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2003-12-19 by Carl Schofield
I received a copy of the MSDS pdf sheet for Print Shield from PremierArt. Basically, the hazardous ingredients in Print Shield (90% by weight) are volatiles consisting of Isopropyl alcohol (40-60%), Dimethyl Ether (40-60%), and n-Butyl Acetate (1-3%). No known carcinogens, but breathing these fumes might make you quite dizzy. If anyone wants the MSDS sheet let me know. Carl Schofield
2003-12-19 by Jon
Thanks for that info, Carl. Jon
> I received a copy of the MSDS pdf sheet for Print Shield from > PremierArt. Basically, the hazardous ingredients in Print Shield (90% > by weight) are volatiles consisting of Isopropyl alcohol (40-60%), > Dimethyl Ether (40-60%), and n-Butyl Acetate (1-3%). No known > carcinogens, but breathing these fumes might make you quite dizzy. If > anyone wants the MSDS sheet let me know. > > Carl Schofield
2003-12-19 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Ok, some years back when the VM-S set hit the streets, I wondered aloud on this list about profiling it with a commercial profile package.. It created a stir, and I tried doing it with some then commercially available packages... Results were VERY disappointing and resulted in huge amounts of posterization. Since then I've played with a bunch of products and had been having surprising success on color profiles with ProfilePrism of all things.. I never even thought to try a "low-end product" like Profile Prism on the previously uncompleted task of properly profiling the VM-S set.. Well, I've been a tad bored lately and was running a bunch of other tests, creating actions, etc., So, I figured, "what the hey, why not give Profile Prism a shot at profiling the VM-S inkset?" Amazingly, it created a profile that is both usable for printer profiling and soft proofing (a necessary component to getting this right).. The workflow is pretty straightforward, but it works.. Color me astonished. (I'm guessing that Profile Prism does more simple point to point mapping and less interpolation as far as: rendering intent, smoothing, etc. - meaning a profile for something like this would be more likely to be usable) While some of the output still needs a tad bit of tweaking in the shadows (and that can be accomplished with a curve if necessary), this workflow should allow split toning at will with the VM-S and VM inksets, as well as perhaps the UltraTones... If there's interest, I'll put together a complete workflow/explanation and send it to Martin Wesley to add to the group files.. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2003-12-19 by Daniel Staver
> If there's interest, I'll put together a complete > workflow/explanation > and send it to Martin Wesley to add to the group files.. This sounds very interesting. Could you outline the steps you're using very roughly so I can get an idea of how you make it work? I also have Profile Prism, and it would be interesting to see what kind of results I could get with the Ultratones on my 2100 using your workflow. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2003-12-19 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Daniel Staver wrote: >>If there's interest, I'll put together a complete >>workflow/explanation >>and send it to Martin Wesley to add to the group files.. >> >> > >This sounds very interesting. Could you outline the steps you're using >very roughly so I can get an idea of how you make it work? > > You should be working in PhotoShop in ADOBE RGB for Color and whatever Greyscale workspace you normally use.. Create a profile with ProfilePrism as you normally would.. Do the work on your B&W image as you normally would in Greyscale (for me that's generally a 20% dot gain space since it coincides with a default Black Only workflow - the more consistent I keep my settings the less I find myself blowing it by forgetting to change one).. Try with a plain greyscale ramp / 21 step wedge to start.. (it'll help you understand the process) Change the mode to Adobe RGB.. Change your View to a Custom Proof Setup - Choose your VM or VM-S profile in the pull down dialogue and select perceptual or absolute colorimetric (the latter works better for me with my setup) Now... to see how this works... Pull up the Hue/Saturation dialogue.. Turn on "Colorize" and "Preview". Simply adjust the hue and saturation sliders to get a variety of smooth ramps of differing tonalities.. (I suggest starting by just adjusting the hue slider)... Voila! In any event, you can see how this would be used to split-tone easily... Simply select areas with whatever tools you prefer and colorize as needed.. Since you can now preview the results on-screen, you should be able to avoid the unpredictable transitions that can occur if you use the Roark Curves, or other curves on similarly selected areas.. Please, let me know how this works on the 2200.. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2003-12-19 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
BTW: I haven't tested this yet with the standard VM set just with the VM-S set.. Printer settings are the same as for the Roark workflow. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2003-12-19 by Daniel Staver
> Please, let me know how this works on the 2200.. I just tried, and it didn't work very well.. I got some of the weirdest transitions I've ever seen with my printer. Here's some of the interesting results I got: http://daniel.staver.no/img/prism_ultratones.jpg Actually the last one is not a complete disaster, but it blocks up in the shadows and has dots in the highlights. About the same as if I print straight without any curves or profiles. Thanks for you help anyway, this might still be useful information for VM and VM-S users. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2003-12-19 by Paul Roark
