Epson "Greenies": any cure w/o going to dedicated system
2001-08-04 by Rick Schiller
Hi to all, I"m new to the BW Digital group. No doubt this has been covered extensively so my apoligies for rehashing this. I just sent my Epson 870 (6-color, 4p) back and will be buying either an Epson 890 or a Canon S800. When printing BW out on the 870, trying to get a neutral BW, it would invariabley print out with an ugly green cast. I tried many, many things both from Photoshop and in the Printer Driver software, all of which didn't get a neutral black/gray. The most accurate output I got from a Grayscale image was setting: PCM:on (which I would not do for color), and ICM profile checked in the advanced menu of the Epson. Still printed quite green but when reproduced by a photo duplicater (I shoot Headshots), would of course come out fine. Any thoughts from anyone or is it just necesary to go to a 4-ink (1160) dedicated quadtone Black&white system to achieve real Black & White output? best to all, Rick Schiller www.rickschiller.com
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----- Original Message -----
From: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 10:52 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Digest Number 17
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. RE: Panorama Wunder Papier? was Re: Eureka: Wunder Papier Found
From: "Nij" <nigel@...>
2. Re: Digital Negs
From: David Corwin <davidcorwin@...>
3. Re: Digital Negs
From: "Phil Bard" <phil@...>
4. Re: Re: Eureka: Wunder Papier Found
From: "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...>
5. Re: Panorama Paper
From: "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...>
6. Re: Arches Bright White
From: Dan Culbertson <danculb@...>
7. Hahnem\ufffdhle in Los Angeles, CA:Freestyle
From: antonisphoto@...
8. Buying Archival Matt/fading
From: allentakichi@...
9. Re: Duotone Workflows
From: mwesley250@...
10. Re: Panorama Paper
From: mwesley250@...
11. Re: Introducing myself.
From: mwesley250@...
12. Re: Panorama Paper
From: mwesley250@...
13. Re: Digest Number 8
From: mwesley250@...
14. Re: Digital Negs
From: mwesley250@...
15. Re: Digital Negs
From: mwesley250@...
16. Re: Panorama Paper
From: mwesley250@...
17. Epsons from abroad, was: Re: Digest Number 8
From: "Tim Spragens" <t.spragens@...>
18. Re: Re: Arches Bright White
From: "Tim Spragens" <t.spragens@...>
19. (Fwd) Jazz: PhotoMesa - A Zoomable Image Browser
From: "Tim Spragens" <t.spragens@...>
20. Re: Duotone Workflows
From: tyork@...
21. Re: Digital Negs
From: Bill Morse <willym@...>
22. Re: Re: Introducing myself.
From: "Rodolpho Pajuaba" <rodolpho@...>
23. Re: Buying Archival Matt/fading
From: Jerry Olson <jerryolson@...>
24. Re: Buying Archival Matt/fading
From: tyork@...
25. Re: Buying Archival Matt/fading
From: Jerry Olson <jerryolson@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:27:36 +0100
From: "Nij" <nigel@...>
Subject: RE: Panorama Wunder Papier? was Re: Eureka: Wunder Papier Found
I spoke to a Hahnemuhle representative today - he will be sending me some
samples of the new paper (I am way behind in that respect!) I'm afraid I
forgot to ask about narrower rolls, but they did confirm that the new paper
is available in 24" rolls - it's not publicised as much as the 36" + rolls.
Also, Gernam Etching, Torchon, William Turner 310, Albrecht Durer 210.
No prices available for the new paper in the UK yet... expect developments
within the next 2-3 weeks.
Nij
-----Original Message-----
From: mwesley250@... [mailto:mwesley250@...]
Sent: 03 August 2001 18:30
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Panorama Wunder Papier? was Re: Eureka: Wunder
Papier Found
Bernd,
You since you have contact with Hahnemule, would you be kind enough
to ask them about the possibility of obtaining the new paper in 13"
and 17" rolls? Do they have a process for special ordering something
like this?
Thanks
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> Steadman,
> just couldn\ufffdt resist to make you a little jealous ;-)
>
> Some minutes ago, I got my Photo Rag 308gsm sample sheets
> from Hahnem\ufffdhle.
> 8 sheets of DIN A 2 (16"x23").
> Now, how shall I use this treasure.
> So many questions:
> First: what shall I print?
> And then: what profile. How many sheets shall I cut down
> and....shall I use one or two for color, hhmmmm....?
> No,no, no.... no color, or?
>
> To be serious:
> though Hahnem\ufffdhle says the coating is identicall to German
> Etching, they told me, the surface is a little brighter. At first
glance
> I can\ufffdt see the difference. but maybe the Orwell profile won\ufffdt fit
> automatically best. It seems that the CTM profile was best for
> you. Did you try others than Orwell meanwhile?
> Help me not to waste ink and paper.
> Thanks
> Bernd
>
> PS
> Hahnemuhle told me, they are just making the paper ready to
> ship. It isn\ufffdt shipped yet in quantities (just samples), but will
be
> shipped to resellers mid to late August. So everybody be happy if
> you have some German Etching in stock.
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:37:38 +0000
From: David Corwin <davidcorwin@...>
Subject: Re: Digital Negs
on 8/3/01 8:06 PM PST, Phil Bard wrote:
> Point of clarification, apparently the digital negs they produce for
> enlargement purposes are created not on the Lightjet but a (Fuji?) Film
> Recorder 2080.
Phil-
Out of curiosity, have you tried the LVT film recorder at Bowhaus? (Not
that I have, but they have such a great rep). Wonder what kind of film
recorder Bowhaus uses. You have a choice of outputting to T-Max, Velvia,
Provia, Ektachrome, and Portra, 4x5 or 8x10.
David Corwin
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 22:14:58 -0000
From: "Phil Bard" <phil@...>
Subject: Re: Digital Negs
This is a question for Antonis. He has a lot of experience with them.
My impression is that the LVT has dynamic range limitations...
