Digital BW, The Print

Helene wrote:

>How come everyone on this list isn't trying the MIS archival color inks as
>per Jerry's post below? ...

Jerry wrote:

>> I get great results with the MIS archival pigment inks with one of CD
>> Tobie's profiles. I had one made for Epson Archival Matte Paper and an
>> epson 1160 printer. Colors are great, and the black and white prints are
>> close to neutral, no crossover colors at all. ...

I'd expect most of us quad users have gone through the phase of trying to
get top notch B&W out of color inksets.  However, I came back to quads for
reasons that even the best profiles are not going to cure -- metamerism and
color shifts being among the most obvious.

Metamerism (shifting apparent color balance depending on the light source)
appears to be inherent in color inksets, being the worst in the Epson 2000P
pigments, but still too obvious in the MIS and Generations pigments for them
to be of interest to me.  B&W prints make even the smallest color changes so
obvious that even when the color shifts are not apparent in color images,
they become obvious and a serious problem with the color inksets when
printing B&W.

Even if the color inkset is perfectly balanced when it is first printed, it
might look very different after the colors shift a bit from time and light
exposure.  I thought I had some very nice, neutral looking color-inkset
B&W's, but several months later they look terrible.  The colors fade at a
different rates; so what is neutral when new does not stay that way.  In my
experience, the warming of our quads is not nearly as bad as the changes
that have occurred to my color inkset B&W prints.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul, were these changes under normal room light, or really bright
lights?  I haven't seen any yet, but of course it's way too soon to
tell. The prints don't have any color crossovers yet. These were made
with the tobie profile though. Without it, I could never get the grays
to print correctly. Metamerism isn't bad, at least from tungsten to
daylight. Haven't tried them under fluorescent lights, as I don't have any.

Jerry




Paul Roark wrote:

> 
> Helene wrote:
> 
> >How come everyone on this list isn't trying the MIS archival color inks as
> >per Jerry's post below? ...
> 
> Jerry wrote:
> 
> >> I get great results with the MIS archival pigment inks with one of CD
> >> Tobie's profiles. I had one made for Epson Archival Matte Paper and an
> >> epson 1160 printer. Colors are great, and the black and white prints are
> >> close to neutral, no crossover colors at all. ...
> 
> I'd expect most of us quad users have gone through the phase of trying to
> get top notch B&W out of color inksets.  However, I came back to quads for
> reasons that even the best profiles are not going to cure -- metamerism and
> color shifts being among the most obvious.
> 
> Metamerism (shifting apparent color balance depending on the light source)
> appears to be inherent in color inksets, being the worst in the Epson 2000P
> pigments, but still too obvious in the MIS and Generations pigments for them
> to be of interest to me.  B&W prints make even the smallest color changes so
> obvious that even when the color shifts are not apparent in color images,
> they become obvious and a serious problem with the color inksets when
> printing B&W.
> 
> Even if the color inkset is perfectly balanced when it is first printed, it
> might look very different after the colors shift a bit from time and light
> exposure.  I thought I had some very nice, neutral looking color-inkset
> B&W's, but several months later they look terrible.  The colors fade at a
> different rates; so what is neutral when new does not stay that way.  In my
> experience, the warming of our quads is not nearly as bad as the changes
> that have occurred to my color inkset B&W prints.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
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Jerry,

You wrote:

>Paul, were these changes under normal room light, or really bright
>lights?

Actually my experience with trying to get good B&W's from color inksets was
before I was testing for fading or being very systematic about it.  Some
were in normal display, and some were actually in dark storage.  However, I
didn't have controls for most of the prints.  So, I can't actually say the
extent the prints changed.  The differential fading of the pigments,
however, is clear in the RIT tests.  And the bottom line is that what I had
thought were good prints in the past look rather bad now.

>Metamerism isn't bad, at least from tungsten to
>daylight. Haven't tried them under fluorescent lights, as I don't have any.

I think metamerism can be lived with if you know where the print will be
displayed.  You just print for that light.  However, it's just one more
issue I'd just as soon get rid of.

Paul

_______________



Paul Roark wrote:
>
> Helene wrote:
>
> >How come everyone on this list isn't trying the MIS archival color inks
as
> >per Jerry's post below? ...
>
> Jerry wrote:
>
> >> I get great results with the MIS archival pigment inks with one of CD
> >> Tobie's profiles. I had one made for Epson Archival Matte Paper and an
> >> epson 1160 printer. Colors are great, and the black and white prints
are
> >> close to neutral, no crossover colors at all. ...
>
> I'd expect most of us quad users have gone through the phase of trying to
> get top notch B&W out of color inksets.  However, I came back to quads for
> reasons that even the best profiles are not going to cure -- metamerism
and
> color shifts being among the most obvious.
>
> Metamerism (shifting apparent color balance depending on the light source)
> appears to be inherent in color inksets, being the worst in the Epson
2000P
> pigments, but still too obvious in the MIS and Generations pigments for
them
> to be of interest to me.  B&W prints make even the smallest color changes
so
> obvious that even when the color shifts are not apparent in color images,
> they become obvious and a serious problem with the color inksets when
> printing B&W.
>
> Even if the color inkset is perfectly balanced when it is first printed,
it
> might look very different after the colors shift a bit from time and light
> exposure.  I thought I had some very nice, neutral looking color-inkset
> B&W's, but several months later they look terrible.  The colors fade at a
> different rates; so what is neutral when new does not stay that way.  In
my

> experience, the warming of our quads is not nearly as bad as the changes
> that have occurred to my color inkset B&W prints.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com