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2003-10-12 by kenschuster
Alan - What paper(s) did you use for your test? _____________________________________________ Help end spam and telemarketing... never respond to it, even to "unsubscribe."
----- Original Message ----- From: A. Huntley To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 1:34 PM Subject: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 ...snip... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-10-12 by A. Huntley
Ken, EEM and Photorag. I found the Photorag to show slightly more color saturation; about equivalent to the same print on EEM using Epson driver, standard Epson supplied profile for EEM, and PS doing color management. Today, I've been playing around with the tint control for B&W printing. I also printed Paul Roark's grayscale ramp that includes the 90-100% squares in 1% steps. Though I could not see any difference in the small squares, I could clearly make out a difference between the 95% and 100% blocks under the continuous ramp area. It could be that the black demo lines through the smaller squares was fooling my eye. No matter. I was satisfied with what I saw in the separation between 95 and 100. After playing around with IP, yesterday, and for about 1/2 day today another aspect of using a RIP that I wasn't expecting to like so much is the ability to do other things while the printer is running. Also, the printer starts running almost immediately after hitting Print. Man...this thing spools fast! Anyway, so far I like what I've seen. Could the interface be better? In a word, yes. But, I don't find it so horrible as to be totally confusing nor unusable. Alan Huntley ----- Original Message ----- From: "kenschuster" <ken.schuster@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > Alan - What paper(s) did you use for your test? > > _____________________________________________ > Help end spam and telemarketing... never respond to it, even to "unsubscribe." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: A. Huntley > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 1:34 PM > Subject: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > ...snip... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2003-10-13 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net
Richard, Sorry to hear you're having problems with the IP demo. I installed the demo under WinXP without reading anything and everything worked fine from the get go...I know this doesn't help, but there must be something really simple causing your situation. I know...it's ALWAYS something simple, you just have to find it! Anyway, FWIW, I get the same "machine ID" error in the message area of spool_face; and, I spent nearly the whole weekend printing and playing around with IP. I think, maybe, this error has something to do with the fact that a dongle is not present. Of course, this may be totally off base, but I don't have any problem printing. Good luck, Alan Huntley
> > From: Richard Sintchak <richcontaxg@...> > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon AM 02:08:12 EDT > To: "A. Huntley" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > > Well, I downloaded the demo onto my Win XP system, installed it > carefully following all the direction but cannot seem to get it to > print. In the spooler I get an error message: "couldn't get machine > identification" and the spooler sits at 0% while my 2200 has a green > light blinking and the red paper light solid. I read the entire > manual and went to the FAQ section on troubleshooting. Nothing seems > to help as I tried most everything they recommend regarding proper > naming/selection of the printer when installing and also the choice of > local connection (I use USB). Any help from anyone? > > -- > Best regards, > Richard mailto:richard@... > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2003-10-13 by kenschuster
I got the installer to launch (WinXP Pro), but quits with "Installation Cancelled" window, before it's finished. ?? (Took just short of six hours to download with my crappy connection out here in the boonies, too!) _____________________________________________ Help end spam and telemarketing... never respond to it, even to "unsubscribe."
----- Original Message ----- From: J. Gilbert Plantinga To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 I can't get the installer to launch. Powerbook G4/800, OS X 10.2.8 ...snip... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-10-13 by Richard Sintchak
Monday, October 13, 2003, 7:19:45 AM, you wrote: AHcn> Richard, AHcn> Sorry to hear you're having problems with the IP demo. I AHcn> installed the demo under WinXP without reading anything and AHcn> everything worked fine from the get go...I know this doesn't AHcn> help, but there must be something really simple causing your AHcn> situation. I know...it's ALWAYS something simple, you just have AHcn> to find it! AHcn> Anyway, FWIW, I get the same "machine ID" error in the AHcn> message area of spool_face; and, I spent nearly the whole AHcn> weekend printing and playing around with IP. I think, maybe, AHcn> this error has something to do with the fact that a dongle is AHcn> not present. Of course, this may be totally off base, but I AHcn> don't have any problem printing. AHcn> Good luck, AHcn> Alan Huntley Alan, Thanks for the reply. I too think it must be something simple. I suspect it's my "local" assignment. It defaults on installation to LPT1, yet I use USB, so following the instructions I first tried to do it as it tells you for Win2000 (as XP is not mentioned) and put in USB001. This got the print job to go through the spool (at least messages were there and the % went up to 100%, and even the green light started blinking on my 2200 (which supposedly means a print is on the way) but in the end nothing. I tried too, as suggested in the manual and areas of the FAQ, to put the name of my 2200 as it already is in the printers and faxes area of XP. But it added _ between the words and made a new driver. So I re-named my 2200 and re-installed with the name all one word. That's where I sit now. But now IP sends the job to the IP spooler but it sits at 0% with an error message that says "printer not ready (status = (0x709)". I may try to call someone at Colorbyte and see if they want to provide tech support to someone who really wants to buy IP but needs to see it work first. Thanks again. -- Best regards, Richard mailto:richard@...
