Digital BW, The Print

Hey,
I've been lurking around here for a couple of days and reading the many
messages through the digest. Unfortunately, I've become overwhelmed.
 
I love the look of Ilford multigrade IV RC (pearl) paper in the chemical
darkroom. But, I'm tired of hunching over my bathtub. Not only that, but I
don't print often enough and have to toss old chemicals and buy fresh. This
becomes time consuming and inconvenient. (mostly 'cause I have to clean the
bathroom before and after)
 
Simply put, I would like to get my Epson 1270 printer to print nice black
and white prints. Currently I have the Epson inks. I have lots of paper
brands, but not the Epson Archival/Matte stuff, just regular matte. Not the
Photo Rag stuff or Somerset Velvet either. I've got Ilford, Epson, Red
River, etc. I'll get what I need with whatever inks that I finally buy. So
let me know if you reply and suggest an ink that would go with my printer
(1270), then mention the paper too.
 
So, to the inks:
The Cones Piezography is too expensive for me. So, I got excited when I saw
Lyson's inks in my price range. Then I read about the MIS Quadtone inks. I
read something bad about Lyson w/Epson (but can't remember now) and was
turned towards the MIS system. I nearly bought the MIS Quadtone, but I made
the mistake of reading more stuff (Ultratone) and am treading water. Now I'm
reading about black only (BO) printing using Eboni. Then I read about UT-2.
It took me a couple of days to figure out UT-2 is the new version of
UltraTone, which will be out in a couple of weeks. Then I got confused about
UltraTone (blacks) and UltraChrome (color?). In which some people are making
b/w prints with UltraChrome.
 
AGH!!!
 
Okay, there must be more than one way to skin a cat. But, I only want to
skin ONE cat and not the whole dang neighborhood!!!
 
Here's stuff I might be confused about:
MIS UT - doesn't do a good job on glossy? But great on Epson Archival matte
MIS UT-2 - might be good on glossy? and matte
Either way, majority of my b/w prints will be on matte. But, I suppose there
will be occasions for glossy.
 
MIS UT (both 1 & 2) is pigment (carbon) not dye and can supposedly be used
w/o buying cleaning cartridges 'cause they are the same alkalinity as Epson
inks...(sounds good, but seems weird if I'm taking dye inks out and putting
pigment in)
MIS UT-2 lasts longer than UT-1 or about the same? Did I read that last post
correctly of 200 years. Heck, that'll work for me!
MIS UT (both 1 & 2) is better than the MIS Quadtone? I don't remember why, I
just read something and stored the basics in my brain.
 
On the Black Only (BO) printing, is that only done with Eboni ink? Who makes
it? Epson doesn't make it for the 1270.
I've tried BO with my regular Epson black and wasn't exactly thrilled with
the results. I tried mixing with colors too and get obvious color (greenish
on semi-matte) in my prints. I like Sepia (sometimes), but would much prefer
a neutral black for most of my printing.
Does this BO work with the MIS system? I don't think they make Eboni for the
1270. Maybe they do? I lost the webpage.
The BO printing last a long time too?
 
Hypothetically if I were to hang these prints in a gallery....what would be
my best option (besides chemical darkroom and Cones Piezo.)?
If I where to sell these prints, what would give me peace-of-mind knowing
that I'm giving my customer a good print?
 
I have Photoshop (and I'm not afraid to use it.)
 
I also have an Epson 785 EPX (but I'd like to keep that one color 'cause I
tend to bring it traveling occasionally)
 
I can't afford the 2200 or 2000 or whatever that thing is. Besides, my
boyfriend would have a conniption fit if I bought ANOTHER printer!
 
So, I'd really appreciate it if I could get some help to clear up my clogged
head. Please keep your reply in non-technical terms - and thanks in advance
for replying. Once I decide on some kind of system, then I'll anxiously
purchase and then delve deeper to learn what I need to know (curves or
whatever).
 
I guess I'm torn between the two systems (MIS UT or BO) and am wondering if
I'm leaving another option out. I'm not to keen on using color to make a
black and white print. But, I can be persuaded (with proof).
 