Phil
> Phil-
> Out of curiosity, have you tried the LVT film recorder at Bowhaus? (Not
> that I have, but they have such a great rep). Wonder what kind of film
> recorder Bowhaus uses. You have a choice of outputting to T-Max, Velvia,
> Provia, Ektachrome, and Portra, 4x5 or 8x10.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:31:02 -0500
From: "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Eureka: Wunder Papier Found
Greetings Bernd!
Yes, you made me jealous! (grin)
So to make up for it....why don't you use your ample stock of sample sheets
and test several profiles for us all....
I tested only the Orwell and CT Matte profiles and they looked very similar
but the CTM was preferable for the image I used. But very good results with
either one. I chose Orwell becuase HWRS is probably going to be my
replacement for Orwell...and it is similar in weight.
I chose CTMatte because I wanted to do a direct comparison with the EAM
using the same profile. Also, the HWRS is so smooth, it is most like the
Han. Matte and EAM in surface....of course that may not make a bit of
difference due to different coatings from EAM.
If I had paper to burn, I would probably try Somerset Enhanced Profile,
Concorde Rag profile. So those four would be a good spread I would think.
I just looked at those two test prints a few minutes ago and I believe it
will be very difficult to improve on the image quality...very difficult. So
I would not waste any time/paper on trying every other profile. I did that
with Extreme Gamut Satine and over 20 profiles. Many of them are very
similar.
Best of luck to you and post your results and comments when you
print....just remember to do a test using the same image file on HWRS and
EAM (and others)...and don't forget to do a head alignment each time before
changing papers (I always print a head aligment and nozzle check on the back
of each paper sample I test). Those head alignments make a big difference.
Have fun,
Steadman
----- Original Message -----
From: ruhrfoto@...
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 8:49 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Eureka: Wunder Papier Found
Steadman,
just couldn\ufffdt resist to make you a little jealous ;-)
Some minutes ago, I got my Photo Rag 308gsm sample sheets
from Hahnem\ufffdhle.
8 sheets of DIN A 2 (16"x23").
Now, how shall I use this treasure.
So many questions:
First: what shall I print?
And then: what profile. How many sheets shall I cut down
and....shall I use one or two for color, hhmmmm....?
No,no, no.... no color, or?
To be serious:
though Hahnem\ufffdhle says the coating is identicall to German
Etching, they told me, the surface is a little brighter. At first glance
I can\ufffdt see the difference. but maybe the Orwell profile won\ufffdt fit
automatically best. It seems that the CTM profile was best for
you. Did you try others than Orwell meanwhile?
Help me not to waste ink and paper.
Thanks
Bernd
PS
Hahnemuhle told me, they are just making the paper ready to
ship. It isn\ufffdt shipped yet in quantities (just samples), but will be
shipped to resellers mid to late August. So everybody be happy if
you have some German Etching in stock.
If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
unsubscribe by sending an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:25:40 -0500
From: "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...>
Subject: Re: Panorama Paper
Martin,
I follow your thinking.
But I differ. I think it would not be too hard to take a 36" wide roll,
unroll a 36" length, cut it to that length, take that to a flat surface, get
a 36" yard stick, measure, mark paper, hold yardstick to paper and use as a
straightedge, cut into 13" wide strips with a rotary trimmer.
Cutting mat board straight is tough. 300gsm paper will be easy using the
right tools.
Rotary Trimmer:
Go to a Michaels art store or similar and get a handheld rotary trimmer for
about $6. They are made by fiskars and others and used by crafters (people
who make quilts of fabric and scrapbooks and paper crafts). These rotary
trimmers even have interchangeable wheels so you could make your paper cute
on the edge with scalloped edges (grin) or even put a faux "deckle edge" on
the strip of paper.
Use a piece of mat board or foamcore under your paper.They look like a pizza
cutter (that could work too) and work wonders if used with a straightedge.
Cheap and efficient. Keep the rest on the roll for storage.
That is what I would/will do.
Regards,
Steadman
----- Original Message -----
From: mwesley250@...
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Panorama Paper
Steadman,
You're absolutely right about the Epson roll adapters for the desktop
models. I unfortunately bought the roll adapter for my 1270 and I
doubt its ability to handle even Epson's paper! Probably fine for
mass producing family snap shots off a 4" roll but not for heavy
papers.
I thought about cutting 13" X 36" strips off of 36" wide rolls but
you would need a good cutter. I don't think that the desktop printers
would tolerate much variation in paper width if you couldn't get a
straight cut.
I might be able to do it with my mat cutter. A 36" Rotatrim would be
better but cost about $365. Of course you could buy a Rotatrim 99"
DIGITECH CUTTER for about $1,000 and get just about anything you
wanted out of any current rolls or sheets. Aside from the cost there
is the old where do I put it when I'm not using it issue.
I would just as soon have a paper in a 13" wide roll I could cut at
any length with the 20" Rotatrim I already have.
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
<steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> I think the best cost effective solution is buy the roll, cut off
the 36 inch length and hand feed it. Roll adaptors made for photo
(lightweight paper) are probably not built to handle a heavy
roll...longterm. also, skip the roll adaptor...save more money for
more paper!
>
> Steadman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mwesley250@e...
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:03 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Panorama Paper
>
>
> Earlier the issue of panorama paper was brought up by John
Brownlow
> (Post #46) and I don't want the thread to die out without an
answer.
> While there are art paper options for the big printers in rolls
there
> is a need for Panorama sized paper for the desktop models.
>
> In checking around the web I have not turned up anything at all,
> nothing.
>
> Does anyone know of any quality paper that is being sold in say a
> 13X26 or longer size? Or better yet 13" or 17" rolls? (Epson
makes
> the Photo Paper in 4" and 13"(?) rolls I believe but this is not
my
> idea of quality paper. Jump in if you disagree.)
>
> If not, is there anyway to special order from any of the major
> manufacturers/suppliers like Crane, Hahnemule, Arches, Legion,
> Brightcube, Lyson, Hawk Mountain, Lumijet, etc..?
