Digital BW, The Print

How do the MIS Ultratone hextone inks compare to the VM (Variable 
Mix) inksets?  My cartridges will run out soon, and I'm wondering 
whether to switch from VM to Ultratone. 

I've been printing with VM for some time on an Epson 1280, using the 
1290 driver (which prints with smoother gradation) and Paul Roarke's 
1290 curves.  I use prefilled cartridges.  I'm reasonably happy with 
the VM inks. Things I'd like to improve:

1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got 
printing B&W with color inks. 

2. It would be nice to go back to the 1280 driver.  

3. Proneness to clogging.  I have experienced some clogging with the 
VM inks after not printing for a week.  Most took just a cleaning 
cycle to clear up, but I had a "clog from hell" recently that 
required Windex and hot water injections to clear. (And thanks to 
everyone who helped me with that recently).

I print matte now. I wouldn't mind trying something glossier at some 
point. When I printed in a chemical darkroom, I used mostly glossy 
paper without ferrotyping, or the old Kodak N "smooth" fiber papers. 

Thanks,
--Peter Klein
Seattle, WA

My first 1280 will be arriving in a week or so. I'm planning to dedicate 
it to B&W printing, using the UltraTone inks from MIS, and Paul Roark's 
1280 curves with Epson Heavyweight Matte (and then Enhanced Matte, once 
I get thru all my Heavyweight).

Are you suggesting that I use the 1290 driver and 1290 curves for best 
results with that printer/ink/paper configuration?

Anybody else have any thoughts on this approach?

Thanks,

Mike

Peter A. Klein wrote:

> How do the MIS Ultratone hextone inks compare to the VM (Variable
> Mix) inksets?  My cartridges will run out soon, and I'm wondering
> whether to switch from VM to Ultratone.
>
> I've been printing with VM for some time on an Epson 1280, using the
> 1290 driver (which prints with smoother gradation) and Paul Roarke's
> 1290 curves.  I use prefilled cartridges.  I'm reasonably happy with
> the VM inks. Things I'd like to improve:
>
> 1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
> printing B&W with color inks.
>
> 2. It would be nice to go back to the 1280 driver. 
>
> 3. Proneness to clogging.  I have experienced some clogging with the
> VM inks after not printing for a week.  Most took just a cleaning
> cycle to clear up, but I had a "clog from hell" recently that
> required Windex and hot water injections to clear. (And thanks to
> everyone who helped me with that recently).
>
> I print matte now. I wouldn't mind trying something glossier at some
> point. When I printed in a chemical darkroom, I used mostly glossy
> paper without ferrotyping, or the old Kodak N "smooth" fiber papers.
>
> Thanks,
> --Peter Klein
> Seattle, WA
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service 
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike,

The 1290 curves were probably better than the 1280 curves for the VM inkset.
For the UT inkset, the 1280 UT curves are the best.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com   

__________________________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Sommers [mailto:mike@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 7:48 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] VM vs. Ultratone

My first 1280 will be arriving in a week or so. I'm planning to dedicate 
it to B&W printing, using the UltraTone inks from MIS, and Paul Roark's 
1280 curves with Epson Heavyweight Matte (and then Enhanced Matte, once 
I get thru all my Heavyweight).

Are you suggesting that I use the 1290 driver and 1290 curves for best 
results with that printer/ink/paper configuration?

Anybody else have any thoughts on this approach?

Thanks,

Mike

Peter A. Klein wrote:

> How do the MIS Ultratone hextone inks compare to the VM (Variable
> Mix) inksets?  My cartridges will run out soon, and I'm wondering
> whether to switch from VM to Ultratone.
>
> I've been printing with VM for some time on an Epson 1280, using the
> 1290 driver (which prints with smoother gradation) and Paul Roarke's
> 1290 curves.  I use prefilled cartridges.  I'm reasonably happy with
> the VM inks. Things I'd like to improve:
>
> 1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
> printing B&W with color inks.
>
> 2. It would be nice to go back to the 1280 driver. 
>
> 3. Proneness to clogging.  I have experienced some clogging with the
> VM inks after not printing for a week.  Most took just a cleaning
> cycle to clear up, but I had a "clog from hell" recently that
> required Windex and hot water injections to clear. (And thanks to
> everyone who helped me with that recently).
>
> I print matte now. I wouldn't mind trying something glossier at some
> point. When I printed in a chemical darkroom, I used mostly glossy
> paper without ferrotyping, or the old Kodak N "smooth" fiber papers.
>
> Thanks,
> --Peter Klein
> Seattle, WA
>

Alright! I'm really looking forward to working with this system. I've 
been printing in color since getting my D100 a year ago, and am about to 
try doing everything in B&W for as long as I can (hopefully a year).