2003-10-13 by TigerShark
I haven't tried IP yet, but when you install make sure you are logged in as administrator, with full access. TigerShark
-----Original Message----- From: kenschuster [mailto:ken.schuster@...] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 10:23 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 I got the installer to launch (WinXP Pro), but quits with "Installation Cancelled" window, before it's finished. ?? (Took just short of six hours to download with my crappy connection out here in the boonies, too!)
2003-10-13 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net
Richard, I'm not at home on my XP machine so not sure if I'll get this sequence correct, but... Go into the Control Panel, Printers, and right-click on your 2200, then, select Properties. Click the "Port" tab and find the checked box which will show the USB port Windoze has assigned to your printer (yeah, even though this is a virtual port!). On my machine it's USB003. This port id is what has to be entered into the Local box for IP. As for the time delay you seem to be having between clicking print and the printer supposedly starting to print, something is strange here. Dunno what size files your sending, but I was sending 20-30MB files and the printer started printing within secs of clicking the Print button. I doubt that ColorByte would provide any support to someone looking at an eval. From what I've read they're not really big on support even if you've bought the software! If you downloaded the eval from Calumet (which you probably did because I don't know of any other download available), I would try them. I dealt with Rick Dean, there, and he was very helpful. Actually, I believe it was my conversations with Rick that got the eval link on the website in the first place. Good luck, Alan Huntley
> > From: Richard Sintchak <richcontaxg@...> > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon AM 11:05:19 EDT > To: "Alan.Huntley@..." <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re[3]: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > Alan, > > Thanks for the reply. I too think it must be something simple. I > suspect it's my "local" assignment. It defaults on installation to > LPT1, yet I use USB, so following the instructions I first tried to do > it as it tells you for Win2000 (as XP is not mentioned) and put in > USB001. This got the print job to go through the spool (at least > messages were there and the % went up to 100%, and even the green > light started blinking on my 2200 (which supposedly means a print is > on the way) but in the end nothing. I tried too, as suggested in the > manual and areas of the FAQ, to put the name of my 2200 as it already > is in the printers and faxes area of XP. But it added _ between the > words and made a new driver. So I re-named my 2200 and re-installed > with the name all one word. That's where I sit now. But now IP sends > the job to the IP spooler but it sits at 0% with an error message that > says "printer not ready (status = (0x709)". I may try to call someone > at Colorbyte and see if they want to provide tech support to someone > who really wants to buy IP but needs to see it work first. > > Thanks again. > > -- > Best regards, > Richard mailto:richard@... > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2003-10-13 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net
Steve, On the PC running the IP 5.6 eval, I really didn't find the IP color prints to be any better than the Epson driver prints using, as you said, Epson profiles and proper color mgmt techniques. But, the IP color prints were different, as follows: 1. Ever so slightly less warmth and saturation. Easily remedied with an adjustment layer if an exact match to the Epson print is what's desired. 2. Slightly less contrast which helped the shadow areas. 3. White and near white areas (such as in clouds) printed with more separation and just seemed brighter (glow?). 4. The rendering of blue sky was more pleasing to my eye when compared to the Epson driver print. Grayscale, however, is a different matter. Using a "gray" profile with tint 50,50 produces, to my eye, a dead neutral print. Using the tint picker set to 100,100 produces a very nice warmer rendering though not as warm as, say, Paul's warmer curves for the UT inkset. I haven't had a chance to compare the same print with the closet UT print because when I fired up the 1160, yesterday, the grays were totally clogged! I damped the parking pad with Fantasik and will try, again, tonight. So far, for me it seems that grayscale printing is where IP really shines. But, shines enough to shell out $400-$500? We'll see...I'm still playing. Alan Huntley
> > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon PM 01:42:50 EDT > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > Thanks. I got there in the end. Another web page that does not work properly with > Safari. (I got access to the profiles when I used IE.) FYI I am using a G4 and had no > problems with the install. All works ok - ignore IPManage. However, it is very > difficult to evaluate the prints due to the demo watermark which covers EVERY inch of > the page. At the moment I have printed just one colour A3 print and will next print a > B&W image. So far I am seriously wondering whether the colour prints are ANY better > than using the Epson driver with a decent ICC profile for the media/printer > combination and proper colour mgt.... > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gilbert Plantinga" > <jgp@g...> wrote: > > You have to download them separately: > > > > http://www.colorbytesoftware.com/downloads.htm > > > > I wish that was my only problem :-) > > > > Gilbert > > > > On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Steve Kale wrote: > > > > > If I launch IP anyway I don't get any colour profiles for specific > > > printer/mediaa > > > combinations..... > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2003-10-13 by Tim Atherton
> the UT inkset. I haven't had a chance to compare the same print > with the closet UT print because when I fired up the 1160, > yesterday, the grays were totally clogged! I damped the parking > pad with Fantasik and will try, again, tonight. try this little puppy for cleaning stubborn clogs - it offers various head cleaning options a super duper power clean, as well as options to clean either just the black or the colour heads. (as well as several other things - especially counter resets etc) http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
2003-10-13 by Tim Atherton
I just posted this in another thread, but thought I might as well post it directly with its own subject. This seems like a great little free utility for busting stubborn clogs - it offers various head cleaning options a super duper power clean, as well as options to clean either just the black or the colour heads. (as well as several other things - especially counter resets etc) http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml tim
2003-10-13 by J. Gilbert Plantinga
Nice, but Windoze only :-( g.