>
> This is a tough one because while there are roll adapters for the
> desktop printers they definitely were not designed for a nice 310
gsm
> paper so there is no obvious motivation to supply rolls!
>
> But if there were 13" and 17" wide rolls of art paper you could
just
> cut off the length you wanted and hand feed it. That way you
could do
> 1:2, 1:3, 1:4, or 1:? panorama's as desired.
>
> Any ideas on how to get something like this?
>
> It would be really great to have a 12" by 36" B&W print matted
and
> framed up on the wall!!!
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:39:40 -0700
From: Dan Culbertson <danculb@...>
Subject: Re: Arches Bright White
> And a few other no doubt expensive papers that look like they
> would be worth exploring. Has anyone come up with a home-brew
> coating for printing on art papers?
Don't laugh, these work pretty good -- pain in the rear to do though.
For pigment inks or dye inks that won't work with gelatin (see below) use
liquid egg whites (albumen). Break the slight gloss with a few drops of
Maalox in the egg white solution.
For dye inks use Knox gelatin. Soak the paper in the gelatin solution and
hang to dry or brush on multiple thin coatings. Probably could use some
sort of roller as well but I always sort of liked the residual brush
strokes. Note that not all dye based inks work with gelatin - Wide Spectrum
and Spectratones work fine with it. Under some conditions you may have to
moisturize the paper before printing since a heavy gelatin coating tends to
get pretty hard. Possibly the below recipe I found would be better and not
harden so much but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
From http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~mukluk/misc.html
Part of a Carbon Process printing recipe.
Mix together
110 parts gelatin
25 parts sugar
12 parts dry soap
350 parts water
Finally - there is some sort of chemical that folks add to prevent mold
growth and insect problems. Don't remember what it is though. My
experiments didn't need preserving -- they were just experiments, better off
as roach food.
Dan Culbertson
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:02:14 -0000
From: antonisphoto@...
Subject: Hahnem\ufffdhle in Los Angeles, CA:Freestyle
I was very surprised today to find the whole range of Hahnem\ufffdhle papers
packaged under their original manufacturer name available on the shelves at=
Freestyle, a well known photo supply house. My surprise was both because I=
saw everything in their original names, but also because of the easy acces=
s
for those of us in LA. Hence I am posting this right away.
I haven't done the price comparisons yet. I am putting all this in the pap=
er
database and will tally the results later (and post an upgrade when ready).=
This isn't meant as a "plug" for Freestyle, neither am I associated with t=
hem in
any capacity. Just good news that we have one more paper source!
http://www.freestylesalesco.com/
Antonis
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:22:32 -0000
From: allentakichi@...
Subject: Buying Archival Matt/fading
Jerry,
Exactly what are your test conditions?
Specifically, is your test paper directly up to
the window glass? What is your humidity
like? How much sun are you getting and do
you have plain old normal single strength
glass???
I think that I'm seeing oxidation of the
Generations Enhanced inkset especially in
the K and clost to K patchs due to me
introducing artificially high temperatures.
I've taped the latest batch of test swatches
directly to the window.
I've crimped the paper so there is an airspace
between the glass and the test paper but I've
now come to the conclusion that it's
inadequate and I'm introducing a high heat
related premature fading that has little to do
with light fading. I've got pretty good
humidity here which may be a crucial
cofactor.
I have always pinned my patches to
foamcore and held it a couple of inches from
the glass and looking up older records, I
show much longer results then I'm getting
right now in this kind of quick informal
testing.
Thanks,
Allen Maertz
lincolninks.com
.
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:31:52 -0500
From: Jerry Olson <jerryolson@...>
Subject: Re: Buying Archival Matt
No fading for at least 2 months in a south
window in North Dakota!
Generations is really good on Epson
Archival Matte, one of the best. (Up
here).
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:44:31 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Duotone Workflows
Tim,
Give this a try. Just a starting point.
Convert a grayscale to RGB.
Create a Levels adjustment layer. Switch to the Red channel and set
the center gamma slider to about 1.10.
Create a second Levels layer and set the Blue gamma to 1.10.
Vary the Opacity of the two adjustment layers to get the tone you
want.
Unless your monitor is closely color calibrated there will be a lot
of trial printing to get the tone you want.
Because of the lot to lot variations in ink and paper there is not
firm point for these kinds of adjustments, or at least I have not
found any yet. This method give more subtle control than just the
channel adjustments. If you get a split tone, do tone selections and
adjust those seperately.
No formula, but perhaps a place to start.
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Hi Allen,
>
> Thank you for your suggestions. I would like to achieve a b/w with
as
> close to a selenium look as possible. I know that is difficult
> because of it's subjectivity but I think you know what i mean. The
> blue/purplish blacks and deep,rich grays that you could almost
scoop
> the gray out of. Paper plays a big part to the look I'm trying to
> achieve, but if I can come close I will be happy.
> Using the duotones will also allow me to print color when I
> need/want to. If I can't get this then I will buy a second printer,
> but that still wouldn't get me my selenium-toned prints. Thanks
again.
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., allentakichi@e... wrote:
> > Tim,
> >
> > The Blatner and Frasier book is invaluable
> > for understanding color management and
> > how photoshop works and I'd recommend it
> > even if you had zero interest in duotones.
> >
> > I get the feeling that you are actually
> > interested in duotone simulations using the
> > colored inks. This and neutral printing with
> > colored inks is probably the ultimate difficult
> > thing to do well. That's why a real duotone,
> > tritone or quadtone solution is valuable.
> > Harder to start but easy to print once set up.
> >
> > I did get Yarc to write a 6 color independent
> > manual channel driver option for their RIP
> > for the Spectratones before they kinda
> > dissapeared.
> >
> > Anyway if you want to do duotone
> > simulations, "just" get a neutral grayscale,
> > the adjust the color cast in curves in the
> > individual rgb channels. It's direct, simple
> > but difficult to do well image to image.
> >
> > I doubt there is an easier answer.
> >
> > Allen Maertz
> > lincolninks.com
> >
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0000
> > From: tyork@a...
> > Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim
> > York: re:papers
> >
> > Martin,
> >
> > As I mentioned I e-mailed View Camera but
> > they didn't know anything
> > about the article. I'm not sure where to go
> > now. I read Allen's
> > comment to you but don't have the book. Oh
> > well, C'est la vie.
> >
> > Tim
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:48:19 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Panorama Paper
John,
Sounds interesting. Did you get the design off the web or is this
your own invention?
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Johnny Deadman <john@p...>
wrote:
> on 8/3/01 1:35 PM, mwesley250@e... at mwesley250@e...
> wrote:
>
> > Is that a camera mount?
>
> yes a mount which holds the camera vertical with the nodal point of
the lens
> over the axis of rotation. Mine is made of wood with settings for a
17mm and
> 24mm lens mounted on my T90, and has a rotator built in to it, plus
quick
> release clamps for both camera and mount (the most expensive part
of the
> rig!).
>
> Sounds much more complicated than it is. It removes parallax
problems.
>
>
> --
> John Brownlow
>
> http://www.pinkheadedbug.com
>
> ICQ: 109343205
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:53:25 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Introducing myself.
Welcome Rudolpho,
It is nice to see that the group is literally spanning the globe
already. I enjoyed your site and the cyanotypes. I wish I could see
them in person.
I would also be interested in your workflow in going straight from
digital to B&W output. Do you shoot in B&W mode or do you convert to
B&W in photoshop? What method are you using to make the negatives for
the cyanotype prints?
Martin Wesley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Rodolpho Pajuaba
<rodolpho@p...> wrote:
> Hello, all,
> This is my first post to the group, I want to introduce myself:
> My name is Rodolpho Pajuaba, I'm a photographer in Curitiba,
Brazil, and I
> work with digital photography for three and half years now, with a
> MegaVision S2 digital Back. My main interest in the
Black&white/Digital mix
> is to make good big negatives to work on cyanotypes and
palladium/platinum
> prints. Some of this job can be seen on my website,
www.pajuaba.com.br (it's
> in portuguese), under "ensaios".
> --
> Regards,
> Rodolpho Pajuaba
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:54:31 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Panorama Paper
Thanks for the tip! It looks a little friendier to get started with.
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Rodolpho Pajuaba
<rodolpho@p...> wrote:
>
> >
> > These are the tools I was referring to. They do a wonderful job,
though it
> > takes some headscratching at first. One day someone will wrap a
slick
> > interface around them and charge a thousand dollars for it.
> >
> Actually, there is a very good interface for Dr. Dersch's tools,
called
> PTGui.(www.ptgui.com) It's last version is shareware (about US$
40,00), but
> is windows only. To work with them on the Mac, one should use the
PTPicker
> (which comes in the package), it's the easiest entry to this
software.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Rodolpho Pajuaba
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 05:00:11 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Digest Number 8
Victoria, Bernd,
Thank you for checking. While not the easiest way to go if 1160's can
be found in the U.S., the non-U.S. sources could become a way get a
new 1160 as the supply dindles here. In fact here is a great
opportunity for a "gray market" importer!
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Victoria Bampton"
<victoria_bampton@c...> wrote:
> Great idea Martin.
>
> I couldn't find a voltage switch, but the sticker on the back says
220-240v
> ~ 50-60hz 0.2A, if that makes any sense to you. :)
>
> Victoria
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mwesley250@e... [mailto:mwesley250@e...]
> Sent: 2 August 2001 11:58 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digest Number 8
>
>
> Roger,
>
> Victoria's message made me think to check Epson's main website and
> various country sites. The 1160 appears in their product line up
> everywhere I checked except the US. So it looks like the 1160 is
> still in production but not for sale in the US. You could probably
> get a new one from Europe or Australia. Both the UK and Australia
> sites listed retail web stores.
>
> Did not see the 1200 anywhere but it may have a different model
> number.
>
> Of course you would have to pay more in shiping and some import
duty.
> One other thing to watch out for would be electrical requirements.
> Most of Europe is on 250V, 50Hz rather than 125V, 60Hz but a lot
of
> electronics have switches to select the voltage.
>
> Question for any EU 1160 owners. Does your 1160 have a voltage
> selection switch and what plug adapters came with it?
>
> Martin
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Victoria Bampton"
> <victoria_bampton@c...> wrote:
> > Roger
> >
> > Where are you? I'm in the UK, and the other day I spotted that
> Dabs.com
> > still had them available.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Victoria
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Smith [mailto:rbsmith@t...]
> > Sent: 2 August 2001 12:26 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digest Number 8
> >
> >
> > I'm wanting to set up for B&W and have been told that the best
> printer in
> > this size range is the Epson 1160. They are out of production
> and I can't
> > seem to find a referb one. Does anyone have advise on where I
> might
> > locate
> > one of these? I use a 1200 for color but think I want to try
the
> curves
> > developed by people on the list for B&W so I need a 1160 or
1280,
> I'd
> > prefer
> > the 1160 if I can find one. What a great list! Just what
I've
> been
> > looking
> > for. Thanks.
> >
> > Roger Smith
> >
> >
> > If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you
may
> > unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 05:22:04 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Digital Negs
Phil,
By now you are hopefully in Oakhurst having a great time.
I checked A&I's site and it is a Lightjet 2080 which was made by
Cymbologic. Cymbologic doesn't list it on their website so I wonder
if it is out of production.
A Yahoo search on "Lightjet 2080" turned up a few mentions of other
service bureaus that have them. Nancy scans has one but does not
mention B&W. Found a deal on two used ones, a 1996 and 1997. If you
have a spare $39,400 you could have one in your studio. No wonder the
output costs a bit!
I like A&I's reply. You really are doing a system calibration from
camera-scan-monitor-(proof printer)-digital neg-enlarger-print which
is a rather long chain.
A rough idea for a possible calibration workflow:
Get a 4X5 Stauffer step tablet
Measure all the steps with a densitometer
Enlarge it onto your favorite #2 paper at the size you anticipate so
that the print Dmin falls at least three steps from the end of the
scale.