Oh, the only color calibrating software I have besides Adobe Gamma is
Colorific (I think that's what it's called)...but I can't find the little
blue card thingy...so adobe gamma will be it unless I find that card. I also
have a flatbed (Espon 2450) and a film scanner (Minolta Dimage Dual). I
don't trust my eyes on the color calibrating thing and wish that one day I'd
get that spyder or other color calibrating thingy-ma-jig that sticks on the
monitor.
 
I guess that's enough for now. I think I gave y'all enough info about me so
that somebody can help me out.
 
Thanks,
Barbara
 
 
 
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Barbara, 

welcome to the list and the chaos we have to deal with.  Yeah, I see how the 
whole thing looks confusing up front. Take a deep breath as well as good 
notes (!) from all the info you'll gather. 

Also, remember that nothing beats looking at actual prints which means that if 
you are in a city where others are making or exhibiting digital BW prints, you 
may be advised to look at them in person. 

A couple of general issues:

- the matte vs glossy thing is a big issue and really there is no good glossy 
without coating and without possibly sacrificing archival life of the print. If you 
print matte and want stable prints stick to archival matte papers (coated for 
inkjet). they are more expensive, but useful for final prints. Epson Archival 
Matte (EAM) is good for proofs.

- the software ("print driver") issue is also big. Pick an operating system and 
ask away. Your ink choices may very well depend on your software choices.

- if you didn't like Black Only printing with OEM black, I doubt you'll like it with 
anyone else's black ink. Life of print depends on life of ink.

- All MIS and Piezotone inks are pigment based. Do not use dyes unless you 
are doing proofs or short-life portfolios.

- flush carts are a good idea to have around anyway and to use for the initial 
change to gray inks.

- Continuous Iink Systems: you didn't say if you are looking for carts or CIS.  
The latter are good and save $$ but if you leave them idle (for longer than, 
say,  a week) you'll have to burn through some paper to refresh the lines.

- Good  papers for matte prints are made by Hahnemuehle, Legion, Moab, 
Hawk meadow and others. Usually people take into account the maximum 
black you can get on them based on your inks and software - besides other 
aspects of the paper (color, texture etc).

- Toning: some inksets provide for colored inks (sepia, selenium etc) that can 
be mixed in the print by the software. If you are new to all this, try a regular 
grayscale inkset first. Your 1270 has 6 positions - you only need 4 to make a 
great grayscale print.

- Archival issues: depends on your ink and paper. We can only go by 
manufacturers claims and whatever Wilhelm puts out occasionally. Read for 
yourself. I use Hahnemuehle (German Etching, Photo Rag etc) or Moab 
(Entrada FA) papers with Piezotones and feel it's as good as it's going to get 
until we ("they") find out for real 100 years from now (!!).

to some of your questions:...



....

> MIS UT (both 1 & 2) is better than the MIS Quadtone?

I haven't used the UTs myself, but expect UTs to be better than older 
technologies (FS etc) in lightfastness. 




> On the Black Only (BO) printing, is that only done with Eboni ink? 

No (see above).

Who makes
> it? 

Anything with a name other than Epson is aftermarket. Eboni is by MIS. 

>  
> Hypothetically if I were to hang these prints in a gallery....what would be
> my best option (besides chemical darkroom and Cones Piezo.)?


Piezotones would be top on my list, but MIS inks are every bit as good, though 
different in their approach.  Frankly, we now have pretty good ink technologies 
to choose from, so the bigger issue is software. I use Inkjet Control to make 
profiles and Open Printmaker (IJC/OPM) to print from. They have been 
available at bowhaus.com for Mac OS 9 for some time, but there is an OS X 
version about to come out with several enhancements. 
As you are (painfully) aware here, many others have chosen alternates based 
on price, operating system and personal preferences and abilities.  You may 
be better off asking what's best to drive your 1270 (and disclose your OS).

So... take two aspirins and ask us again in the morning.

