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2004-01-30 by Tom Baker
Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions. http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily Tom Baker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-30 by Steven Karafyllakis
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@s...> wrote: > Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions. > > http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily > > Tom Baker > There's a whole lot of Company Hoopla there, and very little useable information; Did you happen to spot which inks the claims are good for? Steve Karafyllakis
2004-01-30 by Tom Baker
The Kodak site said that it was intended for all photo inks. However, one other area in the article said dye. So, I don't know. I didn't look hard at the details. It is apparently not targeted to a specific ink brand. One interesting thing was a comment on the Kodak site that said it was a photographic paper with the new special coating. I don't know exactly what that implies, but, if they put this coating on some of their existing paper based stock, it could be interesting. Tom Baker Steven Karafyllakis <steve@...> wrote: --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@s...> wrote: > Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions. > > http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily > > Tom Baker > There's a whole lot of Company Hoopla there, and very little useable information; Did you happen to spot which inks the claims are good for? Steve Karafyllakis Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-30 by Paul Roark
Tom, >Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to >have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions. >www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily This could be the dye breakthrough I've been expecting. I'm glad it's Kodak. (They desperately need a place in the new photo scene.) Most of the color pigments in the inkjet printers appear to be what are called "dye stacks." That is, they are dyes that have been formed into solid chunks of insoluble material, unlike the dye inks that are dissolved in a liquid base (mostly water). The only reason color pigments are more light and gas fast is that they are larger chunks of matter that present a lower ratio of surface area to mass than do the tiny crystals of dye that form on the paper as the base evaporates. The swellable emulsion was one attempt to reduce the ability to gas to get to the dye, and it was better than nothing. What I've been waiting for is a way to turn the dye into a solid chunk of material that was closer to the mass of a pigment, but only after the dye hit the paper. My thought was that an epoxy-like, 2 component system would be a good model. It sounds like Kodak may have found a solution that is close to this. The Kodak release states, "Using a unique blend of mordants (additives to "fix" the dyes) ...." The following is the best explanation of a "mordant" I found in a quick search: "A mordant is a metal with a valency of at least two. The two commonest metals used in histotechnology are aluminum and ferric iron, both with valencies of three. The attachment of mordants to dyes is by means of a covalent and a coordinate bond." (see http://members.pgonline.com/~bryand/StainsFile/theory/mordant.htm) I think Kodak has found a way to chemically lock the dyes up in, presumably, relatively large and inert particles. Now, I'm not saying Kodak isn't hyping this achievement, but their paper sounds consistent with what I've been looking for. I think Big Yellow's R&D department has just raised the bar substantially. Their test procedures also look to be very thorough. I don't think the new development will overtake carbon pigments (if -- big if -- the Epson Archival pigs are 200 years, we're over 300), but I think Epson's color pigment approach could be in trouble. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2004-01-30 by Tom Baker
Paul - Can all of this happen with dye and still preserve the color advantage dye has over pigs in terms of vibrancy, saturation, etc.? Tom Baker Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote: Tom, >Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to >have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions. >www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily This could be the dye breakthrough I've been expecting. I'm glad it's Kodak. (They desperately need a place in the new photo scene.) Most of the color pigments in the inkjet printers appear to be what are called "dye stacks." That is, they are dyes that have been formed into solid chunks of insoluble material, unlike the dye inks that are dissolved in a liquid base (mostly water). The only reason color pigments are more light and gas fast is that they are larger chunks of matter that present a lower ratio of surface area to mass than do the tiny crystals of dye that form on the paper as the base evaporates. The swellable emulsion was one attempt to reduce the ability to gas to get to the dye, and it was better than nothing. What I've been waiting for is a way to turn the dye into a solid chunk of material that was closer to the mass of a pigment, but only after the dye hit the paper. My thought was that an epoxy-like, 2 component system would be a good model. It sounds like Kodak may have found a solution that is close to this. The Kodak release states, "Using a unique blend of mordants (additives to "fix" the dyes) ...." The following is the best explanation of a "mordant" I found in a quick search: "A mordant is a metal with a valency of at least two. The two commonest metals used in histotechnology are aluminum and ferric iron, both with valencies of three. The attachment of mordants to dyes is by means of a covalent and a coordinate bond." (see http://members.pgonline.com/~bryand/StainsFile/theory/mordant.htm) I think Kodak has found a way to chemically lock the dyes up in, presumably, relatively large and inert particles. Now, I'm not saying Kodak isn't hyping this achievement, but their paper sounds consistent with what I've been looking for. I think Big Yellow's R&D department has just raised the bar substantially. Their test procedures also look to be very thorough. I don't think the new development will overtake carbon pigments (if -- big if -- the Epson Archival pigs are 200 years, we're over 300), but I think Epson's color pigment approach could be in trouble. Paul www.PaulRoark.com Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-30 by Paul Roark
