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2004-02-10 by Jean-Marc Humbert
Could we expect in a next future that the Epson R800 (or a printer of the same family with larger outputs) could replace the Epson 2200/2100 for B&W prints (associated to dedicated RIP like ImagePrint)? I understand that the new Epson R800 is fully able to print on gloss papers but that unlike the Epson 2200/2100 there is no gray cartbridge. JM Humbert Paris, France
2004-02-10 by Paul D. DeRocco
> From: Jean-Marc Humbert [mailto:humbertjm@...] > > Could we expect in a next future that the Epson R800 (or a printer of > the same family with larger outputs) could replace the Epson > 2200/2100 for B&W prints (associated to dedicated RIP like > ImagePrint)? > > I understand that the new Epson R800 is fully able to print on gloss > papers but that unlike the Epson 2200/2100 there is no gray > cartbridge. With a 1.5pl drop size, there's probably little need for light black, or light anything. And that avoids problems calibrating the transitions between the light and dark inks. Of course, if you drive it with a RIP, you can in theory put any colors you want in any position, including C, M, Y, four shades of black, and the overcoating. I expect someone will do exactly that in time. I'm a little surprised that Epson hasn't generalized their ink assignments, allowing a choice of different combinations of colors to be put into the head positions. The only place they do something like this is in the 4000, where you can put in dual CMYK for printing graphics at double speed, which for me is a snoozer. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco@...
2004-02-10 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service
I'd say that's a big MAYBE. The new UC HG inks reportedly still have metamerism issues comparable to those of the 2100/2200.. I'd bet on a new 13x19 format printer with a new set of inks next year... Keith Krebs "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo Publications), at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/ and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys"
2004-02-16 by Martin Sluka
At 12:41 -0500 10.2.2004, Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote: ******************************************* >I'd say that's a big MAYBE. > >The new UC HG inks reportedly still have metamerism issues comparable to >those of the 2100/2200.. I have seen the R800 of PaperWorld in Frankfurt (Germany) two weeks ago. They printed from the same color file Epson's sample picture (the owl) the color and BW print outs simply by check the Grayscale in driver setup. There was horrible light conditions - from small pinkish halogens to daylight. My BW sample from 2100 printed by IP5.6 - deadly neutral under normal light - was pink in light areas there. The BW printouts from R800 were 99,5 % without ANY metamerism. Printed from colors too, as I checked by loupe. The color check print on Hahnemuehle PhotoRag - the standard Fuji RGB test - was amazing - neutral grey wedges, very bright blues without any purple posterisation, very bright reds with many details in saturated areas too. Interesting was compare light areas of BW printouts from 9600 (IP5.6) and R800 (Epson driver). Both printed from color inks too, but the size of drops for R800 is much more smaller than one expected and with much more regular shape and distribution. Martin --
2004-02-16 by Ernst Dinkla
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Sluka" <martinsluka@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson R800 as successor of the 2200/2100 for B&W? At 12:41 -0500 10.2.2004, Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote: ******************************************* >I'd say that's a big MAYBE. > >The new UC HG inks reportedly still have metamerism issues comparable to >those of the 2100/2200.. I have seen the R800 of PaperWorld in Frankfurt (Germany) two weeks ago. They printed from the same color file Epson's sample picture (the owl) the color and BW print outs simply by check the Grayscale in driver setup. There was horrible light conditions - from small pinkish halogens to daylight. My BW sample from 2100 printed by IP5.6 - deadly neutral under normal light - was pink in light areas there. The BW printouts from R800 were 99,5 % without ANY metamerism. Printed from colors too, as I checked by loupe. The color check print on Hahnemuehle PhotoRag - the standard Fuji RGB test - was amazing - neutral grey wedges, very bright blues without any purple posterisation, very bright reds with many details in saturated areas too. Interesting was compare light areas of BW printouts from 9600 (IP5.6) and R800 (Epson driver). Both printed from color inks too, but the size of drops for R800 is much more smaller than one expected and with much more regular shape and distribution. Martin -- Martin, With a droplet size of 1.5 picoliter the black generation can go very far if not to 0%. Expecting that the black is Ultrachrome warm there's blue needed to get it neutral. That blue doesn't have to be Cyan + Magenta on the R800 but just the Blue ink. Any sign of the dominance of black + blue in that B&W print ? I still wonder whether it will be easy to make custom profiles for that printer. An "RGB" printer profile for the Epson driver will be alright, "CMYK" based RIPs will not get the best possible from the R800. N-colour RIPs + profile creators are needed for that task. Ernst