<BG>

Antonis

> Open Printmaker (IJC/OPM) to print from. They have been 
> available at bowhaus.com for Mac OS 9 for some time, but there is
> an OS X version about to come out with several enhancements

Oh damn !  Just after I convert my Mac to OSX, upgrade to Photoshop
CS, and download and install all the QuadtoneRIP stuff.  (But I am
very glad to be on OSX anyhow, it rules).

Can  you say what these enhancements will be, when it is likely to
be released, what the pricing structure will be ?

Thanks, John

P.S.  I don't know if you have ever noticed, but if you go to
www.bowhaus.com, there is no link to the OPM/IJC stuff.  You have
to know to add "/inkjetcontrol" to the URL.  If they're serious 
about selling this stuff, it might be worth making it visible from
the home page !

Antonis,
Thanks for the warm welcome!

Oh, I guess I forgot (maybe out of embarrasement) that my OS is 
Windows 98.....Yeah, I'm due for a new computer. Next year hopefully.

I guess I use the Epson driver.

Barbara

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Hi Barbara, 
(snip)
  You may 
> be better off asking what's best to drive your 1270 (and disclose 
your OS).

> 
> So... take two aspirins and ask us again in the morning.
> 
> <BG>
> 
> Antonis

Barbara,

Welcome.  I am a newbie too, although less so than you.  Yes, it is
very overwhelming to grasp what is going on here, because of the
level of sophistication of most of the folks and the inherent
confusingness of this whole digital B&W printing issue. Fortunately
people are very patient and helpful.  I'll pay dues for all the 
people who've helped me and try to summarize what I've learned.
Hopefully I will be corrected if I mis-state ...

First, since your printer is dye-based, you cannot get archival
prints without changing inks.  You will also not be able to get
satisfactory results without getting some additonal software
(instead of the Epson driver).

In my opinion, the UltraTone inks are the way to go.  Ok,
I've never used them.  But they are very highly
thought of here and I plan to try them soon.  But the MAIN reason
I'd recommend the UT inks is that there seems to be a lot of
support for using them with the two excellent and free after-market
print drivers that are available.  These are QuadToneRIP (QTR) and
OPM/IJC.  The former runs only under Mac-OSX and Linux.  The latter
runs only under Mac-OS9, but an OSX version is rumored to be on the
way.  Also, with QTR, you need Version 7 or CS of Photoshop (it will
not work running Version 6 or earlier under Classic mode).

I don't think you mentioned what sort of computer you are using.
If you are on a PC, you have a dilemna, with 3 unpleasant ways out:
get a cheap Mac to run OPM/IJC or QTR;  load Linux on your PC; or
spring for $500 or so for ImagePrint (another after-market driver).

My plan, partially implemented, is to run QuadToneRIP (and maybe
OPM/IJC when it comes out) on my Mac G4 running OSX and Photoshop-CS.
These give quite nice results with Epson's UltraChrome inks (but
alas, you don't have access to those).  But when the UT-2 inks
become available, I'll probably switch to those.  The cartidges
appear to be about the same price as the Epson UltraChrome ones.

Then there's the whole issue of what paper to use.  Epson Enhanced
Matte (aka. Archival Matte, and abbreviated EEM and/or EAM) is 
nice looking and cheap and a great way to start.  But supposedly it
yellows fairly quickly.  Hahnemuhle PhotoRag is much better but
insanely expensive.  Supposedly Moab Entrada is a great compromise
of quality and price but I haven't tried it (yet).  These are all
matte papers, which I think look great. Glossier papers are
problematic, but supposedly UT-2 will work better on them.  There's
also a variety of sprays, and a polyurethane coating technique, to
give a glossier finish to the matte papers; but that's a whole 
'nother discussion.

Hope this helps.

John

John,

the previous (OS 9) version was more like a market test to see what people 
had to say about it, hence the rather hidden page and general lack of 
marketing. That version still works fine for the printers it supports and makes 
for a good demo.

I don't know when the OS X version will be released or what the pricing will 
be. You may ask directly at bowhaus.

