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Question regarding Epson 1280 and Quadtones... (newbee)

Question regarding Epson 1280 and Quadtones... (newbee)

2003-10-05 by altafb2000

hi all, 

Ok,so i'm gonna get the epson 1280, and am trying to find out the best
way to get good quality black and white - I'm gonna make 1280 a
dedicated black and white printer... so I figure I can try out the
Quadtones... But I'm a bit confused, on which quadtone to get, and
what the differences are... 

From the inksupply.com - I see that a couple of options are
availaible: one is variable mix quadtones, and the other full
spectrum, and then there is Sepia tone   I'm wondering what the
differences are? And how do I decide what to get? 

I'm also assuming that in the 1280 there are two catridges, one black,
and the other color? So, if i were to get these catridges - do i get
two of the same, put one in the black, and the other in color? 

Sorry, if this too new bee --- i tried to go through the faxes on
inksuplly.com but couldnt figure it out... well, hopefully someone can
answer this here... otherwise, I'll just call them next week... I'd
like to order the ink and printer at the same time... so I can begin
printing when the printer arrives... 


Full Spectrum Quadtone  Price  Variable Mix Quadtone  Price
Black Cartridge n/a n/a ARC-T007-QFS $22.08 ARC-T007-QVM $22.08
      Cone Driver Only   Epson Driver Only  
Cartridges Orig Quad w/DD Black Price Full Spectrum Neutral Price
Variable Mix 
Sepia Tone Price
Black Cartridge n/a n/a ARC-T007-FSN $22.08 ARC-T007-VMS $22.08
Color Cartridge n/a n/a ARC-T009-FSN $32.76 ARC-T009-VMS $32.76
      Cone Driver Only   Epson Driver Only

RE: [Digital BW] Question regarding Epson 1280 and Quadtones... (newbee)

2003-10-05 by Paul Roark

>Ok,so i'm gonna get the epson 1280, and am trying to find out the best
>way to get good quality black and white - ...
>But I'm a bit confused, on which quadtone to get, and
>what the differences are...

>From the inksupply.com - I see that a couple of options are
>availaible: one is variable mix quadtones,

MIS VM was the original variable-tone/mix "quad" (B&W) inkset.  What this
means is the tone/hue can be either warm, neutral or cold.  Photoshop curves
applied to an RGB version of your grayscale file control the inks and are
available free on the MIS website (inksupply.com), in the Files section
here, or from me or others.

The MIS Ultra Tone inkset is the new version of the MIS VM inkset.  It is
more lightfast, does not warm up significantly with light exposure (which
the older quads do), is RC paper compatible (when a "Photo" black ink is
used), and has a potential for warmer images than the MIS VM inkset.

> and the other full spectrum,

The FS inksets are Piezo-driver-compatible inksets that comes in either
medium-warm or neutral-cool versions.  It is a monotone with no variability
(aside from the slight differences one gets by using different papers).  The
FS-E series is the same ink but geared to the Epson driver and RGB curves
for controlling it.   The FS-N (neutral-cool) inkset was the first
non-warming quad, and was really made for the purpose of being the base gray
ink in the VM-S inkset.

> and then there is Sepia tone

The MIS VM-S is a variable-tone/mix inkset that has a range of neutral to
sepia.  As noted above, it uses the FS-N as the base ink and then has a
sepia toner.  Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment curves
being applied to an RGB version of your file.

>... how do I decide what to get?

What tone/hue do you like to print?  I personally like neutral for my
landscapes, and warm for reproducing old photos, "southwest" type images,
old barns, etc.  In mixed media competitions, I've found that the sepia tone
holds up better next to color paintings.  So, the variable-tone option has
appealed to me due to its flexibility.

On the warm end, the sepia is about twice are warm as the UT with the warm
curve.  However, for old photo reproductions, the purists who want the best
lightfastness and archival stability will want pure carbon.  The sepia toner
has yellow and magenta pigments in it that are not as good as carbon.  So
the UT with the warm curve is essentially pure carbon warm.  So, for a warm
tone that is the most stable, the UT inkset is much better than the VM-S
inkset.  (I've also made a pure carbon 1280 inkset aimed specifically at
genealogists and the like.  It requires no special "workflow" [curves,
etc.], and will print from any application.)