Raw scan the step tablet
Take it into Photoshop and in levels put the white point on the step
that gave paper Dmax and the black point on the step that gave paper
Dmin.
Output this file to the Lightjet 2080
Output the raw scan of the step tablet to the 2080.
Record the density of all the steps on these step tablets.
Hopefully this would give you enough information to create a transfer
function to map from a negative/scan to Lightjet output.
I may be missing something here, but it might be a way to go simplify
the system calibration.
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Phil Bard" <phil@p...>
wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I won't have anything to report on the tests I'm conducting with
A&I
> until early next week. I spoke with them moments ago and they said
> film should be ready this afternoon, but I'm off to the Piezo
Summit
> and won't be able to pick it up.
>
> Point of clarification, apparently the digital negs they produce
for
> enlargement purposes are created not on the Lightjet but a (Fuji?)
Film
> Recorder 2080. The Lightjet outputs Duratrans (as well as print
> media), but not camera film, and therefore is not suitable for my
> purposes. Sorry for the misinformation, my initial meetings with
them
> took place along with a fellow photographer who is testing their
print
> output, and the specifics as to what device was doing what were not
> clarified. I'm now dealing with the operators and getting my info
> straight from them.
>
> They have stressed all along, however, and I should make this
clear,
> that the initial phases of this process take time. Everyone's film
and
> enlarger combination is a bit different and they have to make
several
> runs to get into sync with their client. You would have to expect
the
> same should you decide to go this route.
>
> Have a great weekend, and I'll see some of you, no doubt, in
Oakhurst.
>
> Phil
> http://philbard.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 05:27:04 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Digital Negs
David,
I couldn't find much on the 2080 on the web but one blurb claimed
that there was superior alighnment of the RGB lasers over the LVT
giving enhanced sharpness. Wish there was more info on this.
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., David Corwin
<davidcorwin@h...> wrote:
> on 8/3/01 8:06 PM PST, Phil Bard wrote:
>
> > Point of clarification, apparently the digital negs they produce
for
> > enlargement purposes are created not on the Lightjet but a
(Fuji?) Film
> > Recorder 2080.
>
> Phil-
> Out of curiosity, have you tried the LVT film recorder at Bowhaus?
(Not
> that I have, but they have such a great rep). Wonder what kind of
film
> recorder Bowhaus uses. You have a choice of outputting to T-Max,
Velvia,
> Provia, Ektachrome, and Portra, 4x5 or 8x10.
>
> David Corwin
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 05:43:15 -0000
From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Re: Panorama Paper
Steadman,
Well I did use to cut mat board with a straight edge and an Exacto
knife. If you cut two 13" wide strips off the two finished edges you
would have one perfect edge on each sheet.
The rotary trimmer sounds interesting.
This would probably work for the size panoramas I had in mind, 1:3 so
13x36 would be nice. For what John had in mind I don't know. A 360
Spinshot at a 1:7 or 1:8 would need about 13 by 90.
Come to think of it though isn't there a length limit with the Epson
desktop printers at 44". You could probably hand cut to that length.
Thanks for the good ideas. I think I need to decide what paper I want
to settle on before I buy a 36" roll and attack it.
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
<steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> Martin,
> I follow your thinking.
>
> But I differ. I think it would not be too hard to take a 36" wide
roll, unroll a 36" length, cut it to that length, take that to a flat
surface, get a 36" yard stick, measure, mark paper, hold yardstick to
paper and use as a straightedge, cut into 13" wide strips with a
rotary trimmer.
>
> Cutting mat board straight is tough. 300gsm paper will be easy
using the right tools.
>
> Rotary Trimmer:
> Go to a Michaels art store or similar and get a handheld rotary
trimmer for about $6. They are made by fiskars and others and used by
crafters (people who make quilts of fabric and scrapbooks and paper
crafts). These rotary trimmers even have interchangeable wheels so
you could make your paper cute on the edge with scalloped edges
(grin) or even put a faux "deckle edge" on the strip of paper.
>
> Use a piece of mat board or foamcore under your paper.They look
like a pizza cutter (that could work too) and work wonders if used
with a straightedge. Cheap and efficient. Keep the rest on the roll
for storage.
>
> That is what I would/will do.
>
> Regards,
> Steadman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mwesley250@e...
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Panorama Paper
>
>
> Steadman,
>
> You're absolutely right about the Epson roll adapters for the
desktop
> models. I unfortunately bought the roll adapter for my 1270 and I
> doubt its ability to handle even Epson's paper! Probably fine for
> mass producing family snap shots off a 4" roll but not for heavy
> papers.
>
> I thought about cutting 13" X 36" strips off of 36" wide rolls
but
> you would need a good cutter. I don't think that the desktop
printers
> would tolerate much variation in paper width if you couldn't get
a
> straight cut.
>
> I might be able to do it with my mat cutter. A 36" Rotatrim would
be
> better but cost about $365. Of course you could buy a Rotatrim
99"
> DIGITECH CUTTER for about $1,000 and get just about anything you
> wanted out of any current rolls or sheets. Aside from the cost
there
> is the old where do I put it when I'm not using it issue.
>
> I would just as soon have a paper in a 13" wide roll I could cut
at
> any length with the 20" Rotatrim I already have.
>
> Martin
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
> <steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> > I think the best cost effective solution is buy the roll, cut
off
> the 36 inch length and hand feed it. Roll adaptors made for
photo
> (lightweight paper) are probably not built to handle a heavy
> roll...longterm. also, skip the roll adaptor...save more money
for
> more paper!
> >
> > Steadman
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: mwesley250@e...
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:03 PM
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Panorama Paper
> >
> >
> > Earlier the issue of panorama paper was brought up by John
> Brownlow
> > (Post #46) and I don't want the thread to die out without an
> answer.
> > While there are art paper options for the big printers in
rolls
> there
> > is a need for Panorama sized paper for the desktop models.