I have been beta testing the new version. The basic operation is the same as 
before; the enhancements have to do with trying to make it easier to make a 
profile for novice users, as well as making it possible to use a scanner instead 
of a densitometer. Until it's ready for prime time, though, I can't quite tell you 
the details because they may change.


Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johngeyles" 
<jge@c...> wrote:

> > Open Printmaker (IJC/OPM) to print from. They have been 
> > available at bowhaus.com for Mac OS 9 for some time, but there is
> > an OS X version about to come out with several enhancements
> 
> Oh damn !  Just after I convert my Mac to OSX, upgrade to Photoshop
> CS, and download and install all the QuadtoneRIP stuff.  (But I am
> very glad to be on OSX anyhow, it rules).
> 
> Can  you say what these enhancements will be, when it is likely to
> be released, what the pricing structure will be ?
> 
> Thanks, John
> 
> P.S.  I don't know if you have ever noticed, but if you go to
> www.bowhaus.com, there is no link to the OPM/IJC stuff.  You have
> to know to add "/inkjetcontrol" to the URL.  If they're serious 
> about selling this stuff, it might be worth making it visible from
> the home page !

Barbara,

take a look at our Links section (at the group home page). We have a folder 
for suppliers (4th down). You may find options for  Windows drivers there.
Also, Paul Roark has been designing curves to work with select printers and 
MIS inks when you use the Epson driver.

Good luck!

Antonis


> Oh, I guess I forgot (maybe out of embarrasement) that my OS is 
> Windows 98.....Yeah, I'm due for a new computer. Next year hopefully.

Barbara,
Hello and welcome!
As others have stated, there is a alot to overwelm ones self in this 
forum. But I have gotten more helpful and usful information from this 
forum on printing, than from any of the other forums out there. There 
are some(alot of) very knowledgable B&W inkjet printers that bring
(freely, I might add) some top notch info, so hang on. The trip is 
well worth it! As to the MIS inks, I started with the original 
hextone set and have moved on to the UltraTones using Paul Roarks 
curves, and love them. The original Quadtones(Hextones for the 6 ink 
printers)produced prints that were too warm for my liking. So when I 
started reading about Pauls work with the UT inks, I followed along. 
When they became available, and my inksupply was coming to an end, I 
ordered the UT's. In my short(about 2 years)experience in B&W inkjet 
printing, I am sold on these inks. I have done B&W darkroom printing 
for about 30 years, and am very pleased with what these inks can do. 
If you want a very good inkset, very reasonably priced, that can 
produce a very good neutral B&W, then the MIS Ultratones are the way 
to go. With the UT inks using the eboni, you HAVE to print on matte 
papers, as eboni and glossy don't go together. Since you are keeping 
a printer for color, I'm assuming that the 1270 will be dedicated to 
B&W. The MIS UT's could be loaded into carts for you 1270 or you 
could use a CIS(Continous Inking System). I use the 1200 for my B&W, 
which precided your 1270, so the 1270 will do a good job for you. As 
for papers, I have a stock pile of Eclipse, which is no longer 
available but has been replaced with MOAB papers. Basically, you want 
a good 100% cotton or rag paper with little to no Optical Brighting 
Agents, or OBA's. There are many brands to look at and just as many 
fine papers to choose from. Alot comes down to the whiteness and 
texture of a type of paper and of course price range. I went thru the 
trouble to put together a notebook with paper samples from various 
paper suppliers, so that I can get an idea of how the paper may feel 
or how white it may be. You'd be surprised at the different whites 
that are available.
A side note: UltraTone inks are MIS(a 3rd party vendor)B&W inkset.
             UltraChrome inks are Epson propritary COLOR inks for
             2200 and larger printers. 
I hope that was of some help. Again, welcome to a great group!