Do you like glossy/RC prints?  Frankly, I'm not that impressed with any of
the RC papers at this point, but there is no question that for the deepest
blacks they are hard to beat.  Only the Ultra Tone ("UT") inkset is RC
compatible among pigmented quads.  Dyes make better RC prints, but they fade
and often have other problems.

>I'm also assuming that in the 1280 there are two catridges, one black,
>and the other color? So, if i were to get these catridges - do i get
>two of the same, put one in the black, and the other in color?

The 1280 must always have a black cartridge and a "color" cartridge.  With
quads, the "color" cartridge contains the lighter gray and, with
variable-tone inksets, the toner inks.

Since I did a lot of the design work on these inksets, I may be a bit
biased. (I do not receive royalties -- just free MIS supplies.  I make these
inksets because I want them for my own use or for others who have a specific
need for an ink that does not exist yet.)

However, for what it is worth, I recommend the Ultra Tone inkset with the
Eboni black.  This inkset is 100% pigment, very lightfast, stable, and
flexible.  The black & gray inks are carbon-based, and the toner is pure
pigment -- no dyes in this inkset.  I have made curves for the UT inkset and
the 1280, which is what I'm now using.

Some like a darker black than the carbon-pigment Eboni.  However, the darker
blacks have dye in them that will cause the black to warm and fade.  I'd
stick with Eboni, which I find to be plenty black.

Enjoy your digital B&W journey.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....

2003-11-02 by altafb2000

Thank you Paul for this answer a few weeks back, it was very helpful,
and clear ... so now i have another newbee question :-) I have
Photoshop Elements - that does not appear to have "curves" 

you said

>Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment curves
> being applied to an RGB version of your file.

and the faq on the inksupply.com has a workflow that is for Adobe
Photoshop (not elements) that assumes that you have curves - 

Is there a plug in, that would allow the use of the curves that you've
developed for the epson printer for black and white prints? Or, is
there another option? 

thanx

Altaf 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> 
> >Ok,so i'm gonna get the epson 1280, and am trying to find out the best
> >way to get good quality black and white - ...
> >But I'm a bit confused, on which quadtone to get, and
> >what the differences are...
> 
> >From the inksupply.com - I see that a couple of options are
> >availaible: one is variable mix quadtones,
> 
> MIS VM was the original variable-tone/mix "quad" (B&W) inkset.  What
this
> means is the tone/hue can be either warm, neutral or cold. 
Photoshop curves
> applied to an RGB version of your grayscale file control the inks
and are
> available free on the MIS website (inksupply.com), in the Files section
> here, or from me or others.
> 
> The MIS Ultra Tone inkset is the new version of the MIS VM inkset. 
It is
> more lightfast, does not warm up significantly with light exposure
(which
> the older quads do), is RC paper compatible (when a "Photo" black ink is
> used), and has a potential for warmer images than the MIS VM inkset.
> 
> > and the other full spectrum,
> 
> The FS inksets are Piezo-driver-compatible inksets that comes in either
> medium-warm or neutral-cool versions.  It is a monotone with no
variability
> (aside from the slight differences one gets by using different
papers).  The
> FS-E series is the same ink but geared to the Epson driver and RGB
curves
> for controlling it.   The FS-N (neutral-cool) inkset was the first
> non-warming quad, and was really made for the purpose of being the
base gray
> ink in the VM-S inkset.
> 
> > and then there is Sepia tone
> 
> The MIS VM-S is a variable-tone/mix inkset that has a range of
neutral to
> sepia.  As noted above, it uses the FS-N as the base ink and then has a
> sepia toner.  Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment
curves
> being applied to an RGB version of your file.
> 
> >... how do I decide what to get?
> 
> What tone/hue do you like to print?  I personally like neutral for my
> landscapes, and warm for reproducing old photos, "southwest" type
images,
> old barns, etc.  In mixed media competitions, I've found that the
sepia tone
> holds up better next to color paintings.  So, the variable-tone
option has
> appealed to me due to its flexibility.
> 
> On the warm end, the sepia is about twice are warm as the UT with
the warm
> curve.  However, for old photo reproductions, the purists who want
the best
> lightfastness and archival stability will want pure carbon.  The
sepia toner
> has yellow and magenta pigments in it that are not as good as
carbon.  So
> the UT with the warm curve is essentially pure carbon warm.  So, for
a warm
> tone that is the most stable, the UT inkset is much better than the VM-S
> inkset.  (I've also made a pure carbon 1280 inkset aimed specifically at
> genealogists and the like.  It requires no special "workflow" [curves,
> etc.], and will print from any application.)
> 
> Do you like glossy/RC prints?  Frankly, I'm not that impressed with
any of
> the RC papers at this point, but there is no question that for the
deepest
> blacks they are hard to beat.  Only the Ultra Tone ("UT") inkset is RC
> compatible among pigmented quads.  Dyes make better RC prints, but
they fade
> and often have other problems.
> 
> >I'm also assuming that in the 1280 there are two catridges, one black,
> >and the other color? So, if i were to get these catridges - do i get
> >two of the same, put one in the black, and the other in color?
> 
> The 1280 must always have a black cartridge and a "color" cartridge.
 With
> quads, the "color" cartridge contains the lighter gray and, with
> variable-tone inksets, the toner inks.
> 
> Since I did a lot of the design work on these inksets, I may be a bit
> biased. (I do not receive royalties -- just free MIS supplies.  I
make these
> inksets because I want them for my own use or for others who have a
specific
> need for an ink that does not exist yet.)
> 
> However, for what it is worth, I recommend the Ultra Tone inkset
with the
> Eboni black.  This inkset is 100% pigment, very lightfast, stable, and
> flexible.  The black & gray inks are carbon-based, and the toner is pure
> pigment -- no dyes in this inkset.  I have made curves for the UT
inkset and
> the 1280, which is what I'm now using.
> 
> Some like a darker black than the carbon-pigment Eboni.  However,
the darker
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> blacks have dye in them that will cause the black to warm and fade.  I'd
> stick with Eboni, which I find to be plenty black.
> 
> Enjoy your digital B&W journey.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....

