Digital BW, The Print

Martin, 

In a message to Mark (I don't know his last name) you said:

"I tried Monaco was not happy with the results."

Could you elaborate on what results you got and why you weren't happy?

I do b&w and a bit of color and I am using the Monaco monitor
calibrator.  I'm not completely happy with my color prints and maybe
I'm chasing something that's not my fault.

Thanks,

Richard Cooke

* -----Original Message-----
* From: Richard Cooke [mailto:rcooke@redmtnengr.com] 
* Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:17 AM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] For Martin (somewhat OT?) Monaco didn't work
* 
* 
* Martin, 
* 
* In a message to Mark (I don't know his last name) you said:
* 
* "I tried Monaco was not happy with the results."
* 
* Could you elaborate on what results you got and why you weren't happy?
* 
* I do b&w and a bit of color and I am using the Monaco monitor 
* calibrator.  I'm not completely happy with my color prints 
* and maybe I'm chasing something that's not my fault.
* 
Richard,

This was 2+ years ago and I bought the Monaco basic package in an effort to
get my scanner, monitor and printer calibrated. It did not include a monitor
"spyder" or sensor. Since the monitor "calibration" was by eyeball it didn't
work out very well for me and the printer profiles really weren't usable.

I think for this type of application to provide a decent level of accuracy
you need an instrument(s) to measure the output. Scanners don't seem to be a
workable replacement for spectrophotometers. I wound up buying ColorVision's
OptiCal with the Spyder and ProfilerPro along with a Spectrocam
spectrophotometer to measure printer output. This all cost me about $2,500
which was actually pretty cheap as they were having a special package deal.
ColorVision now has a package that is about half that price but I have no
idea as to the quality of the "spectro-colorimeter" included. The bonus with
the ProfilerPro was that it could create profiles of grayscale ink sets
which the Monaco would not do at all at that time.

I don't recommend going with the ProfilerPro and Spectrocam unless you want
to make high quality color profiles yourself. You would probably be better
off having a few profiles made for you professionally with really high end
equipment at $100 to $200 each. OptiCal and the Spyder (or something similar
from another company, perhaps Monaco has something now) is in the $200 to
$300 range and worth the expense.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

Thanks Martin,

I am using their monitor calibrator and when I read your response I
was afraid that you'd found a problem with that.

Thanks,

Richard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley"
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> * -----Original Message-----
> * From: Richard Cooke [mailto:rcooke@r...] 
> * Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:17 AM
> * To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> * Subject: [Digital BW] For Martin (somewhat OT?) Monaco didn't work
> * 
> * 
> * Martin, 
> * 
> * In a message to Mark (I don't know his last name) you said:
> * 
> * "I tried Monaco was not happy with the results."
> * 
> * Could you elaborate on what results you got and why you weren't happy?
> * 
> * I do b&w and a bit of color and I am using the Monaco monitor 
> * calibrator.  I'm not completely happy with my color prints 
> * and maybe I'm chasing something that's not my fault.
> * 
> Richard,
> 
> This was 2+ years ago and I bought the Monaco basic package in an
effort to
> get my scanner, monitor and printer calibrated. It did not include a
monitor
> "spyder" or sensor. Since the monitor "calibration" was by eyeball
it didn't
> work out very well for me and the printer profiles really weren't
usable.
> 
> I think for this type of application to provide a decent level of
accuracy
> you need an instrument(s) to measure the output. Scanners don't seem
to be a
> workable replacement for spectrophotometers. I wound up buying
ColorVision's
> OptiCal with the Spyder and ProfilerPro along with a Spectrocam
> spectrophotometer to measure printer output. This all cost me about
$2,500
> which was actually pretty cheap as they were having a special
package deal.
> ColorVision now has a package that is about half that price but I
have no
> idea as to the quality of the "spectro-colorimeter" included. The
bonus with
> the ProfilerPro was that it could create profiles of grayscale ink sets
> which the Monaco would not do at all at that time.
> 
> I don't recommend going with the ProfilerPro and Spectrocam unless
you want
> to make high quality color profiles yourself. You would probably be
better
> off having a few profiles made for you professionally with really
high end
> equipment at $100 to $200 each. OptiCal and the Spyder (or something
similar
> from another company, perhaps Monaco has something now) is in the
$200 to

> $300 range and worth the expense.
> 
> Martin Wesley
> http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

On 19/9/03 3:52 am, "Martin Wesley"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> ProfilerPro was that it could create profiles of grayscale ink sets

Martin
I use ProfilerPro extensively to create icc profiles for my self and clients
and for teaching purposes. I never knew you could do greyscale work with it
- can you elaborate?

--
Regards
David Prakel

Centre of Britain PhotoWorkshops Partnership
www.photopartners.co.uk

* -----Original Message-----
* From: PhotoWorkshops Partnership [mailto:info@...] 
* Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 1:53 AM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] RE: For Martin (somewhat OT?) Monaco didn't work
* 
* 
* On 19/9/03 3:52 am, "Martin Wesley" 
* <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
* 
* > ProfilerPro was that it could create profiles of grayscale ink sets
* 
* Martin
* I use ProfilerPro extensively to create icc profiles for my 
* self and clients and for teaching purposes. I never knew you 
* could do greyscale work with it
* - can you elaborate?
* 
David,

Just print out the target file as you normally do but with the grayscale
inks. Read the target with your photospectrometer and send the data to the
program. ProfilerPro will produce a profile which will not be good enough
for use as a printing profile but will be very good for use in creating a
custom proofing profile that will render on screen not only the tonal ramp
of that ink but the hue of the ink and of the paper.

Worked very well for the MIS-VM inks. You may have to let ProfilerPro chew
on it awhile as it probably takes many more iterations in the software with
a neutral ink set compared to a CMYK ink set.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html