On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Tim Atherton wrote: > I just posted this in another thread, but thought I might as well post > it > directly with its own subject. > > This seems like a great little free utility for busting stubborn clogs > - it > offers various head cleaning options a super duper power clean, as > well as > options to clean > either just the black or the colour heads. (as well as several other > things - especially counter resets etc) > > http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml > > > tim
2003-10-13 by Steve Kale
Thanks for the comments. I agree that the IP colour print I just did is ever so slightly "brighter" and "less saturated" (sky tones do indeed appear a more natural blue vs perhaps a slight tourquoise tint). I am comparing the IP print using the daylight Hahnemuhle Photorag profile for 2880dpi against an identical print using the Epson driver and a profile for Hahnemuhle Photorag from http://lenscraft.com/profiles/bullock/2200/index.html which has been designed for 1440x720 HQ (this print has also been sprayed with 3 coats of Lyson print spray). The most annoying thing is the watermark which is over the entire print making it impossible for a decent comparison - I understand the need for a watermark but this is complete overkill!! I am now printing a B&W image (given that this is the focus of this forum) and will compare it with the same image printed using Quadtone RIP using Carl's 2200 profiles 50:50 cool/warm. Regards Steve (PS the colour image I was printing is of the Utah desert with a detailed foreground with brown tones and a blue sky speckled with white clouds - the horizon is low at about 1/4 of the height of the page. It was Fuji Provia 100 35mm film scanned on an Imacon 848 at 6300ppi. Not a bad image to highlight the points you noted.) --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote: > Steve, > > On the PC running the IP 5.6 eval, I really didn't find the IP color prints to be any better than the Epson driver prints using, as you said, Epson profiles and proper color mgmt techniques. But, the IP color prints were different, as follows: > > 1. Ever so slightly less warmth and saturation. Easily remedied with an adjustment layer if an exact match to the Epson print is what's desired. > > 2. Slightly less contrast which helped the shadow areas. > > 3. White and near white areas (such as in clouds) printed with more separation and just seemed brighter (glow?). > > 4. The rendering of blue sky was more pleasing to my eye when compared to the Epson driver print. > > Grayscale, however, is a different matter. Using a "gray" profile with tint 50,50 produces, to my eye, a dead neutral print. Using the tint picker set to 100,100 produces a very nice warmer rendering though not as warm as, say, Paul's warmer curves for the UT inkset. I haven't had a chance to compare the same print with the closet UT print because when I fired up the 1160, yesterday, the grays were totally clogged! I damped the parking pad with Fantasik and will try, again, tonight. > > So far, for me it seems that grayscale printing is where IP really shines. But, shines enough to shell out $400-$500? We'll see...I'm still playing. > > Alan Huntley > > > > > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> > > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon PM 01:42:50 EDT > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > > > Thanks. I got there in the end. Another web page that does not work properly with > > Safari. (I got access to the profiles when I used IE.) FYI I am using a G4 and had no > > problems with the install. All works ok - ignore IPManage. However, it is very > > difficult to evaluate the prints due to the demo watermark which covers EVERY inch of > > the page. At the moment I have printed just one colour A3 print and will next print a > > B&W image. So far I am seriously wondering whether the colour prints are ANY better > > than using the Epson driver with a decent ICC profile for the media/printer > > combination and proper colour mgt.... > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gilbert Plantinga" > > <jgp@g...> wrote: > > > You have to download them separately: > > > > > > http://www.colorbytesoftware.com/downloads.htm > > > > > > I wish that was my only problem :-) > > > > > > Gilbert > > > > > > On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Steve Kale wrote: > > > > > > > If I launch IP anyway I don't get any colour profiles for specific > > > > printer/mediaa > > > > combinations..... > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > >
2003-10-13 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net
Steve, I agree with your disdain of the watermark. The size of the letters makes it difficult to make accurate judgements when comparing prints. Wait 'till you print B&W...the letters are solid black which REALLY plays with your eyes when comparing shadow values. I would be very interested to hear your comments regarding IP's grayscale capability when you feel ready to post a few opinions. Alan Huntley
> > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon PM 04:01:33 EDT > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > Thanks for the comments. I agree that the IP colour print I just did is ever so slightly > "brighter" and "less saturated" (sky tones do indeed appear a more natural blue vs > perhaps a slight tourquoise tint). I am comparing the IP print using the daylight > Hahnemuhle Photorag profile for 2880dpi against an identical print using the Epson > driver and a profile for Hahnemuhle Photorag from > > http://lenscraft.com/profiles/bullock/2200/index.html > > which has been designed for 1440x720 HQ (this print has also been sprayed with 3 > coats of Lyson print spray). The most annoying thing is the watermark which is over > the entire print making it impossible for a decent comparison - I understand the > need for a watermark but this is complete overkill!! > > I am now printing a B&W image (given that this is the focus of this forum) and will > compare it with the same image printed using Quadtone RIP using Carl's 2200 > profiles 50:50 cool/warm. > > Regards > > Steve > > (PS the colour image I was printing is of the Utah desert with a detailed foreground > with brown tones and a blue sky speckled with white clouds - the horizon is low at > about 1/4 of the height of the page. It was Fuji Provia 100 35mm film scanned on an > Imacon 848 at 6300ppi. Not a bad image to highlight the points you noted.)
2003-10-13 by Steve Kale
Very tough call on the B&W to my eye. Again it is a bit frustrating as the watermark for B&W has, again to my eye, a slight purple tint to it and it is so dominant across a page. In the couple of prints I have done thus far, IP prints seem more saturated in the darkest parts of the image (without a noticeable loss of detail across the image...) and so the QTR versions appear a little "washed out" by comparison. I would be really interested in what others (Carl?) think as my testing here is by no means scientific. For completeness, I have been printing to Hahnemuhle Photorag using the ep2200mkb_grayPhRag308_2880 profile in IP and comparing it with QTR at 1440x720HQ. (I am a bit worried that printing at 2880dpi is saturating the page too much...?) Some other initial comments: I find the IP user-interface a little "cheap and clunky". The look is more OS9 rather than OS-X. If you have a landscape print you have to look at the thing by twisting your neck - the image rotates rather than the page layout. (Am I missing something here?) Setting Embedded to Prompt in Color Management produces a result that is nothing short of annoying. The preview image is of very low quality. I don't think they have bothered to get their paper sizes right, eg, unless I am mistaken, A3 is actually set up for A3+ dimensions. All liveable with I guess but not what you would expect for a large pile of crisp, albeit falling-in-value, greenbacks.... --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote: > Steve, > > I agree with your disdain of the watermark. The size of the letters makes it difficult to make accurate judgements when comparing prints. Wait 'till you print B&W...the letters are solid black which REALLY plays with your eyes when comparing shadow values. > > I would be very interested to hear your comments regarding IP's grayscale capability when you feel ready to post a few opinions. > > Alan Huntley > > > > > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> > > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon PM 04:01:33 EDT > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > > > Thanks for the comments. I agree that the IP colour print I just did is ever so slightly > > "brighter" and "less saturated" (sky tones do indeed appear a more natural blue vs > > perhaps a slight tourquoise tint). I am comparing the IP print using the daylight > > Hahnemuhle Photorag profile for 2880dpi against an identical print using the Epson > > driver and a profile for Hahnemuhle Photorag from > > > > http://lenscraft.com/profiles/bullock/2200/index.html > > > > which has been designed for 1440x720 HQ (this print has also been sprayed with 3 > > coats of Lyson print spray). The most annoying thing is the watermark which is over > > the entire print making it impossible for a decent comparison - I understand the > > need for a watermark but this is complete overkill!! > > > > I am now printing a B&W image (given that this is the focus of this forum) and will > > compare it with the same image printed using Quadtone RIP using Carl's 2200 > > profiles 50:50 cool/warm. > > > > Regards > > > > Steve > > > > (PS the colour image I was printing is of the Utah desert with a detailed foreground > > with brown tones and a blue sky speckled with white clouds - the horizon is low at > > about 1/4 of the height of the page. It was Fuji Provia 100 35mm film scanned on an > > Imacon 848 at 6300ppi. Not a bad image to highlight the points you noted.)