2003-11-02 by Paul Roark

Altaf,

As far as I know, the cheapest way to be able to use the Photoshop image
adjustment curves to control the UT and VM inksets (and others) is to buy
the $50 version of Picture Window 3.5.  There is a free trial download from
Digital Light and Color at http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/ .

It is the program I'm recommending for entry level retouching and printing.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
____________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: altafb2000 [mailto:altaf@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:14 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....



Thank you Paul for this answer a few weeks back, it was very helpful,
and clear ... so now i have another newbee question :-) I have
Photoshop Elements - that does not appear to have "curves"

you said

>Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment curves
> being applied to an RGB version of your file.

and the faq on the inksupply.com has a workflow that is for Adobe
Photoshop (not elements) that assumes that you have curves -

Is there a plug in, that would allow the use of the curves that you've
developed for the epson printer for black and white prints? Or, is
there another option?

thanx

Altaf

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
>
> >Ok,so i'm gonna get the epson 1280, and am trying to find out the best
> >way to get good quality black and white - ...
> >But I'm a bit confused, on which quadtone to get, and
> >what the differences are...
>
> >From the inksupply.com - I see that a couple of options are
> >availaible: one is variable mix quadtones,
>
> MIS VM was the original variable-tone/mix "quad" (B&W) inkset.  What
this
> means is the tone/hue can be either warm, neutral or cold.
Photoshop curves
> applied to an RGB version of your grayscale file control the inks
and are
> available free on the MIS website (inksupply.com), in the Files section
> here, or from me or others.
>
> The MIS Ultra Tone inkset is the new version of the MIS VM inkset.
It is
> more lightfast, does not warm up significantly with light exposure
(which
> the older quads do), is RC paper compatible (when a "Photo" black ink is
> used), and has a potential for warmer images than the MIS VM inkset.
>
> > and the other full spectrum,
>
> The FS inksets are Piezo-driver-compatible inksets that comes in either
> medium-warm or neutral-cool versions.  It is a monotone with no
variability
> (aside from the slight differences one gets by using different
papers).  The
> FS-E series is the same ink but geared to the Epson driver and RGB
curves
> for controlling it.   The FS-N (neutral-cool) inkset was the first
> non-warming quad, and was really made for the purpose of being the
base gray
> ink in the VM-S inkset.
>
> > and then there is Sepia tone
>
> The MIS VM-S is a variable-tone/mix inkset that has a range of
neutral to
> sepia.  As noted above, it uses the FS-N as the base ink and then has a
> sepia toner.  Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment
curves
> being applied to an RGB version of your file.
>
> >... how do I decide what to get?
>
> What tone/hue do you like to print?  I personally like neutral for my
> landscapes, and warm for reproducing old photos, "southwest" type
images,
> old barns, etc.  In mixed media competitions, I've found that the
sepia tone
> holds up better next to color paintings.  So, the variable-tone
option has
> appealed to me due to its flexibility.
>
> On the warm end, the sepia is about twice are warm as the UT with
the warm
> curve.  However, for old photo reproductions, the purists who want
the best
> lightfastness and archival stability will want pure carbon.  The
sepia toner
> has yellow and magenta pigments in it that are not as good as
carbon.  So
> the UT with the warm curve is essentially pure carbon warm.  So, for
a warm
> tone that is the most stable, the UT inkset is much better than the VM-S
> inkset.  (I've also made a pure carbon 1280 inkset aimed specifically at
> genealogists and the like.  It requires no special "workflow" [curves,
> etc.], and will print from any application.)
>
> Do you like glossy/RC prints?  Frankly, I'm not that impressed with
any of
> the RC papers at this point, but there is no question that for the
deepest
> blacks they are hard to beat.  Only the Ultra Tone ("UT") inkset is RC
> compatible among pigmented quads.  Dyes make better RC prints, but
they fade
> and often have other problems.
>
> >I'm also assuming that in the 1280 there are two catridges, one black,
> >and the other color? So, if i were to get these catridges - do i get
> >two of the same, put one in the black, and the other in color?
>
> The 1280 must always have a black cartridge and a "color" cartridge.
 With
> quads, the "color" cartridge contains the lighter gray and, with
> variable-tone inksets, the toner inks.
>
> Since I did a lot of the design work on these inksets, I may be a bit
> biased. (I do not receive royalties -- just free MIS supplies.  I
make these
> inksets because I want them for my own use or for others who have a
specific
> need for an ink that does not exist yet.)
>
> However, for what it is worth, I recommend the Ultra Tone inkset
with the
> Eboni black.  This inkset is 100% pigment, very lightfast, stable, and
> flexible.  The black & gray inks are carbon-based, and the toner is pure
> pigment -- no dyes in this inkset.  I have made curves for the UT
inkset and
> the 1280, which is what I'm now using.
>
> Some like a darker black than the carbon-pigment Eboni.  However,
the darker
> blacks have dye in them that will cause the black to warm and fade.  I'd
> stick with Eboni, which I find to be plenty black.
>
> Enjoy your digital B&W journey.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....

2003-11-03 by altafb2000

OK I downloaded the trial version... looks like it has a lot more than
elements in some respects ... but how would i load the image
adjustment curves on picture windows? - The curves are photoshop files
are they not? Or, are there Picture windows curve files around that i
might have missed? 

Also see 

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5347

this is Richard Lynch's "hidden elements" - and he has the curves as
layers ... that can be applied to images within photoshop elements... 