> >
> > In checking around the web I have not turned up anything at
all,
> > nothing.
> >
> > Does anyone know of any quality paper that is being sold in
say a
> > 13X26 or longer size? Or better yet 13" or 17" rolls? (Epson
> makes
> > the Photo Paper in 4" and 13"(?) rolls I believe but this is
not
> my
> > idea of quality paper. Jump in if you disagree.)
> >
> > If not, is there anyway to special order from any of the
major
> > manufacturers/suppliers like Crane, Hahnemule, Arches,
Legion,
> > Brightcube, Lyson, Hawk Mountain, Lumijet, etc..?
> >
> > This is a tough one because while there are roll adapters for
the
> > desktop printers they definitely were not designed for a nice
310
> gsm
> > paper so there is no obvious motivation to supply rolls!
> >
> > But if there were 13" and 17" wide rolls of art paper you
could
> just
> > cut off the length you wanted and hand feed it. That way you
> could do
> > 1:2, 1:3, 1:4, or 1:? panorama's as desired.
> >
> > Any ideas on how to get something like this?
> >
> > It would be really great to have a 12" by 36" B&W print
matted
> and
> > framed up on the wall!!!
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you
may
> > unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:53:28 +0100
From: "Tim Spragens" <t.spragens@...>
Subject: Epsons from abroad, was: Re: Digest Number 8
> a way get a
> new 1160 as the supply dindles here. In fact here is a great
> opportunity for a "gray market" importer!
I fear there would be liability risks here, unless the importer wanted
to rework the printers to work on US voltage. I also wonder if the
printers here are just stock moving slower through the pipeline,
rather than new printers supplied by Epson.
Tim
--
Tim Spragens
http://www.borderless-photos.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:53:28 +0100
From: "Tim Spragens" <t.spragens@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Arches Bright White
Thanks for the tips! A new medium - "Digital Albumen Prints"
sounds impressive. I wonder if I'll ever find the time to try.
I assume that the soap is used to break surface tension, what
does the sugar do? Was it boric acid that was used as the insect
inhibitor?
Tim
> Don't laugh, these work pretty good -- pain in the rear to do though.
--
Tim Spragens
http://www.borderless-photos.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:16:51 +0100
From: "Tim Spragens" <t.spragens@...>
Subject: (Fwd) Jazz: PhotoMesa - A Zoomable Image Browser
For those of you interested in software. The article is interesting,
but I doubt I'll find the time to do much with the program itself. I
would be interested to hear if anyone tries it.
Tim
------- Forwarded message follows -------
From: "Bederson, Ben" <bederson@...>
To: "Jazz Announce (E-mail)" <jazz-announce@...>
Subject: Jazz: PhotoMesa - A Zoomable Image Browser
Date sent: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:04:41 -0400
Hello Jazz'ers,
I've written a Jazz-based application for browsing photos called
PhotoMesa. It uses Treemaps to group photos by directory, and
provides a simple interface for zooming in and out of photos. It was
just written up by Sun and is featured on the Java home page. You
can read the article at
http://java.sun.com/features/2001/08/photomesa.html
or download
photomesa at http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/photomesa
(Sorry to bother folks on jazz-chat who have seen this. I realized I
had never told the broader list about PhotoMesa).
- Ben
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Prof. Ben Bederson Director, Human-Computer Interaction
Lab |
| bederson@... Computer Science Department
|
| www.cs.umd.edu/~bederson 3171 A.V. Williams Building
|
| (301) 405-2764 University of Maryland |
| (301) 405-6707 (FAX) College Park, MD 20742 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
------- End of forwarded message -------
--
Tim Spragens
http://www.borderless-photos.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 20
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 11:42:00 -0000
From: tyork@...
Subject: Re: Duotone Workflows
Hi Martin,
Thank you for your suggestion. I am grateful for any and all help. If
I can get close to the quality I saw in that seleniun print years ago
I will be a happy camper. When I get something that I feel is pretty
good I will be glad to share it with the list as a kind of payback
for the help you guys have given me. Thanks again.
Tim
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Give this a try. Just a starting point.
>
> Convert a grayscale to RGB.
>
> Create a Levels adjustment layer. Switch to the Red channel and set
> the center gamma slider to about 1.10.
>
> Create a second Levels layer and set the Blue gamma to 1.10.
>
> Vary the Opacity of the two adjustment layers to get the tone you
> want.
>
> Unless your monitor is closely color calibrated there will be a lot
> of trial printing to get the tone you want.
>
> Because of the lot to lot variations in ink and paper there is not
> firm point for these kinds of adjustments, or at least I have not
> found any yet. This method give more subtle control than just the
> channel adjustments. If you get a split tone, do tone selections
and
> adjust those seperately.
>
> No formula, but perhaps a place to start.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> > Hi Allen,
> >
> > Thank you for your suggestions. I would like to achieve a b/w
with
> as
> > close to a selenium look as possible. I know that is difficult
> > because of it's subjectivity but I think you know what i mean.
The
> > blue/purplish blacks and deep,rich grays that you could almost
> scoop
> > the gray out of. Paper plays a big part to the look I'm trying to
> > achieve, but if I can come close I will be happy.
> > Using the duotones will also allow me to print color when I
> > need/want to. If I can't get this then I will buy a second
printer,
> > but that still wouldn't get me my selenium-toned prints. Thanks
> again.
> >
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., allentakichi@e... wrote:
> > > Tim,
> > >
> > > The Blatner and Frasier book is invaluable
> > > for understanding color management and
> > > how photoshop works and I'd recommend it
> > > even if you had zero interest in duotones.
> > >
> > > I get the feeling that you are actually
> > > interested in duotone simulations using the
> > > colored inks. This and neutral printing with
> > > colored inks is probably the ultimate difficult
> > > thing to do well. That's why a real duotone,
> > > tritone or quadtone solution is valuable.
> > > Harder to start but easy to print once set up.