2003-10-13 by Steve Kale
The blue sky thing is really bugging me now though...... --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote: > Steve, > > I agree with your disdain of the watermark. The size of the letters makes it difficult to make accurate judgements when comparing prints. Wait 'till you print B&W...the letters are solid black which REALLY plays with your eyes when comparing shadow values. > > I would be very interested to hear your comments regarding IP's grayscale capability when you feel ready to post a few opinions. > > Alan Huntley > > > > > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> > > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon PM 04:01:33 EDT > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > > > Thanks for the comments. I agree that the IP colour print I just did is ever so slightly > > "brighter" and "less saturated" (sky tones do indeed appear a more natural blue vs > > perhaps a slight tourquoise tint). I am comparing the IP print using the daylight > > Hahnemuhle Photorag profile for 2880dpi against an identical print using the Epson > > driver and a profile for Hahnemuhle Photorag from > > > > http://lenscraft.com/profiles/bullock/2200/index.html > > > > which has been designed for 1440x720 HQ (this print has also been sprayed with 3 > > coats of Lyson print spray). The most annoying thing is the watermark which is over > > the entire print making it impossible for a decent comparison - I understand the > > need for a watermark but this is complete overkill!! > > > > I am now printing a B&W image (given that this is the focus of this forum) and will > > compare it with the same image printed using Quadtone RIP using Carl's 2200 > > profiles 50:50 cool/warm. > > > > Regards > > > > Steve > > > > (PS the colour image I was printing is of the Utah desert with a detailed foreground > > with brown tones and a blue sky speckled with white clouds - the horizon is low at > > about 1/4 of the height of the page. It was Fuji Provia 100 35mm film scanned on an > > Imacon 848 at 6300ppi. Not a bad image to highlight the points you noted.)
2003-10-13 by Steve Kale
Also to print another image you have to quit and reopen ImagePrint....I don't seem to be able to close the current window and open a new one or to open the next image in a new window.... --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Very tough call on the B&W to my eye. Again it is a bit frustrating as the watermark > for B&W has, again to my eye, a slight purple tint to it and it is so dominant across a > page. In the couple of prints I have done thus far, IP prints seem more saturated in > the darkest parts of the image (without a noticeable loss of detail across the image...) > and so the QTR versions appear a little "washed out" by comparison. I would be really > interested in what others (Carl?) think as my testing here is by no means scientific. > For completeness, I have been printing to Hahnemuhle Photorag using the > ep2200mkb_grayPhRag308_2880 profile in IP and comparing it with QTR at > 1440x720HQ. (I am a bit worried that printing at 2880dpi is saturating the page too > much...?) > > Some other initial comments: I find the IP user-interface a little "cheap and clunky". > The look is more OS9 rather than OS-X. If you have a landscape print you have to > look at the thing by twisting your neck - the image rotates rather than the page > layout. (Am I missing something here?) Setting Embedded to Prompt in Color > Management produces a result that is nothing short of annoying. The preview image > is of very low quality. I don't think they have bothered to get their paper sizes right, > eg, unless I am mistaken, A3 is actually set up for A3+ dimensions. All liveable with I > guess but not what you would expect for a large pile of crisp, albeit falling-in-value, > greenbacks.... > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote: > > Steve, > > > > I agree with your disdain of the watermark. The size of the letters makes it difficult > to make accurate judgements when comparing prints. Wait 'till you print B&W...the > letters are solid black which REALLY plays with your eyes when comparing shadow > values. > > > > I would be very interested to hear your comments regarding IP's grayscale > capability when you feel ready to post a few opinions. > > > > Alan Huntley > > > > > > > > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> > > > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon PM 04:01:33 EDT > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > > > > > Thanks for the comments. I agree that the IP colour print I just did is ever so > slightly > > > "brighter" and "less saturated" (sky tones do indeed appear a more natural blue > vs > > > perhaps a slight tourquoise tint). I am comparing the IP print using the daylight > > > Hahnemuhle Photorag profile for 2880dpi against an identical print using the > Epson > > > driver and a profile for Hahnemuhle Photorag from > > > > > > http://lenscraft.com/profiles/bullock/2200/index.html > > > > > > which has been designed for 1440x720 HQ (this print has also been sprayed with > 3 > > > coats of Lyson print spray). The most annoying thing is the watermark which is > over > > > the entire print making it impossible for a decent comparison - I understand the > > > need for a watermark but this is complete overkill!! > > > > > > I am now printing a B&W image (given that this is the focus of this forum) and > will > > > compare it with the same image printed using Quadtone RIP using Carl's 2200 > > > profiles 50:50 cool/warm. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > (PS the colour image I was printing is of the Utah desert with a detailed > foreground > > > with brown tones and a blue sky speckled with white clouds - the horizon is low > at > > > about 1/4 of the height of the page. It was Fuji Provia 100 35mm film scanned > on an > > > Imacon 848 at 6300ppi. Not a bad image to highlight the points you noted.)