Altaf


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Altaf,
> 
> As far as I know, the cheapest way to be able to use the Photoshop image
> adjustment curves to control the UT and VM inksets (and others) is
to buy
> the $50 version of Picture Window 3.5.  There is a free trial
download from
> Digital Light and Color at http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/ .
> 
> It is the program I'm recommending for entry level retouching and
printing.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> ____________________________________
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: altafb2000 [mailto:altaf@p...]
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:14 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Paul for this answer a few weeks back, it was very helpful,
> and clear ... so now i have another newbee question :-) I have
> Photoshop Elements - that does not appear to have "curves"
> 
> you said
> 
> >Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment curves
> > being applied to an RGB version of your file.
> 
> and the faq on the inksupply.com has a workflow that is for Adobe
> Photoshop (not elements) that assumes that you have curves -
> 
> Is there a plug in, that would allow the use of the curves that you've
> developed for the epson printer for black and white prints? Or, is
> there another option?
> 
> thanx
> 
> Altaf
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Ok,so i'm gonna get the epson 1280, and am trying to find out the
best
> > >way to get good quality black and white - ...
> > >But I'm a bit confused, on which quadtone to get, and
> > >what the differences are...
> >
> > >From the inksupply.com - I see that a couple of options are
> > >availaible: one is variable mix quadtones,
> >
> > MIS VM was the original variable-tone/mix "quad" (B&W) inkset.  What
> this
> > means is the tone/hue can be either warm, neutral or cold.
> Photoshop curves
> > applied to an RGB version of your grayscale file control the inks
> and are
> > available free on the MIS website (inksupply.com), in the Files
section
> > here, or from me or others.
> >
> > The MIS Ultra Tone inkset is the new version of the MIS VM inkset.
> It is
> > more lightfast, does not warm up significantly with light exposure
> (which
> > the older quads do), is RC paper compatible (when a "Photo" black
ink is
> > used), and has a potential for warmer images than the MIS VM inkset.
> >
> > > and the other full spectrum,
> >
> > The FS inksets are Piezo-driver-compatible inksets that comes in
either
> > medium-warm or neutral-cool versions.  It is a monotone with no
> variability
> > (aside from the slight differences one gets by using different
> papers).  The
> > FS-E series is the same ink but geared to the Epson driver and RGB
> curves
> > for controlling it.   The FS-N (neutral-cool) inkset was the first
> > non-warming quad, and was really made for the purpose of being the
> base gray
> > ink in the VM-S inkset.
> >
> > > and then there is Sepia tone
> >
> > The MIS VM-S is a variable-tone/mix inkset that has a range of
> neutral to
> > sepia.  As noted above, it uses the FS-N as the base ink and then
has a
> > sepia toner.  Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment
> curves
> > being applied to an RGB version of your file.
> >
> > >... how do I decide what to get?
> >
> > What tone/hue do you like to print?  I personally like neutral for my
> > landscapes, and warm for reproducing old photos, "southwest" type
> images,
> > old barns, etc.  In mixed media competitions, I've found that the
> sepia tone
> > holds up better next to color paintings.  So, the variable-tone
> option has
> > appealed to me due to its flexibility.
> >
> > On the warm end, the sepia is about twice are warm as the UT with
> the warm
> > curve.  However, for old photo reproductions, the purists who want
> the best
> > lightfastness and archival stability will want pure carbon.  The
> sepia toner
> > has yellow and magenta pigments in it that are not as good as
> carbon.  So
> > the UT with the warm curve is essentially pure carbon warm.  So, for
> a warm
> > tone that is the most stable, the UT inkset is much better than
the VM-S
> > inkset.  (I've also made a pure carbon 1280 inkset aimed
specifically at
> > genealogists and the like.  It requires no special "workflow" [curves,
> > etc.], and will print from any application.)
> >
> > Do you like glossy/RC prints?  Frankly, I'm not that impressed with
> any of
> > the RC papers at this point, but there is no question that for the
> deepest
> > blacks they are hard to beat.  Only the Ultra Tone ("UT") inkset is RC
> > compatible among pigmented quads.  Dyes make better RC prints, but
> they fade
> > and often have other problems.
> >
> > >I'm also assuming that in the 1280 there are two catridges, one
black,
> > >and the other color? So, if i were to get these catridges - do i get
> > >two of the same, put one in the black, and the other in color?
> >
> > The 1280 must always have a black cartridge and a "color" cartridge.
>  With
> > quads, the "color" cartridge contains the lighter gray and, with
> > variable-tone inksets, the toner inks.
> >
> > Since I did a lot of the design work on these inksets, I may be a bit
> > biased. (I do not receive royalties -- just free MIS supplies.  I
> make these
> > inksets because I want them for my own use or for others who have a
> specific
> > need for an ink that does not exist yet.)
> >
> > However, for what it is worth, I recommend the Ultra Tone inkset
> with the
> > Eboni black.  This inkset is 100% pigment, very lightfast, stable, and
> > flexible.  The black & gray inks are carbon-based, and the toner
is pure
> > pigment -- no dyes in this inkset.  I have made curves for the UT
> inkset and
> > the 1280, which is what I'm now using.
> >
> > Some like a darker black than the carbon-pigment Eboni.  However,
> the darker
> > blacks have dye in them that will cause the black to warm and
fade.  I'd
> > stick with Eboni, which I find to be plenty black.
> >
> > Enjoy your digital B&W journey.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....