KeithR
  
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Lee 
Spinnenweber <bspinnenweber@t...> wrote:
>  Unfortunately, I've become overwhelmed.
>  
> Simply put, I would like to get my Epson 1270 printer to print nice 
black
> and white prints. Currently I have the Epson inks. I have lots of 
paper
> brands, but not the Epson Archival/Matte stuff, just regular matte. 
Not the
> Photo Rag stuff or Somerset Velvet either. I've got Ilford, Epson, 
Red
> River, etc. I'll get what I need with whatever inks that I finally 
buy. So
> let me know if you reply and suggest an ink that would go with my 
printer
> (1270), then mention the paper too.
>  
> So, to the inks:
> > turned towards the MIS system. I nearly bought the MIS Quadtone, 
but I made
> the mistake of reading more stuff (Ultratone) and am treading 
water. Now I'm
> reading about black only (BO) printing using Eboni. Then I read 
about UT-2.
> It took me a couple of days to figure out UT-2 is the new version of
> UltraTone, which will be out in a couple of weeks. Then I got 
confused about
> UltraTone (blacks) and UltraChrome (color?). In which some people 
are making
> b/w prints with UltraChrome.
>  
> AGH!!!
>  
>
> MIS UT - doesn't do a good job on glossy? But great on Epson 
Archival matte
> MIS UT-2 - might be good on glossy? and matte
> Either way, majority of my b/w prints will be on matte. But, I 
suppose there
> will be occasions for glossy.
>  
> MIS UT (both 1 & 2) is pigment (carbon) not dye and can supposedly 
be used
> w/o buying cleaning cartridges 'cause they are the same alkalinity 
as Epson
> inks...(sounds good, but seems weird if I'm taking dye inks out and 
putting
> pigment in)
> MIS UT-2 lasts longer than UT-1 or about the same? Did I read that 
last post
> correctly of 200 years. Heck, that'll work for me!
> MIS UT (both 1 & 2) is better than the MIS Quadtone? I don't 
remember why, I
> just read something and stored the basics in my brain.
>  
> On the Black Only (BO) printing, is that only done with Eboni ink? 
Who makes
> it? Epson doesn't make it for the 1270.
> I've tried BO with my regular Epson black and wasn't exactly 
thrilled with
> the results. I tried mixing with colors too and get obvious color 
(greenish
> on semi-matte) in my prints. I like Sepia (sometimes), but would 
much prefer
> a neutral black for most of my printing.
> Does this BO work with the MIS system? I don't think they make 
Eboni for the
> 1270. Maybe they do? I lost the webpage.
> The BO printing last a long time too?
>  
> Hypothetically if I were to hang these prints in a gallery....what 
would be
> my best option (besides chemical darkroom and Cones Piezo.)?
> If I where to sell these prints, what would give me peace-of-mind 
knowing
> that I'm giving my customer a good print?
>  
> I have Photoshop (and I'm not afraid to use it.)
>  
> I also have an Epson 785 EPX (but I'd like to keep that one 
color 'cause I
> tend to bring it traveling occasionally)
>  
> I can't afford the 2200 or 2000 or whatever that thing is. Besides, 
my
> boyfriend would have a conniption fit if I bought ANOTHER printer!
>  
> So, I'd really appreciate it if I could get some help to clear up 
my clogged
> head. Please keep your reply in non-technical terms - and thanks in 
advance
> for replying. Once I decide on some kind of system, then I'll 
anxiously
> purchase and then delve deeper to learn what I need to know (curves 
or
> whatever).
>  
> I guess I'm torn between the two systems (MIS UT or BO) and am 
wondering if
> I'm leaving another option out. I'm not to keen on using color to 
make a
> black and white print. But, I can be persuaded (with proof).
>  
> Oh, the only color calibrating software I have besides Adobe Gamma 
is
> Colorific (I think that's what it's called)...but I can't find the 
little
> blue card thingy...so adobe gamma will be it unless I find that 
card. I also
> have a flatbed (Espon 2450) and a film scanner (Minolta Dimage 
Dual). I
> don't trust my eyes on the color calibrating thing and wish that 
one day I'd
> get that spyder or other color calibrating thingy-ma-jig that 
sticks on the
> monitor.
>  
> I guess that's enough for now. I think I gave y'all enough info 
about me so

> that somebody can help me out.
>  
> Thanks,
> Barbara
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Barbara,

>I'm tired of hunching over my bathtub. 