Keith, Very interesting. I hope the UT2 inkset is even more compatible with standard printing software. Using densities that are close to the OEM inks might help. Paul www.PaulRoark.com ________________________________
-----Original Message----- From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...] Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:43 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Success profiling MIS VM-S = a new alternative workflow Daniel Staver wrote: >>If there's interest, I'll put together a complete >>workflow/explanation >>and send it to Martin Wesley to add to the group files.. >> >> > >This sounds very interesting. Could you outline the steps you're using >very roughly so I can get an idea of how you make it work? > > You should be working in PhotoShop in ADOBE RGB for Color and whatever Greyscale workspace you normally use.. Create a profile with ProfilePrism as you normally would.. Do the work on your B&W image as you normally would in Greyscale (for me that's generally a 20% dot gain space since it coincides with a default Black Only workflow - the more consistent I keep my settings the less I find myself blowing it by forgetting to change one).. Try with a plain greyscale ramp / 21 step wedge to start.. (it'll help you understand the process) Change the mode to Adobe RGB.. Change your View to a Custom Proof Setup - Choose your VM or VM-S profile in the pull down dialogue and select perceptual or absolute colorimetric (the latter works better for me with my setup) Now... to see how this works... Pull up the Hue/Saturation dialogue.. Turn on "Colorize" and "Preview". Simply adjust the hue and saturation sliders to get a variety of smooth ramps of differing tonalities.. (I suggest starting by just adjusting the hue slider)... Voila! In any event, you can see how this would be used to split-tone easily... Simply select areas with whatever tools you prefer and colorize as needed.. Since you can now preview the results on-screen, you should be able to avoid the unpredictable transitions that can occur if you use the Roark Curves, or other curves on similarly selected areas.. Please, let me know how this works on the 2200.. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys" Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2003-12-19 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Daniel Staver wrote: >Here's some of the interesting results I got: >http://daniel.staver.no/img/prism_ultratones.jpg > >Actually the last one is not a complete disaster, but it blocks up in >the shadows and has dots in the highlights. About the same as if I print >straight without any curves or profiles. > > Weird! >Thanks for you help anyway, this might still be useful information for >VM and VM-S users. > > With my luck it will work ONLY on a 1270 with the VM-S inkset and not even the VM set.. ;-) Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2003-12-21 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Paul Roark wrote: >Keith, > >Very interesting. > >I hope the UT2 inkset is even more compatible with standard printing >software. Using densities that are close to the OEM inks might help. > > > Ok, here's an update.. Over some extended testing I've found that the most useful setting for using these profiles as a Soft Proof is by simply choosing "Perceptual" and "Preserve Color Numbers" - I am tending to use "Paper White" and "Ink Black" clicked on, as it seems to bring me a more accurate overall ramp depiction. However, some (those who don't often use soft proofing, especially) may find leaving "Paper White" checked makes images look too low in contrast or too grayish. However, more importantly I find two helpful uses (actually differing workflows) for these profiles. 1) Simply use them as you would any profile for both soft-proofing and printing.. Convert your greyscale image to RGB (working in Adobe RGB as your default ColorSpace), then. select the profile as your soft proof AND as the printer space when printing.. You should be careful to also choose the Soft Proof Profile as your Source Space in the Print with Preview Dialog. In this workflow you can use BOTH or either, the Hue/Saturation adjuster and Paul's Curves to achieve nice split-toning while in the soft-proof mode. (for the color geeks out there: yes, basically the same effects can be had by just soft-proofing with the profile, establishing the source space as Adobe RGB, and leaving the print space as "same as source" - I prefer to use the profile as the source and printer space to keep the conversions consistent in my head - if we anyone really wants to discuss the color geek side of all this, I'd suggest the colortheory YAHOO! group as the best place to find the REAL experts, I just do what works for me) Obviously, this approach (as long as you keep the printer spaces set as I do) also works for soft-proofing the Roark Curves.. 