2003-11-03 by altafb2000

never mind, i figured it out - had to convert it to color first, then
load the curves - :-)

thanx

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "altafb2000"
<altaf@p...> wrote:
> 
> OK I downloaded the trial version... looks like it has a lot more than
> elements in some respects ... but how would i load the image
> adjustment curves on picture windows? - The curves are photoshop files
> are they not? Or, are there Picture windows curve files around that i
> might have missed? 
> 
> Also see 
> 
> http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5347
> 
> this is Richard Lynch's "hidden elements" - and he has the curves as
> layers ... that can be applied to images within photoshop elements... 
> 
> Altaf
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Altaf,
> > 
> > As far as I know, the cheapest way to be able to use the Photoshop
image
> > adjustment curves to control the UT and VM inksets (and others) is
> to buy
> > the $50 version of Picture Window 3.5.  There is a free trial
> download from
> > Digital Light and Color at http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/ .
> > 
> > It is the program I'm recommending for entry level retouching and
> printing.
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > ____________________________________
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: altafb2000 [mailto:altaf@p...]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:14 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you Paul for this answer a few weeks back, it was very helpful,
> > and clear ... so now i have another newbee question :-) I have
> > Photoshop Elements - that does not appear to have "curves"
> > 
> > you said
> > 
> > >Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment curves
> > > being applied to an RGB version of your file.
> > 
> > and the faq on the inksupply.com has a workflow that is for Adobe
> > Photoshop (not elements) that assumes that you have curves -
> > 
> > Is there a plug in, that would allow the use of the curves that you've
> > developed for the epson printer for black and white prints? Or, is
> > there another option?
> > 
> > thanx
> > 
> > Altaf
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >Ok,so i'm gonna get the epson 1280, and am trying to find out the
> best
> > > >way to get good quality black and white - ...
> > > >But I'm a bit confused, on which quadtone to get, and
> > > >what the differences are...
> > >
> > > >From the inksupply.com - I see that a couple of options are
> > > >availaible: one is variable mix quadtones,
> > >
> > > MIS VM was the original variable-tone/mix "quad" (B&W) inkset.  What
> > this
> > > means is the tone/hue can be either warm, neutral or cold.
> > Photoshop curves
> > > applied to an RGB version of your grayscale file control the inks
> > and are
> > > available free on the MIS website (inksupply.com), in the Files
> section
> > > here, or from me or others.
> > >
> > > The MIS Ultra Tone inkset is the new version of the MIS VM inkset.
> > It is
> > > more lightfast, does not warm up significantly with light exposure
> > (which
> > > the older quads do), is RC paper compatible (when a "Photo" black
> ink is
> > > used), and has a potential for warmer images than the MIS VM inkset.
> > >
> > > > and the other full spectrum,
> > >
> > > The FS inksets are Piezo-driver-compatible inksets that comes in
> either
> > > medium-warm or neutral-cool versions.  It is a monotone with no
> > variability
> > > (aside from the slight differences one gets by using different
> > papers).  The
