Digital BW, The Print

I should be getting a 2nd new replacement 1280 any day now. I have 
been previously using the original VM inkset and decided with this 
one to try the UT inks. My question is, would it be a good idea just 
to use the UT in the 1280 right out of the box? Or should the Epson 
ink be run through the printer a little bit then switched? I read a 
couple posts about the Eboni Black clogging up sometimes when it gets 
mixed with the Epson inks. Thanks for any help.

matt

How does one clean the Parking pads?

I'm about to install UTs in a used 1160 that has been running with 
Epson OEM ink in it for awhile.

Thanks,

-Jeff

On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 07:07 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

>
> The problem I had with my 1280 that had dye in it first was the dye on 
> the
> parking pad itself, not the dye in the heads.  These were just nuisance
> type, little clogs, nothing serious.  Cleaning the pads took care of 
> them.

Matt,

>I should be getting a 2nd new replacement 1280 any day now. ...
>My question is, would it be a good idea just
>to use the UT in the 1280 right out of the box? Or should the Epson
>ink be run through the printer a little bit then switched? I read a
>couple posts about the Eboni Black clogging up sometimes when it gets
>mixed with the Epson inks. Thanks for any help.

Good question -- and maybe no clear answer.

There are arguments going both ways.  Given my impatience, I'd probably just
stick the UT inks in and see what happens.

Here are some factors to consider.

MIS takes the position that there is not enough ink in the 1280 head to clog
it.  Of course, I'm sure they'd also like to sell some flushing fluid if it
makes you feel more safe.

The problem I had with my 1280 that had dye in it first was the dye on the
parking pad itself, not the dye in the heads.  These were just nuisance
type, little clogs, nothing serious.  Cleaning the pads took care of them.

I've heard that it's a good idea to be sure the printer is working before
putting in 3rd party inks.  If you go to Epson for a replacement, they'll
blame the 3rd party inks unless the problem is with their own inks.  I don't
see this as a reason to put in the OEM ink first, however.  If there is a
problem with the UT ink, then I'd put in the dye and see if the problem is
still there.

I've also heard that new printers ship with a substance in the heads that is
best cleaned out with Epson dye.  I really don't know about this.

With my refurbished 1160 I just put the MIS ink in first, and it worked
fine.  It may be that re-furbished printers do not have the new printer
fluid in the heads, however.  (If refurbished, is there already dye on the
pads?  I would hope they'd replaced those pads.)

So, I can't really say which way to go.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Jeff,

Just did this myself with no real problem, I am now about 1/2 way through
the first set of cartridges.  YMMV.  I did put windex on the parking pads
just before the change, but for a different reason.  (Vacation)

Phil Morse
www.DigitaLoft.com

Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New 1280 and UT ink


>
>
> How does one clean the Parking pads?
>
> I'm about to install UTs in a used 1160 that has been running with
> Epson OEM ink in it for awhile.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Jeff

Hi Jeff,

It seems that nobody quite answers this question, even when they 
directly reply to it ;)

By searching the archives with "clean parking pads", I found this:

quote:

"I succesfully cleaned parking pads today and installed my first MIS
UT filled cartridges. I would like to share with you my findings:

1. Cleaning of parking pads with paper tower, was easy. First was
just placing paper towel on pads to soak as much ink as it could.
Than by siringe with litle hose on syringe I put few drops of warm
water. Than soak with paper towel this. Than parking pad was turning
to white grey color as more and more black ink was soak to towel. At
the end towel didn't take almost any color."

Sounds good to me...

I have a question that you may know the answer to. I'm about to 
install a CIS with UT inks in an 1160 too. My question was in a 
separate post, but here goes:

"Hi,

I'm wondering if you need to maintain the vacuum in the tubing lines
after filling the CFS carts (after the ink 'surges' to the carts and
the ink tube is 'at least 1" in the bottle'). I understand that I
let the sponges soak up the ink overnight, but then I'm instructed
to put the caps (with the tube and vent holes) on the bottles... Am
I supposed to somehow maintain the vacuum while:

1. pulling the tube out of the bottle,
2. capping the bottle with the drilled cap,
3. cutting the excess slack out of the lines,
4. marking the tubes at 3 3/4", and
5. inserting the tubes through the caps and into the bottles?

