Digital BW, The Print

Paul or------,
I have 870 with MIS VM, using Roark curves.. Am considering the 
C82 after all the excitement here.  How would you compare the 
two?
Also, is it possible to do the same or similar with the C80. The 
black ink is the same as the C82, but the colors are different.
Thanks,
Antara

Antara,

>I have 870 with MIS VM, using Roark curves.. Am considering the
>C82 after all the excitement here.
>How would you compare the two?

The 870 may be the better printer.  The UT inks, however, are better than
the VM inks in terms of longevity (and tones, in my view).  So, if the UT
inkset ran well with the curves and in your printer, there would not be much
reason to change.

The C82 is part of an effort to have a very affordable and easy archival B&W
printing solution -- for anyone.  For what it is and costs, it's doing a
very good job.  I'm putting the finishing touches on a neutral inkset now.

The weaknesses of the C82 are, first, that its dmax is a bit low.  With the
neutral inkset I'm seeing 1.58-9 on EEM and 1.59-60 on PhotoRag.

Second, of course, is that it, like the 870, cannot print larger than
letter-size paper.

Third, like all monotone inksets, the tones cannot be fine-tuned in the same
way the vm & UT inksets can.  And, of course, there is not ability to do
split-tone printing.

In the neutral inkset for the C82 I've compromised the neutral tone as
follows:  EEM is 0.01 cool, and PhotoRag is 0.01 warm at 50%.

On the other hand, the C82 has a unique trick here.  If the warm (UT light
C) ink is put in the yellow spot, EEM is then 0.01 units warm.  If a warm
ink cart is put in the magenta spot, EEM is then 0.04 units warm.  To switch
between these, in fact, I just swapped the yellow and magenta position
carts -- they are all interchangeable.  So, with 2 inks, much more fine
tuning is possible on the C82 than on most monotone inksets.

The forth weakness or quirk of the C82 is that the head often nicks the
bottom 3/16 inch of the paper.  So, there is sometimes if not often a little
ink on the bottom right corner.

I don't know how well the existing curves work on the 870 for the UT inks.
For PC users with 1270s the 1280 driver seems to work.  That way they can
use the 1280 UT curves.  If that approach works for the 870 and you, then it
might be worth trying a UT cart.

>Also, is it possible to do the same or similar with the C80. ...

I don't know.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul for your full response.
On MIS website, I don't see that UT is available for the 870. 
Guess they could "chip" it??
re the curves- I have used the curves for 1270 and 870 (my 1270 
died recently). So I assume I could use the 1280 curves for 870. 
Yes?
Do you know what the dmax is for EEM, UT and 1270/870? 
Higher, I assume than the C82.
Didn't understand your explanation of EEM .01 warm and cool.
If you have time, could you please flesh that out a little more.
thanks,
Antara 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul 
Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Antara,
> 
> >I have 870 with MIS VM, using Roark curves.. Am considering 
the
> >C82 after all the excitement here.
> >How would you compare the two?
> 
> The 870 may be the better printer.  The UT inks, however, are 
better than
> the VM inks in terms of longevity (and tones, in my view).  So, if 
the UT
> inkset ran well with the curves and in your printer, there would 
not be much
> reason to change.
> 
> The C82 is part of an effort to have a very affordable and easy 
archival B&W
> printing solution -- for anyone.  For what it is and costs, it's 
doing a
> very good job.  I'm putting the finishing touches on a neutral 
inkset now.
> 
> The weaknesses of the C82 are, first, that its dmax is a bit low.  
With the
> neutral inkset I'm seeing 1.58-9 on EEM and 1.59-60 on 
PhotoRag.
> 
> Second, of course, is that it, like the 870, cannot print larger 
than
> letter-size paper.
> 
> Third, like all monotone inksets, the tones cannot be fine-tuned 
in the same
> way the vm & UT inksets can.  And, of course, there is not 
ability to do
> split-tone printing.
> 
> In the neutral inkset for the C82 I've compromised the neutral 
tone as
> follows:  EEM is 0.01 cool, and PhotoRag is 0.01 warm at 50%.
> 
> On the other hand, the C82 has a unique trick here.  If the 
warm (UT light
> C) ink is put in the yellow spot, EEM is then 0.01 units warm.  If 
a warm
> ink cart is put in the magenta spot, EEM is then 0.04 units 
warm.  To switch
> between these, in fact, I just swapped the yellow and magenta 
position
> carts -- they are all interchangeable.  So, with 2 inks, much 
more fine
> tuning is possible on the C82 than on most monotone inksets.
> 
> The forth weakness or quirk of the C82 is that the head often 
nicks the
> bottom 3/16 inch of the paper.  So, there is sometimes if not 
often a little
> ink on the bottom right corner.
> 
> I don't know how well the existing curves work on the 870 for 
the UT inks.
> For PC users with 1270s the 1280 driver seems to work.  That 
way they can
> use the 1280 UT curves.  If that approach works for the 870 
and you, then it