Tom, >Can all of this happen with dye and still preserve the color advantage dye >has over pigs in terms of vibrancy, saturation, etc.? I don't know, but it suspect it can. All the surface artifacts of the pigments are avoided also. Look at the pains Epson is going to in the R800 order to hide the differential gloss. By their nature, the pigs are going to sit on top of the paper. Dyes can go into the emulsion while they are still liquid. Of course, what the Kodak advance can't do is give us a dye that can last on cotton paper. Perhaps this will help the "fine art" and "color glossy photos" markets diverge. This could be good. Paul www.PaulRoark.com ____________________________________ Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote: Tom, >Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to >have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions. >www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily This could be the dye breakthrough I've been expecting. I'm glad it's Kodak. (They desperately need a place in the new photo scene.) Most of the color pigments in the inkjet printers appear to be what are called "dye stacks." That is, they are dyes that have been formed into solid chunks of insoluble material, unlike the dye inks that are dissolved in a liquid base (mostly water). The only reason color pigments are more light and gas fast is that they are larger chunks of matter that present a lower ratio of surface area to mass than do the tiny crystals of dye that form on the paper as the base evaporates. The swellable emulsion was one attempt to reduce the ability to gas to get to the dye, and it was better than nothing. What I've been waiting for is a way to turn the dye into a solid chunk of material that was closer to the mass of a pigment, but only after the dye hit the paper. My thought was that an epoxy-like, 2 component system would be a good model. It sounds like Kodak may have found a solution that is close to this. The Kodak release states, "Using a unique blend of mordants (additives to "fix" the dyes) ...." The following is the best explanation of a "mordant" I found in a quick search: "A mordant is a metal with a valency of at least two. The two commonest metals used in histotechnology are aluminum and ferric iron, both with valencies of three. The attachment of mordants to dyes is by means of a covalent and a coordinate bond." (see http://members.pgonline.com/~bryand/StainsFile/theory/mordant.htm) I think Kodak has found a way to chemically lock the dyes up in, presumably, relatively large and inert particles. Now, I'm not saying Kodak isn't hyping this achievement, but their paper sounds consistent with what I've been looking for. I think Big Yellow's R&D department has just raised the bar substantially. Their test procedures also look to be very thorough. I don't think the new development will overtake carbon pigments (if -- big if -- the Epson Archival pigs are 200 years, we're over 300), but I think Epson's color pigment approach could be in trouble. Paul www.PaulRoark.com Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2004-01-30 by Roger L Sopher
Paul, Why couldn't the mordant chemistry be incorporated in the receptor layers (coating) on matte papers? Mordents are the "glue" that binds the dye to a more or less specific target molecule and if gelatin (for example) was used in the coating it could provide a site for dye binding I would think. Maybe a type N surface might be possible and we could have something more akin to darkroom prints. It would be nice to have a dye based system without the clog problems that would open up other printer systems to the fine art market. To partially answer my own question, $$$ since the demand for such a system would be limited but maybe Kodak's present financial problems might make them open to licensing their patents. Tissue slides still have a significant fading problem with time, usually some years even with dark storage. It is a particular problem when slides are exposed to strong light, but then the chemistry is not designed to be "archival" and the tissue can usually be restained. Roger
-----Original Message----- From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:18 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Kokak's latest ink jet paper Tom, >Can all of this happen with dye and still preserve the color advantage dye >has over pigs in terms of vibrancy, saturation, etc.? I don't know, but it suspect it can. All the surface artifacts of the pigments are avoided also. Look at the pains Epson is going to in the R800 order to hide the differential gloss. By their nature, the pigs are going to sit on top of the paper. Dyes can go into the emulsion while they are still liquid. Of course, what the Kodak advance can't do is give us a dye that can last on cotton paper. Perhaps this will help the "fine art" and "color glossy photos" markets diverge. This could be good. Paul www.PaulRoark.com ____________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-30 by Tom Baker
Paul - If the trick here is in the caoting, why can't the coating be put on cotton? Or, why couldn't it be put on on of the traditional wet darkroom papers instead of an emulsion? Tom Baker Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote: Tom, >Can all of this happen with dye and still preserve the color advantage dye >has over pigs in terms of vibrancy, saturation, etc.? I don't know, but it suspect it can. All the surface artifacts of the pigments are avoided also. Look at the pains Epson is going to in the R800 order to hide the differential gloss. By their nature, the pigs are going to sit on top of the paper. Dyes can go into the emulsion while they are still liquid. Of course, what the Kodak advance can't do is give us a dye that can last on cotton paper. Perhaps this will help the "fine art" and "color glossy photos" markets diverge. This could be good. Paul www.PaulRoark.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-30 by digikdm
Would have prefered to hear that they've developed a lite -jet printer for <$1000 that would print digital files on halide coated photographic paper. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@s...> wrote: > Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions.