> > > FS-E series is the same ink but geared to the Epson driver and RGB
> > curves
> > > for controlling it.   The FS-N (neutral-cool) inkset was the first
> > > non-warming quad, and was really made for the purpose of being the
> > base gray
> > > ink in the VM-S inkset.
> > >
> > > > and then there is Sepia tone
> > >
> > > The MIS VM-S is a variable-tone/mix inkset that has a range of
> > neutral to
> > > sepia.  As noted above, it uses the FS-N as the base ink and then
> has a
> > > sepia toner.  Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment
> > curves
> > > being applied to an RGB version of your file.
> > >
> > > >... how do I decide what to get?
> > >
> > > What tone/hue do you like to print?  I personally like neutral
for my
> > > landscapes, and warm for reproducing old photos, "southwest" type
> > images,
> > > old barns, etc.  In mixed media competitions, I've found that the
> > sepia tone
> > > holds up better next to color paintings.  So, the variable-tone
> > option has
> > > appealed to me due to its flexibility.
> > >
> > > On the warm end, the sepia is about twice are warm as the UT with
> > the warm
> > > curve.  However, for old photo reproductions, the purists who want
> > the best
> > > lightfastness and archival stability will want pure carbon.  The
> > sepia toner
> > > has yellow and magenta pigments in it that are not as good as
> > carbon.  So
> > > the UT with the warm curve is essentially pure carbon warm.  So, for
> > a warm
> > > tone that is the most stable, the UT inkset is much better than
> the VM-S
> > > inkset.  (I've also made a pure carbon 1280 inkset aimed
> specifically at
> > > genealogists and the like.  It requires no special "workflow"
[curves,
> > > etc.], and will print from any application.)
> > >
> > > Do you like glossy/RC prints?  Frankly, I'm not that impressed with
> > any of
> > > the RC papers at this point, but there is no question that for the
> > deepest
> > > blacks they are hard to beat.  Only the Ultra Tone ("UT") inkset
is RC
> > > compatible among pigmented quads.  Dyes make better RC prints, but
> > they fade
> > > and often have other problems.
> > >
> > > >I'm also assuming that in the 1280 there are two catridges, one
> black,
> > > >and the other color? So, if i were to get these catridges - do
i get
> > > >two of the same, put one in the black, and the other in color?
> > >
> > > The 1280 must always have a black cartridge and a "color" cartridge.
> >  With
> > > quads, the "color" cartridge contains the lighter gray and, with
> > > variable-tone inksets, the toner inks.
> > >
> > > Since I did a lot of the design work on these inksets, I may be
a bit
> > > biased. (I do not receive royalties -- just free MIS supplies.  I
> > make these
> > > inksets because I want them for my own use or for others who have a
> > specific
> > > need for an ink that does not exist yet.)
> > >
> > > However, for what it is worth, I recommend the Ultra Tone inkset
> > with the
> > > Eboni black.  This inkset is 100% pigment, very lightfast,
stable, and
> > > flexible.  The black & gray inks are carbon-based, and the toner
> is pure
> > > pigment -- no dyes in this inkset.  I have made curves for the UT
> > inkset and
> > > the 1280, which is what I'm now using.
> > >
> > > Some like a darker black than the carbon-pigment Eboni.  However,
> > the darker
> > > blacks have dye in them that will cause the black to warm and
> fade.  I'd
> > > stick with Eboni, which I find to be plenty black.
> > >
> > > Enjoy your digital B&W journey.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....

