Digital BW, The Print

I have not had the need to calibrate my system with software such as Monaco
EZColor because my results have been quite good without it.  I am however
considering buying ImagePrint in order to get neutral B&W with my 2200.  The
Luminous Landscape web site in their review of Imageprint suggests that
using ImagePrint without first calibration ones system is a waste of money.
The way I understand the function of a RIP, it replaces the existing color
management process/drivers for the printer.
So my question is, do I really need to also spend the money for the Monaco
or equivalent software?
Mike

> From: Mike Bergen [mailto:mike@...]
>
> I have not had the need to calibrate my system with software such
> as Monaco
> EZColor because my results have been quite good without it.  I am however
> considering buying ImagePrint in order to get neutral B&W with my
> 2200.  The
> Luminous Landscape web site in their review of Imageprint suggests that
> using ImagePrint without first calibration ones system is a waste
> of money.
> The way I understand the function of a RIP, it replaces the existing color
> management process/drivers for the printer.
> So my question is, do I really need to also spend the money for the Monaco
> or equivalent software?

If you're only going to print B&W, then you have less of a need to calibrate
your monitor, since you can just ignore any color casts that the display
shows. After all, if you convert an image to grayscale, you know these color
casts are only an artifact of the display, and the RIP won't see them. The
only thing calibration will buy you is better tonal range matching, but you
can probably get quite close without anything fancier than Adobe Gamma.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Mike  -
 
I've been uning IP for a year now.  I have never used anything but the Adobe tool to set up my monitor.  I get a really good match.  I wouldn't spend any money on monitor calibration hardware/software until you determine that you actually need it to get the results you want.  If you need it, you can always orrder it and get it in a couple of days.  Better that way than stuck with something you might find you don't need.
 
Tom Baker

Mike Bergen <mike@...> wrote:
 

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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bergen"
<mike@c...> wrote:
> I have not had the need to calibrate my system with software such as
Monaco
> EZColor because my results have been quite good without it.  I am
however
> considering buying ImagePrint in order to get neutral B&W with my
2200.  The
> Luminous Landscape web site in their review of Imageprint suggests that
> using ImagePrint without first calibration ones system is a waste of
money.
> The way I understand the function of a RIP, it replaces the existing
color
> management process/drivers for the printer.
> So my question is, do I really need to also spend the money for the
Monaco
> or equivalent software?
> Mike

I used to use Adobe Gamma, then 2 years ago had an opportunity to get
PhotoCal at a giveaway price.

When I do color, AND with IP5.6, my Win2000  system 2200 printer
outputs a little greener than the Diamond pro 22 inch CRT with Adobe
PS in soft proofing mode. If I care about color, in addition to soft
proofing in Adobe with a color IP profile, I have to add a special
curve adjustment layer I saved that makes the monitor image go
greener. Part of this may be metarmerism...my viewing source may
mismatch the color viewing conditions called out for in IP. B&W IP
doesn't suffer metarmerism quite.

Strange thing is, there's really no way to soft proof in greyscale in
PS. Through the soft proof command that is. What you do is set your
greyscale space to "custom dot gain" and than fool with the curve
until your IP output matches your screen. They don't tell you this in
the IP manual- people on the IP Yahoo group figured it out. Same
technique Jon Cone told folks about way back in 2000 I recall...

I got off lucky for b&w. After Photocal gets done, I found that just
using plain old "Gamma 2.2" for my PS greyscale space matches the
monitor just fine. So I can save the embedded profile as such, and
send it to IP5.6. Otherwise I'd have to be durn sure I dropped the
custom dot gain in IP because it would mess it up. No idea if just
Adobe gamma would leave me with such a simple greyscale space to match
IP output.

Also: Don't expect the IP window to display the print properly. Ignore
it even if it looks too light, etc.

Mitch Allard has a document on the Imageprint Yahoo group that
explains matching the monitor for both color and B&W in IP and more.
It is from a MAC point of view but applies pretty much to windows too.
It is mandatory reading as it has what the manual left out wrt many
things.

Jim Hayes

On Tuesday, January 13, 2004, at 03:55  PM, jim hayes wrote:

snip...
> Strange thing is, there's really no way to soft proof in greyscale in
> PS. Through the soft proof command that is. What you do is set your
> greyscale space to "custom dot gain" and than fool with the curve
> until your IP output matches your screen. They don't tell you this in
> the IP manual- people on the IP Yahoo group figured it out. Same
> technique Jon Cone told folks about way back in 2000 I recall...


Actually, there is a way to soft-proof in grayscale (or RGB) by using 
soft-proof profiles derived from custom icc profiles created for 
whatever ink/paper/software driver or RIP that you use.  See my post 
above ("New icc based Soft-proof profiles for QTR") and the sample 
download included.