Understood!  (been there <g>).


>I would like to get my Epson 1270 printer to print nice black
>and white prints. 

I used an 870 for a long time, just a smaller version of the 1270. 
The black cart is the same as the 1280 black cart, so the MIS Eboni
ink can be used in it (Eboni is the black ink in the UT set).  I'm not
sure about the other inks in the UT set, whether they are available in
a 1270 color cart.  If not, then none of the UT approaches you read
about here (other than BO) will be available to you.

I first began doing BO printing on the 870 (4pl droplets with 1440
dpi) and the results are quite good in terms of Dmax, luminance, tonal
gradation, etc, but you have to like the somewhat grainy appearance. 
The newer printers such as 1280 and 2200 have higher resolution (2880
dpi) and can produce better quality BO prints (still not as smooth as
the dotless systems).  The advantage of using Eboni is that it is of
the newer generation of carbon inks and doesn't fade or color shift
like the older inks do, and it is the least warm of the other new
carbon inks.

If you don't like the BO look and want to make lasting prints then you
probably should consider another printer.  Basically the options are

1) c82 - letter size, about $100, will use the new MIS UT set soon to
be released, will be a no-brainer to use.

2) 1280 - 13x19", about $400 or so, will use UT or many other systems;
will use many different systems but requires more figuring and
tweaking

3) 2200 - 13x19", about $700, will use UT or Epson UC inks and various
RIPS, and also can use the new Septone system, a combination
software/grayscale ink system (very good quality, variable tone and
contrast, easy to use, but also expensive).


The new stable carbon inks are available in four flavors:

1) UC by Epson, for 2200/7600/4000

2) UT by MIS (has Eboni black) in bulk or carts for 1280/2200
     (the black 1280 cart will work in 870/1270)
   - and its variations, soon to be released for c82 and...whatever

3) PiezoTone by Piezography (has Museum black, very much like Eboni)
    in bulk or carts for 1280/2200/7600

4) Septone by Sundance, in bulk or carts for 2200/7600


  
>Okay, there must be more than one way to skin a cat. But, 
>I only want to skin ONE cat and not the whole dang neighborhood!!!

There are pros and cons to all of the above.  One good thing about BO
printing is that it doesn't require a commitment or investment to try
it, and you can be learning a lot about using photoshop and making
prints in general while you sort out all the rest.  I don't know if
you have seen the articles on my web site about it but the link at the
bottom of this msg will take you there.  If you start doing BO with
the 1270 and use Eboni on a good cotton paper you will be making
prints that will last as long as anything else, and you you will be
gaining  valuable experience and knowledge that will help in choosing
which other system to use.

  
>On the Black Only (BO) printing, is that only done with Eboni ink? 

Can be done with any ink, but Eboni has the advantages mentioned
above.


>Does this BO work with the MIS system? 
>The BO printing last a long time too?

The BO method is just a matter of telling the printer to use only the
black ink.  It is unrelated to any particular ink or system.  The
longevity of it depends on the ink and paper used, just like any other
method.



>If I were to sell these prints, what would give me peace-of-mind 
>knowing that I'm giving my customer a good print?

Use a stable ink and paper so it will last.  Beyond that, if you like
the print and the customer likes it...what else matters?



Have fun!

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Actually, 1280 carts will fit a 1270 so you can use the UT inks.

I think Paul recommends using the 1280 driver with it.

Chuck Peacock

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Clayton Jones [mailto:cj@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:45 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: B/W prints with Epson 1270


  Hello Barbara,

  >I'm tired of hunching over my bathtub.

  Understood!  (been there <g>).


  >I would like to get my Epson 1270 printer to print nice black
  >and white prints.

  I used an 870 for a long time, just a smaller version of the 1270.
  The black cart is the same as the 1280 black cart, so the MIS Eboni
  ink can be used in it (Eboni is the black ink in the UT set).  I'm not
  sure about the other inks in the UT set, whether they are available in
  a 1270 color cart.  If not, then none of the UT approaches you read
  about here (other than BO) will be available to you.