2003-11-03 by Paul Roark

PW can load PS curves.

At the top, hit Transformation, Color, Curves.  You get a curves box.  Use
the top "OPT" button to load the curves.  The file type includes PS curves.
(For some reason the lower-right OPT button does not include PS curves as an
option.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_______________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: altafb2000 [mailto:altaf@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:22 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....



OK I downloaded the trial version... looks like it has a lot more than
elements in some respects ... but how would i load the image
adjustment curves on picture windows? - The curves are photoshop files
are they not? Or, are there Picture windows curve files around that i
might have missed?

Also see

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5347

this is Richard Lynch's "hidden elements" - and he has the curves as
layers ... that can be applied to images within photoshop elements...

Altaf


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Altaf,
>
> As far as I know, the cheapest way to be able to use the Photoshop image
> adjustment curves to control the UT and VM inksets (and others) is
to buy
> the $50 version of Picture Window 3.5.  There is a free trial
download from
> Digital Light and Color at http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/ .
>
> It is the program I'm recommending for entry level retouching and
printing.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> ____________________________________
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: altafb2000 [mailto:altaf@p...]
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:14 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....
>
>
>
> Thank you Paul for this answer a few weeks back, it was very helpful,
> and clear ... so now i have another newbee question :-) I have
> Photoshop Elements - that does not appear to have "curves"
>
> you said
>
> >Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment curves
> > being applied to an RGB version of your file.
>
> and the faq on the inksupply.com has a workflow that is for Adobe
> Photoshop (not elements) that assumes that you have curves -
>
> Is there a plug in, that would allow the use of the curves that you've
> developed for the epson printer for black and white prints? Or, is
> there another option?
>
> thanx
>
> Altaf
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Ok,so i'm gonna get the epson 1280, and am trying to find out the
best
> > >way to get good quality black and white - ...
> > >But I'm a bit confused, on which quadtone to get, and
> > >what the differences are...
> >
> > >From the inksupply.com - I see that a couple of options are
> > >availaible: one is variable mix quadtones,
> >
> > MIS VM was the original variable-tone/mix "quad" (B&W) inkset.  What
> this
> > means is the tone/hue can be either warm, neutral or cold.
> Photoshop curves
> > applied to an RGB version of your grayscale file control the inks
> and are
> > available free on the MIS website (inksupply.com), in the Files
section
> > here, or from me or others.
> >
> > The MIS Ultra Tone inkset is the new version of the MIS VM inkset.
> It is
> > more lightfast, does not warm up significantly with light exposure
> (which
> > the older quads do), is RC paper compatible (when a "Photo" black
ink is
> > used), and has a potential for warmer images than the MIS VM inkset.
> >
> > > and the other full spectrum,
> >
> > The FS inksets are Piezo-driver-compatible inksets that comes in
either
> > medium-warm or neutral-cool versions.  It is a monotone with no
> variability
> > (aside from the slight differences one gets by using different
> papers).  The
> > FS-E series is the same ink but geared to the Epson driver and RGB
> curves
> > for controlling it.   The FS-N (neutral-cool) inkset was the first
> > non-warming quad, and was really made for the purpose of being the