> > http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily > > Tom Baker > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-30 by Mark Hahn
And why would you want that to happen or think it was good? I always printed b&w on glossy paper in the traditional darkroom and I only went to matte with my inkjets because that's all that I could use with pigmented inks... of course RC gloss is not quite the same as FB gloss... but still. mark ... > Of course, what the Kodak advance can't do is give us a dye that can last on > cotton paper. Perhaps this will help the "fine art" and "color glossy > photos" markets diverge. This could be good. > > Paul ...
2004-01-31 by Paul Roark
Tom & Roger, You're probably correct that the "mordant" approach might work on matte & cotton papers. I'm not sure how much it would add there. With matte paper and pigs there are no reflective artifacts to deal with, and the glossy v. matte dmax difference is mostly a question of how the light is reflected. I think the big market is glossy color. Kodak also noted the "refrigerator door" use of photos. That's one of the places I test also. My interest in the sprayed RC papers was for a display that didn't need glass. I suspect the fine art bunch will not be interested in this approach, however. Matte under glass may still be the ticket there. All very interesting. Technology marches on. Paul www.PaulRoark.com _________________
-----Original Message----- From: Roger L Sopher [mailto:rlsopher@...] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 12:48 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Kodak's latest ink jet paper Paul, Why couldn't the mordant chemistry be incorporated in the receptor layers (coating) on matte papers? Mordents are the "glue" that binds the dye to a more or less specific target molecule and if gelatin (for example) was used in the coating it could provide a site for dye binding I would think. Maybe a type N surface might be possible and we could have something more akin to darkroom prints. It would be nice to have a dye based system without the clog problems that would open up other printer systems to the fine art market. To partially answer my own question, $$$ since the demand for such a system would be limited but maybe Kodak's present financial problems might make them open to licensing their patents. Tissue slides still have a significant fading problem with time, usually some years even with dark storage. It is a particular problem when slides are exposed to strong light, but then the chemistry is not designed to be "archival" and the tissue can usually be restained. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:18 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Kokak's latest ink jet paper Tom, >Can all of this happen with dye and still preserve the color advantage dye >has over pigs in terms of vibrancy, saturation, etc.? I don't know, but it suspect it can. All the surface artifacts of the pigments are avoided also. Look at the pains Epson is going to in the R800 order to hide the differential gloss. By their nature, the pigs are going to sit on top of the paper. Dyes can go into the emulsion while they are still liquid. Of course, what the Kodak advance can't do is give us a dye that can last on cotton paper. Perhaps this will help the "fine art" and "color glossy photos" markets diverge. This could be good. Paul www.PaulRoark.com ____________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2004-01-31 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Read the suggested settings for the 2200 in their info.. Print at 720 dpi etc.... aggghh It seems not to like pigment inks of with any significant load. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2004-01-31 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
There are some very illuminating posts (vis pigment/dye mordants, etc.) by Arthur Entlich and Walt Mucha on this Kodak paper over in my EPSON printer group. I don't wish to crosspost a ton of data so, if interested, just head there and search the message archive for "Kodak Entlich" to get started. The address/URL for the list is in my signature. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2004-01-31 by Ed Mathews
I feel the same way. I've been rooting for them for some time. They NEED something like this and I really hope they have something here that will boost them into the digital arena as a major player. Obviously, they had this up their sleeve when they released that last statement and I'm sure they are banking on this. I hope they have patented this to the hilt and have many years of profit from it. Let's not forget where the Bayer pattern came from. Their contributions to photography in general, both film and digital have been sorely trampled upon. Ed http://lightandsilver.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] <snip> > This could be the dye breakthrough I've been expecting. I'm glad it's > Kodak. (They desperately need a place in the new photo scene.) <snip>
2004-01-31 by Truman Prevatt
Don't shed too many tears for poor old Kodak. They have enough defense work to keep them busy for years. They have slipped in the consumer sector, just because I think they have put too much of their talent supporting their defense sector. Hopefully they will get back to a proper balance. Truman Ed Mathews wrote:
> I feel the same way. I've been rooting for them for some time. They > NEED something like this and I really hope they have something here that > will boost them into the digital arena as a major player. Obviously, > they had this up their sleeve when they released that last statement and > I'm sure they are banking on this. I hope they have patented this to > the hilt and have many years of profit from it. Let's not forget where > the Bayer pattern came from. Their contributions to photography in > general, both film and digital have been sorely trampled upon. > > Ed > http://lightandsilver.com >