Carl

hello,

I would like to know what everyone thinks about this:

If I'm at work - corporate america and a photo comes
in and takes my pix for the corporate brochure do they
need a release from me - or since I am co. property if
they get one from the co. CEO they are covered?

thanks

J

www.redhawkphoto.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

If you are at work and you allow your pricture to be taken, it belongs 
to the company.

Truman

Janet Redhawk wrote:

> hello,
>
> I would like to know what everyone thinks about this:
>
> If I'm at work - corporate america and a photo comes
> in and takes my pix for the corporate brochure do they
> need a release from me - or since I am co. property if
> they get one from the co. CEO they are covered?
>
> thanks
>
> J
>
> www.redhawkphoto.com
>
>

Mike,

If you don't have and maintain a calibrated monitor, then how can you accurately predict what your prints will look like? What would be the need for any color management system? Get a Spyder or EyeOne Display puck--neither of which are expensive.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "Mike Bergen" <mike@...>
> Date: 2004/01/13 Tue PM 02:16:49 EST
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Need for Monitor Calibration along with Imageprint
> 
> I have not had the need to calibrate my system with software such as Monaco
> EZColor because my results have been quite good without it.  I am however
> considering buying ImagePrint in order to get neutral B&W with my 2200.  The
> Luminous Landscape web site in their review of Imageprint suggests that
> using ImagePrint without first calibration ones system is a waste of money.
> The way I understand the function of a RIP, it replaces the existing color
> management process/drivers for the printer.
> So my question is, do I really need to also spend the money for the Monaco
> or equivalent software?
> Mike

Janet Redhawk wrote:

>hello,
>
>I would like to know what everyone thinks about this:
>
>If I'm at work - corporate america and a photo comes
>in and takes my pix for the corporate brochure do they
>need a release from me - or since I am co. property if
>they get one from the co. CEO they are covered?
>  
>
In the US, UNLESS you have hitherto explicitly given them a release to 
use your name or likeness, my understanding is that they need to get a 
release..

However, such release MAY already be written into your employment contract.

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Truman Prevatt wrote:

>If you are at work and you allow your pricture to be taken, it belongs 
>to the company.
>
>  
>

Yes, the photo belongs to the company. However, they still need explicit 
release to use an image in which I am recognizable.

I'll give an example drawn from my own experience, crew on a movie set 
are often photographed, or even asked to serve as extras.  They already 
have a contract to "work-for-hire" in most cases, HOWEVER, they now must 
sign a release of use for name and likeness, for the production company 
to be able to USE that image or film.  Copyright is a necessary 
pre-condition of lawful use, but only ONE pre-condition.  In many 
instances you need a release as well.

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Thanks for all the inputs.
As for how I get away without monitor calibration, I used the Gamma tool and
it has worked great so far.  I do mostly landscapes (as opposed to flesh
tones) and they appear to match my LCD monitor quite well.  I have also read
that calibrating an LCD display is far more difficult than a CRT.
Mike

Such releases are normally in the employment "contract" for most 
companies. When I was working at Fairchild they had a staff photographer 
who was an employee to support all the advertising, product catalog and 
promotional material.  Since he was an  employee the company owned all 
copyrights, all data rights and all rights to use any photograph 
produced just the same as they owned all the pantents produced by 
inventions of their technical staff.

In general when you are an employee instead of working under a contract 
the company owns all rights to what you produce during your employment 
and to the use of you (and your likeness)  in advertising.  If you are a 
contractor - depending on the contract you can retain some of these rights.

Truman

Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:

> Truman Prevatt wrote:
>
> >If you are at work and you allow your pricture to be taken, it belongs
> >to the company.
> >
> > 
> >
>
> Yes, the photo belongs to the company. However, they still need explicit
> release to use an image in which I am recognizable.
>
> I'll give an example drawn from my own experience, crew on a movie set
> are often photographed, or even asked to serve as extras.  They already
> have a contract to "work-for-hire" in most cases, HOWEVER, they now must
> sign a release of use for name and likeness, for the production company
> to be able to USE that image or film.  Copyright is a necessary
> pre-condition of lawful use, but only ONE pre-condition.  In many
> instances you need a release as well.
>
>
> Keith Krebs
>

Hello Mike. I use Imageprint with a 2200 on a PC with windows xp pro 2000. I 
have never calibrated my system with an outside system. My first print was 
perfect and I continue to have great results with my system as is. People lok at 
my prints and always ask me what kind of system I have. As far as B&W you just 
have to make sure that all the settings are correct for Imageprint to couple 
to the computer and Photoshop. Also Imageprint has a tint system that only 
works with B&W or grey printing settings. You have to be sure that the tint is 
set at zero for neutural B&W. I set it to a slight brown and my B&W prints are 
wonderful. One thing, Imageprint is a little tricky to instal You should 
consider getting it from a reliable dealer that will help with instalation. If you 
have any questions feel free. Regards and good luck


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