> base gray
> > ink in the VM-S inkset.
> >
> > > and then there is Sepia tone
> >
> > The MIS VM-S is a variable-tone/mix inkset that has a range of
> neutral to
> > sepia.  As noted above, it uses the FS-N as the base ink and then
has a
> > sepia toner.  Again, it is controlled by Photoshop image adjustment
> curves
> > being applied to an RGB version of your file.
> >
> > >... how do I decide what to get?
> >
> > What tone/hue do you like to print?  I personally like neutral for my
> > landscapes, and warm for reproducing old photos, "southwest" type
> images,
> > old barns, etc.  In mixed media competitions, I've found that the
> sepia tone
> > holds up better next to color paintings.  So, the variable-tone
> option has
> > appealed to me due to its flexibility.
> >
> > On the warm end, the sepia is about twice are warm as the UT with
> the warm
> > curve.  However, for old photo reproductions, the purists who want
> the best
> > lightfastness and archival stability will want pure carbon.  The
> sepia toner
> > has yellow and magenta pigments in it that are not as good as
> carbon.  So
> > the UT with the warm curve is essentially pure carbon warm.  So, for
> a warm
> > tone that is the most stable, the UT inkset is much better than
the VM-S
> > inkset.  (I've also made a pure carbon 1280 inkset aimed
specifically at
> > genealogists and the like.  It requires no special "workflow" [curves,
> > etc.], and will print from any application.)
> >
> > Do you like glossy/RC prints?  Frankly, I'm not that impressed with
> any of
> > the RC papers at this point, but there is no question that for the
> deepest
> > blacks they are hard to beat.  Only the Ultra Tone ("UT") inkset is RC
> > compatible among pigmented quads.  Dyes make better RC prints, but
> they fade
> > and often have other problems.
> >
> > >I'm also assuming that in the 1280 there are two catridges, one
black,
> > >and the other color? So, if i were to get these catridges - do i get
> > >two of the same, put one in the black, and the other in color?
> >
> > The 1280 must always have a black cartridge and a "color" cartridge.
>  With
> > quads, the "color" cartridge contains the lighter gray and, with
> > variable-tone inksets, the toner inks.
> >
> > Since I did a lot of the design work on these inksets, I may be a bit
> > biased. (I do not receive royalties -- just free MIS supplies.  I
> make these
> > inksets because I want them for my own use or for others who have a
> specific
> > need for an ink that does not exist yet.)
> >
> > However, for what it is worth, I recommend the Ultra Tone inkset
> with the
> > Eboni black.  This inkset is 100% pigment, very lightfast, stable, and
> > flexible.  The black & gray inks are carbon-based, and the toner
is pure
> > pigment -- no dyes in this inkset.  I have made curves for the UT
> inkset and
> > the 1280, which is what I'm now using.
> >
> > Some like a darker black than the carbon-pigment Eboni.  However,
> the darker
> > blacks have dye in them that will cause the black to warm and
fade.  I'd
> > stick with Eboni, which I find to be plenty black.
> >
> > Enjoy your digital B&W journey.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Digital BW] Re: Epson 1280 and Quadtones....

2003-11-10 by altafb2000

hi again, picture windows is a pretty nifty program - is there 
something similar availaible for Macintosh? - that would allow the 
use of these curves without having to get the full photoshop? 

thanx

Altaf

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> PW can load PS curves.
> 
> At the top, hit Transformation, Color, Curves.  You get a curves 
box.  Use
> the top "OPT" button to load the curves.  The file type includes PS 
curves.
> (For some reason the lower-right OPT button does not include PS 
curves as an
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> option.)
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> _______________________________________
> 
>

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