Digital BW, The Print

Mitch,

I read of a very similar technique to yours on the imagingrevue website. However, the Blue channel was not used; just Red and Green. Seems to make sense if one looks at the Blue channel alone...it doesn't seem to have much to offer.

But, one additional step that's not posted below is to convert to Lab and copy/paste the Luminosity channel. This particular step gives you something that Channel Mixer doesn't. You might want to give this a try, too.

I've been playing around with this convert technique for a couple of days and, at least, initially, I have to agree that it seems better than other techniques I've used.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "Glenn Mitchell" <gmitchel850@...>
> Date: 2003/12/04 Thu PM 01:04:42 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Converting to B&W with Split Channel
> 
> I have not seen any messages that discuss my favorite technique for
> conversion to B&W. It uses a little-known PS feature called Split
> channels.
> 
> Split Channels is a menu option on the flyout menu for the Channels
> Palette. It takes your RGB image and creates a separate grayscale
> image for each channel.
> 
> Almost everyone here will be familiar with using Mode | Grayscale or
> Channel Mixer with the Monochrome box selected to create a B&W image.
> 
> This is even better than using Channel Mixer with Monochrome. Much
> better, IMHO! After you create files for the separate channels, you
> copy them all to the same document as separate layers. That way, you
> get immediate feedback as you experiment with various layers options,
> like opacity.
> 
> I worked on an image last night I brought the blue channel in at 5
> percent opacity in Normal blend. The red channel was 80% opacity in
> Normal blend. The green channel was 95% opacity, but I used Soft
> Light blend for added contrast.
> 
> You can turn the visibility on and off for various layers as you try
> to decided how much of each to incorporate. You can change the layer
> opacity and blend mode. You can even control the set points for what
> gets blended from each channel -- perhaps the shadows from one, the
> midtones and highlights from another.
> 
> I'm working on a PDF tutorial right now.
> 
> It's now the only way I convert from color to B&W. Give it a try!
> Pretty neat stuff!
> 
> Perhaps the Split Channel technique will come in handy for you in
> the future.

A number 12 (yellow) filter is also called a minus blue filter because 
it filters out almost all of the blue light in the spectrum. It's 
normally used to darken the sky and deepen shadows- since shadows tend 
to be illuminated with light from open sky. To enhance shadows sometimes 
a blue filter is used. Sometimes using a blue filter will minimize the 
small shadows in a portrait - hence minimizing the impact of lines, 
wrinkles, etc.

So there is some information in the blue channel, but it is going to be 
very dependent on the photograph.

Truman

Alan.Huntley@... wrote:

> Mitch,
>
> I read of a very similar technique to yours on the imagingrevue 
> website. However, the Blue channel was not used; just Red and Green. 
> Seems to make sense if one looks at the Blue channel alone...it 
> doesn't seem to have much to offer.
>
> But, one additional step that's not posted below is to convert to Lab 
> and copy/paste the Luminosity channel. This particular step gives you 
> something that Channel Mixer doesn't. You might want to give this a 
> try, too.
>
> I've been playing around with this convert technique for a couple of 
> days and, at least, initially, I have to agree that it seems better 
> than other techniques I've used.
>
> Alan Huntley
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service 
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Another interesting way to convert can be found on Russel Brown's
Photoshop tips page.  He has a pdf file and a quicktime movie that
explain's it.  It's a lot like filtering but after the capture/scan.

QT movie (7.5 megs)

http://www.russellbrown.com/tips/moviesps/ColortoB&W.mov

PDF doc  (820 Kb)

http://www.russellbrown.com/tips/pdf/colortoB&W.pdf

Truman,

All true...probably should have added that in my work I don't find a lot of use for the Blue channel using the so-called "Split Channel" approach. Then, again, I've only recently started playing with B&W conversions of color files; usually, I'm running a hybrid approach shooting LF B&W, scanning, and printing (Epson 2200/IP).

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@...>
> Date: 2003/12/04 Thu PM 03:34:28 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Converting to B&W with Split Channel
> 
> So there is some information in the blue channel, but it is going to be 
> very dependent on the photograph.

Hi Mitchell,
I am very interested in your color to B&W conversion and tried it. I used Split channel option, created three separate files, but I don't know how to copy them as separate layers. Please, elaborate about your procedure in more details. Thank you.
Yume Grot 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Glenn Mitchell 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:04 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Converting to B&W with Split Channel


  I have not seen any messages that discuss my favorite technique for
  conversion to B&W. It uses a little-known PS feature called Split
  channels.

  Split Channels is a menu option on the flyout menu for the Channels
  Palette. It takes your RGB image and creates a separate grayscale
  image for each channel.

  Almost everyone here will be familiar with using Mode | Grayscale or
  Channel Mixer with the Monochrome box selected to create a B&W image.

  This is even better than using Channel Mixer with Monochrome. Much
  better, IMHO! After you create files for the separate channels, you
  copy them all to the same document as separate layers. That way, you
  get immediate feedback as you experiment with various layers options,
  like opacity.