The hardest part for me is converting my images from color to B&W. I go 
into the channel mixer and usually come out with 40% green and 60% red, 
or vice versa... but there are so many combinations that technically 
"work." I'm constantly secong-guessing myself.

Most importantly, I'd like to set up a Photoshop action that will 
quickly convert hundreds of images from color to B&W... Does anybody 
have a recommendation for a basic setting in the channel mixer? or some 
other way of confidently batch-processing from color to B&W for 
"everyday" shots? I'll be printing with the Epson 1280 onto Epson 
Heavyweight Matte (and then Enhanced Matte, once all my Heavyweight runs 
out) with UltraTone Inks from MIS and Paul Roark's workflow.

Thanks,

Mike

Paul Roark wrote:

> Mike,
>
> The 1290 curves were probably better than the 1280 curves for the VM 
> inkset.
> For the UT inkset, the 1280 UT curves are the best.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com  
>
> __________________________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Sommers [mailto:mike@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 7:48 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] VM vs. Ultratone
>
> My first 1280 will be arriving in a week or so. I'm planning to dedicate
> it to B&W printing, using the UltraTone inks from MIS, and Paul Roark's
> 1280 curves with Epson Heavyweight Matte (and then Enhanced Matte, once
> I get thru all my Heavyweight).
>
> Are you suggesting that I use the 1290 driver and 1290 curves for best
> results with that printer/ink/paper configuration?
>
> Anybody else have any thoughts on this approach?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
> Peter A. Klein wrote:
>
> > How do the MIS Ultratone hextone inks compare to the VM (Variable
> > Mix) inksets?  My cartridges will run out soon, and I'm wondering
> > whether to switch from VM to Ultratone.
> >
> > I've been printing with VM for some time on an Epson 1280, using the
> > 1290 driver (which prints with smoother gradation) and Paul Roarke's
> > 1290 curves.  I use prefilled cartridges.  I'm reasonably happy with
> > the VM inks. Things I'd like to improve:
> >
> > 1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
> > printing B&W with color inks.
> >
> > 2. It would be nice to go back to the 1280 driver.
> >
> > 3. Proneness to clogging.  I have experienced some clogging with the
> > VM inks after not printing for a week.  Most took just a cleaning
> > cycle to clear up, but I had a "clog from hell" recently that
> > required Windex and hot water injections to clear. (And thanks to
> > everyone who helped me with that recently).
> >
> > I print matte now. I wouldn't mind trying something glossier at some
> > point. When I printed in a chemical darkroom, I used mostly glossy
> > paper without ferrotyping, or the old Kodak N "smooth" fiber papers.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --Peter Klein
> > Seattle, WA
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service 
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have you taken a look at Convert BW Pro from 
<http://www.theimagingfactory.com/>http://www.theimagingfactory.com/ ?   It 
goes in as a filter under Photoshop, and if you were at home in a darkroom 
you will be comfortable with the interface in about 60 seconds. It offers a 
continuous slider that simulates a color contrast filter, with another 
continuous slider adjusting the color density from 0 to 100. Another set of 
sliders lets you set "film" color response, with selectable presets for 
common B&W films.  A third set of sliders mimics more or less exposure on 
the film, more or less exposure in the enlarger, and a continuous variable 
contrast slider from 0 to 5.  All sliders affect a grayscale image in real 
time. I can't imagine doing B&W conversions without it.  I don't think it 
does batches, but it remembers the settings from the last image each time 
you bring it up.  You can download a 30 day trial version and see how you 
like it.

Cheers,
Kip


At 11/26/2003 11:32 PM -0500, Mike wrote:

>Alright! I'm really looking forward to working with this system. I've
>been printing in color since getting my D100 a year ago, and am about to
>try doing everything in B&W for as long as I can (hopefully a year).
>
>The hardest part for me is converting my images from color to B&W. I go
>into the channel mixer and usually come out with 40% green and 60% red,
>or vice versa... but there are so many combinations that technically
>"work." I'm constantly secong-guessing myself.
>
>Most importantly, I'd like to set up a Photoshop action that will
>quickly convert hundreds of images from color to B&W... Does anybody
>have a recommendation for a basic setting in the channel mixer? or some
>other way of confidently batch-processing from color to B&W for
>"everyday" shots? I'll be printing with the Epson 1280 onto Epson
>Heavyweight Matte (and then Enhanced Matte, once all my Heavyweight runs
>out) with UltraTone Inks from MIS and Paul Roark's workflow.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike

Thanks, Paul.  I had read your remarks about the UT curves for the 
1280 somehow not encountering the "stairstepping" gradation that the 
VM curves did.  Weird, but we're not complaining!  :-)

But my original question remains unanswered:  How does the UT inkset 
differ from the VM set, particularly regarding the look of the 
prints, the black density, and tendency towards nozzle clog 
problems?  Is UT stable now for matte printing?  There was some 
contradictory information on the MIS website, some pages saying it 
was experimental and in bulk only, and others saying cartridges are 
now available.

Has anyone out there made the switch from VM to Ultratone, and are 
you happy you did?

--Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> Paul Roark wrote:

> > The 1290 curves were probably better than the 1280 curves for the 
VM 
> > inkset.
> > For the UT inkset, the 1280 UT curves are the best.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com  

> > Peter A. Klein wrote:
> >
> > > How do the MIS Ultratone hextone inks compare to the VM 
(Variable
> > > Mix) inksets?  My cartridges will run out soon, and I'm 
wondering
> > > whether to switch from VM to Ultratone.
> > >
> > > I've been printing with VM for some time on an Epson 1280, 
using the
> > > 1290 driver (which prints with smoother gradation) and Paul 
Roarke's
> > > 1290 curves.  I use prefilled cartridges.  I'm reasonably happy 
with
> > > the VM inks. Things I'd like to improve:
> > >
> > > 1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
> > > printing B&W with color inks.
> > >
> > > 2. It would be nice to go back to the 1280 driver.
> > >
> > > 3. Proneness to clogging.  I have experienced some clogging 
with the
> > > VM inks after not printing for a week.  Most took just a 
cleaning
> > > cycle to clear up, but I had a "clog from hell" recently that
> > > required Windex and hot water injections to clear. (And thanks 
to
> > > everyone who helped me with that recently).
> > >
> > > I print matte now. I wouldn't mind trying something glossier at 
some
> > > point. When I printed in a chemical darkroom, I used mostly 
glossy
> > > paper without ferrotyping, or the old Kodak N "smooth" fiber 
papers.

> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > --Peter Klein
> > > Seattle, WA

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sommers 

> The hardest part for me is converting my images from color to B&W. 
I go 
> into the channel mixer and usually come out with 40% green and 60% 
red, 
> or vice versa... but there are so many combinations that 
technically 
> "work." I'm constantly secong-guessing myself.
> 
> Most importantly, I'd like to set up a Photoshop action that will 
> quickly convert hundreds of images from color to B&W... Does 
anybody 
> have a recommendation for a basic setting in the channel mixer? or 
some 
> other way of confidently batch-processing from color to B&W for 
> "everyday" shots? I'll be printing with the Epson 1280 onto Epson 
> Heavyweight Matte (and then Enhanced Matte, once all my Heavyweight 
runs 
> out) with UltraTone Inks from MIS and Paul Roark's workflow.
> 

Mike, BW conversion is what I do most of the times here. I dont know 
what type of shots you do most, but for myself I found out that one 
setting would not work for all photos - specially if I want a 
good "black and white" look. As we dont have colors as an expression 
in our  photos, everything lies in the different tones of grey and 
the contrasts. If your photos come out contrasty from the beginning, 
it might be easier with a general channel mixer setting - or even the 
simple "PS convert to bit grey"command. For portraits its useful to 
slightly enhance the red channel to give a softer look to the faces, 
if there is too low contrast however the green channel is better to 
enhance. 

You can build 2 or 3 standard actions and once you get a feeling 
which one is appropriate for which photo, batch apply different 
actions to a group of photos.

Most difficult in b&w are flat indoor portraits made without flash - 
when you enhance the contrasts they easily start to look very 
unhealthy :-)
If you need the channel settings for green and red enhancements, let 
me know - I will check the numbers out and tell you.

regards Bernie

Peter,

>...How does the UT inkset differ from the VM set, 
>particularly regarding the look of the prints,

This is subjective, so I was going to let others answer.  Here are a couple
of things that come to mind for me.  First, I like the neutral/"selenium"
look of the UT inkset neutral curve.  The VM was 0.04 cold at first to
offset expected warming of 0.08.   Second, the UT inkset can go considerably
warmer than the VM inkset.  