2003-10-13 by Tom OConnell
Richard- I think XP looks about the same as W2K. Go setting, printers, right click on 2200, click properties, click ports...scroll to 2200 and drag the usb area widers so you can see what port it really is using (may or may not be usb001). That is the port to enter in IP. cheers, Tom O'Connell
2003-10-14 by A. Huntley
Steve, If available, I would suggest using the 1440 profiles from IP for comparing to QTR at 1440...seems like to is more apples-to-apples, yes? I'm on a PC, but, I agree, the user interface rates Grade C, at best; workable, but it could be much better! Response to your initial comments in para2: 1. You're not missing anything regarding landscape layout. They seem to have a "LetterLand" for 8.5x11, but all other sizes seem to require that you work in portrait mode. I haven't found this to be a real problem, for me, because the image is in a finished state when I drop it onto IP. IP, at this point, is simply the vehicle to print. 2. Agreed on the Embedded set to Prompt in Color Mgt. It's a real pain. If it knows what profile has been embedded--which it does otherwise no prompt--then, why couldn't the software simply compare the embedded profile to the RGB profile as set up on the Bitmap tab, and bypass the prompt if the same. I decided that since I set RGB (Bitmap tab) to Adobe (1998) and, therefore, should be getting the same color mgt as in PS I set this prompt to: Ignore. To ensure that the IP work area was showing me the same image as PS, I ran both side-by-side with the same color image open and measured several points (actually, 3x3 avg) using the eyedropper. In all cases, the Red/Green/Blue values were identical. 3. Preview image...double-click the image in the work area and you should get a high-res preview. Haven't actually tried this myself, but it's in the manual. 4. Paper sizes...A3 is definitely not Epson (or anybody else's that I know of) A3 size. I set up a User Defined paper type for 11.7x16.5. Have you noticed that Letter is not, according to the rulers, 8.5x11 in the layout area? But, I set a User Defined paper size to 8.5x11 and it appears the same as the pre-defined one. None of these are insurmountable problems, but for $400-$500 (nearly the price of PS!) it seems like it should be a whole lot better. If decided, today, that if I do buy IP it will be primarily for these two reasons: 1. I could run one printer for both color and B&W, and not have all the maintenance issues (like my 1160 is totally clogged at the moment!) from printers that sit just a little to long between uses, and 2. Access to the many, many paper profiles available. I find it somewhat of a pain when I want to try a different paper that I'll be compromising image quality because the X workflow was designed with EEM (for example) and really works best with that paper. Sure...others will work, but... Have you checked out all the profiles available on ColorByte's website? Considering that a custom made printer profile will run anywhere from $100-$250 it doesn't take long to convince myself that the cost of the software ain't that bad! ColorByte's profiles probably aren't as good as the best custom profiles, but they're certainly in the running. I gotta believe that Epson spent quite a bit of effort and $ on the color profiles supplied with the 2200, and the appropriate IP profile matches Epson's almost exactly. I can't really say that Epson's are better...just different. Just my .02 cents, again...OK...maybe .04.... ;>) Alan Huntley
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > Very tough call on the B&W to my eye. Again it is a bit frustrating as the watermark > for B&W has, again to my eye, a slight purple tint to it and it is so dominant across a > page. In the couple of prints I have done thus far, IP prints seem more saturated in > the darkest parts of the image (without a noticeable loss of detail across the image...) > and so the QTR versions appear a little "washed out" by comparison. I would be really > interested in what others (Carl?) think as my testing here is by no means scientific. > For completeness, I have been printing to Hahnemuhle Photorag using the > ep2200mkb_grayPhRag308_2880 profile in IP and comparing it with QTR at > 1440x720HQ. (I am a bit worried that printing at 2880dpi is saturating the page too > much...?) > > Some other initial comments: I find the IP user-interface a little "cheap and clunky". > The look is more OS9 rather than OS-X. If you have a landscape print you have to > look at the thing by twisting your neck - the image rotates rather than the page > layout. (Am I missing something here?) Setting Embedded to Prompt in Color > Management produces a result that is nothing short of annoying. The preview image > is of very low quality. I don't think they have bothered to get their paper sizes right, > eg, unless I am mistaken, A3 is actually set up for A3+ dimensions. All liveable with I > guess but not what you would expect for a large pile of crisp, albeit falling-in-value, > greenbacks....