2004-02-17 by edrudolpho
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Martin Sluka <martinsluka@m...> wrote: > They printed from the same color file Epson's sample picture (the > owl) the color and BW print outs simply by check the Grayscale in > driver setup.> Martin, I have just installed the epson software here, in the U>S>, and there is no grayscale option. there is, however, a Black option. Choosing that, I seem to be printing in Color, just as if I'd selected Color. Ed, in San Francisco
2004-02-17 by Martin Sluka
At 06:59 +0000 17.2.2004, edrudolpho wrote: ******************************************* >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Martin Sluka ><martinsluka@m...> wrote: >> They printed from the same color file Epson's sample picture (the >> owl) the color and BW print outs simply by check the Grayscale in >> driver setup.> > > >Martin, I have just installed the epson software here, in the U>S>, >and there is no >grayscale option. there is, however, a Black option. Choosing >that, I seem to be >printing in Color, just as if I'd selected Color. > >Ed, in San Francisco I'm sorry, that was prerelease version runnng under WXP. This option was somewhere in advanced setups. Martin --
2004-02-17 by Steve Kale
Hi There are a few of us trying to determine whether BO is possible with this printer. Are you sure that you seem to be printing in colour? With the Epson 2100 printer driver here in the UK the Black Only option is simply marked as Black. Can you test for us the following workflow: a greyscale image in Grey Gamma 2.2, Same as Source in PS print pane, Black in Epson driver.... Thanks Steve
From: "edrudolpho" <erudolph@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:59:17 -0000 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson R800 as successor of the 2200/2100 for B&W? --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Martin Sluka <martinsluka@m...> wrote: > They printed from the same color file Epson's sample picture (the > owl) the color and BW print outs simply by check the Grayscale in > driver setup.> Martin, I have just installed the epson software here, in the U>S>, and there is no grayscale option. there is, however, a Black option. Choosing that, I seem to be printing in Color, just as if I'd selected Color. Ed, in San Francisco Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns ubscribe> * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-02-17 by edrudolpho
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > Hi > > There are a few of us trying to determine whether BO is possible with this > printer. Are you sure that you seem to be printing in colour? With the > Epson 2100 printer driver here in the UK the Black Only option is simply > marked as Black. Can you test for us the following workflow: a greyscale > image in Grey Gamma 2.2, Same as Source in PS print pane, Black in Epson > driver.... > Thanks > Steve Hi Steve... I am a newbie to this BO printing but it appears to me that using the above workflow, the R800 is printing in color. Ed
2004-02-17 by edrudolpho
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho" <erudolph@p...> wrote: > > Hi Steve... I am a newbie to this BO printing but it appears to me that using the above > workflow, the R800 is printing in color. > > Ed P.S. ....I am using a Macintosh with OS X.
2004-02-17 by Steve Kale
Ed, thanks. What is it that makes you think it is printing in colour? For example, if I select Black in the 2100 driver under Print Settings -> Ink and then go to Colour Management, Colour Control is selected but Colour Sync and No Colour Adjustment are greyed out. This is still black ink only printing. Steve
From: "edrudolpho" <erudolph@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:59:58 -0000 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson R800 as successor of the 2200/2100 for B&W? --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho" <erudolph@p...> wrote: > > Hi Steve... I am a newbie to this BO printing but it appears to me that using the above > workflow, the R800 is printing in color. > > Ed P.S. ....I am using a Macintosh with OS X. Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12ceqj8gg/M=274551.4550177.5718621.1261774/D=egroup web/S=1705019182:HM/EXP=1077105604/A=1994230/R=2/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/ jump/N3349.yahoo1/B1282054.22;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;code=18634;dcopt= rcl;ord=1077019204870237?> Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns ubscribe> * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-02-17 by Carl Schofield
Ed, Could you tell us what paper and driver settings you used? Also, how did you determine that the R800 was printing in color? Both the photo K and matte K inks are quite warm in tone, so a warm brown print tone does not necessarily mean that color inks were used. Carl
On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 06:59 AM, edrudolpho wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho" > <erudolph@p...> wrote: > >> >> Hi Steve... I am a newbie to this BO printing but it appears to me >> that using the > above >> workflow, the R800 is printing in color. >> >> Ed > > P.S. ....I am using a Macintosh with OS X.
