hadn't a great reputation on the list, so I'm here to ask anyone who has a first-hand experience with this technology.
 
Thanks,
Alessandro


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-18 by Jo Brunenberg

Hi Allessandra,

The Lambda can be used to expose different types of photographic material like C-print (Fuji, Kodak), Ilfochrome Classic (Cibachrome) and Ilfochrome Flex.

With all of them I had very good results.
I scanned my BW negatives in 16 bit Greyscale. Converted to RGB and than converted to a custom profile I made from a test target printed on the Lambda.
I very much like the Ilfochrome. 
But if you do not like its super gloss and metallic-like tones this would not be your choice.
Also the Ilfochrome B&W images suffer from metamerism, so when the image appears neutal under daylight it will be a little brownish under tungsten light.

Best regards,

Jo Brunenberg
www.jobrunenberg.com


DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,Internet writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi list,
>
>a few days ago I was told that an italian photographer, Mimmo Jodice, who was known for spending hours and hours in the darkroom and being extremely picky with his prints, has switched to digital (for prints only, he still uses negatives). His choice was the Lambda printer.
>I seem to remember that Lambda prints for B&W hadn't a great reputation on the list, so I'm here to ask anyone who has a first-hand experience with this technology.
>
>Thanks,
>Alessandro
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>
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RE: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-18 by David R. Spielman

Alessandro,

I've used the LightJet 5000 and Chromira printers (very similar to the
Lambda) to print B&W images on the Fuji Ultrachrome paper (no relationship
to Epson Ultrachrome inks) with good success. The prints have a slightly
cool look, with good blacks (Dmax=2.0) and a glossy finish. There is also a
matte finish available for this paper, but I haven't tried it. Kodak also
has a new B&W photoprinter paper that I've used on the Lightjet. This
material is NOT a RA-4 color process, but instead is processed in
conventional B&W chemistry. The Kodak material is only available with a
matte finish and prints made with it have a slight warm look.

I do not foresee a day when these photoprinters (Lambda, Lightjet, Chromira,
etc..) will be making prints on silver/gelatin glossy fiber paper, but the
materials currently available do an adequate job. These current materials
are all RC papers, which is why many on this list may not like them. It
would seem that the "Holy Grail" in B&W printing is still the air dried,
glossy fiber silver/gelatin print.

Best Regards,


David R. Spielman
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Alessandro Pardi [mailto:alessandro.pardi@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:37 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing



  Hi list,

  a few days ago I was told that an italian photographer, Mimmo Jodice, who
was known for spending hours and hours in the darkroom and being extremely
picky with his prints, has switched to digital (for prints only, he still
uses negatives). His choice was the Lambda printer.
  I seem to remember that Lambda prints for B&W hadn't a great reputation on
the list, so I'm here to ask anyone who has a first-hand experience with
this technology.

  Thanks,
  Alessandro


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-18 by David R. Spielman

Jo,

Interesting observation about the metamerism of the Ilfochrome material.
I've never seen any metamerism using the Fuji Ultrachrome material. If fact,
I've never seen any kind of metamerism in any kind of photographic print
material, only in inkjet prints.

I wonder what is so different about the Ilfochrome material?

Best Regards,

David R. Spielman
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jo Brunenberg [mailto:jo.brunenberg@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:54 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing


  Hi Allessandra,

  The Lambda can be used to expose different types of photographic material
like C-print (Fuji, Kodak), Ilfochrome Classic (Cibachrome) and Ilfochrome
Flex.

  With all of them I had very good results.
  I scanned my BW negatives in 16 bit Greyscale. Converted to RGB and than
converted to a custom profile I made from a test target printed on the
Lambda.
  I very much like the Ilfochrome.
  But if you do not like its super gloss and metallic-like tones this would
not be your choice.
  Also the Ilfochrome B&W images suffer from metamerism, so when the image
appears neutal under daylight it will be a little brownish under tungsten
light.