> > >
> > > I did get Yarc to write a 6 color independent
> > > manual channel driver option for their RIP
> > > for the Spectratones before they kinda
> > > dissapeared.
> > >
> > > Anyway if you want to do duotone
> > > simulations, "just" get a neutral grayscale,
> > > the adjust the color cast in curves in the
> > > individual rgb channels. It's direct, simple
> > > but difficult to do well image to image.
> > >
> > > I doubt there is an easier answer.
> > >
> > > Allen Maertz
> > > lincolninks.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0000
> > > From: tyork@a...
> > > Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim
> > > York: re:papers
> > >
> > > Martin,
> > >
> > > As I mentioned I e-mailed View Camera but
> > > they didn't know anything
> > > about the article. I'm not sure where to go
> > > now. I read Allen's
> > > comment to you but don't have the book. Oh
> > > well, C'est la vie.
> > >
> > > Tim
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 21
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 08:21:29 -0400
From: Bill Morse <willym@...>
Subject: Re: Digital Negs
David-
Bowhaus uses a Kodak LVT- I have had great success with it, primarily w/
T-max 4x5's 80 res, enlarged to 20x24 and above. It's a great service.
(wish I could say the same about their scans, but that's another story...)
Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, Mass.
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., David Corwin
<davidcorwin@h...> wrote:
> Phil-
> Out of curiosity, have you tried the LVT film recorder at Bowhaus?
(Not
> that I have, but they have such a great rep). Wonder what kind of
film
> recorder Bowhaus uses. You have a choice of outputting to T-Max,
Velvia,
> Provia, Ektachrome, and Portra, 4x5 or 8x10.
>
> David Corwin
If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
unsubscribe by sending an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 22
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:53:45 -0300
From: "Rodolpho Pajuaba" <rodolpho@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Introducing myself.
> Welcome Rudolpho,
>
> It is nice to see that the group is literally spanning the globe
> already. I enjoyed your site and the cyanotypes. I wish I could see
> them in person.
>
> I would also be interested in your workflow in going straight from
> digital to B&W output. Do you shoot in B&W mode or do you convert to
> B&W in photoshop? What method are you using to make the negatives for
> the cyanotype prints?
>
> Martin Wesley
>
Thanks for the kind words.
Regarding my workflow:
I shoot normally, in RGB, and convert to Grayscale as the last step, after
sizing, sharpening , whatever needed. I use to convert using Channel Mixer
if I remember, it\ufffds Image>Adjust>Channel Mixer in PS). Check the
"Monochrome" box, and play with the channels until the densities are in the
right place. The negatives for those cyanotypes were done on my Epson 850,
on transparency. I liked the mood, and the inkjet "grain", because I wanted
to achieve a high contrast output, but for a softer, more detailed in
shadows and highlights I\ufffdd output in press-printing film from a bureau, or
use a better printer ;-) .
Rodolpho Pajuaba
www.pajuaba.com.br
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 23
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 11:10:36 -0500
From: Jerry Olson <jerryolson@...>
Subject: Re: Buying Archival Matt/fading
Nothing fancy Allen.
My tests are only to compare one inkset with another and to see how long
each lasts before beginning to fade, shift, change color, etc. I use just a
small piece of scotch tape in the top middle of the print, so over time the
print curls a bit. I mostly just use Epson's Archival matte paper. I know
these aren't scientific tests or even close to it. I just want to see which
inksets last the longest before starting to show changes. The MIS Variable
tone inks With Paul Roark's Curves were first. The piezo ink with the
generations cyan and magenta added to the yellow position to make coldtones
were second. (Very close, either one rates very good). Regular piezo was
third. Generations Color inks were the best color inks I tested, but have
not used the MIS or Piezo color inks yet. The new 1280 epson original color
inks withstood 2 months before I could see any change at all, even then, it
was the paper that turned ivory colored, and not the inks.
The picture window faces South, it's about 6x8 feet in area, and has 2 panes
of heavy glass. I figure if the print can withstand 2 months of sunny north
dakota weather that they will last a long time under normal room lighting.
I've never had any inkset change color, or fade under normal room light,
except the original Stylus color 800 color printer inks of about 5 years
ago. Those prints are toast. Totally faded, color shifted, and worthless.
And they've all been kept in a dark box.
Humidity varies from about 35 to 60 percent depending on the time of year.
> I don't think any inkset on the market combined with any paper will
> actually show an image totally unchanged in 25 years. I really don't.
> There are far far too many variables that can affect both ink AND paper.
> In North Dakota we have a very low level of pollution, no ozone pollution
> as far as I know. We do have A Sugar refining plant and a potato plant
> that gives off odors that will melt the chrome off a car bumper, so God
> only knows what they will do to a print a few years down the line.
> I have always pinned my patches to
> foamcore and held it a couple of inches from
> the glass and looking up older records, I
> show much longer results then I'm getting
> right now in this kind of quick informal
> testing.
I've never done precise testing, Just what I mention above. It is only to
see which inksets last the longest for a couple months before something
changes.
I have had an original piezo print in my car's rear shelf for 1 year.
(yesterday was the 365th day). No Fading, but it can only be called a full
fledged sepia toned print now. The bad thing is the paper itself gets much
more ivory colored than it was when printed, and this makes the highlights
in the print the same color as the paper is now, which makes the print less
than wonderful.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 24
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:22:50 -0000
From: tyork@...
Subject: Re: Buying Archival Matt/fading
Hi Jerry,
Please let me know how your tests turn out on the color inks. What
are the color gamut's like? How would you rate the color inks,gamut,
longevity etc.? As you know I'm trying to decide on my color inks as
the last piece of the puzzle for me. Thank you.
Tim
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Nothing fancy Allen.
>
> My tests are only to compare one inkset with another and to see how
long
> each lasts before beginning to fade, shift, change color, etc. I
use just a
> small piece of scotch tape in the top middle of the print, so over
time the
> print curls a bit. I mostly just use Epson's Archival matte paper.
