Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

I have a problem with a MIS cartridge that I am using with the UT 
inkset. The ink monitor tells me that the inks are 80% full, but a 
nozzle check shows no lines in the yellow position. I replaced the 
cardritge with an Epson original and noticed that the MIS cartridge is 
very light. All colors are fine with the Epson cartridge. I think that 
in the MIS cartridge the yellow-position is empty and the others are 
running low!

I refilled the cardridge a couple of weeks ago. Prior to that, when it 
was in the printer, the ink monitor was showing about 10%-20% ink for 
all colors, but I started to get bad nozzle checks that were getting 
worse (fast) with cleaning.  Originally I thought that it was clocking. 
However, before refilling I extracted the remaining ink from the 
cartridge. There was very little of it. So I thought that it was just 
that the sensors where not reliable and that my bad nozzle checks were 
due to insufficent ink in the cartridge.

However, now the cartridge seems to be empty again! Only about two weeks 
after reffiling the! During this time I think I have printed the 
equivalent of perhaps  four 13x19in. pages only.

Can someone tell me if the capacity of these cartridges is this low? Or 
perhaps the one I have is defective and should be replaced? I refilled 
it once after filling it the first time.

Thanks in advance!

Your friend in photography,
Manuel Toledo

Hello Manuel,

It may not be the ink getting low, but the cartridge could have a 
buildup of foam so that when you filled the first refill and the ink 
flowed out the vent hole appearing to be full, it was really not 
full. The overflow was foam buildup. Every other refill I always use 
a large syringe and tape over the vent holes and draw out all the 
foam and ink inside the chamber before refilling.

Your friend in Photography,

Johnny Eades


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Manuel Toledo 
<mtoledo@e...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a problem with a MIS cartridge that I am using with the UT 
> inkset. The ink monitor tells me that the inks are 80% full, but a 
> nozzle check shows no lines in the yellow position. I replaced the 
> cardritge with an Epson original and noticed that the MIS cartridge 
is 
> very light. All colors are fine with the Epson cartridge. I think 
that 
> in the MIS cartridge the yellow-position is empty and the others 
are 
> running low!
> 
> I refilled the cardridge a couple of weeks ago. Prior to that, when 
it 
> was in the printer, the ink monitor was showing about 10%-20% ink 
for 
> all colors, but I started to get bad nozzle checks that were 
getting 
> worse (fast) with cleaning.  Originally I thought that it was 
clocking. 
> However, before refilling I extracted the remaining ink from the 
> cartridge. There was very little of it. So I thought that it was 
just 
> that the sensors where not reliable and that my bad nozzle checks 
were 
> due to insufficent ink in the cartridge.
> 
> However, now the cartridge seems to be empty again! Only about two 
weeks 
> after reffiling the! During this time I think I have printed the 
> equivalent of perhaps  four 13x19in. pages only.
> 
> Can someone tell me if the capacity of these cartridges is this 
low? Or 
> perhaps the one I have is defective and should be replaced? I 
refilled 

> it once after filling it the first time.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Your friend in photography,
> Manuel Toledo

Manuel,

Some background information on the Epson ink monitor that may help 
reduce confusion.

If you pop the chip off an Epson ink cartridge you'll only see a 
little blob of epoxy. There are no wires or no sensors into the ink 
well. The chip is used as a scratch pad by the Epson driver to 
subtract the amount of ink that it estimates has been used, picoliter 
by picoliter. You'll also notice that for the multi-color cartridges 
the ink wells all drop uniformly. I believe the Epson driver is 
subtracting the worst case amount. [I have an epson 2200 and I find 
it amazing how vastly different the color consumption is for the 
different colors. I was surprised to see that Lite Magenta and Lite 
Cyan are most heavily used with Yellow being the slowest.]

There's a device which will reset the ink chips back to full to fool 
the ink monitor so it will continue to work. There are also chips 
that reset themselves when the power is turned off the printer.

Bottom line: You have to take with a grain of salt what the ink 
monitor is estimating as the ink level. It does not necessarily 
reflect reality.

I recently bought an Epson 1280 dedicated to black only printing. 
Following Paul Roark's recommendation, I started off with the UT inks 
in Epson-replacement cartridges to try it out. I liked them so I 
ordered the CIS cartridges and UT ink bottles.

[I encountered a problem: the chips on the CIS cartridge were not 
resetting on power down. MIS sent me new chips (pink substrate) that 
worked fine. The non-resetting chips were on a green substrate.]

Your note does not state which printer and MIS cartridges you are 
using. 

When I spoke to Bob Zeiger at MIS, he said that the two cartridges 
are different. The CIS cartridges are simpler and depend on creating 
an air bubble at the top to regulate ink flow. 

The Epson-replacement cartridges have a more convoluted path to 
regulate flow and deter people from refilling them. It's more 
difficult to force ink back into these, since the air vent is used to 
limit air intake.