  Best regards,

  Jo Brunenberg
  www.jobrunenberg.com


  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,Internet writes:
  > Hi list,
  >
  >a few days ago I was told that an italian photographer, Mimmo Jodice, who
was known for spending hours and hours in the darkroom and being extremely
picky with his prints, has switched to digital (for prints only, he still
uses negatives). His choice was the Lambda printer.
  >I seem to remember that Lambda prints for B&W hadn't a great reputation
on the list, so I'm here to ask anyone who has a first-hand experience with
this technology.
  >
  >Thanks,
  >Alessandro
  >
  >
  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
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7168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1706996/rand=664368696
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other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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hoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-19 by flyfishingusa2002

Why don't you stick to Epson materials? What is the attraction in Ilford or Fuji? Is their 
paper any better for Ultrachromes? I get amazing results with the Epson materials and 
profiles. IF you are displaying prints you should print with a matt paper and cover it. I 
have several prints pinned to my wall that were printed some while ago on Epson 
Premium Gloss that do not show any sign of metamerism.

Barry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Spielman" 
<david@s...> wrote:
> Jo,
> 
> Interesting observation about the metamerism of the Ilfochrome material.
> I've never seen any metamerism using the Fuji Ultrachrome material. If fact,
> I've never seen any kind of metamerism in any kind of photographic print
> material, only in inkjet prints.
> 
> I wonder what is so different about the Ilfochrome material?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> David R. Spielman
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jo Brunenberg [mailto:jo.brunenberg@r...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:54 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing
> 
> 
>   Hi Allessandra,
> 
>   The Lambda can be used to expose different types of photographic material
> like C-print (Fuji, Kodak), Ilfochrome Classic (Cibachrome) and Ilfochrome
> Flex.
> 
>   With all of them I had very good results.
>   I scanned my BW negatives in 16 bit Greyscale. Converted to RGB and than
> converted to a custom profile I made from a test target printed on the
> Lambda.
>   I very much like the Ilfochrome.
>   But if you do not like its super gloss and metallic-like tones this would
> not be your choice.
>   Also the Ilfochrome B&W images suffer from metamerism, so when the image
> appears neutal under daylight it will be a little brownish under tungsten
> light.
> 
>   Best regards,
> 
>   Jo Brunenberg
>   www.jobrunenberg.com
> 
> 
>   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,Internet writes:
>   > Hi list,
>   >
>   >a few days ago I was told that an italian photographer, Mimmo Jodice, who
> was known for spending hours and hours in the darkroom and being extremely
> picky with his prints, has switched to digital (for prints only, he still
> uses negatives). His choice was the Lambda printer.
>   >I seem to remember that Lambda prints for B&W hadn't a great reputation
> on the list, so I'm here to ask anyone who has a first-hand experience with
> this technology.
>   >
>   >Thanks,
>   >Alessandro
>   >
>   >
>   >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>   >ADVERTISEMENT
>   >[
> http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/
S=170501918
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start.cfm?code=30509
> &media=atkins ][
> http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets2003/
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> f ]click here
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l?M=194081.389
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 7168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1706996/rand=664368696
>   >
>   > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>   >
>   >[
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint ]http://groups.ya
> hoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
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> keep them short.
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>   >- Complete your Yahoo profile.
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> resources on the homepage.
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ]Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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RE: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-19 by D. Hill

David,

Its just a different grade of ilfochrome - the more
expensive version.  It isn't metamarism like we are
accustomed to in inkjets, but a metallic sheen below
the surface of the image.    


--- "David R. Spielman" <david@...> wrote:

> 
> I wonder what is so different about the Ilfochrome
> material?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> David R. Spielman


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RE: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-19 by David R. Spielman

Barry,

The Ilford and Fuji materials that Alessandro, Jo and I were discussing are
photographic materials used in a photoprinter that uses laser light to
expose light sensitive paper. This material is then developed in RA-4 color
print chemistery, like the kind your local one hour place uses to make
prints for your film camera.

One of the materials, the Fuji is called 'Ultrachrome' paper, but it is not
inkjet paper, it's photographic paper. Perhaps a poor choice of names on
Fuji's part for thier paper.

Best Regards,

David R. Spielman
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: flyfishingusa2002 [mailto:tflyfish@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:14 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing



  Why don't you stick to Epson materials? What is the attraction in Ilford
or Fuji? Is their
  paper any better for Ultrachromes? I get amazing results with the Epson
materials and
  profiles. IF you are displaying prints you should print with a matt paper
and cover it. I
  have several prints pinned to my wall that were printed some while ago on
Epson
  Premium Gloss that do not show any sign of metamerism.