  I worked on an image last night I brought the blue channel in at 5
  percent opacity in Normal blend. The red channel was 80% opacity in
  Normal blend. The green channel was 95% opacity, but I used Soft
  Light blend for added contrast.

  You can turn the visibility on and off for various layers as you try
  to decided how much of each to incorporate. You can change the layer
  opacity and blend mode. You can even control the set points for what
  gets blended from each channel -- perhaps the shadows from one, the
  midtones and highlights from another.

  I'm working on a PDF tutorial right now.

  It's now the only way I convert from color to B&W. Give it a try!
  Pretty neat stuff!

  Perhaps the Split Channel technique will come in handy for you in
  the future.

  Cheers,

  Mitch



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mitch,
I like your method.  I use the Channel Mixer with color quite 
successfully to make some changes without
discarding the data.  Your method for BW conversion makes sense.  
Just one complex question:
- what channel do you use as a base at 100%?
- what opacity levels of the remaining channels do you use as a starting 
point?
What I like about this method is that applying the mask to each of the 
layers you can have an effect delivered to
the areas you want in the degree you want (again - all reversible). 
 Thanks a lot.  This simple - already provided by Adobe
way (overlooked by most) gives you the most control.  And if you want 
some more extreme effect - you can always use the
Channel Mixer on the top of it.
Thanks again for pointing it out.
Jack

>
> > From: "Glenn Mitchell" <gmitchel850@...>
> > Date: 2003/12/04 Thu PM 01:04:42 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Converting to B&W with Split Channel
> >
> > I have not seen any messages that discuss my favorite technique for
> > conversion to B&W. It uses a little-known PS feature called Split
> > channels.
> >
> > Split Channels is a menu option on the flyout menu for the Channels
> > Palette. It takes your RGB image and creates a separate grayscale
> > image for each channel.
> >
> > Almost everyone here will be familiar with using Mode | Grayscale or
> > Channel Mixer with the Monochrome box selected to create a B&W image.
> >
> > This is even better than using Channel Mixer with Monochrome. Much
> > better, IMHO! After you create files for the separate channels, you
> > copy them all to the same document as separate layers. That way, you
> > get immediate feedback as you experiment with various layers options,
> > like opacity.
> >
> > I worked on an image last night I brought the blue channel in at 5
> > percent opacity in Normal blend. The red channel was 80% opacity in
> > Normal blend. The green channel was 95% opacity, but I used Soft
> > Light blend for added contrast.
> >
> > You can turn the visibility on and off for various layers as you try
> > to decided how much of each to incorporate. You can change the layer
> > opacity and blend mode. You can even control the set points for what
> > gets blended from each channel -- perhaps the shadows from one, the
> > midtones and highlights from another.
> >
> > I'm working on a PDF tutorial right now.
> >
> > It's now the only way I convert from color to B&W. Give it a try!
> > Pretty neat stuff!
> >
> > Perhaps the Split Channel technique will come in handy for you in
> > the future.

Yume, there are two easy ways to copy a layer to another document. 
One is to drag and drop holding down the shift key.  You need to have
the source document and the target document visble at the same time on
the desktop.  Click on the source doc to make it the active one.  Go
to the layers pallette and click and drag the layer icon onto the
target.  Hold the shift key down and let go of the mouse button. 
Since both docs are the same size it should position in register
centered (holding shift is what centers it). Another way is to go up
to layers in the toolbar or the flyout menu in the layers pallette and
select LAYER - DUPLICATE LAYER. This will bring up a dialog box where
you will see a drop down for "Destination Document".  If you click on
the drop down you will see choices for all the open docs.  Choose
which one you want to target as the destination and it will go there
in perfect registration due to both docs being the same size. You can
also give it a recognizable name such as red, green or blue instead of
the default "layer#".

Mitch talked about varying the opacity of each layer so he must be
copying them to a new document so all three can be altered.  If you
notice after a split channel all 3 docs have one layer called
"background".  You cannot alter the opacity or blending mode of a
background layer.  I've played with this a bit now and here's how I
do it.

Open image and split channels. Zoom these down a bit so you can see
all 3.  Click on one of them and go the the tool bar to "IMAGE -
DUPLICATE IMAGE".  You can name this some thing like "base" at this
time.  A duplicate of your image will appear on the desktop named
"Base". Now go to the tool bar to "EDIT - FILL". In the fill pallette
select a white fill, normal mode at 100% opacity.  You now have a base
image where you can copy the other layers to.  I use the flyout menu
in the layers pallette to "DUPLICATE LAYER" to copy each to my base
image as described above, but you could use the drag and drop method
also. Now you have a 4 layer image where the base is white and the 3
layers with pictorial content can be manipulated as desired.