There's a guy in Hong Kong, Kui, that's analyzed Epson cartridges:

http://www.digital4to.com/

click on Introduction. This gave me a better way to visualize what's 
going on.

It also helped me to conclude that I was better off using cartridges 
that were engineered for continuos refilling. It's just easier to go 
with the flow.

Hope this is useful.

Lincoln Fajardo





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
<jeades1@s...> wrote:
> Hello Manuel,
> 
> It may not be the ink getting low, but the cartridge could have a 
> buildup of foam so that when you filled the first refill and the 
ink 
> flowed out the vent hole appearing to be full, it was really not 
> full. The overflow was foam buildup. Every other refill I always 
use 
> a large syringe and tape over the vent holes and draw out all the 
> foam and ink inside the chamber before refilling.
> 
> Your friend in Photography,
> 
> Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Manuel Toledo 
> <mtoledo@e...> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I have a problem with a MIS cartridge that I am using with the UT 
> > inkset. The ink monitor tells me that the inks are 80% full, but 
a 
> > nozzle check shows no lines in the yellow position. I replaced 
the 
> > cardritge with an Epson original and noticed that the MIS 
cartridge 
> is 
> > very light. All colors are fine with the Epson cartridge. I think 
> that 
> > in the MIS cartridge the yellow-position is empty and the others 
> are 
> > running low!
> > 
> > I refilled the cardridge a couple of weeks ago. Prior to that, 
when 
> it 
> > was in the printer, the ink monitor was showing about 10%-20% ink 
> for 
> > all colors, but I started to get bad nozzle checks that were 
> getting 
> > worse (fast) with cleaning.  Originally I thought that it was 
> clocking. 
> > However, before refilling I extracted the remaining ink from the 
> > cartridge. There was very little of it. So I thought that it was 
> just 
> > that the sensors where not reliable and that my bad nozzle checks 
> were 
> > due to insufficent ink in the cartridge.
> > 
> > However, now the cartridge seems to be empty again! Only about 
two 

> weeks 
> > after reffiling the! During this time I think I have printed the 
> > equivalent of perhaps  four 13x19in. pages only.
> > 
> > Can someone tell me if the capacity of these cartridges is this 
> low? Or 
> > perhaps the one I have is defective and should be replaced? I 
> refilled 
> > it once after filling it the first time.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance!
> > 
> > Your friend in photography,
> > Manuel Toledo

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "glean_ideas" 
<lincoln@f...> wrote:
> 
> I recently bought an Epson 1280 dedicated to black only printing. 
> Following Paul Roark's recommendation, I started off with the UT 
inks 
> in Epson-replacement cartridges to try it out. I liked them so I 
> ordered the CIS cartridges and UT ink bottles.
> 
A very interesting post, Lincoln, thank you.

I've been sitting on a fence across the pond for some months now with 
a 1290 purchased for dedicating to B&W and with the continuous flow 
UT set in mind, basically for matt papers but clogging issues, why 
MIS still has its caveat emptor, pondering switching to cartridge in 
the K position with either a photo or dual purpose black.  I am a bit 
worried about switching K positions because of sensitivity to 
clogging with Eboni.  

I would appreciate accounts of your experiences as most users seem to 
be sticking with the cart option.  If you can spare a print showing 
what you have been able to achieve, and are prepared to contact me 
off-list, I will send you my son's US address for we will be meeting 
in the UK over Christmas.

Colin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "colingruk" 
<colin.conway@b...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "glean_ideas" 
> <lincoln@f...> wrote:
> > 
> > I recently bought an Epson 1280 dedicated to black only printing. 
> > Following Paul Roark's recommendation, I started off with the UT 
> inks 
> > in Epson-replacement cartridges to try it out. I liked them so I 
> > ordered the CIS cartridges and UT ink bottles.
> > 
> A very interesting post, Lincoln, thank you.
> 
> I've been sitting on a fence across the pond for some months now 
with 
> a 1290 purchased for dedicating to B&W and with the continuous flow 
> UT set in mind, basically for matt papers but clogging issues, why 
> MIS still has its caveat emptor, pondering switching to cartridge 
in 
> the K position with either a photo or dual purpose black.  I am a 
bit 
> worried about switching K positions because of sensitivity to 
> clogging with Eboni.  
> 
> I would appreciate accounts of your experiences as most users seem 
to 
> be sticking with the cart option.  If you can spare a print showing 
> what you have been able to achieve, and are prepared to contact me 
> off-list, I will send you my son's US address for we will be 
meeting 

> in the UK over Christmas.
> 
> Colin

Jhonny and Lincoln,

Thanks very much for replying to my question. Just for the record, I
am using  a 1280. I will refill the cartridge again, this time making
sure I remove all the ink, as per Johnny's recomendation. 

