Digital BW, The Print

I have downloaded the profiles that Paul has on the MIS website for an Epson Photo 
Stylus 1200. I'm using the variable Quadtone ink sets and have everything set up as 
suggested by Paul's workflow. I have had nothing but horrid results. After the first 
print hit the garbage can I loaded the curves back in and went into the individual 
channels and looked at the way he has them bent. After looking at the individual 
colors and how they are bent, I thought I had found the problem. I was having a 
minor bit of solarization going on in mid-tones. So I took the pins out of the Blue 
curve which were bent in a ridiculous manner which was causing the solarization. You 
can't bend curves up and down in a sign wave type of manner and have your tones 
come out without them being solorized. I can't see how anyone can have decent 
results with these curve settings. My shadow area is not continuous; there are blotchy 
spots through out the blacks, no continuous tones. It looks like someone took a felt 
tip pen and made a bunch of dots to create the black area. I just can't see how these 
curves were created and anyone have, like I said, good results. I'm professional color 
technician and have been doing color for prepress for over 7 years and can't seem to 
get this to work. If anyone has ANY advice on how these inks and how digital printing 
with these inks and curve settings, please let me know how you accomplished this. 
Everyone I have asked can't see how these curve settings can even come close to 
giving good results. I have had everything set exactly as to Paul's workflow and just 
can't seem to get it right. Conventional printing may be the road I travel again. This is 
very counter-productive.

www.deanmbeattiephoto.com

I've been using Paul's curves in a 1160 and getting pretty good 
results, as good as if not better than what I was getting with the 
PiezgraphyBW software. In fact I no longer see any banding with the  
heavier weight paper.

Did you by any chance convert your grayscale image to RGB prior to 
printing ?

And lastly, you might want to tone down your remarks a wee bit!

Cheers,
Andre


--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dizzyashell2003" 
<dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
> I have downloaded the profiles that Paul has on the MIS website for 
an Epson Photo 
> Stylus 1200. I'm using the variable Quadtone ink sets and have 
everything set up as 
> suggested by Paul's workflow. I have had nothing but horrid 
results. After the first 
> print hit the garbage can I loaded the curves back in and went into 
the individual 
> channels and looked at the way he has them bent. After looking at 
the individual 
> colors and how they are bent, I thought I had found the problem. I 
was having a 
> minor bit of solarization going on in mid-tones. So I took the pins 
out of the Blue 
> curve which were bent in a ridiculous manner which was causing the 
solarization. You 
> can't bend curves up and down in a sign wave type of manner and 
have your tones 
> come out without them being solorized. I can't see how anyone can 
have decent 
> results with these curve settings. My shadow area is not 
continuous; there are blotchy 
> spots through out the blacks, no continuous tones. It looks like 
someone took a felt 
> tip pen and made a bunch of dots to create the black area. I just 
can't see how these 
> curves were created and anyone have, like I said, good results. I'm 
professional color 
> technician and have been doing color for prepress for over 7 years 
and can't seem to 
> get this to work. If anyone has ANY advice on how these inks and 
how digital printing 
> with these inks and curve settings, please let me know how you 
accomplished this. 
> Everyone I have asked can't see how these curve settings can even 
come close to 
> giving good results. I have had everything set exactly as to Paul's 
workflow and just 
> can't seem to get it right. Conventional printing may be the road I 
travel again. This is 

> very counter-productive.
> 
> www.deanmbeattiephoto.com

I mean no disrespect toward the work people have put into these curves. I am simply 
not having the results that everyone is saying should be present when using the 
workflow.
Yes I did convert to RGB. I'm not having any luck. I'm using  Epson Enhanced Matte 
paper and having the blotches in the shadow area. My highlights and midtones are 
smokin', but the rest is unfavorable. 
-Dean


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sceptre12345" 
<am1000@v...> wrote:

> I've been using Paul's curves in a 1160 and getting pretty good 
> results, as good as if not better than what I was getting with the 
> PiezgraphyBW software. In fact I no longer see any banding with the  
> heavier weight paper.
> 
> Did you by any chance convert your grayscale image to RGB prior to 
> printing ?
> 
> And lastly, you might want to tone down your remarks a wee bit!
> 
> Cheers,
> Andre
> 
> 
> --- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dizzyashell2003" 
> <dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
> > I have downloaded the profiles that Paul has on the MIS website for 
> an Epson Photo 
> > Stylus 1200. I'm using the variable Quadtone ink sets and have 
> everything set up as 
> > suggested by Paul's workflow. I have had nothing but horrid 
> results. After the first 
> > print hit the garbage can I loaded the curves back in and went into 
> the individual 
> > channels and looked at the way he has them bent. After looking at 
> the individual 
> > colors and how they are bent, I thought I had found the problem. I 
> was having a 
> > minor bit of solarization going on in mid-tones. So I took the pins 
> out of the Blue 
> > curve which were bent in a ridiculous manner which was causing the 
> solarization. You 
> > can't bend curves up and down in a sign wave type of manner and 
> have your tones 
> > come out without them being solorized. I can't see how anyone can 
> have decent 
> > results with these curve settings. My shadow area is not 
> continuous; there are blotchy 
> > spots through out the blacks, no continuous tones. It looks like 
> someone took a felt 
> > tip pen and made a bunch of dots to create the black area. I just 
> can't see how these 
> > curves were created and anyone have, like I said, good results. I'm 
> professional color 
> > technician and have been doing color for prepress for over 7 years 
> and can't seem to 
> > get this to work. If anyone has ANY advice on how these inks and 
> how digital printing 
> > with these inks and curve settings, please let me know how you 
> accomplished this. 
> > Everyone I have asked can't see how these curve settings can even 
> come close to 
> > giving good results. I have had everything set exactly as to Paul's 
> workflow and just 
> > can't seem to get it right. Conventional printing may be the road I 
> travel again. This is 
> > very counter-productive.
> > 
> > www.deanmbeattiephoto.com

I also have an 1160, and you may find very satisfactory results not 
using those curves, but instead creating a transfer function curve 
(search here will yield the details). It makes all the difference. 
The trick is an 11 step wedge to determine your tonal values.

I believe Paul's work is wonderful, but each specific printer seems 
to be different in how it reacts, so there is no flat answer.

I'm getting terrific results using this method.
Best,
Mark R.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sceptre12345" 
<am1000@v...> wrote:
> I've been using Paul's curves in a 1160 and getting pretty good 
> results, as good as if not better than what I was getting with the 
> PiezgraphyBW software. In fact I no longer see any banding with 
the  
> heavier weight paper.
> 
> Did you by any chance convert your grayscale image to RGB prior to 
> printing ?
> 
> And lastly, you might want to tone down your remarks a wee bit!
> 
> Cheers,
> Andre
> 
> 
> --- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dizzyashell2003" 
> <dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
> > I have downloaded the profiles that Paul has on the MIS website 
for 
> an Epson Photo 
> > Stylus 1200. I'm using the variable Quadtone ink sets and have 
> everything set up as 
> > suggested by Paul's workflow. I have had nothing but horrid 
> results. After the first 
> > print hit the garbage can I loaded the curves back in and went 
into 
> the individual 
> > channels and looked at the way he has them bent. After looking at 
> the individual 
> > colors and how they are bent, I thought I had found the problem. 
I 
> was having a 
> > minor bit of solarization going on in mid-tones. So I took the 
pins 
> out of the Blue 
> > curve which were bent in a ridiculous manner which was causing 
the 
> solarization. You 
> > can't bend curves up and down in a sign wave type of manner and 
> have your tones 
> > come out without them being solorized. I can't see how anyone can 
> have decent 
> > results with these curve settings. My shadow area is not 
> continuous; there are blotchy 
> > spots through out the blacks, no continuous tones. It looks like 
> someone took a felt 
> > tip pen and made a bunch of dots to create the black area. I just 
> can't see how these 
> > curves were created and anyone have, like I said, good results. 
I'm 
> professional color 
> > technician and have been doing color for prepress for over 7 
years 
> and can't seem to 
> > get this to work. If anyone has ANY advice on how these inks and 
> how digital printing 
> > with these inks and curve settings, please let me know how you 
> accomplished this. 
> > Everyone I have asked can't see how these curve settings can even 
> come close to 
> > giving good results. I have had everything set exactly as to 
Paul's 
> workflow and just 
> > can't seem to get it right. Conventional printing may be the road 
I 

> travel again. This is 
> > very counter-productive.
> > 
> > www.deanmbeattiephoto.com