2003-10-14 by A. Huntley
Steve, If you have only one image in the layout area, try clicking the scissors and "Yes" to discard. Then, drag-n-drop a new image. Hope this helps. Alan Huntley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > Also to print another image you have to quit and reopen ImagePrint....I don't seem to be > able to close the current window and open a new one or to open the next image in a new > window.... > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> > wrote: > > Very tough call on the B&W to my eye. Again it is a bit frustrating as the watermark > > for B&W has, again to my eye, a slight purple tint to it and it is so dominant across a > > page. In the couple of prints I have done thus far, IP prints seem more saturated in > > the darkest parts of the image (without a noticeable loss of detail across the image...) > > and so the QTR versions appear a little "washed out" by comparison. I would be really > > interested in what others (Carl?) think as my testing here is by no means scientific. > > For completeness, I have been printing to Hahnemuhle Photorag using the > > ep2200mkb_grayPhRag308_2880 profile in IP and comparing it with QTR at > > 1440x720HQ. (I am a bit worried that printing at 2880dpi is saturating the page too > > much...?) > > > > Some other initial comments: I find the IP user-interface a little "cheap and clunky". > > The look is more OS9 rather than OS-X. If you have a landscape print you have to > > look at the thing by twisting your neck - the image rotates rather than the page > > layout. (Am I missing something here?) Setting Embedded to Prompt in Color > > Management produces a result that is nothing short of annoying. The preview image > > is of very low quality. I don't think they have bothered to get their paper sizes right, > > eg, unless I am mistaken, A3 is actually set up for A3+ dimensions. All liveable with I > > guess but not what you would expect for a large pile of crisp, albeit falling-in-value, > > greenbacks.... > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote: > > > Steve, > > > > > > I agree with your disdain of the watermark. The size of the letters makes it difficult > > to make accurate judgements when comparing prints. Wait 'till you print B&W...the > > letters are solid black which REALLY plays with your eyes when comparing shadow > > values. > > > > > > I would be very interested to hear your comments regarding IP's grayscale > > capability when you feel ready to post a few opinions. > > > > > > Alan Huntley > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> > > > > Date: 2003/10/13 Mon PM 04:01:33 EDT > > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 > > > > > > > > Thanks for the comments. I agree that the IP colour print I just did is ever so > > slightly > > > > "brighter" and "less saturated" (sky tones do indeed appear a more natural blue > > vs > > > > perhaps a slight tourquoise tint). I am comparing the IP print using the daylight > > > > Hahnemuhle Photorag profile for 2880dpi against an identical print using the > > Epson > > > > driver and a profile for Hahnemuhle Photorag from > > > > > > > > http://lenscraft.com/profiles/bullock/2200/index.html > > > > > > > > which has been designed for 1440x720 HQ (this print has also been sprayed with > > 3 > > > > coats of Lyson print spray). The most annoying thing is the watermark which is > > over > > > > the entire print making it impossible for a decent comparison - I understand the > > > > need for a watermark but this is complete overkill!! > > > > > > > > I am now printing a B&W image (given that this is the focus of this forum) and > > will > > > > compare it with the same image printed using Quadtone RIP using Carl's 2200 > > > > profiles 50:50 cool/warm. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > (PS the colour image I was printing is of the Utah desert with a detailed > > foreground > > > > with brown tones and a blue sky speckled with white clouds - the horizon is low > > at > > > > about 1/4 of the height of the page. It was Fuji Provia 100 35mm film scanned > > on an > > > > Imacon 848 at 6300ppi. Not a bad image to highlight the points you noted.) > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2003-10-14 by Carl Schofield
On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 05:57 PM, Steve Kale wrote: > Very tough call on the B&W to my eye. Again it is a bit frustrating > as the watermark > for B&W has, again to my eye, a slight purple tint to it and it is so > dominant across a > page. In the couple of prints I have done thus far, IP prints seem > more saturated in > the darkest parts of the image (without a noticeable loss of detail > across the image...) > and so the QTR versions appear a little "washed out" by comparison. I > would be really > interested in what others (Carl?) think as my testing here is by no > means scientific. > For completeness, I have been printing to Hahnemuhle Photorag using the > ep2200mkb_grayPhRag308_2880 profile in IP and comparing it with QTR at > 1440x720HQ. (I am a bit worried that printing at 2880dpi is > saturating the page too > much...?) Steve, I exchanged test prints with Tom Fors when I was testing the UT inks with QTR and he sent me some IP 5.6 prints on EEM (UC inks). To my eye, the tone of the neutral IP print was matched best with a 30 warm/70 cool blend of the warm/cool QTR UC profiles for EEM. The QTR prints had slightly more deep shadow detail in the 95-100 % region, but otherwise the IP and QTR prints looked very similar when the tones were matched. I don't think you can stray too far from neutral with the IP tint picker, so if you need decidedly warm or cool tones (or even sepia) then this might be difficult with IP. Carl
2003-10-14 by Wendel White