2004-02-17 by edrudolpho
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > Ed, thanks. What is it that makes you think it is printing in colour? For > example, if I select Black in the 2100 driver under Print Settings -> Ink > and then go to Colour Management, Colour Control is selected but Colour Sync > and No Colour Adjustment are greyed out. This is still black ink only > printing. > > Steve Hi Steve. It's early morning here and there is some daylight. I believe the R800 is printing in color when black printing is selected because the prints have a cast that changes depending on the temperature of the light. Also because on a 21 step gray scale print, the midtones have a different cast than the highlight and the shadow chips. And when examined through a loupe, the chips do appear to be composed of different color dots. Ed
2004-02-17 by edrudolpho
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> wrote: > Ed, > > Could you tell us what paper and driver settings you used? Also, how > did you determine that the R800 was printing in color? Both the photo > K and matte K inks are quite warm in tone, so a warm brown print tone > does not necessarily mean that color inks were used. > > Carl Hi Carl.... as I said in an earlier post, I'm pretty new to digital printing, color management, etc. And so I can't really participate int he discussion at the level you have been having it on this forum. But.... here are your answers: 1. Papers used were Epson Premium Glossy and a couple of prints on Epson Enhanced Matte. 2. I tried various settings. At first I simply tried printing in color using the profiles supplied with the printer. I selected the correct paper profile in proof setup. In the printer driver the source profile was the same as that selected in the proof setup and no color management was selected. When I saw that these prints did not appear neutral I repeated everything as before except selected Black instead of Color. When this is done, as Steve Kale mentioned, "No Color Management" is not an option. 3. Finally, after reading steve's post last night, I printed a 21 step file that I downloaded. This was done using the BO workflow specified by Seve, i.e, Assign Profile Gray Gamma 2.1, in the Print Preview select "Same as Source," and then in Printer driver select Black. hope this helps and that soon we can be printing black only with this printer :-) ed
2004-02-17 by Martin Sluka
At 09:16 -0500 17.2.2004, Carl Schofield wrote: ******************************************* >Could you tell us what paper and driver settings you used? Also, how >did you determine that the R800 was printing in color? Both the photo >K and matte K inks are quite warm in tone, so a warm brown print tone >does not necessarily mean that color inks were used. Carl, if you see with help of loupe cyan, blue, red, yellow dots, it is quite difficult imagine they come from only black ink. I may scan the sample I have and send it to. Martin --
2004-02-17 by Carl Schofield
Ed, Sounds like you have the correct settings for BO in point 3, but strange that the printer is using the color inks. In the print settings where you selected black for ink type did you also click an "Advanced" button to select print resolution setting and what did you choose? Also, after moving to the color management tab what were the options? On the 2200 the only choice is "Vivid" if black ink has been selected. Carl
On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 10:47 AM, edrudolpho wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield > <scho@m...> > wrote: >> Ed, >> >> Could you tell us what paper and driver settings you used? Also, how >> did you determine that the R800 was printing in color? Both the photo >> K and matte K inks are quite warm in tone, so a warm brown print tone >> does not necessarily mean that color inks were used. >> >> Carl > > Hi Carl.... as I said in an earlier post, I'm pretty new to digital > printing, color > management, etc. And so I can't really participate int he discussion > at the level you > have been having it on this forum. But.... here are your answers: > > 1. Papers used were Epson Premium Glossy and a couple of prints on > Epson Enhanced > Matte. > > 2. I tried various settings. At first I simply tried printing in > color using the profiles > supplied with the printer. I selected the correct paper profile in > proof setup. In the > printer driver the source profile was the same as that selected in the > proof setup and > no color management was selected. When I saw that these prints did > not appear > neutral I repeated everything as before except selected Black instead > of Color. When > this is done, as Steve Kale mentioned, "No Color Management" is not an > option. > > 3. Finally, after reading steve's post last night, I printed a 21 > step file that I > downloaded. This was done using the BO workflow specified by Seve, > i.e, Assign > Profile Gray Gamma 2.1, in the Print Preview select "Same as Source," > and then in > Printer driver select Black. > > hope this helps and that soon we can be printing black only with this > printer :-) > ed