2) More interesting to some may be the ability to, with these profiles, still use a pure Roark workflow and easily "soft proof" differing Roark Curves to choose the curve you want to use with a specific print. In this workflow you use the profile ONLY for the soft-proof, while leaving the printer color space in the "Print with Preview" dialogue set to "Same as Source"... (The source space in this case gets left at Adobe RGB) This would basically be a pure Roark Workflow, but with the ability to soft profile.. Okay, now, why does this profiling work with Profile Prism and not some more expensive scanner based packages? The other packages do more dithering, interpolation, and ramp smoothing, while at the same time generally using far fewer color patches in the Printer Target one prints to profile the inks (this higher level work by the other packages is part of why Profile Prism is often looked down upon by other vendors).. Profile Prism instead seems to just map many more discrete color points from it's test printer target without interpolation etc.. That interpolation and ramp smoothing, along with attention to rendering intent, done by other products can be very useful when preparing profiles for full color inksets where smooth tonal transitions in say skintones are important... However, with the quad/hex B&W inksets, discrete 1 to 1 mapping, may have an advantage borne of its simplicity. It'll be interesting to see how this all bears out with the UT v2 inkset.. Guess I'll have to order more ink when MIS gets back in shop.. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2003-12-23 by nevnevsf
This is very interesting, indeed. It makes sense, though, that soft proofing works. A profile contains two mappings, one from the color connection space (PCS) into the printer space (if you want a particular color, what set of RGB values should be sent to the printer), and one from the printer space to the PCS (for each RGB value sent to the printer, what color is produced). When you generate a profile using x-tone inks, the profile should accurately represent the 2nd mapping, from the printer space to the PCS. In other words, for a given RGB value sent to the printer, the profile will know what grey tone is produced, since it measured it on the target. When you soft proof, Photoshop figures out each RGB values it should send to the printer for the set profile and rendering intent, then uses the profile to figure out what color the printer should actually produce. The tricky part with an x-tone profile is that the gamut of the printer space (tones of gray) is much, much smaller that that of the working space (such as Adobe RGB), so the success of a profile really depends on how the profiler handles out-of-gamut colors. Apparently Profile Prism handles them gracefully. A bad profile would freak out when, say, bright green needs to be printed. a good profile would try to squeeze it sensibly into the x-tone color space. For a Roark workflow, the best situation would probably be to pass the RGB values in the image directly to the printer, without color management, and to use preview to see what the printer will produce. Passing the RGB values would preserve the output part of the Roark workflow. That seems to be your workflow as well. A better way to approach this would be to produce a custom profile that does a partitioned PCS to x-tone mapping. For example, the lightness (grey value of the image) could be carefully mapped with proper ink partitioning, but the amount of tinting could be controled by the a- and b- channels in the L*a*b* space (all that means is that the color of the image would render the image cooler or warmer, but the luminosity would determine how the gray inks are partitioned). Sorry if this was a bit technical and long. FYI, I have made just such a set of ICC profiles for the MIS-FS Neutral inks on an 1160 printer on Enanced Matte and Crane Museo papers. I had to write my own software to do it, but it finally works well. I use a fully color-managed workflow and get very good, consistent results, with highly accurate previews. I can even mimic color filers, and see the effect on-screen! The inks are partitioned to minimize the dot patterns. I imagine the profiles are similar to the profiles produced by the Piezotone guys, but I found out about their efforts after I was nearly done, and they don't seem to have anything for MIS inks. I posted a very rough version of the profiles earlier in the year. If anyone wants the profiles and instructions I can get them posted in the Files area. Alas, I doubt that many people are using MIS FS Neutral inks on an 1160 anymore, with these fancy Ultratones... I think I can profile just about any ink set, including Ultratones, but it'd be months before I could get to it because I'd have to modify the software to do full-color previews (right now it just does previews of lightness, which works fine for a neutral inkset). If anyone wants to contact me off-group, we can discuss it. A patchwork approach might be to try to imbed Paul Roark curves into a profile, while using the profiler to generate the preview. That I might be able to do faster. - Steven --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote: > Ok, some years back when the VM-S set hit the streets, I wondered aloud > on this list about profiling it with a commercial profile package.. > > It created a stir, and I tried doing it with some then commercially > available packages... Results were VERY disappointing and resulted in > huge amounts of posterization. > > Since then I've played with a bunch of products and had been having > surprising success on color profiles with ProfilePrism of all things.. > I never even thought to try a "low-end product" like Profile Prism on > the previously uncompleted task of properly profiling the VM-S set.. > > Well, I've been a tad bored lately and was running a bunch of other > tests, creating actions, etc., So, I figured, "what the hey, why not > give Profile Prism a shot at profiling the VM-S inkset?" > > Amazingly, it created a profile that is both usable for printer > profiling and soft proofing (a necessary component to getting this > right).. The workflow is pretty straightforward, but it works.. Color > me astonished. (I'm guessing that Profile Prism does more simple point > to point mapping and less interpolation as far as: rendering intent, > smoothing, etc. - meaning a profile for something like this would be > more likely to be usable) > > While some of the output still needs a tad bit of tweaking in the > shadows (and that can be accomplished with a curve if necessary), this > workflow should allow split toning at will with the VM-S and VM inksets, > as well as perhaps the UltraTones... > > If there's interest, I'll put together a complete workflow/explanation > and send it to Martin Wesley to add to the group files.. > > > > Keith Krebs > > "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer > User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo > Publications), at: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ > and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers > "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together > guys"
2003-12-23 by copal01
I should be very gratefull if you poste your profiles and intrucction to the files area manuel --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "nevnevsf" <nev@s...> wrote: > This is very interesting, indeed. It makes sense, though, that soft > proofing works. A profile contains two mappings, one from the color > connection space (PCS) into the printer space (if you want a > particular color, what set of RGB values should be sent to the > printer), and one from the printer space to the PCS (for each RGB > value sent to the printer, what color is produced). > > When you generate a profile using x-tone inks, the profile should > accurately represent the 2nd mapping, from the printer space to the > PCS. In other words, for a given RGB value sent to the printer, the > profile will know what grey tone is produced, since it measured it on > the target. > > When you soft proof, Photoshop figures out each RGB values it should > send to the printer for the set profile and rendering intent, then > uses the profile to figure out what color the printer should actually > produce. > > The tricky part with an x-tone profile is that the gamut of the > printer space (tones of gray) is much, much smaller that that of the > working space (such as Adobe RGB), so the success of a profile really > depends on how the profiler handles out-of-gamut colors. Apparently > Profile Prism handles them gracefully. A bad profile would freak out > when, say, bright green needs to be printed. a good profile would try > to squeeze it sensibly into the x-tone color space. For a Roark > workflow, the best situation would probably be to pass the RGB values > in the image directly to the printer, without color management, and to > use preview to see what the printer will produce. Passing the RGB > values would preserve the output part of the Roark workflow. That > seems to be your workflow as well. > > A better way to approach this would be to produce a custom profile > that does a partitioned PCS to x-tone mapping. For example, the > lightness (grey value of the image) could be carefully mapped with > proper ink partitioning, but the amount of tinting could be controled > by the a- and b- channels in the L*a*b* space (all that means is that > the color of the image would render the image cooler or warmer, but > the luminosity would determine how the gray inks are partitioned). > > Sorry if this was a bit technical and long. > > FYI, I have made just such a set of ICC profiles for the MIS-FS > Neutral inks on an 1160 printer on Enanced Matte and Crane Museo > papers. I had to write my own software to do it, but it finally works > well. I use a fully color-managed workflow and get very good, > consistent results, with highly accurate previews. I can even mimic > color filers, and see the effect on-screen! The inks are partitioned > to minimize the dot patterns. I imagine the profiles are similar to > the profiles produced by the Piezotone guys, but I found out about > their efforts after I was nearly done, and they don't seem to have > anything for MIS inks. > > I posted a very rough version of the profiles earlier in the year. If > anyone wants the profiles and instructions I can get them posted in > the Files area. Alas, I doubt that many people are using MIS FS > Neutral inks on an 1160 anymore, with these fancy Ultratones... > > I think I can profile just about any ink set, including Ultratones, > but it'd be months before I could get to it because I'd have to modify > the software to do full-color previews (right now it just does > previews of lightness, which works fine for a neutral inkset). If > anyone wants to contact me off-group, we can discuss it. > > A patchwork approach might be to try to imbed Paul Roark curves into a > profile, while using the profiler to generate the preview. That I > might be able to do faster. > > - Steven > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. > Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote: > > Ok, some years back when the VM-S set hit the streets, I wondered > aloud > > on this list about profiling it with a commercial profile package.. > > > > It created a stir, and I tried doing it with some then commercially > > available packages... Results were VERY disappointing and resulted > in > > huge amounts of posterization. > > > > Since then I've played with a bunch of products and had been having > > surprising success on color profiles with ProfilePrism of all > things.. > > I never even thought to try a "low-end product" like Profile Prism > on > > the previously uncompleted task of properly profiling the VM-S set.. > > > > Well, I've been a tad bored lately and was running a bunch of other > > tests, creating actions, etc., So, I figured, "what the hey, why > not > > give Profile Prism a shot at profiling the VM-S inkset?" > > > > Amazingly, it created a profile that is both usable for printer > > profiling and soft proofing (a necessary component to getting this > > right).. The workflow is pretty straightforward, but it works.. > Color > > me astonished. (I'm guessing that Profile Prism does more simple > point > > to point mapping and less interpolation as far as: rendering intent, > > smoothing, etc. - meaning a profile for something like this would be > > more likely to be usable) > > > > While some of the output still needs a tad bit of tweaking in the > > shadows (and that can be accomplished with a curve if necessary), > this > > workflow should allow split toning at will with the VM-S and VM > inksets, > > as well as perhaps the UltraTones... > > > > If there's interest, I'll put together a complete > workflow/explanation > > and send it to Martin Wesley to add to the group files.. > > > > > > > > Keith Krebs > > > > "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
> > User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo > > Publications), at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ > > and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers > > "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks > together > > guys"
2003-12-23 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
nevnevsf wrote: >FYI, I have made just such a set of ICC profiles for the MIS-FS >Neutral inks on an 1160 printer on Enanced Matte and Crane Museo >papers. I had to write my own software to do it, but it finally works >well. I use a fully color-managed workflow and get very good, >consistent results, with highly accurate previews. I can even mimic >color filers, and see the effect on-screen! The inks are partitioned >to minimize the dot patterns. I imagine the profiles are similar to >the profiles produced by the Piezotone guys, but I found out about >their efforts after I was nearly done, and they don't seem to have >anything for MIS inks. > > The obvious question for inquiring minds is: What OS is the software written to work in? Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2003-12-23 by px3n120x
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote: > nevnevsf wrote: > > >FYI, I have made just such a set of ICC profiles for the MIS-FS > >Neutral inks on an 1160 printer on Enanced Matte and Crane Museo > >papers. I had to write my own software to do it, but it finally works > >well. I use a fully color-managed workflow and get very good, > >consistent results, with highly accurate previews. I can even mimic > >color filers, and see the effect on-screen! The inks are partitioned > >to minimize the dot patterns. I imagine the profiles are similar to > >the profiles produced by the Piezotone guys, but I found out about > >their efforts after I was nearly done, and they don't seem to have > >anything for MIS inks. > > > > > > The obvious question for inquiring minds is: > > What OS is the software written to work in? Or better put, can the source of the software (with explanations ) be made available? Andu
> > > Keith Krebs > > "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer > User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo > Publications), at: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ > and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers > "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together > guys"
2003-12-24 by nevnevsf
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote: > nevnevsf wrote: > > >FYI, I have made just such a set of ICC profiles for the MIS-FS > >Neutral inks on an 1160 printer on Enanced Matte and Crane Museo > >papers. I had to write my own software to do it, but it finally works > >well. I use a fully color-managed workflow and get very good, > >consistent results, with highly accurate previews. I can even mimic > >color filers, and see the effect on-screen! The inks are partitioned > >to minimize the dot patterns. I imagine the profiles are similar to > >the profiles produced by the Piezotone guys, but I found out about > >their efforts after I was nearly done, and they don't seem to have > >anything for MIS inks. > > > > > > The obvious question for inquiring minds is: > > What OS is the software written to work in? > > > Keith Krebs > I programmed it in Matlab, and it isn't very user-friendly. I've been meaning to write up what I did, but haven't done it yet. The algorythm is pretty straightforward, however. The main challenge in creating an ICC profile for x-tone printing is dealing with the highly non-one-to-one mapping between the tones the printer produces and the RGB values sent to it - the same gray tone is produced by many different RGB values. They key is to find the RGB values for each lighness value that produces a gray which has minimal dot pattern. It boils down to studying the pattern produced by the printer for each RGB value sent to it, and choosing a trajectory in RGB space which has minimal dot pattern. I tried to do it automatically, but it was easer just to take 10 minutes and study the pattern manually. I then map each point on that trajectory to a lighness value (the L* channel of the L*a*b* space). This is done automatically by the program, after scanning a few targets. The profile ignores the color (a*b*) channels. For an variable mix inks, like Ultratone, I could use the color channels to adjust the coolness and warmth of the inks. Alas, I've got a whole bunch of FSN inks that I'm working through, so playing with Ultratone inks isn't on my to-do list. Does anyone know whom should I contact about posting the FSN 1160 profiles?