> might be worth trying a UT cart.
> 
> >Also, is it possible to do the same or similar with the C80. ...
> 
> I don't know.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Antara,

>On MIS website, I don't see that UT is available for the 870.

They must have the empty carts.  I wrote the VM curves for the 870 & 1270 on
a 870 -- filling empty carts from MIS with bulk VM ink.  So, it just means
you'll have to fill the carts.

>re the curves- I have used the curves for 1270 and 870 (my 1270
>died recently). So I assume I could use the 1280 curves for 870.

The 1280 curves would work -- but work well only if you use the 1280 (or
equivalent letter-size printer) driver.

>Do you know what the dmax is for EEM, UT and 1270/870?

Eboni will hit about 1.66-7 most of the time.

>Higher, I assume than the C82.

Yes.

>Didn't understand your explanation of EEM .01 warm and cool.

The spectrophotometer I have measures densities to 0.01 -- in each of the
cyan, magenta, and yellow channels, as well as a "visual" reading.  Neutral
is when c=m=y.  The "selenium" tone is when M is 0.01 above C&Y.  Cool tone
is when C exceeds Y. Warm is when Y exceeds C.  You can see a 0.01
difference in side-by-side comparisons.

So, I use these spectrophotometer readings to mix the inksets and make the
curves.  It's the most accurate way I know of to do this.

Hope this helps.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
___________________________________________

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Antara,
>
> >I have 870 with MIS VM, using Roark curves.. Am considering
the
> >C82 after all the excitement here.
> >How would you compare the two?
>
> The 870 may be the better printer.  The UT inks, however, are
better than
> the VM inks in terms of longevity (and tones, in my view).  So, if
the UT
> inkset ran well with the curves and in your printer, there would
not be much
> reason to change.
>
> The C82 is part of an effort to have a very affordable and easy
archival B&W
> printing solution -- for anyone.  For what it is and costs, it's
doing a
> very good job.  I'm putting the finishing touches on a neutral
inkset now.
>
> The weaknesses of the C82 are, first, that its dmax is a bit low.
With the
> neutral inkset I'm seeing 1.58-9 on EEM and 1.59-60 on
PhotoRag.
>
> Second, of course, is that it, like the 870, cannot print larger
than
> letter-size paper.
>
> Third, like all monotone inksets, the tones cannot be fine-tuned
in the same
> way the vm & UT inksets can.  And, of course, there is not
ability to do
> split-tone printing.
>
> In the neutral inkset for the C82 I've compromised the neutral
tone as
> follows:  EEM is 0.01 cool, and PhotoRag is 0.01 warm at 50%.
>
> On the other hand, the C82 has a unique trick here.  If the
warm (UT light
> C) ink is put in the yellow spot, EEM is then 0.01 units warm.  If
a warm
> ink cart is put in the magenta spot, EEM is then 0.04 units
warm.  To switch
> between these, in fact, I just swapped the yellow and magenta
position
> carts -- they are all interchangeable.  So, with 2 inks, much
more fine
> tuning is possible on the C82 than on most monotone inksets.
>
> The forth weakness or quirk of the C82 is that the head often
nicks the
> bottom 3/16 inch of the paper.  So, there is sometimes if not
often a little
> ink on the bottom right corner.
>
> I don't know how well the existing curves work on the 870 for
the UT inks.
> For PC users with 1270s the 1280 driver seems to work.  That
way they can
> use the 1280 UT curves.  If that approach works for the 870
and you, then it
> might be worth trying a UT cart.
>
> >Also, is it possible to do the same or similar with the C80. ...
>
> I don't know.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/