> the black density,

On EEM, the Eboni is darker than the VM K.

> and tendency towards nozzle clog problems?

MIS was eager to get rid of the VM K because the co-solvent evaporated
through the CFS tubing.  Supposedly that would be eliminated with the Eboni
black.  One negative is that Eboni is more sensitive to dyes.  I have had a
little trouble getting Eboni started on both a 1280 and 3000.  With the
1280, I thought the rinsing of the parking pads with Windex to clean off the
dyes from the OEM inkset did the trick.  With the 3000, just letting it sit
and print for a while took care of the problem.   I suspect it was air in
the ink.  On both printers the Eboni settled down in a couple of days and
has been fine.  Aside from those 2 issues, the inkset had been clog-free.

 > Is UT stable now for matte printing?

I think so.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
______________________________
  
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> Paul Roark wrote:

> > The 1290 curves were probably better than the 1280 curves for the 
VM 
> > inkset.
> > For the UT inkset, the 1280 UT curves are the best.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com  

> > Peter A. Klein wrote:
> >
> > > How do the MIS Ultratone hextone inks compare to the VM 
(Variable
> > > Mix) inksets?  My cartridges will run out soon, and I'm 
wondering
> > > whether to switch from VM to Ultratone.
> > >
> > > I've been printing with VM for some time on an Epson 1280, 
using the
> > > 1290 driver (which prints with smoother gradation) and Paul 
Roarke's
> > > 1290 curves.  I use prefilled cartridges.  I'm reasonably happy 
with
> > > the VM inks. Things I'd like to improve:
> > >
> > > 1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
> > > printing B&W with color inks.
> > >
> > > 2. It would be nice to go back to the 1280 driver.
> > >
> > > 3. Proneness to clogging.  I have experienced some clogging 
with the
> > > VM inks after not printing for a week.  Most took just a 
cleaning
> > > cycle to clear up, but I had a "clog from hell" recently that
> > > required Windex and hot water injections to clear. (And thanks 
to
> > > everyone who helped me with that recently).
> > >
> > > I print matte now. I wouldn't mind trying something glossier at 
some
> > > point. When I printed in a chemical darkroom, I used mostly 
glossy
> > > paper without ferrotyping, or the old Kodak N "smooth" fiber 
papers.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > --Peter Klein
> > > Seattle, WA




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 


 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

*-Interesting to follow the discussion about settings in the PS 
channel mixer.

I started out using a suggested generic mix  of 30/60/10 and find 
that to be a very good starting point.  (tutorial @ 
www.lumika.org/gear photoshop channel mixer.html) When you 
select  the mixer, it is default set to 100% red. I assume that 
would be what grayscale is, but I  could be wrong.  It surprised 
me that my images look better without  strongly favoring the red 
channel, since I have been doing mostly outdoor White Sands 
New Mexico scenics with white texture sand, deep blue skies 
and  puffy white clouds. I seem to get the best mix by leaving the 
blue at 10% and juggling the red & green. Sometimes the clouds 
are helped with a little more red 40/50/10  Whenever I go back to 
make a comparison with graybit, I always like my mix better.


                 Lincoln


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie 
Ess" <albatros-@g...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mike 
Sommers 
> 
> > The hardest part for me is converting my images from color 
to B&W. 
> I go 
> > into the channel mixer and usually come out with 40% green 
and 60% 
> red, 
> > or vice versa... but there are so many combinations that 
> technically 
> > "work." I'm constantly secong-guessing myself.
> > 
> > Most importantly, I'd like to set up a Photoshop action that will 
> > quickly convert hundreds of images from color to B&W... 
Does 
> anybody 
> > have a recommendation for a basic setting in the channel 
mixer? or 
> some 
> > other way of confidently batch-processing from color to B&W 
for 
> > "everyday" shots? I'll be printing with the Epson 1280 onto 
Epson 
> > Heavyweight Matte (and then Enhanced Matte, once all my 
Heavyweight 
> runs 
> > out) with UltraTone Inks from MIS and Paul Roark's workflow.
> > 
> 
> Mike, BW conversion is what I do most of the times here. I dont 
know 
> what type of shots you do most, but for myself I found out that 
one 
> setting would not work for all photos - specially if I want a 
> good "black and white" look. As we dont have colors as an 
expression 
> in our  photos, everything lies in the different tones of grey and 
> the contrasts. If your photos come out contrasty from the 
beginning, 
> it might be easier with a general channel mixer setting - or 
even the 
> simple "PS convert to bit grey"command. For portraits its useful 
to 
> slightly enhance the red channel to give a softer look to the 
faces, 
> if there is too low contrast however the green channel is better 
to 
> enhance. 
> 
> You can build 2 or 3 standard actions and once you get a 
feeling 
> which one is appropriate for which photo, batch apply different 
> actions to a group of photos.
> 
> Most difficult in b&w are flat indoor portraits made without flash 
- 
> when you enhance the contrasts they easily start to look very 
> unhealthy :-)
> If you need the channel settings for green and red 
enhancements, let 