I always thought that probably the ink monitor was not actually
measuring the amount of ink in the cartridge. Otherwise, adding ink to
a partially full cartridge would make the ink level go up, and
resetting the cartridge would not be necessary.

Thanks again!
Manuel 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "glean_ideas"
<lincoln@f...> wrote:

> Manuel,
> 
> Some background information on the Epson ink monitor that may help 
> reduce confusion.
> 
> If you pop the chip off an Epson ink cartridge you'll only see a 
> little blob of epoxy. There are no wires or no sensors into the ink 
> well. The chip is used as a scratch pad by the Epson driver to 
> subtract the amount of ink that it estimates has been used, picoliter 
> by picoliter. You'll also notice that for the multi-color cartridges 
> the ink wells all drop uniformly. I believe the Epson driver is 
> subtracting the worst case amount. [I have an epson 2200 and I find 
> it amazing how vastly different the color consumption is for the 
> different colors. I was surprised to see that Lite Magenta and Lite 
> Cyan are most heavily used with Yellow being the slowest.]
> 
> There's a device which will reset the ink chips back to full to fool 
> the ink monitor so it will continue to work. There are also chips 
> that reset themselves when the power is turned off the printer.
> 
> Bottom line: You have to take with a grain of salt what the ink 
> monitor is estimating as the ink level. It does not necessarily 
> reflect reality.
> 
> I recently bought an Epson 1280 dedicated to black only printing. 
> Following Paul Roark's recommendation, I started off with the UT inks 
> in Epson-replacement cartridges to try it out. I liked them so I 
> ordered the CIS cartridges and UT ink bottles.
> 
> [I encountered a problem: the chips on the CIS cartridge were not 
> resetting on power down. MIS sent me new chips (pink substrate) that 
> worked fine. The non-resetting chips were on a green substrate.]
> 
> Your note does not state which printer and MIS cartridges you are 
> using. 
> 
> When I spoke to Bob Zeiger at MIS, he said that the two cartridges 
> are different. The CIS cartridges are simpler and depend on creating 
> an air bubble at the top to regulate ink flow. 
> 
> The Epson-replacement cartridges have a more convoluted path to 
> regulate flow and deter people from refilling them. It's more 
> difficult to force ink back into these, since the air vent is used to 
> limit air intake.
> 
> There's a guy in Hong Kong, Kui, that's analyzed Epson cartridges:
> 
> http://www.digital4to.com/
> 
> click on Introduction. This gave me a better way to visualize what's 
> going on.
> 
> It also helped me to conclude that I was better off using cartridges 
> that were engineered for continuos refilling. It's just easier to go 
> with the flow.
> 
> Hope this is useful.
> 
> Lincoln Fajardo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
> <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > Hello Manuel,
> > 
> > It may not be the ink getting low, but the cartridge could have a 
> > buildup of foam so that when you filled the first refill and the 
> ink 
> > flowed out the vent hole appearing to be full, it was really not 
> > full. The overflow was foam buildup. Every other refill I always 
> use 
> > a large syringe and tape over the vent holes and draw out all the 
> > foam and ink inside the chamber before refilling.
> > 
> > Your friend in Photography,
> > 
> > Johnny Eades
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Manuel Toledo 
> > <mtoledo@e...> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I have a problem with a MIS cartridge that I am using with the UT 
> > > inkset. The ink monitor tells me that the inks are 80% full, but 
> a 
> > > nozzle check shows no lines in the yellow position. I replaced 
> the 
> > > cardritge with an Epson original and noticed that the MIS 
> cartridge 
> > is 
> > > very light. All colors are fine with the Epson cartridge. I think 
> > that 
> > > in the MIS cartridge the yellow-position is empty and the others 
> > are 
> > > running low!
> > > 
> > > I refilled the cardridge a couple of weeks ago. Prior to that, 
> when 
> > it 
> > > was in the printer, the ink monitor was showing about 10%-20% ink 
> > for 
> > > all colors, but I started to get bad nozzle checks that were 
> > getting 
> > > worse (fast) with cleaning.  Originally I thought that it was 
> > clocking. 
> > > However, before refilling I extracted the remaining ink from the 
> > > cartridge. There was very little of it. So I thought that it was 
> > just 
> > > that the sensors where not reliable and that my bad nozzle checks 
> > were 
> > > due to insufficent ink in the cartridge.
> > > 
> > > However, now the cartridge seems to be empty again! Only about 
> two 
> > weeks 
> > > after reffiling the! During this time I think I have printed the 
> > > equivalent of perhaps  four 13x19in. pages only.
> > > 
> > > Can someone tell me if the capacity of these cartridges is this 
> > low? Or 
> > > perhaps the one I have is defective and should be replaced? I 
> > refilled 
> > > it once after filling it the first time.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance!
> > > 
> > > Your friend in photography,
> > > Manuel Toledo