2004-02-17 by edrudolpho
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> wrote: > Ed, > > Sounds like you have the correct settings for BO in point 3, but > strange that the printer is using the color inks. In the print > settings where you selected black for ink type did you also click an > "Advanced" button to select print resolution setting and what did you > choose? Also, after moving to the color management tab what were the > options? On the 2200 the only choice is "Vivid" if black ink has been > selected. > > Carl tonight, at home, i'll try to make a screen capture of the printer driver and tonight i will also make a BO print and scan it. i don't have a scanner at home (where the R800 is) so this may take me a couple of days between shuttling back and forth from home to work. can someone direct me to instructions for uploading images to the group? ed
2004-02-17 by sanfo2003
I found a trick that works in trying to figure out what color inks a printer is using for BW output is to peek inside the printer while it's printing and look at the output as the head is laying down the ink. It usually takes several passes of the head to build up full density so after the first couple of passes you can see what's going on before the ink buildup obscures it. Another technique is to abort the print job half way thru the job then look at the ink buildup zone with a loupe.
2004-02-19 by sanfo2003
Was down at the local CompUSA where they were just putting out their first demo R800. Really nice folks there and they gave me total access to the printer thru a Mac and even gave me a stack of Epson Premium Glossy and Enhanced Matte paper and said, "Tell us what you think when you're done." The lighting in the store was awful, seemed like mercury vapor lights or something, but fortunately is was daylight outside and they said to feel free to take prints outside the store to check out -- obviously this place is gonna get my business! The color prints with the glossy clearcoat, in my opinion, were nothing short of stunning and set a new standard; but it was BW I was most interested in. To summarize BW: not as good as meticulus techniques with third party quad inksets but light years ahead of anything out of the box by Epson yet. It seems Epson has finally not totally ignored BW in a printer. The glossy coating on Premium Glossy using "Black" printing gives a cool-toned print and looks very similar to conventional 8x10 glossy celebrity publicity photos I've seen. Metamerism between the awful store lighting and daylight was noticable but just barely. Colored inks are definitely used to print BW and I could see at least Cyan and Magenta being used as the ink was being laid down. Prints on EAM were smooth and cool-neutral. Also no cartridge change from glossy to matte -- nice! As a side note, I'd love to see someone do a shootout with ImagePrint on the 2200 vs. the R800's stock BW output. The retail price was $400. If this same machine could print 13x19 I would have bought it in a heartbeat. It blows the 2200 out of the water so I guess that's why its not made in the larger size, YET.
2004-02-19 by Martin Sluka
At 06:34 +0000 19.2.2004, sanfo2003 wrote: ******************************************* >I'd >love to see someone do a shootout with ImagePrint on the 2200 vs. the >R800's stock BW output. Exatly this I did on PaperWorld (Frankfurt) February 3th. See archive from this Monday. I'll scan both pictures and send it to file section. Martin --
2004-02-19 by Carl Schofield
When you made the B&W prints with the R800 did you set the driver for black only printing? An earlier post by Ed also indicated that the driver does not behave as expected - that is it uses color inks even though black ink only is specified. I wonder if this is intentional on Epson's part or if there is a problem with the current version of the printer driver.