> me know - I will check the numbers out and tell you.
> 
> regards Bernie

Kip Babington wrote:

>Have you taken a look at Convert BW Pro from 
><http://www.theimagingfactory.com/>http://www.theimagingfactory.com/ ?   
>

I'd also Highly recommend taking a look at the SilverOxide filters at:

http://www.silveroxide.com


The native 16 bit version availability, as well as Carbonized OS X 
versions are plusses for many users..



 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hello

two quick things:

http://www.inkjetgoodies.com/main/psactions.htm
that is a link to a free plugin that works pretty well
for converting color to b&w, it always needs a tweek
or two, but it generally works for me.

also check
http://www.russellbrown.com/
then go to the "Seeing in Black & White" section,
there is a useful tutorial on cnverting to bw.

UT ink is much better than VM for a bunch of reasons,
i use a CIS with a 1200 and hasn't clogged yet. it
prints smoother, its more permanent, VM used to band
on my printer, UT doesn't, it has nice tone. I use it
with QTR but it also works great with EEM and Photo
Rag with Paul's VM curves. I would never go back to
VM.

sweet
john e 

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

Peter,

Why did you not stay with printing in b/w with color inks?  Just curious.

Lance

>
>1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
>printing B&W with color inks.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline?  The classic country stars are 
always singing on MSN Radio Plus.  Try one month free!  
http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio

> UT ink is much better than VM for a bunch of reasons,
> i use a CIS with a 1200 and hasn't clogged yet. > 
> sweet
> john e 

I've been getting better nozzle checks with the UT inkset on an Epson 
1160 with CIS than when I was using the FS-N inkset. 
Cheers,
Andre

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter A. Klein [mailto:pklein@...] 
<snip>
> Has anyone out there made the switch from VM to Ultratone, and are 
> you happy you did?

     I attempted it, but experienced clogging with the inks and
solarized looking prints with the new UT curves.  I hesitate to even
bring it up, because so many other people have made the switch
successfully that I wonder what happened in my specific case.  But you
asked, so I'd be less than honest if I didn't report it.  I went back to
VM which I'm still very happy with.
     I am paying close attention to your posts and others who are in
similar situations to me, using a digital SLR, and 1280 to print B&W.
Once I feel almost everyone is happy with the UT for some period, I'll
probably try it again and see what happens.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

In the time I used the VM inks, I never got a good print from them. 
Trying different settings, 1290 drivers and curves (for my 1280). 
Nothing worked, all I got was posterized prints. The UT inks and 
curves worked great right from the start. I'm in the middle of 
modifying the curves and ink adjustments in the Epson driver to get a 
bit more of the tones I'm looking for. 

For a bit I messed around with the Duotone mode in PS and printing 
with Epson color inks. I got some really neat results playing with 
different tritone and quadtone sets. BUT, the color casts of the 
inks/driver is so unpredictable. My opinion is unless you have 
everything hardware calibrated or running a RIP, using color inks for 
b&w consumes too much time and resources. 

matt

Paul,

Epson wouldn't like to hear this, but I've primed
virgin 1280's and 860's with Eboni.  It was a much
better solution than trying to eradicate all the dye
content from the pads.  My mind keeps drifting to an
1160 that I was trying to use Eboni in after using
FS-K...  What a nightmare. 

Don

-- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> I have had a
> little trouble getting Eboni started on both a 1280
> and 3000.  

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

Hi Peter,

Before moving to ImagePrint and using my Epson 2200 for both color and B&W,
I had migrated my Epson 1160, using Paul's curves and workflow, from the VM
inkset to the new (at the time!) UltraTones. I was very satisfied with my
initial results and even more so after receiving the latest curves from
Paul. You also get longer lasting images to boot! Great inkset, IMHO.

FWIW the UT inkset seemed to be slightly (and I mean ever so slightly) more
prone to clogging in my 1160. However, a couple of cleaning cycles with
nozzle checks and I was always good to go. As for matte printing, I pretty
much use EEM and PR, exclusively.