If so, how? I've read everything I could find and it's probably so
obvious that no one felt it merited mention. I called tech support,
but I wanted to get started tonight (printing tommorrow!!! =)

details: 1160 MIS CFS with UT inks

Thank you so much for your help - this will be my first (hopefully)
working CFS...

Jim Batzer
dbatzer@c..."

Sorry for the long post...   =)

Thanks, 

Jim Batzer

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Magidson 
<jef.jef@v...> wrote:
> 
> 
> How does one clean the Parking pads?
> 
> I'm about to install UTs in a used 1160 that has been running with 
> Epson OEM ink in it for awhile.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 07:07 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> >
> > The problem I had with my 1280 that had dye in it first was the 
dye on 
> > the
> > parking pad itself, not the dye in the heads.  These were just 
nuisance
> > type, little clogs, nothing serious.  Cleaning the pads took 
care of 
> > them.

Matt,

I recently purchased a new 1280 and had the same
question.  I had previously tried eboni with my used
1160 which provided me the opportuinity to experience
the dreaded eboni dye/pigment instant printer death.

That being said - I primed my 1280 with Selenium
Piezotone with Museum Black and haven't had one
problem.  Actally, I've had very little problems by
doing this, very few cleaning cycles are ever needed -
exept when changing cartridges.

Good luck,
Don



 
--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> >I should be getting a 2nd new replacement 1280 any
> day now. ...
> >My question is, would it be a good idea just
> >to use the UT in the 1280 right out of the box? Or
> should the Epson
> >ink be run through the printer a little bit then
> switched? I read a
> >couple posts about the Eboni Black clogging up
> sometimes when it gets
> >mixed with the Epson inks. Thanks for any help.
> 
> Good question -- and maybe no clear answer.
> 
> There are arguments going both ways.  Given my
> impatience, I'd probably just
> stick the UT inks in and see what happens.
> 


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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Betea"
<mbetea@w...> 
wrote:
> I should be getting a 2nd new replacement 1280 any day now. I have 
> been previously using the original VM inkset and decided with this 
> one to try the UT inks. My question is, would it be a good idea
just 
> to use the UT in the 1280 right out of the box? Or should the Epson 
> ink be run through the printer a little bit then switched? I read a 
> couple posts about the Eboni Black clogging up sometimes when it
gets 
> mixed with the Epson inks. Thanks for any help.
> 
> matt

I had the same dilemma when I got my replacement 1280 a week ago and
decided to 
go with Epson inks first just to make sure everything works as
expected. I switched to 
UT afterwards and had no problems. Eboni ink behaves better in terms
of clogging 
then FS I had before.

Andu

Thanks for the help guys. Yeah I think I will put the Epson ink in 
first after thinking about it. If by chance this printer is somehow 
bad (please not) then that'll save me from at least wasting another 
set of inks. 

One more question though. I've read the cleaning procedure for the pad
(s), but I'm a bit unclear as to where it/they are actually located? 
That might help haha. Looking in the printer, I see a square pad over 
on the right side where the head usually sits when the printer is 
off, is this the pad?

Thanks again.

matt

> I had the same dilemma when I got my replacement 1280 a week ago and
> decided to 
> go with Epson inks first just to make sure everything works as
> expected. I switched to 
> UT afterwards and had no problems. Eboni ink behaves better in terms
> of clogging 
> then FS I had before.
> 
> Andu

I think this is a related question.  I have been using the Epson OEM and an inexpensive aftermarket ink in my 1280.  My main papers are Epson EEM and Velver Fine Art.  I have also used Satine as a kind of proof paper.  I do my B/W work using a black only workflow discussed here earlier in the year and I am pretty please with it.  I do not now have the resources to make a full switch to a hextone or CFS sytem so for now Black Only will have to be my method of choice.   My question is this; there are numerous replacement cartridges for my OEM black and I was wondering if I could improve my output by substituting another black (UT, Museo, Eboni, etc...)  I do my routine text printing on a C80 so I can afford to specialize a bit with the black in my 1280. I would appreciate any suggestions and/or pitfalls to this approach.
 