This is a pretty cool method for gaining a substantial amount of
control in a B&W conversion and I thank Mitch for sharing it.  The
neat (and sometimes frustrating) thing about Photoshop is that there
are so many ways to acheive similar outcomes yet each offers it's own
special little advantages. Without forums like this one most of the
less conspicuous tools available in Photoshop would probably go
unnoticed.  Thanks again to Mitch.

Jeff M.

Yep, Jack. Everything is reversible. What I like is you see the 
changes as you make the adjustments. With Channel Mixer, you try a 
setting, if you don't like it, you undo the change and try again.

I use a blank background layer. I add the red and green files to the 
blue as layers. Then duplicate the background layer and delete 
everything on it. I rename the layers Blue, Red, Green. From bottom 
to top, that's my preferred order.

I turn off the visibility for all of the layers. Then look at them 
individually.

I find somewhere around 5-10% for Blue, 65-80% for Red, and 90-100% 
for Green gives me good initial results. I try various blend modes, 
especially for the Green layer. The final settings will vary from 
image to image, of course.

Cheers,

Mitch

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
<Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote:
> Mitch,
> 
> I read of a very similar technique to yours on the imagingrevue 
website. However, the Blue channel was not used; just Red and Green. 
Seems to make sense if one looks at the Blue channel alone...it 
doesn't seem to have much to offer.
> 

This will vary from image to image. Your looking for possible 
contributions to contrast in different areas of the image.

> But, one additional step that's not posted below is to convert to 
Lab and copy/paste the Luminosity channel. This particular step 
gives you something that Channel Mixer doesn't. You might want to 
give this a try, too.
> 

I'll take that as a friendly motion and try it! Thanks.

Cheers,

Mitch

Adobe provided it, but, from the description in the manual, Adobe didn't design it for this purpose.  Glad someone pointed this one out.
 
Tom Baker

Jack M Kucy <jmk@...> wrote:
Hi Mitch,
I like your method.  I use the Channel Mixer with color quite 
successfully to make some changes without
discarding the data.  Your method for BW conversion makes sense.  
Just one complex question:
- what channel do you use as a base at 100%?
- what opacity levels of the remaining channels do you use as a starting 
point?
What I like about this method is that applying the mask to each of the 
layers you can have an effect delivered to
the areas you want in the degree you want (again - all reversible). 
Thanks a lot.  This simple - already provided by Adobe
way (overlooked by most) gives you the most control.  And if you want 
some more extreme effect - you can always use the
Channel Mixer on the top of it.
Thanks again for pointing it out.
Jack

>
> > From: "Glenn Mitchell" <gmitchel850@...>
> > Date: 2003/12/04 Thu PM 01:04:42 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Converting to B&W with Split Channel
> >
> > I have not seen any messages that discuss my favorite technique for
> > conversion to B&W. It uses a little-known PS feature called Split
> > channels.
> >
> > Split Channels is a menu option on the flyout menu for the Channels
> > Palette. It takes your RGB image and creates a separate grayscale
> > image for each channel.
> >
> > Almost everyone here will be familiar with using Mode | Grayscale or
> > Channel Mixer with the Monochrome box selected to create a B&W image.
> >
> > This is even better than using Channel Mixer with Monochrome. Much
> > better, IMHO! After you create files for the separate channels, you
> > copy them all to the same document as separate layers. That way, you
> > get immediate feedback as you experiment with various layers options,
> > like opacity.
> >
> > I worked on an image last night I brought the blue channel in at 5
> > percent opacity in Normal blend. The red channel was 80% opacity in
> > Normal blend. The green channel was 95% opacity, but I used Soft
> > Light blend for added contrast.
> >
> > You can turn the visibility on and off for various layers as you try
> > to decided how much of each to incorporate. You can change the layer
> > opacity and blend mode. You can even control the set points for what
> > gets blended from each channel -- perhaps the shadows from one, the
> > midtones and highlights from another.
> >
> > I'm working on a PDF tutorial right now.
> >
> > It's now the only way I convert from color to B&W. Give it a try!
> > Pretty neat stuff!
> >
> > Perhaps the Split Channel technique will come in handy for you in
> > the future.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the explanation. I am starting playing with it right now.
I like it.
Jack

Glenn Mitchell wrote:

> Yep, Jack. Everything is reversible. What I like is you see the
> changes as you make the adjustments. With Channel Mixer, you try a
> setting, if you don't like it, you undo the change and try again.
>
> I use a blank background layer. I add the red and green files to the
> blue as layers. Then duplicate the background layer and delete
> everything on it. I rename the layers Blue, Red, Green. From bottom
> to top, that's my preferred order.
>
> I turn off the visibility for all of the layers. Then look at them
> individually.
>
> I find somewhere around 5-10% for Blue, 65-80% for Red, and 90-100%
> for Green gives me good initial results. I try various blend modes,
> especially for the Green layer. The final settings will vary from
> image to image, of course.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mitch
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER 
> AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service 
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


-- 

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096 jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle




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