Hope this helps.

Alan Huntley

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Peter A. Klein" <pklein@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] VM vs. Ultratone


> But my original question remains unanswered:  How does the UT inkset
> differ from the VM set, particularly regarding the look of the
> prints, the black density, and tendency towards nozzle clog
> problems?  Is UT stable now for matte printing?  There was some
> contradictory information on the MIS website, some pages saying it
> was experimental and in bulk only, and others saying cartridges are
> now available.
>
> Has anyone out there made the switch from VM to Ultratone, and are
> you happy you did?

Lance:  Because B&W prints with color inks always had some subtle 
green or magenta color cast somewhere.  What's more, the color casts 
varied with the density of the gray.  Rather than start messing with 
expensive profiling, and have things change a few months later 
anyway, I discovered this group, and started doing quadtones.

--Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lance 
Funderburk" <l_funderburk@h...> wrote:
> Peter,
> 
> Why did you not stay with printing in b/w with color inks?  Just 
curious.

> 
> Lance
> 
> >
> >1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
> >printing B&W with color inks.

Peter, 
Sorry but this is just not the case using a Rip on the Epson 2200, 
7600, 9600 range of printers and Ultachrome color inks. I use the 
FREE QTR rip and get prints without any kind of color cast. If you 
email me your address I will send you one to see for yourself if you 
like.

Sierra Gold-

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Klein" 
<pklein@2...> wrote:
> Lance:  Because B&W prints with color inks always had some subtle 
> green or magenta color cast somewhere.  What's more, the color 
casts 
> varied with the density of the gray.  Rather than start messing 
with 

> expensive profiling, and have things change a few months later 
> anyway, I discovered this group, and started doing quadtones.
> 
> --Peter
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lance 
> Funderburk" <l_funderburk@h...> wrote:
> > Peter,
> > 
> > Why did you not stay with printing in b/w with color inks?  Just 
> curious.
> > 
> > Lance
> > 
> > >
> > >1.  The density of the blacks, which are not as good as I got
> > >printing B&W with color inks.

Is this possibly a case where the pigmented inks do not give a color cast 
while the dye-based inks do?  Does anyone have a profile that works with 
dye-based printers (1280, 960)?  Thanks.

Lance
>
>Peter,
>Sorry but this is just not the case using a Rip on the Epson 2200,
>7600, 9600 range of printers and Ultachrome color inks. I use the
>FREE QTR rip and get prints without any kind of color cast. If you
>email me your address I will send you one to see for yourself if you
>like.
>
>Sierra Gold-

_________________________________________________________________
From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, you\ufffdll find a 
range of helpful holiday info here.  
http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx

Does anyone have a QTR profile that works with the 1270 dye based 
inks or at least know if this is possible for B&W ?

Thanks
Tim

>Is this possibly a case where the pigmented inks do not give a color cast
>while the dye-based inks do?  Does anyone have a profile that works with
>dye-based printers (1280, 960)?  Thanks.
>
>Lance
>>
>>Peter,
>>Sorry but this is just not the case using a Rip on the Epson 2200,
>>7600, 9600 range of printers and Ultachrome color inks. I use the
>>FREE QTR rip and get prints without any kind of color cast. If you
>>email me your address I will send you one to see for yourself if you
>>like.
>>
>  >Sierra Gold-

Tim,

If you want to use a 6 ink color ink printer for B&W you have two
choices,  just use the black ink, or use black plus mixing color inks
to get gray.  Both of those choices are available with the Epson
driver so I can't see much benefit from using QTR in this case.
The 7-ink printers are different in that there's a light-black which
allows an additional usage of inks that the Epson driver doesn't
give you.

Roy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tim Goodwin <tgvoz@p...> 
wrote:

> Does anyone have a QTR profile that works with the 1270 dye based 
> inks or at least know if this is possible for B&W ?
> 
> Thanks
> Tim
> 
> >Is this possibly a case where the pigmented inks do not give a color cast
> >while the dye-based inks do?  Does anyone have a profile that works with
> >dye-based printers (1280, 960)?  Thanks.
> >
> >Lance
> >>
> >>Peter,
> >>Sorry but this is just not the case using a Rip on the Epson 2200,
> >>7600, 9600 range of printers and Ultachrome color inks. I use the
> >>FREE QTR rip and get prints without any kind of color cast. If you
> >>email me your address I will send you one to see for yourself if you
> >>like.
> >>
> >  >Sierra Gold-