On 9/11/03 2:20 am, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> I have downloaded the profiles that Paul has on the MIS website for an Epson
> Photo Stylus 1200. I'm using the variable Quadtone ink sets and have
> everything set up as suggested by Paul's workflow. I have had nothing but
> horrid results. After the first print hit the garbage can I loaded the curves
> back in and went into the individual channels and looked at the way he has
> them bent. After looking at the individual colors and how they are bent, I
> thought I had found the problem. I was having a minor bit of solarization
> going on in mid-tones. So I took the pins out of the Blue curve which were
> bent in a ridiculous manner which was causing the solarization. You can't bend
> curves up and down in a sign wave type of manner and have your tones come out
> without them being solorized. I can't see how anyone can have decent results
> with these curve settings. My shadow area is not continuous; there are blotchy
> spots through out the blacks, no continuous tones. It looks like someone took
> a felt tip pen and made a bunch of dots to create the black area. I just can't
> see how these curves were created and anyone have, like I said, good results.
> I'm professional color technician and have been doing color for prepress for
> over 7 years and can't seem to get this to work. If anyone has ANY advice on
> how these inks and how digital printing with these inks and curve settings,
> please let me know how you accomplished this. Everyone I have asked can't see
> how these curve settings can even come close to giving good results. I have
> had everything set exactly as to Paul's workflow and just can't seem to get it
> right. Conventional printing may be the road I travel again. This is very
> counter-productive.

I use an Epson 1200 with MIS inks (Permajet VTBlax) and can hopefully
comment on your problem. Don't attempt to tweak Paul's curves as they do
work fine - I understand where you are coming from saying 'you can't bend
curves up and down in a sine wave without solarisation' but that is not the
way to think of the individual ink curves - they are ink coverage for
particular tonal values and blend seamlessly with the ink coverage in other
channels. Forget Paul's curves for the moment.

I can repeat your problems if I either forget to assign and sRGB profile to
the greyscale image when I change to RFGB mode (I usually work in Adobe RGB
1998 for colour and get something like the problem you describe if I leave
the colour space set to this default). If you don't have the printer driver
colour adjustment set for Vivid you will also get weird areas of flat tone -
done this too.

The workflow is simple but every step needs remembering.

Greyscale (get the image as you want it)
Convert to RGB mode
Assign sRGB profile
Use Curves to load appropriate Roark curve (screen image from this time on
tells you nothing as it is false coloured)
Send job to printer choosing 1440dpi, Photo Quality inkjet paper, Colour
control Vivid

I made up a sample file with four copies of a well-toned image and four
21-step wedges and applied one each of the Roark curves to the four images.
The first time I printed this and got all the variable tones with full
separation on the 21-step wedges I knew I was doing things right.

--
Regards
David Prakel

Centre of Britain PhotoWorkshops Partnership
www.photopartners.co.uk

I've been lurking for a while and finally ordered the MIS UT carts for 
my 1280. Paul's workflow seems pretty clear, although I would like to 
verify the color space settings. I understand that I need to convert 
the RGB image to AdobeRGB (which will become the source colorspace), 
and I'm assuming that I should select "Same As Source" for the output 
colorspace since the printer driver is run NCA?

I also gather that while I do not need to flush the heads, it is 
recommended that I clean the parking pads? I downloaded the purge 
patterns from MIS to use to clean out the traces of the Epson dyes.

And finally, are the curves on the MIS workflow page and the ones from 
the Files section here the same? Which are the latest, if not?

Thanks

Keith Hollister
Orlando, FL

Keith: I'd download the files from MIS as you KNOW they are the most
current. I believe RGB and Adobe RGB are the same. Someone will
correct me if I'm wrong. 

Alex Pettit from this list lives in Winter Park and I'm in Apopka. I'm
always taking a class at Crealde School of Art in Winter Park if you
happen to be there as well. Let either of us know if you want to
compare prints. I use 1280, Alex a 2000 & a 3000. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Keith Hollister
<khollist@b...> wrote:

> I've been lurking for a while and finally ordered the MIS UT carts for 
> my 1280. Paul's workflow seems pretty clear, although I would like to 
> verify the color space settings. I understand that I need to convert 
> the RGB image to AdobeRGB (which will become the source colorspace), 
> and I'm assuming that I should select "Same As Source" for the output 
> colorspace since the printer driver is run NCA?
> 
> I also gather that while I do not need to flush the heads, it is 
> recommended that I clean the parking pads? I downloaded the purge 
> patterns from MIS to use to clean out the traces of the Epson dyes.
> 
> And finally, are the curves on the MIS workflow page and the ones from 
> the Files section here the same? Which are the latest, if not?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Keith Hollister
> Orlando, FL