Jerry in Houston


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Last night, in my "I'm stupid" post, I wrote of my nozzle clogs and
poor results from the new MIS UT B&W cartridges.  Here's an update.
     I made 6 prints last night, on a variety of papers, and all showed
poor results with the new Roark UT curves and they all looked completely
solarized.  The last two had severe banding due to an obvious clog.  I
also tried loading the old VM curve on the last sheet, the results were
again really bad but the banding from clog was also so bad it was
difficult to evaluate.
     So I let the printer sit overnight.  This morning I came downstairs
and looked at the MIS packing slip, and found that it reads that they
sent me the Eboni black, which is not what I ordered - I ordered photo
black for use with glossy papers.  OK, no problem - maybe I'll just be
OK printing on matte paper.  So I opened up an image, loaded my old
favorite curve, the VM medium warm curve, and did a nozzle check.  Black
is about 80% clogged.  It took 5 cleanings to get it clear, but it
eventually did print a good nozzle check.  I made the 5"x7" print, and
although it's much warmer than the VM inks, it's decent with no
solarizing.
      I ran another nozzle check right after that, and black is now
clogged again.  About 10% this time.  This time it took only one
cleaning cycle to clear it.  So this time I loaded the old VM neutral
curve and printed another 5x7.  This time the tones are more to my
liking, and the print is decent again, but the shadows are all blocked
up and the print has way too much contrast.  Maybe I can work that out
with some adjustments.  I shut off the printer.
     Obviously, there are some issues here:
1.  MIS sent the wrong black (not a big problem).
2.  The eboni is clogging badly.  I've made about 8 5x7's and the
cleaning cycles have forced me to use more than 1/4 of the cartridges so
far.  Even the prints that are decent have some mild bleeding near the
edges.
3.  Paul's new UT curves for the 1280 don't work for my 1280.  Here we
go again with variations in the same specific model printers.

     I plan on calling MIS today and seeing if they will replace these
cartridges with standard VM cartridges and offer something to clean the
printer before I insert them.  I'm not interested in working out the
bugs because I need to make prints now.  I guess I'm going back to
coating the VM prints.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

Here's another update.  I called MIS and they are being very good about
this and sending me replacement VM cartridges for the UT cartridges.
Hopefully once I get that ink flowing the clogs will go away for good.

Beware people, as we've come to learn - not all 1280's are created
equal.  This is something that must be pursued further.  I don't believe
it to be an issue with software or workflow.  I'm guessing it has
something to do with either the actual parts in the printer or the
programming of the printer itself.  It might be interesting to come up
with a set of dates of manufacture and see if there is a correlation as
to which curves and inksets are working best with which units.

Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mathews [mailto:ed@...] 
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 7:59 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] UT B&W update
> 
> 
>      Last night, in my "I'm stupid" post, I wrote of my 
> nozzle clogs and
> poor results from the new MIS UT B&W cartridges.  Here's an update.
>      I made 6 prints last night, on a variety of papers, and 
> all showed
> poor results with the new Roark UT curves and they all looked 
> completely
> solarized.  The last two had severe banding due to an obvious clog.  I
> also tried loading the old VM curve on the last sheet, the 
> results were
> again really bad but the banding from clog was also so bad it was
> difficult to evaluate.
>      So I let the printer sit overnight.  This morning I came 
> downstairs
> and looked at the MIS packing slip, and found that it reads that they
> sent me the Eboni black, which is not what I ordered - I ordered photo
> black for use with glossy papers.  OK, no problem - maybe I'll just be
> OK printing on matte paper.  So I opened up an image, loaded my old
> favorite curve, the VM medium warm curve, and did a nozzle 
> check.  Black
> is about 80% clogged.  It took 5 cleanings to get it clear, but it
> eventually did print a good nozzle check.  I made the 5"x7" print, and
> although it's much warmer than the VM inks, it's decent with no
> solarizing.
>       I ran another nozzle check right after that, and black is now
> clogged again.  About 10% this time.  This time it took only one
> cleaning cycle to clear it.  So this time I loaded the old VM neutral
> curve and printed another 5x7.  This time the tones are more to my
> liking, and the print is decent again, but the shadows are all blocked
> up and the print has way too much contrast.  Maybe I can work that out
> with some adjustments.  I shut off the printer.
>      Obviously, there are some issues here:
> 1.  MIS sent the wrong black (not a big problem).
> 2.  The eboni is clogging badly.  I've made about 8 5x7's and the
> cleaning cycles have forced me to use more than 1/4 of the 
> cartridges so
> far.  Even the prints that are decent have some mild bleeding near the
> edges.
> 3.  Paul's new UT curves for the 1280 don't work for my 1280.  Here we
> go again with variations in the same specific model printers.
> 
>      I plan on calling MIS today and seeing if they will replace these
> cartridges with standard VM cartridges and offer something to 
> clean the
> printer before I insert them.  I'm not interested in working out the
> bugs because I need to make prints now.  I guess I'm going back to
> coating the VM prints.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