  Barry

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Spielman"
  <david@s...> wrote:
  > Jo,
  >
  > Interesting observation about the metamerism of the Ilfochrome material.
  > I've never seen any metamerism using the Fuji Ultrachrome material. If
fact,
  > I've never seen any kind of metamerism in any kind of photographic print
  > material, only in inkjet prints.
  >
  > I wonder what is so different about the Ilfochrome material?
  >
  > Best Regards,
  >
  > David R. Spielman
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Jo Brunenberg [mailto:jo.brunenberg@r...]
  > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:54 PM
  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing
  >
  >
  >   Hi Allessandra,
  >
  >   The Lambda can be used to expose different types of photographic
material
  > like C-print (Fuji, Kodak), Ilfochrome Classic (Cibachrome) and
Ilfochrome
  > Flex.
  >
  >   With all of them I had very good results.
  >   I scanned my BW negatives in 16 bit Greyscale. Converted to RGB and
than
  > converted to a custom profile I made from a test target printed on the
  > Lambda.
  >   I very much like the Ilfochrome.
  >   But if you do not like its super gloss and metallic-like tones this
would
  > not be your choice.
  >   Also the Ilfochrome B&W images suffer from metamerism, so when the
image
  > appears neutal under daylight it will be a little brownish under
tungsten
  > light.
  >
  >   Best regards,
  >
  >   Jo Brunenberg
  >   www.jobrunenberg.com
  >
  >
  >   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,Internet writes:
  >   > Hi list,
  >   >
  >   >a few days ago I was told that an italian photographer, Mimmo Jodice,
who
  > was known for spending hours and hours in the darkroom and being
extremely
  > picky with his prints, has switched to digital (for prints only, he
still
  > uses negatives). His choice was the Lambda printer.
  >   >I seem to remember that Lambda prints for B&W hadn't a great
reputation
  > on the list, so I'm here to ask anyone who has a first-hand experience
with
  > this technology.
  >   >
  >   >Thanks,
  >   >Alessandro
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  >   >ADVERTISEMENT
  >   >[
  > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/
  S=170501918
  > 2:HM/A=1706996/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/
  start.cfm?code=30509
  > &media=atkins ][
  > http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets2003/
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and
  > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
  >   >
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint ]http://groups.ya
  > hoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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  > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
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  > page.
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  > keep them short.
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header.
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flames
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  > resources on the homepage.
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  > them short.
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  > resources on the homepage.
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  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-19 by Jo Brunenberg

Hello David,

The chemical process of Ilfochrome Clasic (Cibachrome) and Fuji Ultrachrome are completely different.
I guess that is the reason that both materials react differently in terms of metamerism.
With  B&W prints on Cibachrome I see that neutral greys tend to look brownish when I view them under tungsten light. 
It is not annoying because your eyes adept to the different lighting but there is a visible shift in color which I do not see in a traditional fiber based silverprint when viewd under different light..

Buy the way: The same experience I had with my older Cibachromes which were produced in an analogue way from transparencies.

Still I think the Cibachromes produced on Lambda are great and they are well accepted by galleries and collectors because of there known archival quality.


Best regards,

Jo Brunenberg
www.jobrunenberg.com


 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,Internet writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Jo,
>
>Interesting observation about the metamerism of the Ilfochrome material.
>I've never seen any metamerism using the Fuji Ultrachrome material. If fact,
>I've never seen any kind of metamerism in any kind of photographic print
>material, only in inkjet prints.
>
>I wonder what is so different about the Ilfochrome material?
>
>Best Regards,
>
>David R. Spielman

RE: [Digital BW] Lambda B&W printing

2003-09-22 by Alessandro Pardi

Thanks to all who replied, I see clearer now, and I also understand that, apart from the process, paper is a factor. Any experiences with the matte papers from Kodak and Fuji that were mentioned? I'd be interested in how they compare with the state-of-the-art of inkjet prints on EAM or Photorag.
 
Alessandro


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