These are some good comments. I have used IP for nearly two years and I have to say that the power and flexibility of the program slowly grows on you to the point that none of the currently discussed concerns are so important. I would admit that some users may not find the difference in quality significant (especially with the newest printers and drivers.) However, IP (once learned) gives the user a level of control over printing that I have not found in any "over the counter" interface. Over time I have come to love the ugly interface - it's not a pretty app without power or flexibility - it's powerful and it embraces it's own ugliness. IP gives solid control over the placement of images on the page (really useful on my 24" printer), I can create any size or shape of page, place various images on the page, reprint pages weeks later without redoing the setup (just move the queue back into the active window) full control over color profiles and ink levels without going into a page layout program that prefers a postscript printer or assumes I am going to an offset press. Wendel
2003-10-14 by Richard Sintchak
Monday, October 13, 2003, 10:57:54 AM, you wrote: AHcn> Richard, AHcn> I'm not at home on my XP machine so not sure if I'll get AHcn> this sequence correct, but... AHcn> Go into the Control Panel, Printers, and right-click on AHcn> your 2200, then, select Properties. Click the "Port" tab and AHcn> find the checked box which will show the USB port Windoze has AHcn> assigned to your printer (yeah, even though this is a virtual AHcn> port!). On my machine it's USB003. This port id is what has to AHcn> be entered into the Local box for IP. AHcn> As for the time delay you seem to be having between AHcn> clicking print and the printer supposedly starting to print, AHcn> something is strange here. Dunno what size files your sending, AHcn> but I was sending 20-30MB files and the printer started printing AHcn> within secs of clicking the Print button. I doubt that ColorByte AHcn> would provide any support to someone looking at an eval. From AHcn> what I've read they're not really big on support even if you've AHcn> bought the software! If you downloaded the eval from Calumet AHcn> (which you probably did because I don't know of any other AHcn> download available), I would try them. I dealt with Rick Dean, AHcn> there, and he was very helpful. Actually, I believe it was my AHcn> conversations with Rick that got the eval link on the website in AHcn> the first place. AHcn> Good luck, AHcn> Alan Huntley First, thanks to all who responded to my plea for help. The bad news is I had tried all suggestions in every different combination and re-installation option that existed. In the end it was simple: set the paper in the printer FIRST using the paper button, THEN printing with IP. I did not know this. Maybe my situation is unique in having to do this? It was not mentioned in any archives or in the IP manual that I saw. Nonetheless, it now prints! Tested so far with a few of my favorite B&W files on Arches Infinity Smooth, Photo Rag and Enhanced Matte. even though the DEMO multiple times across the image does make it hard to evaluate it seems pretty impressive compared to my results from my 1160 with MIS FS-N inks. Now to test more for metamerism and tinting. Once again, thanks to all who responded. I was pulling my hair out! -- Best regards, Richard mailto:richard@...
2003-10-14 by Steve Kale
Thanks Carl...I will do a little more testing tonight. (FYI on the colour print I did, with things settling overnight I find it very difficult to tell much difference in the prints...even in the blues...but will take a further closer look this evening.)
From: Carl Schofield <scho@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:54:49 -0400 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ImagePrint 5.6 On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 05:57 PM, Steve Kale wrote: > Very tough call on the B&W to my eye. Again it is a bit frustrating > as the watermark > for B&W has, again to my eye, a slight purple tint to it and it is so > dominant across a > page. In the couple of prints I have done thus far, IP prints seem > more saturated in > the darkest parts of the image (without a noticeable loss of detail > across the image...) > and so the QTR versions appear a little "washed out" by comparison. I > would be really > interested in what others (Carl?) think as my testing here is by no > means scientific. > For completeness, I have been printing to Hahnemuhle Photorag using the > ep2200mkb_grayPhRag308_2880 profile in IP and comparing it with QTR at > 1440x720HQ. (I am a bit worried that printing at 2880dpi is > saturating the page too > much...?) Steve, I exchanged test prints with Tom Fors when I was testing the UT inks with QTR and he sent me some IP 5.6 prints on EEM (UC inks). To my eye, the tone of the neutral IP print was matched best with a 30 warm/70 cool blend of the warm/cool QTR UC profiles for EEM. The QTR prints had slightly more deep shadow detail in the 95-100 % region, but otherwise the IP and QTR prints looked very similar when the tones were matched. I don't think you can stray too far from neutral with the IP tint picker, so if you need decidedly warm or cool tones (or even sepia) then this might be difficult with IP. Carl Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3707890.4968055.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705019 182:HM/A=1595055/R=0/SIG=124j83ehr/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattog yo?YH=3707890&yhad=1595055> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - Include your full name with your message. - Include the address of your website, if you have one. - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames - Complete your Yahoo profile. - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]