Ed,

Be sure the right inks are in the system.  Print the purge pattern and be
sure the Cyan is the darkest gray (but lighter than black), Magenta the cold
toner, and hextone yellow the light gray.

Also, print 21-step test files with individual inks to check that the light
ink really is light.  To do this print 3 of the test files, each with only
one color activated.  You can do this with the Photoshop image adjustment
curves.  For one file leave the red curve in its default 45 degree position,
but pull the green and blue up so that they are horizontal at the top/light
end of the curve. This turns off those inks. (Be sure the driver is set to
"No Color Adjustment.")  Do a similar curve for each of the colors.  This
will print each color separately.  If one of the light inks is way off, the
resulting print will probably show it.  They should, obviously, be smooth
ramps.

As far as the clogging with Eboni goes, I'm afraid I don't have many ideas.
It appears to be sensitive to pollution, but I've never had a problem with
it once the dyes were removed from my parking pads.  One thing you might do
is mix the bottle thoroughly and then pour some Eboni into a test tube or
the like.  Let it sit for several days and see if it is separating.  If it
is, maybe the ink is defective.  If the ink is separating in you system, it
might cause the problems you describe.

I think the PiezoTones have had trouble with some sponges in carts.  Perhaps
there is a batch of carts out there that is causing problems with Eboni, but
I'm speculating.

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble.  The system can work very well.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mathews [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 4:59 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] UT B&W update


     Last night, in my "I'm stupid" post, I wrote of my nozzle clogs and
poor results from the new MIS UT B&W cartridges.  Here's an update.
     I made 6 prints last night, on a variety of papers, and all showed
poor results with the new Roark UT curves and they all looked completely
solarized.  The last two had severe banding due to an obvious clog.  I
also tried loading the old VM curve on the last sheet, the results were
again really bad but the banding from clog was also so bad it was
difficult to evaluate.
     So I let the printer sit overnight.  This morning I came downstairs
and looked at the MIS packing slip, and found that it reads that they
sent me the Eboni black, which is not what I ordered - I ordered photo
black for use with glossy papers.  OK, no problem - maybe I'll just be
OK printing on matte paper.  So I opened up an image, loaded my old
favorite curve, the VM medium warm curve, and did a nozzle check.  Black
is about 80% clogged.  It took 5 cleanings to get it clear, but it
eventually did print a good nozzle check.  I made the 5"x7" print, and
although it's much warmer than the VM inks, it's decent with no
solarizing.
      I ran another nozzle check right after that, and black is now
clogged again.  About 10% this time.  This time it took only one
cleaning cycle to clear it.  So this time I loaded the old VM neutral
curve and printed another 5x7.  This time the tones are more to my
liking, and the print is decent again, but the shadows are all blocked
up and the print has way too much contrast.  Maybe I can work that out
with some adjustments.  I shut off the printer.
     Obviously, there are some issues here:
1.  MIS sent the wrong black (not a big problem).
2.  The eboni is clogging badly.  I've made about 8 5x7's and the
cleaning cycles have forced me to use more than 1/4 of the cartridges so
far.  Even the prints that are decent have some mild bleeding near the
edges.
3.  Paul's new UT curves for the 1280 don't work for my 1280.  Here we
go again with variations in the same specific model printers.

     I plan on calling MIS today and seeing if they will replace these
cartridges with standard VM cartridges and offer something to clean the
printer before I insert them.  I'm not interested in working out the
bugs because I need to make prints now.  I guess I'm going back to
coating the VM prints.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com



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