On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:34 AM, sanfo2003 wrote: > Was down at the local CompUSA where they were just putting out their > first demo R800. Really nice folks there and they gave me total > access to the printer thru a Mac and even gave me a stack of Epson > Premium Glossy and Enhanced Matte paper and said, "Tell us what you > think when you're done." The lighting in the store was awful, seemed > like mercury vapor lights or something, but fortunately is was > daylight outside and they said to feel free to take prints outside > the store to check out -- obviously this place is gonna get my > business! > > The color prints with the glossy clearcoat, in my opinion, were > nothing short of stunning and set a new standard; but it was BW I was > most interested in. To summarize BW: not as good as meticulus > techniques with third party quad inksets but light years ahead of > anything out of the box by Epson yet. It seems Epson has finally not > totally ignored BW in a printer. The glossy coating on Premium Glossy > using "Black" printing gives a cool-toned print and looks very > similar to conventional 8x10 glossy celebrity publicity photos I've > seen. Metamerism between the awful store lighting and daylight was > noticable but just barely. Colored inks are definitely used to print > BW and I could see at least Cyan and Magenta being used as the ink > was being laid down. Prints on EAM were smooth and cool-neutral. Also > no cartridge change from glossy to matte -- nice! As a side note, I'd > love to see someone do a shootout with ImagePrint on the 2200 vs. the > R800's stock BW output. > > The retail price was $400. If this same machine could print 13x19 I > would have bought it in a heartbeat. It blows the 2200 out of the > water so I guess that's why its not made in the larger size, YET.
2004-02-19 by Richard Sintchak
Wednesday, February 18, 2004, 10:34:59 PM, you wrote: s> It blows the 2200 out of the s> water.... Sorry for being skeptical but that comment seems fantastic. Could you elaborate? How so? -- Best regards, Richard mailto:richard@...
2004-02-19 by edrudolpho
I very much like Sandy Cornelius' description of the "Black Only" printing on EPG as looking like a celebrity head shot. That's a very accurate description. On Enhanced Matte it looks somewhat like a sepia toned older print. I mentioned in an earlier post that the first dozen or so prints I made were made with grayscale images, using the supplied Epson profiles, in Color mode. The next dozen or so were made in Black mode. After checking the ink use this morning, I find that the only cartridges showing any depletion are the Gloss, Magenta and Cyan cartridges. A couple of other notes: a poster on the Epson R800 forum at photo-i.co.uk has written that his ink use display, on the black catridges suddenly went from none used to quite a bit used. And, Carl Schofield sent a link to a new R800 driver this morning. I find that it adds capabilities for different types of paper use but doesn't change the Black mode to one that uses only Black ink. And, the ink that gets the most use when printing glossy, in my case, is the Gloss Optimizer. This is because I tend to have from a 1/2 to 1" white border or more on glossy prints. The Optimizer is laid down wherever there is blank paper. On the whole, I like this printer quite a bit and look forward to driver updates and a wider format version.... :-) Ed
2004-02-19 by sanfo2003
> When you made the B&W prints with the R800 did you set the driver for black only printing? The driver window allows two options, "Black" or "Color", if I remember right. I selected "Black". I don't think it said "Black Only." Also, at least on the demo machine I used, there was no noticable sepia tone on EAM -- it was smooth and neutral with a slight leaning to the cool side. I wasn't able to print a gradient/step-wedge, but that would be the next thing to do in checking out the printer.
2004-02-19 by Carl Schofield
It sure sounds like Epson is doing something different with this R800 driver (compared to the 2200) when black ink is specified in the driver setting. It would be very interesting to see a high resolution scan of a step wedge printed with the driver set to "Black" ink.
On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:54 PM, sanfo2003 wrote: > >> When you made the B&W prints with the R800 did you set the driver > for black only printing? > > The driver window allows two options, "Black" or "Color", if I > remember right. I selected "Black". I don't think it said "Black > Only." Also, at least on the demo machine I used, there was no > noticable sepia tone on EAM -- it was smooth and neutral with a > slight leaning to the cool side. I wasn't able to print a > gradient/step-wedge, but that would be the next thing to do in > checking out the printer.
2004-02-19 by Steve Kale
FYI the driver for the 2100 simply says Black and yet is black ink only. Would seem odd that Epson would discard this ability with a much improved droplet size.