2003-12-24 by Truman Prevatt
Did you use the Image Processing Toolbox or just stright old Matlab? Truman nevnevsf wrote: > - > > > > I programmed it in Matlab, and it isn't very user-friendly. > > I've been meaning to write up what I did, but haven't done it yet. The > algorythm is pretty straightforward, however. The main challenge in > creating an ICC profile for x-tone printing is dealing with the highly > non-one-to-one mapping between the tones the printer produces and the > RGB values sent to it - the same gray tone is produced by many > different RGB values. They key is to find the RGB values for each > lighness value that produces a gray which has minimal dot pattern. It > boils down to studying the pattern produced by the printer for each > RGB value sent to it, and choosing a trajectory in RGB space which has > minimal dot pattern. I tried to do it automatically, but it was easer > just to take 10 minutes and study the pattern manually. I then map > each point on that trajectory to a lighness value (the L* channel of > the L*a*b* space). This is done automatically by the program, after > scanning a few targets. The profile ignores the color (a*b*) channels. > For an variable mix inks, like Ultratone, I could use the color > channels to adjust the coolness and warmth of the inks. Alas, I've got > a whole bunch of FSN inks that I'm working through, so playing with > Ultratone inks isn't on my to-do list. > > Does anyone know whom should I contact about posting the FSN 1160 > profiles? > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from > the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the > Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-12-25 by nevnevsf
A bit of the image processing toolbox - just to load images. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@m...> wrote: > Did you use the Image Processing Toolbox or just stright old Matlab? > > Truman > > nevnevsf wrote: > > > - > > > > > > > I programmed it in Matlab, and it isn't very user-friendly. > > > > I've been meaning to write up what I did, but haven't done it yet. The > > algorythm is pretty straightforward, however. The main challenge in > > creating an ICC profile for x-tone printing is dealing with the highly > > non-one-to-one mapping between the tones the printer produces and the > > RGB values sent to it - the same gray tone is produced by many > > different RGB values. They key is to find the RGB values for each > > lighness value that produces a gray which has minimal dot pattern. It > > boils down to studying the pattern produced by the printer for each > > RGB value sent to it, and choosing a trajectory in RGB space which has > > minimal dot pattern. I tried to do it automatically, but it was easer > > just to take 10 minutes and study the pattern manually. I then map > > each point on that trajectory to a lighness value (the L* channel of > > the L*a*b* space). This is done automatically by the program, after > > scanning a few targets. The profile ignores the color (a*b*) channels. > > For an variable mix inks, like Ultratone, I could use the color > > channels to adjust the coolness and warmth of the inks. Alas, I've got > > a whole bunch of FSN inks that I'm working through, so playing with > > Ultratone inks isn't on my to-do list. > > > > Does anyone know whom should I contact about posting the FSN 1160 > > profiles? > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > > resources as they are often being updated. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > > this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > > keep them short. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from > > the membership without notice. > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > > removed from the membership. > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group > > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the > > Files section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" > > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE > > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE > > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, > > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF > > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD > > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? subject=Unsubscribe>
> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]