2004-01-31 by Ed Mathews
> -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] > All very interesting. Technology marches on. I wonder if today's digital will enjoy the same relatively long toothed approach as chemical processes have thus far to our perspective. And will our children and grandchildren ever stop and think about the rapid changes we went through as photographers, and how our thoughts, problems, complaints, needs, and voices helped set the direction for development of the technology they will take for granted on a daily basis? I hope history is kind to us all, and the pioneers of today, like Paul Roark, are not forgotten when the world of zeros and ones seem to have always existed. Ed http://lightandsilver.com
2004-01-31 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Ed Mathews wrote: > > I hope history is kind to us all, and the pioneers of today, >like Paul Roark, are not forgotten when the world of zeros and ones seem >to have always existed. > > > Speaking of which the inventor of "Ctrl-Alt-Delete" just retired from IBM. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2004-01-31 by sceptre12345
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote: > This could be the dye breakthrough I've been expecting. According to Arthur Entlich who posted on another group says that he's read Kodak's white paper on Ultima paper, it seems that: "Fading up to 30% loss of density is considered acceptable." Not to me it isn't. Not anymore. Not since the UT inksets have been available. Cheers, Andre
2004-01-31 by Tom Baker
Let's hope that was the old Ultima paper, not the new. Tom Baker sceptre12345 <am1000@...> wrote: --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote: > This could be the dye breakthrough I've been expecting. According to Arthur Entlich who posted on another group says that he's read Kodak's white paper on Ultima paper, it seems that: "Fading up to 30% loss of density is considered acceptable." Not to me it isn't. Not anymore. Not since the UT inksets have been available. Cheers, Andre Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-31 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
What really scares me is the idea of 100+ year Lexmark output.. As I've said elsewhere, that's like preserving SPAM (the original "meaty" kind), SnowBalls (the pink sponge cake kind), Twinkies, Vienna Sausage, or a Moonpie for 100 years. Sure, you might be ABLE to do it.. But for GOD's sake, WHY man, WHY would anyone WANT to?! Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2004-01-31 by sceptre12345
Yes, he was talking about the new Kodak Ultima paper! Message #22451 @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ Cheers, Andre --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@s...> wrote: > Let's hope that was the old Ultima paper, not the new. > > Tom Baker > > sceptre12345 <am1000@v...> wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" > <paul.roark@v...> wrote: > > This could be the dye breakthrough I've been expecting. > > According to Arthur Entlich who posted on another group says that > he's read Kodak's white paper on Ultima paper, it seems that: > > "Fading up to 30% loss of density is considered acceptable." > > Not to me it isn't. Not anymore. Not since the UT inksets have been > available. > > Cheers, > Andre > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-31 by Truman Prevatt
How many people know that it was John VonNeumann who was the designer of the modern high speed electronic computer? Sadly to say the true pioneers are many times forgotten. Truman Ed Mathews wrote: > > basis? I hope history is kind to us all, and the pioneers of today, > like Paul Roark, are not forgotten when the world of zeros and ones seem > to have always existed. > > Ed > <http://lightandsilver.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-01-31 by Ernst Dinkla
>All very interesting. Technology marches on.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
_________________<
The technical publications on the Kodak site are interesting.
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=36/98&pq-locale=en_US
at the bottom of that page two links:
Technology behind new Ultima paper 506 K
Typical home display conditions 414 K
Not a word about Wilhelm-Research. This time they
want to improve on his tests.
Ernst2004-02-01 by Tom Baker
Maybe. But, remember, if you happen to have some of the old "Cracker Jacks" toys from the '50's they're worth some money. You can never tell what someone will think is useful. On the more serious side though, some have said that family 'shapshots' are the only 'real' photographs. At the very least they preserve memories, and in some cases serious bits of history. I think preserving these is worthwhile, even if printed on a dot matrix. Not as elegant as a fine art print of the same subject, but still worthwhile. Tom Baker "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...> wrote: What really scares me is the idea of 100+ year Lexmark output.. As I've said elsewhere, that's like preserving SPAM (the original "meaty" kind), SnowBalls (the pink sponge cake kind), Twinkies, Vienna Sausage, or a Moonpie for 100 years. Sure, you might be ABLE to do it.. But for GOD's sake, WHY man, WHY would anyone WANT to?! Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys" Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-02-02 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
Tom Baker wrote: >Here's a link to an article on Kodak's newest paper which they claim to have 100 year life under 'home' display conditions. > >http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/20794.html?cprose=daily > > > Just figured people would like to know that according to Kodak's standards fading up to 30% loss of density is considered acceptable. Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"