From: "sanfo2003" <SandyCornelius@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:54:46 -0000 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson R800 as successor of the 2200/2100 for B&W? > When you made the B&W prints with the R800 did you set the driver for black only printing? The driver window allows two options, "Black" or "Color", if I remember right. I selected "Black". I don't think it said "Black Only." Also, at least on the demo machine I used, there was no noticable sepia tone on EAM -- it was smooth and neutral with a slight leaning to the cool side. I wasn't able to print a gradient/step-wedge, but that would be the next thing to do in checking out the printer. Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns ubscribe> * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-02-19 by sanfo2003
"The R800 blows the 2200 out of the water..." > Sorry for being skeptical but that comment seems fantastic. Could you elaborate? How so? Well of course I must hedge by stating that this is my opinion. The gamut of blues is extended over that of my 2200. The dither pattern, dot size and resolution is finer, and not having to change out photo/matte black cartridges, at least for me, is a big deal. I have to do that a lot on my 2200 and not only is it kind of a hassle but I think its costing me about a buck in ink every time I do it (granted, nothing compared to the $100 a pop in ink it costs in the 7600). Also, the R800 prints faster than my 2200 and can print on a CD whereas the 2200 is not capable of that. Out of the box the 2200 is unusable for BW printing due to color casts and metamerism, whereas the R800 prints BW very, very well. And last but not least, my 2200 is unusable for printing on glossy paper due to bronzing (PrintGuard will work on semigloss but its an extra step, smelly, and a hassle); but the R800 with its no hassle clear coating really shines (pardon the expression) in this regard -- the glossy prints are just beautiful. The one big (again, pardon the expression) advantage the 2200 has over the R800 is that it can print at SuperA3 (13x19) size. So, that's why I say except for the size the R800 is a much better printer than my 2200.
2004-02-19 by Mark Hahn
did you compare it to the hp 7660? I would rather go with Epson after seeing the problems with the 7660, but only if I could really get "gallery quality" prints out of it. I think you could get gallery prints from the 7660 once everything was working properly, though I don't think it would be possible to display hp Premium Plus Glossy without mounting (due to the awful cockling issue). thanks, mark ... > It blows the 2200 out of the > > water ...
2004-02-19 by Steve Kale
Just as an fyi, the 2100 can print on CDs. I¹m surprised the 2200 (same printer) can¹t.... Here¹s hoping the 4000 gets remodelled as a large R800.
From: "sanfo2003" <SandyCornelius@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:59:00 -0000 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson R800 as successor of the 2200/2100 for B&W? "The R800 blows the 2200 out of the water..." > Sorry for being skeptical but that comment seems fantastic. Could you elaborate? How so? Well of course I must hedge by stating that this is my opinion. The gamut of blues is extended over that of my 2200. The dither pattern, dot size and resolution is finer, and not having to change out photo/matte black cartridges, at least for me, is a big deal. I have to do that a lot on my 2200 and not only is it kind of a hassle but I think its costing me about a buck in ink every time I do it (granted, nothing compared to the $100 a pop in ink it costs in the 7600). Also, the R800 prints faster than my 2200 and can print on a CD whereas the 2200 is not capable of that. Out of the box the 2200 is unusable for BW printing due to color casts and metamerism, whereas the R800 prints BW very, very well. And last but not least, my 2200 is unusable for printing on glossy paper due to bronzing (PrintGuard will work on semigloss but its an extra step, smelly, and a hassle); but the R800 with its no hassle clear coating really shines (pardon the expression) in this regard -- the glossy prints are just beautiful. The one big (again, pardon the expression) advantage the 2200 has over the R800 is that it can print at SuperA3 (13x19) size. So, that's why I say except for the size the R800 is a much better printer than my 2200. Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12choc15j/M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D=egroup web/S=1705019182:HM/EXP=1077307174/A=2019528/R=2/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/ jump/N3349.yahoo1/B1282054.27;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;code=18634;dcopt= rcl;ord=1077220774539074?> Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns ubscribe> * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-02-20 by PhotoWorkshops Partnership
On 19/2/04 11:19 pm, "sanfo2003" <SandyCornelius@...>" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > Also, the R800 prints faster than my 2200 and can print on > a CD whereas the 2200 is not capable of that. Sandy The 2100 (UK/Euro equivalent of the 2200) is supplied with a front loading CD feeder and a blank inkjet printable CD-RW as part of the package. Are you saying you don't get this accessory in the US? -- Regards David Prakel Centre of Britain PhotoWorkshops Partnership www.photopartners.co.uk
2004-02-20 by edrudolpho
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Martin Sluka <martinsluka@m...> wrote: > At 06:34 +0000 19.2.2004, sanfo2003 wrote: > ******************************************* > > >I'd > >love to see someone do a shootout with ImagePrint on the 2200 vs. the > >R800's stock BW output. > > Exatly this I did on PaperWorld (Frankfurt) February 3th. See archive > from this Monday. > > I'll scan both pictures and send it to file section. > > Martin > Hi all.... I made a high magnification scan of the 21 step gray scale chart. Magnified a 1" x 2" section up to about 2 feet by 4 foot section. It's full of colored dots. :-) although appearing reasonably neutral when viewed at normal scale. Unfortunately I am at work and the scanner today was moved to a computer that's not on the network. So, you'll have to take my word for it for the moment. Ed Rudolph
2004-02-20 by sanfo2003
> The 2100 (UK/Euro equivalent of the 2200) is supplied with a front loading CD feeder and a blank inkjet printable CD-RW as part of the package. Are you saying you don't get this accessory in the US? No, its not included with the 2200, at least when I got mine a little over a year ago. Oops, I'm starting to get a little off thread here -- feel free to email me offlist and perhaps I can give more info. on the 2200. Thanks.