I know
> these aren't scientific tests or even close to it. I just want to
see which
> inksets last the longest before starting to show changes. The MIS
Variable
> tone inks With Paul Roark's Curves were first. The piezo ink with
the
> generations cyan and magenta added to the yellow position to make
coldtones
> were second. (Very close, either one rates very good). Regular
piezo was
> third. Generations Color inks were the best color inks I tested,
but have
> not used the MIS or Piezo color inks yet. The new 1280 epson
original color
> inks withstood 2 months before I could see any change at all, even
then, it
> was the paper that turned ivory colored, and not the inks.
>
> The picture window faces South, it's about 6x8 feet in area, and
has 2 panes
> of heavy glass. I figure if the print can withstand 2 months of
sunny north
> dakota weather that they will last a long time under normal room
lighting.
> I've never had any inkset change color, or fade under normal room
light,
> except the original Stylus color 800 color printer inks of about 5
years
> ago. Those prints are toast. Totally faded, color shifted, and
worthless.
> And they've all been kept in a dark box.
>
> Humidity varies from about 35 to 60 percent depending on the time
of year.
>
> > I don't think any inkset on the market combined with any paper
will
> > actually show an image totally unchanged in 25 years. I really
don't.
> > There are far far too many variables that can affect both ink AND
paper.
> > In North Dakota we have a very low level of pollution, no ozone
pollution
> > as far as I know. We do have A Sugar refining plant and a potato
plant
> > that gives off odors that will melt the chrome off a car bumper,
so God
> > only knows what they will do to a print a few years down the line.
>
> > I have always pinned my patches to
> > foamcore and held it a couple of inches from
> > the glass and looking up older records, I
> > show much longer results then I'm getting
> > right now in this kind of quick informal
> > testing.
>
> I've never done precise testing, Just what I mention above. It is
only to
> see which inksets last the longest for a couple months before
something
> changes.
>
> I have had an original piezo print in my car's rear shelf for 1
year.
> (yesterday was the 365th day). No Fading, but it can only be called
a full
> fledged sepia toned print now. The bad thing is the paper itself
gets much
> more ivory colored than it was when printed, and this makes the
highlights
> in the print the same color as the paper is now, which makes the
print less
> than wonderful.
>
>
>
> Jerry
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 25
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 12:53:00 -0500
From: Jerry Olson <jerryolson@...>
Subject: Re: Buying Archival Matt/fading
Morning Tim. I profiled (I think) my monitor yesterday with photocal's
spyder. I have to run tests today. I am generally very happy with the
Generations inks. (Close to Epson's Gamut). I should now be able to get
closer to what I see on the monitor. (Haven't done the printer profile yet).
I need help for that, as I don't understand how to do it.
I will be trying the Piezo color inks as soon as I see Cathy Browns print
she is sending me using the piezo color inks. I'm going to print the same
image with the Generations, and we'll see which is best between those two
sets. If I get better blacks, but she gets better color gamut, I'll use the
Cone color inks with the Generations Beta black and see how that works.
Stay tuned....
So far, the Generations are the longest lasting without change of any color
inks I've tried. But haven't tried the cone piezo color inks yet...
Jerry
> Please let me know how your tests turn out on the color inks. What
> are the color gamut's like? How would you rate the color inks,gamut,
> longevity etc.? As you know I'm trying to decide on my color inks as
> the last piece of the puzzle for me. Thank you.
>
> Tim
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Nothing fancy Allen.
> >
> > My tests are only to compare one inkset with another and to see how
> long
> > each lasts before beginning to fade, shift, change color, etc. I
> use just a
> > small piece of scotch tape in the top middle of the print, so over
> time the
> > print curls a bit. I mostly just use Epson's Archival matte paper.
> I know
> > these aren't scientific tests or even close to it. I just want to
> see which
> > inksets last the longest before starting to show changes. The MIS
> Variable
> > tone inks With Paul Roark's Curves were first. The piezo ink with
> the
> > generations cyan and magenta added to the yellow position to make
> coldtones
> > were second. (Very close, either one rates very good). Regular
> piezo was
> > third. Generations Color inks were the best color inks I tested,
> but have
> > not used the MIS or Piezo color inks yet. The new 1280 epson
> original color
> > inks withstood 2 months before I could see any change at all, even
> then, it
> > was the paper that turned ivory colored, and not the inks.
> >
> > The picture window faces South, it's about 6x8 feet in area, and
> has 2 panes
> > of heavy glass. I figure if the print can withstand 2 months of
> sunny north
> > dakota weather that they will last a long time under normal room
> lighting.
> > I've never had any inkset change color, or fade under normal room
> light,
> > except the original Stylus color 800 color printer inks of about 5
> years
> > ago. Those prints are toast. Totally faded, color shifted, and
> worthless.
> > And they've all been kept in a dark box.
> >
> > Humidity varies from about 35 to 60 percent depending on the time
> of year.
> >
> > > I don't think any inkset on the market combined with any paper
> will
> > > actually show an image totally unchanged in 25 years. I really
> don't.
> > > There are far far too many variables that can affect both ink AND
> paper.
> > > In North Dakota we have a very low level of pollution, no ozone
> pollution
> > > as far as I know. We do have A Sugar refining plant and a potato
> plant
> > > that gives off odors that will melt the chrome off a car bumper,
> so God
> > > only knows what they will do to a print a few years down the line.
> >
> > > I have always pinned my patches to
> > > foamcore and held it a couple of inches from
> > > the glass and looking up older records, I
> > > show much longer results then I'm getting
> > > right now in this kind of quick informal
> > > testing.
> >
> > I've never done precise testing, Just what I mention above. It is
> only to
> > see which inksets last the longest for a couple months before
> something
> > changes.
> >
> > I have had an original piezo print in my car's rear shelf for 1
> year.
> > (yesterday was the 365th day). No Fading, but it can only be called
> a full
> > fledged sepia toned print now. The bad thing is the paper itself
> gets much
> > more ivory colored than it was when printed, and this makes the
> highlights
> > in the print the same color as the paper is now, which makes the
> print less
> > than wonderful.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
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