  I first began doing BO printing on the 870 (4pl droplets with 1440
  dpi) and the results are quite good in terms of Dmax, luminance, tonal
  gradation, etc, but you have to like the somewhat grainy appearance.
  The newer printers such as 1280 and 2200 have higher resolution (2880
  dpi) and can produce better quality BO prints (still not as smooth as
  the dotless systems).  The advantage of using Eboni is that it is of
  the newer generation of carbon inks and doesn't fade or color shift
  like the older inks do, and it is the least warm of the other new
  carbon inks.

  If you don't like the BO look and want to make lasting prints then you
  probably should consider another printer.  Basically the options are

  1) c82 - letter size, about $100, will use the new MIS UT set soon to
  be released, will be a no-brainer to use.

  2) 1280 - 13x19", about $400 or so, will use UT or many other systems;
  will use many different systems but requires more figuring and
  tweaking

  3) 2200 - 13x19", about $700, will use UT or Epson UC inks and various
  RIPS, and also can use the new Septone system, a combination
  software/grayscale ink system (very good quality, variable tone and
  contrast, easy to use, but also expensive).


  The new stable carbon inks are available in four flavors:

  1) UC by Epson, for 2200/7600/4000

  2) UT by MIS (has Eboni black) in bulk or carts for 1280/2200
       (the black 1280 cart will work in 870/1270)
     - and its variations, soon to be released for c82 and...whatever

  3) PiezoTone by Piezography (has Museum black, very much like Eboni)
      in bulk or carts for 1280/2200/7600

  4) Septone by Sundance, in bulk or carts for 2200/7600



  >Okay, there must be more than one way to skin a cat. But,
  >I only want to skin ONE cat and not the whole dang neighborhood!!!

  There are pros and cons to all of the above.  One good thing about BO
  printing is that it doesn't require a commitment or investment to try
  it, and you can be learning a lot about using photoshop and making
  prints in general while you sort out all the rest.  I don't know if
  you have seen the articles on my web site about it but the link at the
  bottom of this msg will take you there.  If you start doing BO with
  the 1270 and use Eboni on a good cotton paper you will be making
  prints that will last as long as anything else, and you you will be
  gaining  valuable experience and knowledge that will help in choosing
  which other system to use.


  >On the Black Only (BO) printing, is that only done with Eboni ink?

  Can be done with any ink, but Eboni has the advantages mentioned
  above.


  >Does this BO work with the MIS system?
  >The BO printing last a long time too?

  The BO method is just a matter of telling the printer to use only the
  black ink.  It is unrelated to any particular ink or system.  The
  longevity of it depends on the ink and paper used, just like any other
  method.



  >If I were to sell these prints, what would give me peace-of-mind
  >knowing that I'm giving my customer a good print?

  Use a stable ink and paper so it will last.  Beyond that, if you like
  the print and the customer likes it...what else matters?



  Have fun!

  Regards,
  Clayton


  Info on black and white digital printing at
  http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Chuck,

>Actually, 1280 carts will fit a 1270 so you can use the UT inks.
>I think Paul recommends using the 1280 driver with it.

Ok, I stand corrected, thanks for the info.  

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

John,

The quadtone rip is awesome--once you figure it out, printing is like 
any other in OSx.

-bruce

On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 03:15 PM, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Message: 25
>    Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:12:23 -0000
>    From: "johngeyles" <jge@...>
> Subject: Re: B/W prints with Epson 1270
>
>> Open Printmaker (IJC/OPM) to print from. They have been
>> available at bowhaus.com for Mac OS 9 for some time, but there is
>> an OS X version about to come out with several enhancements
>
> Oh damn !  Just after I convert my Mac to OSX, upgrade to Photoshop
> CS, and download and install all the QuadtoneRIP stuff.  (But I am
> very glad to be on OSX anyhow, it rules).
>
> Can  you say what these enhancements will be, when it is likely to
> be released, what the pricing structure will be ?
>
> Thanks, John