2004-02-20 by Carl Schofield
Ed, What color dots did you see? Were they just cyan, magenta, and LK or also yellow? Carl
On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 03:26 PM, edrudolpho wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Martin > Sluka <martinsluka@m...> wrote: >> At 06:34 +0000 19.2.2004, sanfo2003 wrote: >> ******************************************* >> >>> I'd >>> love to see someone do a shootout with ImagePrint on the > 2200 vs. the >>> R800's stock BW output. >> >> Exatly this I did on PaperWorld (Frankfurt) February 3th. See > archive >> from this Monday. >> >> I'll scan both pictures and send it to file section. >> >> Martin >> > > Hi all.... I made a high magnification scan of the 21 step gray > scale chart. Magnified a 1" x 2" section up to about 2 feet by 4 > foot section. It's full of colored dots. :-) although appearing > reasonably neutral when viewed at normal scale. Unfortunately I > am at work and the scanner today was moved to a computer > that's not on the network. So, you'll have to take my word for it for > the moment. > > Ed Rudolph > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & > Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from > the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group > Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the > Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” > AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >
2004-02-21 by edrudolpho
I'll have to check that file on Monday, Carl. I was expecting to see Cyan & Magenta and was surprised to see more, but that was probably blue and green. Ed --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> wrote: > Ed, > > What color dots did you see? Were they just cyan, magenta, and LK or > also yellow? > > Carl > On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 03:26 PM, edrudolpho wrote: > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Martin > > Sluka <martinsluka@m...> wrote: > >> At 06:34 +0000 19.2.2004, sanfo2003 wrote: > >> ******************************************* > >> > >>> I'd > >>> love to see someone do a shootout with ImagePrint on the > > 2200 vs. the > >>> R800's stock BW output. > >> > >> Exatly this I did on PaperWorld (Frankfurt) February 3th. See > > archive > >> from this Monday. > >> > >> I'll scan both pictures and send it to file section. > >> > >> Martin > >> > > > > Hi all.... I made a high magnification scan of the 21 step gray > > scale chart. Magnified a 1" x 2" section up to about 2 feet by 4 > > foot section. It's full of colored dots. :-) although appearing > > reasonably neutral when viewed at normal scale. Unfortunately I > > am at work and the scanner today was moved to a computer > > that's not on the network. So, you'll have to take my word for it for > > the moment. > > > > Ed Rudolph > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~--> > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark > > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & > > Canada. > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ~-> > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > > resources as they are often being updated. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > > this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > > keep them short. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from > > the membership without notice. > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > > removed from the membership. > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group > > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the > > Files section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER"
> > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE > > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE > > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, > > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF > > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD > > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >
2004-02-21 by Martin Sluka
At 18:54 +0000 19.2.2004, sanfo2003 wrote: ******************************************* >The driver window allows two options, "Black" or "Color", if I >remember right. That is standard Epson switch. But Grayscale option I saw was in Advanced area - in part where one may choose the Glossy finisher use and others. Martin --